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Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5251
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 3, 2006 - 7:12 pm: | 
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Exactly Bajau! The female teacher who had not one, but two children with her student who was 13 the first time ended up getting married to the kid when seh got out of jail. IMHO adults who feel the need to sleep with children young enough to be their own children have a screw or two loose. |
Nohero
Supporter
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 5475
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Saturday, June 3, 2006 - 7:45 pm: |
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JTA - You wrote something earlier in this thread, which sums it up well.
"The teacher is supposed to be the adult."
That's the bottom line. |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 450
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, June 3, 2006 - 7:53 pm: |
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Hey Just is nohero who I think it is??? |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5260
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 2:44 am: |
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Bajou-
MM? No. I thought the same thing when I first saw his posts. Finally got up the nerve to ask. I know for sure they aren't the same person because the Nohero posting on MOL and the other half of Nohero went to a couple of concerts with some other MOLers and me.
It is pretty funny to see the name though.  |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5261
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 2:56 am: |
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Glock-
Don't know how I missed you Friday post at 3:19pm. In response to your comment at the end of you post:
"She is certainly not as much a "victim" of Trias' failure, but of the failure of all of us who saw the situation and merely laughed and shrugged."
First off you and your friends should not blame yourself. Secondly, If the students were as aware of this situaiton and joked about it as much as you and some of the others in the thread imply; then you can bet your bottom dollar chances are other teachers were also aware of the situation. Surely one of them had to have pulled the teaccher aside and spoke to him. If things were as bad as some have said, then the teacher should have gone to the princiapal, guidance counselor or whoever is in charge of the high school and said something. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5262
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 3:29 am: |
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Let's take this out of the high school for a second. Can any of you honestly say if a 16 year old (boy or girl) met a 40 something year old adult at Borders or Starbucks or the community pool even; became friendly with the person and maybe 6 months later had sex with this person, you'd have no problem with it? Would you allow your 16 year old to be involved with a 40 something year old adult?
I feel the most sympathy for the young lady. I think it's a shame people are trying to blame the 'victim,' her parents and her upbringing. I'm not sure if some of the posters on MOL posting about the young lady's reputation are classmates or adults. If you are adults and knew this young lady had problems, why the blazes didn't YOU do something to help her? Why didn't YOU call the school? Why didn't YOU reach out to a child some have said was 'desperately seeking attention?'
I've given up tying to point out some posters are forgetting the teacher was old enough to be this young lady's father and because he was the adult, HE should have known better. It doesn't matter one iota what they young lady may or may not have done. I think there are some people who chose not to see things that way because they'd rather blame a 16 year old. If they were to see the situation for what it is, they would have to accept this teacher is not the great person they thought he was. That he has serious problems if he finds himself attracted to children more then half his age.
I was in Bunny's earlier tonight and there was a party of maybe 10-15 sitting in the area in the back. There were several young children and a few teenagers in this group. I'm sure some of them read MOL because they started to talk about this incident and what had been said on MOL. They were saying how it was the girl's fault because she came on the teacher blah blah blah. It was actually said the girl got what she deserved. I was so sickened by what they were saying I couldn't finish eating my food.
Hopefully a lesson can be learned from all of this.... |
kathy
Citizen
Username: Kathy
Post Number: 1302
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 8:53 pm: |
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As far as Why didn't the teacher ask for help with this student: I just want to point out that for much of the school year while this young lady was obsessing over Mr. Trias and telling all her friends what she planned to do with him when he got back, he was not in school at all--he was in Iraq (his second tour of duty, I believe, with the Air National Guard since 9/11). Exactly what was he supposed to do about it from there? |
Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 601
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 9:54 pm: |
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Again, I think you come back to parents dealing, or rather not dealing, with their teenage kids sexuality. Clarity, values, moral compass kind of stuff?
My sense is that to some of you it would make a difference if it was a 19 year old female college student and a 40 year old male college professor. Would it?
