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Message |
    
The Notorious S.L.K.
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1423
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 9:04 pm: | 
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Although my family has only been here for year, this is what I have gathered on this subject so far, at least for the Hilton Section.
Before the Midtown Direct (MTD) you couldn't give a house away in Maplewood, regardless of what section. Once the MTD came, house prices steadily increased but the Hilton section lagged behind. In fact, from what I was told, the spark never caught and Hilton missed three housing boons until the most recent one.
Because, you could still get a house for 150k, many blacks seeking to escape the hood from the Oranges/Newark/Irvington began moving into the predominately white section of Hilton in the late 90's/early 00s. They were buying them from a predominately elderly community seeking other shelter for a variety of reasons.
Then the most recent boon occured. On top of that was a desire and demand of many NYers (like my family and I) seeking a yard, better schools and some peace and quiet in a diverse town voted one of the best places to live in 2002. Being priced out of most of Maplewood, Hilton looked good price/tax wise. So they began moving in.
All I know is 4 houses just sold around me (in Hilton) for 400k to three white couples and one West Indian couple. And from studying the demographics of the Oranges/Newark and Irvington, I don't think many individuals can afford such prices anymore.
I don't think there is a white flight or an increase of blacks moving in. The market dictates (as usual) and those people who are moving in are those that cann afford to.
Just my two cents.
-SLK
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Lester Jacobs
Citizen
Username: Lester
Post Number: 115
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 10:56 pm: |
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C Bataille: As other posters have pointed out, many people from the Oranges, Irvington, Newark, are now having trouble finding a place in MW. By converting my current house into a 2 family I can attract section 8 renters and/or low income buyers and help alleviate an unmet need. Since the people who will most likely rent or buy will probably be black, if I run into resistance I will challenge the zoning board in court on the basis on racial discrimination. |
doulamomma
Citizen
Username: Doulamomma
Post Number: 1430
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 11:12 pm: |
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You must feel so pleased with yourself, Lester...
What was that thread a while back about karma & the fact that it can be a beotch?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma |
Lizziecat
Citizen
Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 1230
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 12:10 am: |
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Lester's just pulling your chain. First, he's tearing down an old farmhouse in Mendham in order to build his dream hous. Like Mendham would allow that. Now he's going to turn his Maplewood house into section 8 housing. I don't think that Lester even exists--except as a troll. |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 9454
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 12:14 am: |
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Probably a Millburn realtor.  |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5080
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 2:56 am: |
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On the street my family has lived on for more then 40 years two of the houses that have sold in the past three or so years were sold by black families. One moved to Chatham, the other Summit. Guess what? White families bought both of those houses.
Also, another house was sold by a black family who also moved to Chatham to a single black man. So what? This shoots down the 'White Flight' statements some have been making. If anything, it seemd as if the black families are moving out.
Most of the families living here have been here many years. With the exception of a few houses, most have only changed hands once since we've been here. Most people tend to stay put. |
The Notorious S.L.K.
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1427
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 6:17 am: |
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Lester-
You know as well as I that Section 8 would never happen.
Go and knock down your barn and leave us alone if you despire Maplewood so much.
Just make sure it doesn'T fall on top of you now.
-SLK |
3ringale
Citizen
Username: Threeringale
Post Number: 205
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 6:29 am: |
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What I don't understand is why all of the people who are yammering about the joys of diversity moved to Maplewood in the first place. They could have gone to Newark, Irvington, Orange, East Orange, etc. Lower prices, lower taxes and diversity up to your eyeballs. Nice schools, too.
Cheers |
Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1613
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 8:13 am: |
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Well.... there's diversity, and then there's basically doing Peace Corps work, you know?
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The Notorious S.L.K.
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1431
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 9:21 am: |
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3ringale-
I was thinking the same this morning while baking muffins. It appears that some love boasting about diversity as long as they don't have to live by it.
A perfect example was one of our friends (pretty liberal) who moved here with her family from Brooklyn 6 months ago. Both her realtor (a friend of mine) and my wife and I were pushing Hilton section since she can get a good deal on a house, lower taxes, etc. For some reason she is not explaining to this day, she refused to live on "our side" and they bought a smaller house near Clinton school, paid twice as much and paying twice the amount in taxes.
