| Author | Message | ||
     Jhcmom Citizen Username: Jhcmom Post Number: 53 Registered: 1-2004 |
PLEASE BEWARE.......Yesterday around 11:30am, there was an attempted car jacking in the parking lot of Motion Fitness. A man tried to get a woman to get into the front seat of her car with him. She was securing car seats in the back of her car at the time. Fortunately, she had the presence of mind to jump out of the opposite side of the car and run yelling "call the police!" Please be aware of your surroundings when going to your car in a parking lot. Go in pairs if possible. This parking lot was full at the time of the incident. The woman did not park in a remote area. Unfortunately, the Jacker got away in his own vehicle. He did not take the purse, phone or keys that were left in the car. The woman did get a good look at the Jacker and will be meeting with a sketch artist, & the police dusted the car for fingerprints. NEVER LET YOUR GUARD DOWN, NO MATTER WHAT! | ||
| Buzzsaw Citizen Username: Buzzsaw Post Number: 4755 Registered: 5-2001  |
where is motion fitness? | ||
| Jhcmom Citizen Username: Jhcmom Post Number: 54 Registered: 1-2004 |
Behind CVS & Whole Foods on Millburn Ave. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 11584 Registered: 5-2001 |
Millburn is a very dangerous town!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| kmk Supporter Username: Kmk Post Number: 1256 Registered: 5-2001  |
Jhcmom, How did you get the details on this? Were you around at the time? Were there kids in the back seat? | ||
| crabby Citizen Username: Crabbyappleton Post Number: 631 Registered: 1-2004 |
That is a popular lot for car-jacking as it is a short "get away" to the highway. | ||
| eb1154 Citizen Username: Eb1154 Post Number: 508 Registered: 5-2001 |
Was it a car jacking or kidnapping? It sounds like an attempted kidnapping, which is more scary to me. In a carjacking the jacker just wants the car but in a kidnapping I think the intent is a little bit different. | ||
| pseudonymous Citizen Username: Berry_festival Post Number: 250 Registered: 9-2003 |
and a kidnapping is usual personal and targeted. not random. | ||
| Eats Shoots & Leaves Citizen Username: Mfpark Post Number: 3367 Registered: 9-2001  |
Crabby--what do you mean it is "a popular lot for car-jacking"? Are you saying that this is something that has happened in that lot many times before? | ||
| kmk Supporter Username: Kmk Post Number: 1257 Registered: 5-2001 |
Xenon headlights are often the target in that lot... | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1770 Registered: 3-2003 |
About 7-8 years ago, there was a carjacking that took place in the Whole Foods parking lot. The carjacker wasn't aware that there was an infant in the rear seat. As I recall, when he discovered the infant after driving the car a short distance, he stopped the car and took off. The infant was fine. | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 1864 Registered: 5-2001 |
Most of the time those lots have a security guard driving around, and it seems to get regular police patrols - but still - pretty scary story. I was working out at Motion around 6 months ago and a member's car was either stolen, or broken into - I can't recall which it was - this happened around 11 or 12 on a Saturday afternoon. I was shopping at Whole Foods last Sunday morning and there was a creepy couple (man and woman) smoking and walking around the parking lot. Noticed them when I went in, and came out. I should have gone back in and said something come to think of it. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 954 Registered: 7-2005  |
Oh noes! People walking around. If the children were not in the car...then the smart thing would have been to quietly give the car up..not shuffle all the way over to the other side screaming. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7751 Registered: 5-2001  |
Kings in SH is also a popular shopping spot for discount Xenon headlights. Parking lots have been dangerous as places for crimes of opportunity since the beginning of time. Or at least the advent of shopping malls. I remember way back in the day, when I was smarter than everyone else and felt compelled to add bored, sophisticated commentary to any and every subject. Fortunately, I outgrew it. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 955 Registered: 7-2005 |
"If someone approaches you while you are getting into your car, it might be the best thing to simply let them take the car, as long as they're not trying to take you or your child with it. One way to foil their plan is simply to throw your keys as far away as possible. If someone is threatening you with a weapon, you are entitled to defend yourself; you're not protecting your car from the carjacker, you're protecting yourself from the carjacker." from www.aware.org/crimes.shtml#cars.whatdo | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5089 Registered: 1-2004  |
Crabby- Your statment about it being a polular place for carjackings is false... | ||
| Copperfield Citizen Username: Copperfield Post Number: 364 Registered: 1-2004 |
To Lydia's point- there's a private security car that seems to potrol that lot 24/7 - I've never not seen them there. Given that the lot isn't all that big, surprised that someone would risk it. (Also, if you've ever tried to exit that lot, a quick getaway isn't necessarily a given!) | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 6361 Registered: 12-2001  |
copperfield, if you have just jacked a car, I doubt traffic is gonna be an issue for you. | ||
| chroma Citizen Username: Chroma Post Number: 38 Registered: 3-2005 |
According to what I heard, the person involved left her keys on the front seat and the door open while she went back to adjust the car seat, which, I would bet, she'll never do again. There were no kids in the car. I have been told that it is best to always have your keys in your hand as you approach your car, unlock the car, get in and re-lock the car door immediately, then go. Seems the safest way. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 956 Registered: 7-2005 |