How about reversing the genders?
Some of you on the other hand seem to think that a theoretical middle-aged guy (not refering to this teacher, but in general), going through, say, a mid-life crisis, or a "Lolita" jones can keep that clear head and moral perspective close to sainthood when confronted with temptation?
Can everyone always not screw up their lives and that of others? I mean, how many adults are in 12 step and other programs?
How many sleezes do you think your kids will encounter in life, in all different kinds of situations? You can't rely on someone's adulthood anymore when it comes to expectations of ironclad moral or ethical behavior.
Best to have your kids prepared for real life IMHO.
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Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5270
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 9:57 pm: |
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Kathy-
If you knew about this at the time and you are an adult who did nothing, then you need to take some of the blame for what happened. Why is it those who defend the teacher can't see there is something very wrong with a man in his 40's being attracted to a child? Yes, a child!!! Even though she was 16, she is still considered a child, though my 16 year old niece would think differently.
I can't believe people say on one hand the young lady had problems, then on the other hand they blame her for what happened. Where is the outrage this adult took advantage of her 'supposed problems'? Would you still be saying the same things if this were your daughter? I'm sorry, I believe if it happened once, it most likely happened before with another child. You don't just all of a sudden become attracted to children.
I don't know this teacher, and I understand he did two tours of duty in Iraq; but that doesn't mean he still can't be a lowlife. Maybe being in Iraq effected his thinking. Who knows.
It's a shame the adults with the group in Bunny's Saturday night decided to blame the young lady instead of telling the teenagers with them how wrong it is no matter what the excuse, for a man in his 40's to have sex with a student. |
kathy
Citizen
Username: Kathy
Post Number: 1303
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 11:20 pm: |
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JTA, I did not know about this at the time, I only heard about it afterward from my daughter, who had already graduated but heard through the grapevine. The girl had been talking for months about what she planned to do, and then at some point bragged that she had done it. I don't think that most people even believed her, but someone did enough to report it. I was as sickened as anybody to learn that there was apparently some truth in it. I agree that there is no excuse for it. |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 471
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 11:56 pm: |
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JTA you know I am totally on your page about guys like that but I heard something very unsettling over the weekend. It seems that the young lady had stated after the fact to some friends that she never actually did have sex with him. Did he admit he did? Well it is all grapevine stuff but it would be horrible if he didn't do it?? |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5274
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 6:54 am: |
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Kathy-
I'm sorry then for saying you should take part of the blame then.
Bajou-
I'm guessing it's just a rumor the young lady has no said it didn't happen. The teacher plea bargained. So ***something*** had to have happened. If it didn't, he would have taken his chances with a jury.
Remember the Glen Ridge incident back in the late 80's? I'm pretty sure you were in South Orange then. The young lady involved in that case attempted to recant after she was threatened by friends of the scum who violated her. If the CHS student is no saying nothing happened, perhaps it's because she and her family are being threatened? I think I remember hearing last year other students were trying to intimidate her.
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Virtual It Girl
Citizen
Username: Shh
Post Number: 4540
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 7:00 am: |
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I haven't posted about this but I am very torn. I do think what the teacher did was wrong, but perhaps he was suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrome. His second tour of duty in Iraq???
Also, I remember a high-school acquaintance (Pippi, a year younger than we are sang in SING, initials were BB) who bragged about sleeping with the Yearbook advisor/Photography teacher (who also was around 40 and had married a former student from another HS in her early 20's).
Truth is, 16 year old girls can be very determined to get what they want sexually, especially if they are not getting other things in their lives. I think this was another notch on her belt and she probably needs a lot of help.
I think yes, the teacher should not have had sex with this student. That was very inappropriate. However, I think mandatory counseling for both teacher and student would be more beneficial than jail time.