The same week her family moved here she ripped me a new a** for having unpopular opinions about the Katrina victims at our sons Halloween party.
This even caught the attention of my liberal wife...
-SLK
-SLK |
crabby
Citizen
Username: Crabbyappleton
Post Number: 627
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 9:24 am: |
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There's just no explaining some people! |
Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1377
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 9:42 am: |
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baking muffins?
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The Notorious S.L.K.
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1434
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 9:45 am: |
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yeah, I have off today and my in laws are coming into town. My wife is feeding the newborn...and she needed help...
Is that ok?
-SLK |
3ringale
Citizen
Username: Threeringale
Post Number: 207
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 9:48 am: |
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SLK,
I was not aware that there was such a disparity in housing prices and taxes between the Hilton and Clinton school areas. I would have thought they were roughly the same. I live about 5 blocks from Clinton school and went there from K-6th grade. We used to walk home for lunch with no crossing guards to stop traffic for us! Life on the edge. I guess times have changed.
My theory is that there is a direct correlation between enthusiasm for diversity and living in proximity to the Maplewood train station. Maybe it's something in the air?
Cheers |
Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1380
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 9:53 am: |
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Sure. Just conjured up an image that seemed out of character. |
The Notorious S.L.K.
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1436
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 10:12 am: |
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Hoops,
I am full of surprises.... |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7736
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 10:38 am: |
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What kind of muffins? Have you ever tried muffin tops? Since I always cut the stumps off, TS bought a muffin top pan. It's great. Also makes amazing brownies - the round, flatter brownie makes a better base for ice cream than the conventional square cut; it doesn't fall or roll off.
And it's great for diversity if you use vanilla ice cream. |
Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 2776
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 8:36 am: |
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I'm ready to see the "D" word retired. It seems to mean too many things, all at once, and some of them in opposition each to the other. Maplewood seems to have residents of many races, nationalities, sexual orientations, family structures, religions and incomes. But, everyone flakes on behavioral or lifestyle differences that may or may not correlate to the preceding, and then name-calling ensues.
Where I used to live, our street was diverse in all of the foregoing ways, but not in terms of lifestyle. We were all fairly quiet, held modest, occasional outdoor parties, didn't blare music. Then, a family moved in who happened to be White and from Jersey. Loud. Cosntant parties. Much beer and horsehoes. Many barking dogs. Kids toys all over the sidewalk. Disrespectful kids to other adults on the street. Much bug killer and pesticides freely sprayed all the time (including on one neighbor's organic garden). Wifebeater shirts, the whole stereotype. They had a right to be as they were -- for the most part, they broke no ordinances. But, the cultural fit was poor.
Here, my street, near Clinton, is pretty diverse. One neighbor is prone, on summer weekends, to having relatively loud house parties that flow onto his deck after 11. It's never awful, but yeah you wish it could tone down a bit. The real issue is his relentlessly barking dog, which dog the wife doesn't like in the house so he's often outside barking. This family is Black.
So much of what gets complained about here in the name of the D word seems to be about lifestyle preferences, but as soon as you talk about it, eveyone runs to accusations of racism, or a failture of diversity. Personally I see a lot of culture clash along the lines of the examples above. Expectations of kid behavior, loudness, standards of home/yard/car upkeep. I no longer know what people are getting at when they laud, or complain about the lack of, diversity in Maplewood. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14365
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 10:22 am: |
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Aha. So lots of people toss the word "diversity" around, and others take it to mean "harmonious" and take offense that it is used so often. The fact is that we are not completely harmonious, but who really claimed we are? We are, in fact, diverse, which means we have some idiots, boors, and bigots. So?
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Barbara
Citizen
Username: Blh
Post Number: 650
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 12:42 pm: |
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After reading 3ring's post the other day, I posted a short response that didn't seem to make it through the web to MOL. Given more time, my response got longer (warning.)
"What I don't understand is why all of the people who are yammering about the joys of diversity moved to Maplewood in the first place. They could have gone to Newark, Irvington, Orange, East Orange, etc."
3ring -- the places you list above are about as diverse as Madison, Mendham and Alpine. Indeed, they are not diverse -- they consist primarily of people of one race. Cyns right. Diversity means different things to different people -- and to most whites, it doesn't include them. (Have you ever thought that the Diversity Officer at your corporation was there to serve the average white male?) To me, diversity includes whites, blacks, and persons of other races (and ethnicities within each of those races.) Only serving one group would not, to me, mean serving diversity.
