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Message |
    
Wendyn
Supporter
Username: Wendyn
Post Number: 3116
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 12:28 pm: | 
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I thought this was a very interesting concept and a great idea. Several of the comments are worried about weather, dogs and pedophiles.
Thoughts?
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2006/05/walking_school_.html |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14420
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 12:36 pm: |
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Good idea. The comments annoyed me. One person said kids are too lazy for this. Yeah, whose doing is that?!
Walking to school was one reason we chose Maplewood.
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LilLB
Citizen
Username: Lillb
Post Number: 1700
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 12:40 pm: |
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How far do kids have to live from the school to get bus service? I always walked to elementary school because it was less than a 1/2 mile away, and they wouldn't have given me bus service even if I wanted it. Just curious how far people might be walking if they did something like this in MW/SO. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14421
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 12:43 pm: |
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Good question. I don't know. I think our threshold is about two miles, which is a lot. And some hills are substantial. I think a lot of parents drive their kids from South Orange to CHS, because it's far. But I think a lot of kids also walk the two or so miles, in all kinds of weather.
The fear of abduction really bothers me. It's out of proportion to the risks. And dogs? Come on.
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Wendyn
Supporter
Username: Wendyn
Post Number: 3117
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 12:48 pm: |
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I think the minimum federal or state requirement for bussing is 2 miles, but towns can lower this. I think Millburn's is 1 mile. Millburn also did a study to see if any specific routes were more hazerdous as to require bussing under the 1 mile minimum, so there are obviously factors other than distance that could require bussing.
I see the point about weather being an issue, but seriously if a (non-disabled) kid can't walk a mile in a bit of snow that is pretty sad. My tiny (and I mean TINY) 4 year old was walking 1/2 mile with a backpack every day last summer in camp and although I was a bit worried she survived. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 4978
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 1:07 pm: |
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Think there's any relationship between increased obesity in kids, lack of exercise, and the fact that nobody walks to school anymore? |
campbell29
Citizen
Username: Campbell29
Post Number: 450
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 1:21 pm: |
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We are bussed and are probably about 2 miles away from our zoned school, however we go to Seth Boyden and are even farther and use the bus. One thing I don't understand is that the bus always looks empty. In the interest of saving fuel, shouldn't someone consider switching to a smaller bus on the routes where this could work? |
Eats Shoots & Leaves
Citizen
Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 3378
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 1:23 pm: |
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Why, when we were kids, we walked fifteen miles each way to school through chest-high drifts of snow--in mid-June! And then there were the highwaymen and bandits we had to fight off, and the pteradactyls, not to mention Bruce the Bully who was always waiting for us with a mace and sword.
Kids these days--phooey, all soft and flab. No wonder America is going to the dogs. |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 4735
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 1:41 pm: |
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It's possible elementary may be less than high school.
Wendyn- A friend lives practically the furthest house from millburn middle in millburn. She wanted her kids to be able to go on the bus, but the school said she was closer than 1.5 miles. She said it was definitely 1.5 miles. Mapquest says its 1.53. The middle school then had someone walk with her from the middle school back to her house with a pedometer - following the route that her child would take! i guess they were hoping it was shorter than 1.5. Anyway, she was able to get the bus, which saved her on many days from having to pick them up at school.
What craziness she had to go through! |
Camnol
Citizen
Username: Camnol
Post Number: 353
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 1:53 pm: |
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A friend who lives in Westfield was telling me that her brother-in-law's neighborhood does a "walking schoolbus" (also Westfield). It's just a bunch of adults who rotate the responsibility of walking the kids to school. The school district isn't responsible for it. It's worked out very well.
The kids in my neighborhood all walk to school. One of the many reasons I love Maplewood! |
Wendyn
Supporter
Username: Wendyn
Post Number: 3118
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 1:55 pm: |
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ff, I think you are correct, elementary requirements are less miles and more stringent for hazerdous conditions.
There was talk of the underused busses in the Millburn section of MOL as well.