Obviously most posters will disagree with me. |
Peter G. Magic
Citizen
Username: Pmagic
Post Number: 128
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 7:05 am: |
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JTA, remember the whole affair with Buttafucho and Fisher? I always thought it was completely his fault. He still deserves most of the blame. But if you have seen her recently, now grown up, in TV interviews she was a prostitute back then to earn money for drugs. You have no idea what an adolescent is capable of and she deserves blame too. That is not saying that he isn't mostly to blame but you seem to be totally exonerating her from this situation. If you had a daughter she would get away with so much! |
Peter G. Magic
Citizen
Username: Pmagic
Post Number: 129
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 7:13 am: |
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And as far as her needing counseling, they BOTH needed help. It is a wonder that he didn't blame post-traumatic stress. Too many of our soldiers have mental disorders after serving in Iraq and never get any treatment. But there is no way he should have gone back to the classroom in the mental condition he was in at the time. He seems to have had a good record prior to this incident. Was he never put in this position before or did the war affect him mentally? |
Phenixrising
Citizen
Username: Phenixrising
Post Number: 1708
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 8:30 am: |
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haven't posted about this but I am very torn. I do think what the teacher did was wrong, but perhaps he was suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrome. His second tour of duty in Iraq???
Virtual It Girl
I was thinking the same thing. However, it doesn't excuse his actions and as Peter stated, perhaps he should not have been in the classroom.
Another thought, 16 year old girls are more advanced these days (dued to the MTV's, internet, videos, et al) than say the "Brady Bunch" years? They BOTH should seek help.
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Virtual It Girl
Citizen
Username: Shh
Post Number: 4541
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 9:35 am: |
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Peter & Phenix, I agree with both of you. I mentioned above I thought both needed counseling.
"I think yes, the teacher should not have had sex with this student. That was very inappropriate. However, I think mandatory counseling for both teacher and student would be more beneficial than jail time."
I say this as the mother of three daughters. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5278
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 9:57 am: |
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VIT
I think most people will agree with you. It's me, who is not in sync with how most of the other posters are thinking.
Peter
Yes I remember JB and AF. Another twisted story. You don't think Joey influenced her in some way to shoot his wife? I think AF was one mixed up kid and Joey loved the attention he got from her. He got away with trying to have his wife killed and she ended up in jail for it.
It is highly unlikely any child of my would get away with much. As it is I'm the one who usually finds my nieces blogs and chew their ears off for some of the things they do. I'm not naive I see what kids are exposed to nowadays and I see how teenagers act. I have nieces who are almost 21, almost 18, two who just turned 17, and one who just turned 16.
One nephew is 19 another 15. The rest of them are under the age of ten.
I did say though in my Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 9:57 pm: Maybe being in Iraq messed the teacher up. Would you be as accepting of what happened if you had a daughter and someone did this to her? I'm giving up in this thread. None of us are going to change anyone else's way of thinking about this situation. |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4345
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 10:23 am: |
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Somebody should have told the girl's parents that she needed help. I can imagine the dialogue now.
Guidance Counselor: Hello, Mrs. Parent, this is Mr. Guidance Counselor.
Parent: Hello Mr. Guidance Counselor. How are you?
Guidance Counselor: Well, I have a bit of a problem. Word on the street is that your daughter is a bit assertive and wants to lay one of our teachers.
Parent: expletives, not possible, expletives, school's fault, expletives, teacher is a predator. |
Virtual It Girl
Citizen
Username: Shh
Post Number: 4542
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 10:30 am: |
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Right, and obviously this is a big problem in today's society. No one wants to take responsibilities for their actions, or lack of, or have their children take blame for wrong doing.
How many parents do you know who act like "not MY child"...I can tell you I know PLENTY. |
Claflin Kennerly
Citizen
Username: 2cents
Post Number: 24
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 10:53 am: |
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I guess they would have jumped to the right conclusion after all, huh?