It is. What she did (scream and flee) was extremely dangerous. She's lucky the guy wasn't armed and/or fleeing a robbery/homicide or something and didn't smoke her. | ||
| Case Citizen Username: Case Post Number: 1618 Registered: 2-2005 |
Glock, You're wrong. You never, ever, ever get in the car. Ever. Once you do that, you're lost. Gone. Getting in the car is EXTREMELY stupid. Don't do anything "quietly". Yell your head off. Run. Do whatever you need to do, but never go along. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 957 Registered: 7-2005 |
I didn't say she should get in the car. I said she shouldve waited till the guy was gone to scream and go for help. Thus emlinating the risk of the guy killing her right there to shut her up. | ||
| Case Citizen Username: Case Post Number: 1619 Registered: 2-2005 |
You're so wrong. She did exactly the right thing. Then again, this might not be what they teach in 12th grade, but... | ||
| 6yearrez Citizen Username: 6yearrez Post Number: 167 Registered: 9-2001 |
OK, I was waiting to see if anyone was going to start a thread. I am the victim and still shaking from the event, as I read the comments above. The details as described above are mostly accurate. jhcmom, I must have spoken with you at Motion yesterday, because you were extraordinarily accurate. I will give the corrections on some of the other comments made above. My keys and bag were tossed into the front seat. That's the only thing I would never do again, and it was careless to leave those things there, given that I was in the back seat and vulnerable. -I was completely in the back row of my minivan, clipping in two toddler seats. I had to get the kids at preschool. Anyone who has this task knows it takes full body leaning to get the seats in completely securely, hence I was totally in the car. The driver side second row door was open because that's how I entered to get the seats into the second row. -I heard/sensed a presence in the car, which was a man leaning into the car, behind me, which turned out to be a man telling me to get into the front seat. I looked at him to see if I knew him (I did not), I made him repeat his request, as I began to process what was actually happening. Again, I was completely, already, in the car when he appeared in my car. -When I finally realized what he wanted (me, in the front seat), he had a hand on me, and I somehow reached over, yanked open the other second row door of the minivan that was within my arms reach, threw myself out, and ran like hell back towards the gym door. It was completely survival instinct. When I got far enough away, I screamed to anyone I saw, and I kept running. I don't know what I would have done if I had seen a weapon. My body/brain went on autopilot. Everything I've ever seen or heard about carjacking was to give up the car. Of course I would have done that. I also knew my best chance of survival was to Get Out. Some kind of survival instinct took over and saved me. In the end the guy took off in a different car, my possessions untouched. He wanted me, in the front seat. I don't want to think about more than that. Things would have been very different if I had had the child lock on in the second row, where I was trying to get out. I don't know what I would have done if that latch were locked. Writing about this has been therapeutic, and thanks to everyone who was there at Motion (you know who you are!!), you were amazing. Also thanks to the Millburn Police Dept. You were extraordinary. I want to be careful how much I say because as far as I know the police are still investigating, so I am telling you all as much as I've told anyone I see who frequents the area. I know they have increased security in the last day, and I'm looking forward to someday feeling safe again. | ||
| Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2483 Registered: 5-2001 |
As someone who was a victim of a mugging in 1988 here in Maplewood (almost in front of the A&P), I hope to assure you that you will someday feel safe again. Not tomorrow and not next week, but slowly you will feel safe again. You'll probably always be more alert (a good thing) but you will get over the anger and fear that you may have (I certainly did) and you will become you again. Congratulations on doing the right thing! Wendy Lauter | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 6365 Registered: 12-2001 |
As someone who was held up at gunpoint in Detroit I assure you you will someday feel safe again. I get apprehensive in certain situations but attribute that to being more aware and think of it as a good thing. One of these was placed with the barrel touching my forehead on my first night off at grad school..  The two things I remember are, man this thing is cold. And that I was worried about acne and getting a date when I was the age the perps were. I am glad you are safe and physically unharmed. | ||
| Case Citizen Username: Case Post Number: 1620 Registered: 2-2005 |
6, Great job! There are a lot of ways to protect yourself in the future... awareness is the first and most important defense. There are a variety of easy-to-use non-lethal devices, also - not to turn you into the Terminator, but for peace of mind you may want to consider buying (and being trained in the use of) CN gas. Fabulous stuff - in quantity, this stuff literally dissuades a charging bear from attacking. Easiest non-lethal defense you can use. In fact, probably the easiest defense to use overall! Anyway, the important thing is that you're safe and you did the right thing. Don't worry about the skel that did this to you - people like that almost always run into "difficulty" (i.e. getting their dumb ••• shot) sooner or later. You'll never know, but trust me - if the scumbag is out there stealing cars, he's not exactly doing well for himself, you know? | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 1866 Registered: 5-2001 |
6Yearrez - I had no idea that was you. I'm so sorry this happened at all. Glock17 - until you're mugged or assualted or have a friend who was, you don't really know how confusing and scary it is.