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HOMMELL
Citizen
Username: Hommell
Post Number: 195
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 3:01 pm: |
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ES&L - I believe it was also uphill both ways. |
spw784
Supporter
Username: Spw784
Post Number: 897
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 3:34 pm: |
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I THINK it is 2 miles for K-8 and 2.5 miles for HS... Hazardous route bussing does not follow those rules (such as the K-1 kids who are shuttled to the Annex, and vice versa). |
Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 2792
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 3:41 pm: |
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We live over 2 miles from both SOMS and MMS. There is no bus service provided. A lot of parents near us drive their kids to MS. In nicer weather (like now) my kid has walked home, though almost never alone. I drive her in the a.m. when I go to take the train. Personally, I think it's too far in bad weather for the ms and hs kids. I wish there were a transportation option, and have talked to folks about the jitney (parental pay). |
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 977
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 3:46 pm: |
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A walking schoolbus from Irvington Ave to South Mountain in the freezing cold. Nice one.
Just kidding. The answer to obesity is proper nutrition and not babysitting our children with the television/videogames. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14427
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 3:48 pm: |
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Cynicalgirl, what was the response? I think it would be nice if your daughter could ride a bus, though http://maps.google.com says it's 1.6 miles to MMS and 1.8 miles to SOMS from your house.
I suspect some MMS-ers walk more than two miles, and I'm not saying that's reasonable.
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Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 2793
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 3:59 pm: |
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Oops! I thought last time we had this discussion it was more. In any case, in my personal view, it's too far in bad weather and think it's even more too far for the h.s. kids if the radius is 2.5 miles.
I'm not looking for a school bus (a lot of older kids hate them anyway) and all the rigmarole that entails. The jitney idea got, I think, taken forward but there's no direction at this time that I'm aware of. Apparently, the present jitney is subsidized, and there's politics in the township around whether it should be, or self-supporting. Adding the school kid need re-opens that. Plus, could well be staffing and insurance issues depend upon how its categorized. Fundamentally, I'm looking for public transportation, not school buses. |
wnb
Citizen
Username: Wnb
Post Number: 381
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 4:00 pm: |
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We have many, many kids walk by our house school mornings and afternoons.
I like it.
Boy life sure has gotten complicated. Or maybe people have gotten good at complicating life. We used to walk to school, the older kids (6th graders) were the "AAA School Patrol" and acted as crossing guards, kids as young as first grade and maybe even kindergarten walked to school. I do not remember ever, not even once, being driven to school in the car, no matter what the weather or anything. (I'm going to have to check with Mom on the accuracy of that memory!)
It's so sad. We just walked. We also just played, just ate, etc etc. I have two little ones, some times I feel really sad for the society we've made for these kids.
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Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 2794
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 4:39 pm: |
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I lived in NJ as a kid, and walked a fur piece from my Scotch Plains house to Evergreen Elementary (we're talking the '60's). No problem there, and mom never drove. But, even then, the upped the distance ante for middle school ad beyond. I did walk about 2 miles, and in the winter/rain it sucked. What was just about as bad on some of those long walks was packs of verbally harrassing/intimidating h.s. boys. I hated it. And now, I see my kid walk a similar distance and I won't make her if it's crappy out. And she has the same feeling about the big boys; she goes well out of her way to avoid and mostly doesn't walk alone. Same as it ever was so far as I can see. |
Wendy
Supporter
Username: Wendy
Post Number: 2499
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 4:54 pm: |
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When I went to Junior High School (in NYC) I believe the rule was one mile or more and then you'd get bussing. I lived 11/12ths of a mile away or so I was told by my dad. I walked with friends but I still remember it being a very cold walk in the dead of winter. On the worst days, we would wear pants under our skirts (this was in the old days when girls were not allowed to wear pants in school) and take them off upon arrival. I could see different social situations where it would be uncomfortable to walk, especially alone. |
Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 2795
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 9:21 pm: |
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Lord, I remember the pants thing, too. Or, leggings that matched your coat. What a pill it was to be a girl then from point of view of dress codes. No pants, always a slip, no sneakers. Yep, for girls sometimes walking alone is just a little much. Kinda like for some women walking past some kinds of construction guys. In any case, I'm all for physical fitness, walking, biking etc. But I do think the expected distances are much, and many kids' parents just end up arranging rides, so there goes that rationale. |
spw784
Supporter
Username: Spw784
Post Number: 899
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 11:14 pm: |
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Wendy, different states probably have different rules for distance.