Jon Shure provides the following commentary:
On paper, New Jersey is becoming a more diverse state. But at street level the story is different. Two-thirds of whites and blacks in the state "continue to live in places made up mainly of people like themselves," according to the Star-Ledger. Some 330,000 African-Americans live in suburban or rural communities in New Jersey-an increase over 20 years ago of about 130,000. But the analysis showed that in many towns a significant rise in the black population accompanied a significant decrease of whites. Nine towns in the suburban "inner ring" to the west and south of Newark fell into that category.
New Jersey counties where white population ROSE from 2000 to 2002: Somerset, Burlington, Morris, Monmouth, Ocean, Atlantic, Gloucester, Warren, Sussex, Hunterdon.
Counties where white population FELL: Middlesex, Bergen, Union, Essex, Passaic, Hudson, Mercer, Camden, Cumberland, Salem, Cape May.
While some New Jersey counties-even Essex-grew a bit less segregated from 1990 to 2000, the reality is that most of the African-Americans leaving New Jersey cities are concentrated in a few surrounding communities. They move, for example, from Newark to East Orange, Orange and Irvington; Trenton to Ewing; New Brunswick to Franklin and North Brunswick; and Camden to Pennsauken.
At first glance, the Essex County municipalities of Maplewood, South Orange and Montclair might look like typical New Jersey communities. In fact, they are anything but typical: out of New Jersey's 566 municipalities, these three are among only 26 that can actually be labeled as diverse, if the test is 1) having an African-American and Hispanic population of at least 25% and 2) no single race accounts for more than 66% of the population.
So, touting our diversity isn't a bad thing,or incorrect. Indeed we are something special and unique. I wish that we could continue to be special, but perhaps not so unique. It would be nice to have as many choices of towns to live in that are diverse as we have towns that are segregated into one race or another. (A recent analysis of residential segregation by the New Jersey Public Policy Research Institute found that in all but five of the state's counties more than 50% of the members of one racial grouping would have to move to a different Census tract in order to equalize distribution of the two groups. "We are not talking about mild levels; we found what can only be termed hyper-segregation," said NJPPRI Executive Director Roland V. Anglin)
I think the point to be made here is that, just because we are diverse, we shouldn't assume that within the community we all intermingle. I shudder when I hear adults complain about children self segregating at the middle school level -- knowing full well that most of these folks don't socialize with other adults of different races unless at a work or school function. When was the last time you had someone of a different racial background to your home for dinner (if you have folks to dinner!)
So rather than say "blow the whole thing off", why not make an effort to make it work. I know that my life is fuller for living here. Its not necessarily easier, but its worth it. And I'm really proud of what we have, knowing full well its not perfect.
By the way, I get to speak about MSO (and Pennsauken)to community leaders around the state and country that are seeing racial change in their towns, and fear that their towns are headed for decline, e.g. the rapid resegregation and effects on Irvington. So as whites left Irvington, it became less diverse, not more.
(Indeed, over the course of time, towns can change from being segregated in one direction to being segregated in the other direction: from mostly white to mostly black. "The whole issue revolves around when whites no longer feel they are a comfortable majority," Clement Price, a history professor at Rutgers-Newark, told the Ledger. "When a community approaches 33% black, that's usually the signal to the white majority that the town is going to tip over.")With all due respect to dear Dr. Price - I've heard numbers from 25% and up. Fear and discomfort don't happen at an exact moment in racial transition.
These leaders are amazed that MSO leaders saw change, embraced it, and decided to claim the diversity (or integration) as positive and something worth maintaining. So, go ahead, and tout (or toot), and live to enjoy it. |
efull
Citizen
Username: Efull
Post Number: 26
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 3:24 pm: |
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Thank you Barbara for the information, I agree my life is fuller for being here, even with the challenges of "diversity".
However, my challenges will not be my children’s therefore it is even more fulfilling for my family as a whole.