That's the weird thing that happens in an assault - on one hand you're still playing by politeness rules "Um, do I know you?" On the other hand nothing makes sense - a stranger is in your car is making the rules. Running and screaming for help was courageous and may have saved your life. I'm so glad you're OK - and sharing your story reminds everyone to stay alert in parking lots - even in familiar places on sunny days. | ||
| C Bataille Citizen Username: Nakaille Post Number: 2628 Registered: 5-2001 |
6Yearrez: I'm so glad for you and your family that you have great instincts and that the guy didn't brandish a weapon. It will take time but you will recover. Thank you for posting. Duncan is right, the experience stays will you in some way but can be empowering rather than debilitating. Life will never be quite the same but may, in fact, become more precious. | ||
| 6yearrez Citizen Username: 6yearrez Post Number: 170 Registered: 9-2001 |
Thank you, all of you- for sharing your experiences by posts and phone calls, checking in with me, and keeping my spirits up. You all know how to do that. I know that life will assume a new normal. I am relieved not to be alone and sad that there are so many of us to share these common experiences. Wendy- awesome words. Thank you for sharing your experience. You are a survivor and you help me look upwards. Duncan- thank you, and wow. Interesting details to remember (memory is a funny thing) The gun photo is freaking me out. Case- love the parting words and the logic. Thank you for making me smile. What's CN gas? Lydia- thanks for the call. Great to catch up with you. Jhcmom- I realized who you are! Duh. See you Monday, and I promise the car seats will be buckled in in advance. You are the best. | ||
| Ligeti Man Meat Citizen Username: Ligeti Post Number: 664 Registered: 7-2002  |
Is Glock....17-years-old? No matter what he writes, he always sounds like a teenager. I have the impression he hasn't booked much time in the adult world yet. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5101 Registered: 1-2004 |
6 I am glad you're okay. While I know this doesn't happen often in that lot, just once is more then enough. I'm in CVS at least twice a week. I'm going to be more aware of who's around me now. Thanks for sharing your experience with us. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7753 Registered: 5-2001 |
There is no right or wrong way to handle a situation. You go with instinct and whatever you feel will keep you alive. If only it were that easy: have a list of things to do, follow it and no one gets hurt. Trying a manuever that you are not capable of carrying out can get you dead. 6 went with her instincts and it saved her from whatever. That's what's important. The one thing that we can all do other than to be more aware of our surroundings is to go over scenarios in our head about what we'd do if cornered. It may or may not be practical if ever needed, but it can't help. People who have been victims don't generally tell other victims what they should have done differently. | ||
| Case Citizen Username: Case Post Number: 1621 Registered: 2-2005 |
Now that the thread seems to be wrapping up, I'm just glad that Glock didn't put this whole thing down to a white conspiracy of some sort.  There are a lot of different types of tear gas; CN is one of them. The most effective spray seems to be pepper spray, believe it or not - Oleoresin Capsicum (OC) is the best one you can get. There are four things to think about: delivery method, accessibility, training, and willingness to use it. Long story short: 1. you can buy this stuff in a small pen-like container all the way up to a 'bear cannister' that will fog a huge area. Before you jump to deciding what's the best size, read #2. 2. Where will you carry it, and how can you get to it? A bear spray in the glove compartment is useless; a small 5' radius bottle will require a lot more precision... and in a stressful situation will be much harder to use. 3. Training. Practicing with this thing is really, really important. I know it sounds like a bad sitcom, but you could wind up spraying yourself with the stuff... the idea is that you don't buy it, put it in your purse and forget it. 4. Part of training, really, it's the mental preparation you go through BEFORE a problem occurs. Again, to make a long story short, you have to be 100% convinced that you're going to pull this thing out and use it in an emergency. You need to visualize yourself being threatened, responding, and escaping. OC is non-lethal, but this mental preparation still needs to take place. (As an aside, this is a lot more important with home-protection handguns and shotguns. In the unlikely event that you have an intruder in your home, the time to make a decision to shoot is months before the break in. You don't want to be pointing a shotgun at someone and shrilling, "Don't make me shoot you because I will and it will be your fault!" There's a very old saying that you never point a gun at someone you're not completely willing to shoot - to a certain extent this applies to all weapons, right?). OK, so I just re-read this post and it is absolutely coming