According to Board Policy #8600 - Transportation:
" The Board will provide transportation to and from school for public and nonpublic school pupils in grades Kindergarten through 8 who live more than two (2) miles from the school they attend and in grades 9 through 12 who live more than two and a half (2.5) miles from the school they attend, as determined in N.J.A.C. 6A:27- 1 et seq. "
"If the District assigns a student to attend a school outside his or her home area and the school is more than one
mile from the student’s home, the student is eligible for transportation provided by the District. The District
makes such assignments to maintain the pairing of Jefferson and Marshall Elementary Schools and to provide a
service or program only offered at a specific school, including but not limited to the ESL program and the
Demonstration Program at Seth Boyden.
The District may approve a parent or guardian’s request to transfer a student to a school outside the student’s
home area, but the District will not provide transportation.
A shuttle bus service is provided between South Mountain and the Annex. Kindergarten and first grade
students in the South Mountain area may walk to South Mountain and ride the shuttle to the Annex. Students in grades 2-5 may walk to the Annex and ride the shuttle to South Mountain. "
Also re: Hazardous Route busing:
"ADDENDUM – Effective November 17, 2003
As of the date of this addendum, the Township of South Orange Village, Department of Public Safety, ha
specified the following routes a hazardous for children waking to Marshall and South Mountain Schools.
1. The route from Montrose area to Marshall School along Montrose Avenue to Grove Road.
2. The route from Montrose area to Marshall School along Vose Avenue to Raymond Avenue to Grove
Road.
3. The route to South Mountain School along Irvington Avenue to South Orange Avenue.
4. The route to South Mountain School along 3rd Street to South Ridgewood Road to South Orange
Avenue.
" |
Wendy
Supporter
Username: Wendy
Post Number: 2500
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 11:34 pm: |
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spw784, thanks. I am in fact aware that each state has different rules and actually am familiar with our district's rules. I was just putting my walk to JHS in context. I think it was the first time that I had really understood that fractions (11/12) count so much! |
sac
Supporter
Username: Sac
Post Number: 3456
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 6:54 am: |
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The 2/2.5 mile rule is the state rule. I suspect that busing for special needs kids (ESL, also?) may also be covered by the state rules, but I'm not sure. Districts may offer courtesy busing for students who live closer, as SO/M does for Marshall-Jeff and Seth Boyden students as well as between South Mountain and the Annex and perhaps some other situations. (per the policy spw posted above) and as Millburn apparently does for the 1-2 mile radius. As I understand it, if courtesy busing is offered by a district, then other state rules kick in, such as the requirement to provide busing for private school students, etc.
This issue has been fairly quiet for the last couple of years, but it is certainly a hot button at times, because transportation costs are very high and increasing.
When the initial (very liberal) courtesy busing for Seth Boyden was cut back a few years ago, I thought about trying to organize a "walking school bus" type of program for our neighborhood. But most of the affected families elected to drive their children instead and my children actually did get bus service in the end. (We live right inside the 1-mile border, .95 miles from the school actually, so once they worked out the bus routes, a few more children got to fill up the remaining few spaces on the bus.) |
spw784
Supporter
Username: Spw784
Post Number: 901
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 7:25 am: |
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I didn't post the special needs/ESL, etc, rules but here they are, as per district policy 8600.
Policy #8670, specifically deals with transportation of disabled pupils.
from 8600:
"The Board will transport pupils certified by the school physician as temporarily disabled and in need of such
services, regardless of the distance between their home and school.
The Board will transport pupils with special needs in accordance with NJSA 18A:39-1 et seq., Policy No. 8670
and in accordance with their Individualized Education Program (IEP).