I grew up in Montclair (some say Upper Montclair-I won't go there) We were one of the older black families in the neighborhood (1938) and while I enjoyed a diverse play group there were some incidents, but my family felt that was what had to occur for me to be "me" and for my playmates and I blossom into the well rounded adults we are today. I think the success can be measured in the fact that we are in an area where this discussion is relevant, that means something is going right. Let’s not play ourselves short. If people are moving out and more blacks or others are moving in, let’s not look at the color, but the content of the neighbor. Because I have lived in Montclair, Virginia Beach, Oak City, NC, East Orange, Irvington, Newark, Rutherford, Hackensack & Teaneck and I can tell you it takes all kinds to mess up a good thing.
Cynical girl - hit the nail on the head, when she said diversity just means we are different, not that we all agree and get along, but at least we are not trying to separate ourselves and that makes me proud of where I live.
And the ladies I get drunk with on Friday nights...we're all different, colorful, educated, and beautiful and usually two sheets in the wind by 1:00am!
Aint' life grand! Joking just joking, we do some serious work and would like all of you to join us @ SOMCPEAC-(some- peace) South Orange Maplewood Community Partnership on Equity, Action & Change. Check out our mission on yahoo groups. We can then do more than just talk about our community,we can take action.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOMCPEAC
Robert Livingston- Do I know you from Eseex Catholic Boys? Did you grow up in EO and go to Rutgers, friends with Raymond Gee? PL me if you are him 
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3ringale
Citizen
Username: Threeringale
Post Number: 208
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 7:33 pm: |
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Barbara,
I appreciate the useful information you posted. My remarks on diversity were little more than a knee-jerk response to something that I have long considered to be a piece of knee-jerk, PC cant, i.e. diversity. I have long suspected that it is a code word for some sort of ideal racial/ethnic mix. This seems to be borne out by your (or Jon Shure's?) statement:
At first glance, the Essex County municipalities of Maplewood, South Orange and Montclair might look like typical New Jersey communities. In fact, they are anything but typical: out of New Jersey's 566 municipalities, these three are among only 26 that can actually be labeled as diverse, if the test is 1) having an African-American and Hispanic population of at least 25% and 2) no single race accounts for more than 66% of the population.
Being of a curmudgeonly disposition, stuff like this annoys me. Who sets these standards anyway? Does this mean that a town that is only 24% Black or Hispanic is not diverse? Is a town that is 67% White or Black lacking in diversity? This is flapdoodle, pure and simple. How much diversity is enough?
Can there be such a thing as too much diversity?
I have lived in Maplewood for 46 years, longer, I suppose than most of the people who will bother to read this. I attended Maplewood/South Orange schools from K-12, so I suppose I am entitled to have an opinion on this. Maplewood has always had a minority presence. Was it as "diverse" as it is today? Of course not, but it was a reality. In the 1960s, I had Black (or African-American, if you prefer) neighbors, friends and classmates. It seemed pretty unorchestrated at the time, although I don't doubt that there was conniving by real estate agents, town bureaucrats, etc. to hold the line. Fancy that, people not living up to ideal standards of behavior. Only in America, eh?
Maplewood was a good town then, and it is a good town now. I resent the idea that some egghead academic or bureaucrat with a clipboard full of dubious statistics needs to bestow some sort of diversity imprimatur.
I believe in freedom of association. I do not believe in forced segregation or forced integration. Maybe that makes me an idiot, a boor and a bigot.
Cheers
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james brown
Citizen
Username: James_brown
Post Number: 35
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 10:16 am: |
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When your town is split, white,black, rich, poor, then touting diversity is a joke. I am white and live where my family has lived for 50 years. The wrong or poor side of the tracks.
When I see the theoretical dissertations on should there be camera's set up for security, then read comments about who will know if you are renting porn, I know the other side of town doesn't get it! We need major help to be safe, and you guys don't care!!!!!!!
There is a perception that rich, affluent Maplewood doesn't give a sh*t about this side of town. In the last couple of years besides the influx of crime, and the degrading of neighborhoods on the poor,or black side of town, we have had to fight to keep our library from being shut down, had to fight off the closing of the Betty White center,and other BIG IDEAS that come from the other side of town.
I for one feel there are two Maplewoods. The diversity with some small exceptions, are on this side of town. Read the posts- the good side of town doesn't make much effort to be good neighbors.
My family has and will always be good neighbors, but if you find problems on the good side of town, perhaps it is the unhappy campers of ethnic diversity
come to visit on the Bigtime part of town.