off like some kind of vigilante training website. All that's missing is a mailing address in Utah and a link to buy guns, ammo and American flags. Sorry, I really didn't mean for that to happen... the bottom line is, there ARE things you can do to protect yourself but they will require a certain amount of effort. I like tear gas because it is a ranged weapon (unlike a taser or club), and even though it takes training and practice to be effective it really IS a devastating weapon. Plus it's non lethal, which is nice these days. (PS - I hate lawyers). Remember, awareness of your surroundings is the most important thing. That is the most effective method of protection, as well as the safest and best. There's no need to be frightened, no need to strap hundreds of dollars worth of gear to your body when you leave the house, etc... but everyone makes their own choices. I can sympathize with your feelings after this incident, and perhaps there's something you can do to make yourself feel better (i.e. safer, more in control). Something I would REALLY suggest is to take a self-defense class. In summary, this would be a very focused and specific form of a martial arts training... where you'd be taught to react to three or four different scenarios, and then you'd practice it until it became second nature. I'm sure you've seen these on TV so I won't describe them. What else? Oh yeah - you could actually do a martial-arts class, but it would probably take years before you were reasonably effective. It's very much a personal choice, but (after Awareness, which is mandatory) your options probably lie with the personal-security class or the OC cannister. Don't live in fear, though. (Maybe avoid that parking lot?). This was a random occurance that was not your fault; kind of like being in a car accident.... or rather, thanks to your reaction, like ALMOST being in a car accident! | ||
| Case Citizen Username: Case Post Number: 1622 Registered: 2-2005 |
So I just read the posting above mine from greenetree: The one thing that we can all do other than to be more aware of our surroundings is to go over scenarios in our head about what we'd do if cornered. A tad more concise than my posting (by about... 85%?) and it is exactly correct. Going over scenarios, as she puts it, is phenomenally effective. | ||
| margotsc Citizen Username: Margotsc Post Number: 77 Registered: 7-2002 |
Wow, this is a wake up call (for me anyway). I'm glad everyone is OK, but I wanted to point out one thing. Even though it may seem more "sensible" to follow a mugger's, rapist's or car jacker's directions and not put up a fight, I thought that the best thing you can do is exactly what 6yearrez did in this case: Make as much noise and as much of a fuss as possible to get attention and most importantly to scare the attacker off. Most of time these people are looking for an easy target and if you prove to be difficult in any way, they'll move on fast to avoid being caught. (Obviously what happened in this case.) Just a bit of advice from a friend of mine who taught self-defense. | ||
| doulamomma Citizen Username: Doulamomma Post Number: 1432 Registered: 3-2002 |
As has been said, anytime someone walks away from any sort of attempt like this, they did the right thing. We have instincts to protect us & it's wonderful that 6year listened to hers and did exactly what was needed. So glad you are OK & I thank you for sharing your story so that we are all reminded to be aware - it's so easy to forget & I've done what you describe & similar things many times. It's my understanding that, unless your instincts say otherwise, wisdom supports running/screaming & if that's not possible or doesn't work THEN do whatever is necessary with complete commitment so as to not to get taken away in such situations, as there is nothing good that can happen if you are taken...and if it's stuff they want instead (as someone said), put distance between yourself & the stuff (keys, wallet) & let 'em have it (assuming there isn't someone in the car) I've not been in a situation exactly like this (but was once in some danger & had to get away). I took a self-defense class and was told that fighting back is not the best FIRST line of defense - running & screaming is. If one fights back, it must be with everything you have & there are smarter ways to do it - weak points etc. We practiced having me reach in my purse and grab the first thing I felt and find a way to use it - even a movie ticket stub can be used. I found it very helpful to actually hit someone & yell loud - I had never done so before in that way & found that doing drills and physically acting out the scenarios was helpful. I like what Greentree says about mentally making a plan too - that's what we do with our kids ("If a stranger comes up & says he lost his puppy..."), so why not with ourselves. | ||
| kmk Supporter Username: Kmk Post Number: 1259 Registered: 5-2001 |