"
From 8670 -
The Board of Education shall provide transportation services for pupils with educational disabilities as
required by law and dictated by the pupil's educational needs and physical welfare. The Board will
provide the transportation specified as a related service in the program of Special Services approved
for an educationally disabled pupil. Such transportation will conform to the pupil's Individualized
Education Program (IEP) and the transportation requirements described by the Child Study Team or
prescribed by the school physician. Transportation to a placement outside this district will conform to
the school calendar of the receiving school, except that in the event of inclement weather, decisions
regarding transportation to outside placements will be made by the District.
The transportation of an educationally disabled pupil may include such special equipment, services of
aides, and arrangements for the pupil's mobility within the school building as set forth in the pupil’s
IEP. When necessary for the pupil's welfare, the case manager will provide the transportation
coordinator and driver with specific information about the pupil.
(There is some more info about transportation out of state placements... but I figured that was too far off the topic at hand).
I think that transportation of ESL pupils would be covered under the " if your child is assigned to a school outside of their home area, and lives more than 1 mile... etc" |
busymom
Citizen
Username: Busymom
Post Number: 16
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 6:07 pm: |
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why not encourage bike riding? |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14463
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 6:11 pm: |
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Great idea. Watch how it will be shot down. Parents are so fearful. Actually, given NJ drivers, there is rational reason to fear. But I do let my daughter ride to MMS. She doesn't do it often, though. She likes walking home with her friends, and the ride up the hill is pretty vigorous!
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Joanne G
Citizen
Username: Joanne
Post Number: 150
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 10:16 am: |
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Wodonga, (in the Aussie State of Victoria) where I work with one of my jobs, has several Walking Buses that follow the Safety House network. We also have a school system that mainstreams kids with disabilities as well as embraces schools that specialise in teaching for kids with special needs. If you want details on how we incorporate all needs into the Walking Bus network, I'm happy to provide contact details for relevant city and parent organisers.
FWIW we live in an area that is just above snowing temps in winter and is blazing hot in summer. All volunteers who work with children must pass police checks before starting their service, and must be trained in various disciplines including safety & risk management, first aid etc. There are strict codes on how Bus agreements are established. I have heard that some kids may accompany the Bus on their bikes or skateboards. Our system has been working for a couple of years, quite successfully |
spw784
Supporter
Username: Spw784
Post Number: 904
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 6:32 pm: |
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re: Bicycle Use by Pupils - Policy # 5514:
"The Board prohibits the operation or possession of scooters, skateboards, and in-line skates, on
school grounds, and on school buses.
The Board will permit the use of bicycles, by pupils in grades six through twelve in accordance with
district rules provided such pupils present written parental approval, and have been granted
permission by the building principal.
The Superintendent shall develop and disseminate regulations for the operation and parking of
vehicles on school grounds. Permission to operate a vehicle on school grounds may be revoked for a
pupil's failure to observe rules.
The Board will not be responsible for any vehicle that is lost, stolen, or damaged. "
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Joanne G
Citizen
Username: Joanne
Post Number: 152
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 9:30 am: |
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spw784, when a bicycle or skateboard (for example) is used on an Australian Walking School Bus, what is meant is that the student involved is actually riding to school with the walking team, not walking the entire distance. Obviously different places have different school rules - in fact, our schools are run totally differently and it would take way too long to try to explain half the differences here. We don't have School Boards as you know them!! (They sound way too weird for laid-back Aussies who don't handle authority-figures too well)
Our Walking Buses (but not our schools) are coordinated by the local City Council - which also coordinates the school crossing 'lollipop' guards and the Safety Houses schemes. It foots the bills for recruitment, police checks, insurance policies, risk management and safety training, and any equipment. It also coordinates with the State government's policy and implementation teams for related programs so that statewide all programs have the same practices, standards and alerts.
There are set ratios of 'passengers' to driver & conductor (adult at rear of Bus) and helpers in the middle of the Bus. As we allow for diversity and inclusion of all abilities, we also allow for a variety of mobility styles which means that mobility aids need to be included in Walking Buses. Some require assistance from another person (usually an adult), some require manual assistance by the traveller and some are motorised.
Hope this helps. |
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