PS I know- nothing is wrong with Maplewood,everybody loves everybody,everything is fair, everybody gets along, as long as they stay on their own side of town. Diversity in Maplewood is a joke. It is defacto segregation. |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 2111
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 10:57 am: |
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the idea that a lot of people on the "west" side of town didn't object as much as you did to the attempted taking of the Bette White building and the closing of the Hilton branch of the library is ridiculous. if it was only the Hilton section fighting them, those would have happened. and one of the "big ideas" coming from the "other side" of town is the police station on Springfield, which is at least intended to address some of your concerns about crime. |
Hamandeggs
Citizen
Username: Hamandeggs
Post Number: 298
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 11:08 am: |
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James,
If life in M/SO looks and feels like "defacto segregation" you aren't a student of history and you haven't travelled far beyond our borders.
Your earlier posts suggest that true diversity means that we are blind to difference. This is a community (as well as an era...almost the zeitgeist of the time) that celebrates our differences. Your own "them" versus "us" attitude doesn't sound like your vision of diversity is becoming your reality.
Perhaps you could teach by example rather than by excoriation. |
james brown
Citizen
Username: James_brown
Post Number: 36
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 1:49 pm: |
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WOW! Noone is celebrating our differences on this side of town. Perhaps you have been traveling to other planets? We're too busy making sure our cars don't get stolen, or our houses robbed, or that our kids can play safe in our yards and parks.
MY side of town would be quite happy to be part of the M/SO party. We don't get the invite. As for the police station, which I am thrilled to have close by, all you have to do is drive by to see there was never any need to close any shop to make room for it. AND----- I have never heard of our town seeking I-Domain on the right side of town! Never. not once! That's only done to this side of town. I wonder why? Whatever you doubt, don't doubt the feelings of discrimination,mistrust, and anger this side of town feels. It is quite real!
Please don't waste your time worrying about my teaching by example, I'll just watch you and the other side of town folks and learn from the masters. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14368
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 1:52 pm: |
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I agree that it was unconscionable that they considered imminent domain, and I can understand that it was a slap in the face that it came to your section of town. But please don't make it seem like we all liked the idea. Only a few did. And we let them know to cut the idea out, and Fred (and others) listened. That's a good thing.
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11588
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 2:11 pm: |
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Isn't Bette White's now closing because the owner is retiring? Unfortunately she was used as a pawn in the game of Maplewood politics. Sorry about the thread drift.
Efull and Barbara, well said. There is a difference between "diversity" and integration.
3ring, E=MC2, or with string theroy does it?
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Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1627
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 2:51 pm: |
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James,
You apparently live in a bad neighborhood.
Sorry.
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harold
Citizen
Username: Harold
Post Number: 374
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 3:04 pm: |
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Yeah, and surprise, the neighborHOOD is in Maplewood.
"there is a direct correlation between enthusiasm for diversity and living in proximity to the Maplewood train station"..... best quote of the year. |
Mummite
Citizen
Username: Mummite
Post Number: 237
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 3:06 pm: |
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Diversity is often understood to be only describing race: black/white/hispanic
However I like the diversity of M/SO and I think of nationalities - families with one or more parents from countries as diverse as Libya, Germany, UK, Ecuador, India etc.
Our street has Asian, White, Black and mixed race families. It has German, British and Chinese families. Both Jewish and catholic religions. It has one parent families, couples with no kids and 2 parent families.
That seems fairly diverse to me. Very welcomng and inclusive of all. |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 7452
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 3:56 pm: |
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Maplewood does have a diversity problem but, IMHO, nobody has touched on it yet. We are losing two segments of our community at an alarming rate. Seniors, who are being taxed out of their own homes are leaving for more affordable communities elsewhere and our young people once they graduate from school are finding it necessary to live elsewhere (unless they move back in with Mom and Dad). We have largely become a community of couples (married or in partnerships) with very young or school aged children. How diverse is that? We are losing our stability as a community and that is far more frightening to me than the ratio of persons of various races/mixed races/religions/occupations/or what have you. Nobody seems to be addressing the joint issues of making it possible for our residents to age in place or making it possible for our children to return to/stay in our community once they have completed their education. |
Wendy
Supporter
Username: Wendy
Post Number: 2484
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 4:27 pm: |
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Well I wouldn't say nobody is addressing the issue of allowing our residents to age in place. I've always maintained that our present tax structure is dismantling age diversity. People ARE doing something about it. Those people who are actively working on changing the funding formula we now have in place for education (wherein more money would come from the state in the form of a higher income tax and less money from the property tax) are doing what needs to be done to help our elderly stay in place if they so choose. As far as allowing our children to stay in our community. Well that's the way life goes. When you first start out in the work force you will likely not earn enough money to afford a house, down payment, taxes, etc. You either live below your childhood's standard of living or you move back home, an increasing trend I hear. |
The Notorious S.L.K.