In an odd way being a mother has heightened my awareness to danger. As a woman you start out being vigilant on the university campus, then as a single gal in NYC you sharpen your awareness to surroundings. But being a mother takes the cake.... I can feel the hair stand up on the back of my neck if a person nearby begins to act strangely. The "mother lion" in me would not hesitate to use whatever means available to protect myself and my kids. I once threw a hardsided suitcase at the ankles of a fleeing pickpocket! Talk about empowering....I got to "wind up" a couple of times as he came running towards me and then it was like bowling for bad guys! 6yearrez all you instincts were right on the money. I predict that your common sense and good instincts will take you far in life. | ||
| Jhcmom Citizen Username: Jhcmom Post Number: 55 Registered: 1-2004 |
6- yes, it is me. I am so glad you are ok! After reading these posts, I think that we are all on the same page...GET AWAY! The tear gas is a good idea, but in this situation, where would 6 have put it? In her pocket? On the seat next to her as she is forcing a car seat into the tightest position? Everyone knows that is takes all limbs to put in a car seat & being that things happened so quickly, 6 would have had a hard time grabbing it & aiming. I am not saying this sarcastically, really. I was just thinking how it could have played out if 6 tried to grab for the tear gas & wasted get-away time. Would that have given the attacker time to take over? When you go to the same place every day, you aquire a comfort level for that place & it doesn't really cross your mind that anything would ever happen there. Not smart, I know. But, I left that same parking lot 15 minutes before 6, & I never even thought of the possibility of being safe or not safe. I was just thinking about all the things that I had to do that day. About a year ago I was taking a self defense course & I was always aware of my surroundings. However, it is much like the out of sight out of mind thing. The awareness slowly went away. That will never happen again! 6, I am glad your child locks were not on & your instincts were. I have unlocked my child locks because of this. ( I do expect a comment from someone admonishing me for this, but my kids know not to play with the doors) See you Monday! | ||
| Case Citizen Username: Case Post Number: 1626 Registered: 2-2005 |
No, not in the seat next to her. That actually gives your attacker a weapon, which is a pretty bad situation in and of itself. Things like OC spray need to be literally in your hand to be effective. It is best used in situations like getting into your car at night, in a parking garage, anywhere you are alone and feel vulnerable. Don't confuse an OC cannister with 6 giant bodyguards - nothing is perfect, but even a slight increase in your odds is worthwhile. If you're aware and alert, you'll be passed by... someone who looks more like a victim will be more appealing to the attacker. THAT is probably the biggest message to take away from this story. If you're distracted by something, you're obviously not paying attention to your surroundings. (This is not a criticism, by the way - you have to live, right? You're not riding shotgun on the freakin stagecoach, you're trying to put your groceries away!). This is going to sound SO paranoid, but rather than make a direct line to the car, you may consider doing a bit of a circle route - that shows you who may be lurking about. THIS is the time to have the OC spray in your hand. You don't have to be a gunslinger from the old west... just be ready. If you're walking home from the subway at night, why not have the cannister in your hand? (I realize there are no subways in Maplewood - it's just an example). If you have the cannister on your person AND you can get to it while running away (or at least towards a brightly lit area, anything) then it would be effective. If you can run, run! Just freakin leave. You never want to get into a 'stand and fight' situation with someone. As dumb as this may sound, don't run away, get your OC spray out and then go back to deal with the guy. If you're able to leave, LEAVE. Leave yelling and screaming, make as much noise as you possibly can. What you say about the comfort level is true, and that's the big danger we all face. It's hard to be alert and aware at all times - but if you try, you'll do fine. One last thought regarding the OC spray. If it's in your purse, fine - make sure it's clipped securely so it is ALWAYS in the same place.... this is not the time for rummaging, right? If you think about it, just being aware of your surroundings will be the biggest help - you'll probably never need anything else. Think about the subway in NYC. Who gets bothered? Someone with bags, who's searching through their case for something, someone who is DISTRACTED. If you are quiet and composed and looking around you, you don't give off that 'target' vibe. To put this another way, who would you rather attack? Someone walking by themselves in a somewhat purposeful manner, or someone struggling to carry a bunch of shopping bags? I'm not going to play the 'what if' game with 6's experience any more, except to say once again that I'm thrilled with the action she took. I think it's counterproductive to discuss her specific situation, but I hope we all agree that getting in the car would have been a tremendously poor decision on her part. |