But really, do you think the parents would have been that "in the dark" about their daughter if all the grapevine rumours are true? |
Phenixrising
Citizen
Username: Phenixrising
Post Number: 1709
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 11:08 am: |
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YUP,
Some of these parents are in SERIOUS denial. You know, the "not My child" syndrome. |
Virtual It Girl
Citizen
Username: Shh
Post Number: 4544
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 11:28 am: |
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Phenix, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
I do think it's possible for parents to turn a blind eye to their kids' wrongdoings or problems. Kids can act differently with their parents/familes than they do amongst their peers too.
I'm not trying to put the blame on the parents, or the girl. I just think that all parties involved were wrong and need counseling. |
Phenixrising
Citizen
Username: Phenixrising
Post Number: 1710
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 12:18 pm: |
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Virtual It Girl
My response was not directed to girl involved, but just saying in general that there ARE parents who turn-a-blind eye and hope the problem goes away.
There are some parents who are in serious denial on their kids conduct. Here's one example of my own sister's experience with a pupil. This student was kicked out of 2 schools before she came to the Middle School where my sister taught. She was involved in several physical altercations before. This student was then involved in another physical altercation at her new school. My sister broke-up the fight and at the same time the pupil pushed my sister into some desks. Before the girl could attack again, my sister was able to restrain her till help came and before she could hurt others, my sister and herself.
This case went to court. The parents claim it was all my sisters fault and swore their kid did NOT have a behavioral problem and my sister pushed first. Thank goodness through proof of her OWN records (past expulsions)and student witnesses, the judge found no wrong doing on my sisters behalf. The parents really played-it-up in court.
Another example happened at an afterschool program in our district some years ago. A child was caught stealing a few times and when the parents were told, their response was, "oh such & such is going through a phase." WHAT?
I do agree tho, some kids act differently around their parents than their peers. Sort of the "Eddie Haskel" (from Leave it to Beaver) type.
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Claflin Kennerly
Citizen
Username: 2cents
Post Number: 25
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 12:24 pm: |
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VIG,
I agree on one level, but we just still have to recognize who the adult was in this mess. Yes, sixteen year old girls can be something else, but she is just that, a girl. She has problems, but he was the adult here. At forty-something, and being a teacher (an occupation that puts him in "harm's way, so to speak, everyday), he should have known better. So I still put the majority of the blame on the man and not the child. But I do agree that they both need help.
On the other hand, if this were a female teacher and a sixteen year old boy, I doubt it would have even gone to the police. Society does have double standards and the crime would be equally wrong. And in my opinion a 16 year old boy is less mature than a 16 year old girl.
It is a sad situation and I don't know who I feel most sorry for- the family of the teacher or the family of the girl - what do parents do to get this kid's life together? From the hostility of the town and other students at the school, can she even complete her years at Columbia? Even with counseling, can she get past her reputation now?
They all need help and a new start, both the teacher and the student. Obviously, those who know the teacher do not feel that he should be labeled a pedaphile, so can he get past this?
What a mess... |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 479
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 12:38 pm: |
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Get real .... I have a sixteen year old and if any of you really think you know the half of what is going on in their lives then you are fools.
My daughter and I talk and she is a really great girl. She has drive in school, she has great friends and sticks to her guns (and does not crumble under peer pressure). I am friends with my daughters friends parents, I know where she is at all times, I call to speak to the adult when sleepovers are arranged. I know when one friend fights with another and when they fix it and are best friends again. But I also know that there are some things my daughter is not going to tell me and I just have to keep my eyes and ears open. A tip to all whose kids are heading for the teenage phase. Know your childs friends parents, get together with them and talk openly about things. Make a deal with them... if they should hear something from their kid about your child that they feel you should know then call right away and the same reverse. You don't rat each others kids out but you know what's going on.. And another thing...offer rides, especially the late ones and drive and listen to what the kids in the car talk about...
Hey why should they be different then us. We didn't tell our parents everything either...if we had most of us would have never made it to adulthood. I know I wouldn't have LOL |
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