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1445
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 5:15 pm: |
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james brown-
exactly where us YOUR side of town anyways. Are you speaking about all of Hilton Section of thw Jacoby area?
-SLK |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14369
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 5:36 pm: |
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When I moved out on my own, I was also dismayed that I couldn't afford to live where I grew up, which was the upper west side. So I moved to Washington Heights. I guess a good place to raise kids is unaffordable to young adults. I don't know if we can solve that, but we SHOULD try to solve the problem for empty-nesters.
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Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 2780
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 5:45 pm: |
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What's so odd, or unfortunate, about living in a crappy apartment with fellow recent grads, in your home town or elsewhere? I didn't buy a house till I was in my 30's. I do think it's a shame that the tax structure is forcing seniors out, but I likewise think it odd that 22 year olds (or their parents) expect to live at the same level/circumstance as their parents. I thought making your way was part of growing up process from which one shouldn't be protected. Old fogie talking here. I moved all over the place as a young person (far from home). It's kinda broadening... |
james brown
Citizen
Username: James_brown
Post Number: 37
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 5:47 pm: |
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I am including Jacoby St, Boyden Ave, Henry Pl, Hughes ST, lower Tuscan Rd, Lee Ct.Harding St, 44 St, the Union side of Springfield ave,and the Irvington side of Springfield ave. In short, the Hilton and Lightening Brook sections.Everything with a few exceptions on this side of Sprinfield Ave. The sections bordering Irvington are probably the worst, but the sections bordering Union and Vauxhall will never be confused with the good side of town
The area that borders Newark has some issues.( the gates? )
My best guess is that Jacoby WAS worst off because it borders both Irvington and Union and serves as a lane the teens use to go back and forth.
I don't want folks to get the wrong idea, things are much better on this side of town as far as crime goes. I am very grateful to the Police for that.
It seems our neighbors have stepped up as well. Things were very scary for a couple of years. Make no mistake we on this side of town do not feel we get a fair shake from the town. There are TWO Maplewoods. |
Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1630
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 6:21 pm: |
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So? There's starvation in Africa too - what's your point? |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 7454
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 8:07 pm: |
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James: I'm glad to see that you are experiencing better conditions in Lightning Brook these days, that you feel less alone in working to improve conditions in your neighborhood and that you have been getting the help you asked for from the Town government. We will all benefit as conditions improve in that section of town.
Wendy: I agree that a lot of people are trying to solve the property tax problem which is forcing so many of our seniors to leave town when they retire but I am realistic enough to believe that a solution to our real property tax problems will not be reached within the lifetime of today's senior citizens. Perhaps the generation which comes after us will have a better system in place for them. In the meanwhile, we are still seeing a narrowing of the age range of our adult residents and something other than waiting for tax reform needs to be considered.
Regarding our young people: I am not suggesting that they should purchase Maplewood houses directly out of school but the town might benefit from having studio apartments or some other form of starter rentals which our young people could afford. |
Mummite
Citizen
Username: Mummite
Post Number: 238
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 8:17 pm: |
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I agree we have mostly families because the majority style of house in the two towns is 3-4-5 bedroom homes.
We would need diverse accommodation to attract and keep younger/older (diverser) age of population. There are few singletons living alone in a 5 bed house. But unless we tear down the older homes where would they build the 2 bedroom homes/condos. |
The Notorious S.L.K.
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1451
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 8:34 pm: |
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James,
I live in Hilton and except for a few noisy kids now and then I have no problems. I leave things on my lawn and no one bothers them. My son plays safely in our backyard. Most people take care of their houses/property.
But yet again, I am comparing to Brooklyn living where problems would of been born if we didn't move.
I live closer to Vauxhall too. Is that what you mean by the "Union side of Springfield?"
I am just trying to understand.
-SLK
BTW, I saw you letter in the town paper defending the CHS Principal. Being new to the area, I don't know much about the matter but congrats on getting your view published...
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james brown
Citizen
Username: James_brown
Post Number: 38
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 11:24 am: |
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Notorius, if all is good by you I am happy for you and yours. Where I live we have cracked down hard on crime. Things are getting better. It seems there are pockets of trouble. We have lost businesses and jobs because of it, and the quality of life issues remain. Maplewood is an expensive place to live, and our govt. owes it's people a decent place to live, work, and raise kids. I hope Maplewood treats you and your family well
JB |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 7458
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 8:32 pm: |
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Mummite:
We wouldn't have to tear down any existing housing stock to develop some appropriate housing for seniors and recent grads. There are a few options we could explore -- provided the town wanted to go this route. There would likely not be enough units generated to satisfy the full need but it would be a start.
Here are two ideas. I'm sure others reading this thread could easily come up with more.
1. Include appropriate rental units aimed at the needs of our young grads in our redevelopment zones. Place them in areas near public transportation such as the redevelopment zones along Springfield Avenue or in underutilized space on Valley Street. Encourage mixed development with basic needs stores on the ground floor and rental units above. Include a cafe or two where these residents could congregate in the evenings or on weekends to build a sense of community.
2. Enable seniors (especially empty nesters in larger homes) to rent a part of their house to one or more recent grads who would agree to help with maintenance and other chores the senior(s) could no longer perform easily in exchange for reduced rent. The seniors would have built in help, companionship, and someone else in the house and the young grads would have suitable housing they could afford. Win for the seniors and the students. The rent being paid by the young grad(s) would help pay the taxes and the senior would be saved the cost of having to hire people to perform basic chores for them.
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11611
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 7:35 am: |
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Is the proposed development of senior housing next to DeHart Park still on the table? |
The Notorious S.L.K.
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1516
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 10:30 am: |
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another source tells me that their is some type of "black flight" going on as many are heading South (Atlanta)....
who knows,
from one perspective, if you really want to see the racial makup changing over a the years from just go to Tuscan school and compare the racial makeup of the kindegarten class with 5th grade on the playground...you'll notice a difference. The 5th grade is split while the kindergarten class is predominately white....
-SLK |
Eponymous
Citizen
Username: Eponymous
Post Number: 190
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 11:20 am: |
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SLK,
Taking a snapshot of one school in the district isn't too scientific.
But there are several things that you might be observing there besides any change in the overall population makeup (assuming your observations are accurate). Here's one:
There's actually a difference in the ethnic composition of the schools by age, independent of a change in overall population. That is, the public schools in our area become less white as you go up in age.
Rather than assume a significant population shift, I've always attributed this to income (or class, if you prefer). That is, as kids approach college, those families who can afford to start spending money on private schools if they feel that such schools would give their children an advantage in getting into a good school. Since the wealthier segments of the population have proportionately more whites, the schools get proportionately less white as you go up in age. |
The Notorious S.L.K.
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1521
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 12:35 pm: |
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Eponymous-
Maybe, your assumptions are as good as mine. Since Tuscan is such a sought after school by many parents I wouldn't think class would come into play, especially on an elementary schoold level.
-SLK |
HOMMELL
Citizen
Username: Hommell
Post Number: 209
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 12:45 pm: |
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Why is Tuscan a sought after school? |
The Notorious S.L.K.
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1522
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 12:56 pm: |
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Hommell-
I have no clue but that is what everyone keeps telling me. My realtor even uses it as part of his sales pitch when selling homes in our area. I guess it is a really good school.
-SLK |
HOMMELL
Citizen
Username: Hommell
Post Number: 210
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 2:05 pm: |
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We heard it from Realtors too, but never understood why (we don't have children and I am not making judgments of any of the schools--just curious). Anyone else know? |
The Notorious S.L.K.
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1525
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 2:35 pm: |
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All I know is my wife has her sights set on Tsucan for when our two year old comes of age. It seems that Maplewodo has an adoration for this school, mor than others. It's curriculm? It's diversity....I have no idea... |
HOMMELL
Citizen
Username: Hommell
Post Number: 212
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 4:17 pm: |
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Maybe I'll put this in a new thread. Then we can get some answers. |
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