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Message |
    
Shawna
Citizen
Username: Lucies_mom
Post Number: 127
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, June 3, 2006 - 9:47 pm: | 
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Anybody notice the new "business" by Costco on RT. 22?
It's called Shake A Paw. It's the most disgusting thing I have ever seen. They sell mill puppies. Some of the puppies were lying in thier own feces, some had slight injuries, and many were too young to be separated from their moms.
My prediction: the shelters are going to be full of these dogs in 6 mo, when these pups aren't cute anymore, haven't house trained themselves and have chewed up all the furniture and shoes.
It's too easy to buy a life.
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anon
Supporter
Username: Anon
Post Number: 2745
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, June 3, 2006 - 10:05 pm: |
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You should call the ASPCA or the local health officer. It must be in either Union or Springfield. |
ess
Citizen
Username: Ess
Post Number: 2140
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 3, 2006 - 10:27 pm: |
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I really wish I hadn't opened this thread and read the first post.
This breaks my heart.
Shawna - you are absolutely right: how can the people who set this up live with themselves? It seems incredibly cruel. |
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 1071
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, June 3, 2006 - 10:31 pm: |
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Yeah get them arses shut down right away.
And more importantly get those dogs checked out and to good homes |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 454
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, June 3, 2006 - 11:30 pm: |
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Dear All:
Please do not purchase any of these puppies!!! I know this sounds terrible but the more puppies they sell the more the mills sell. I have seen the mills and they are truly toture chambers. Most females never make it to their 4th year of life. They are get artificially inseminated as soon as their body allows it and from then on they live in small cages. They never get out, they are fed and that's about it. Once the puppies are born they are allowed to stay for a couple of weeks just so they won't all die right away. Lots of them do since the mothers are stressed out, unhealthy and mental wrecks. After two weeks they take the puppies put her medically in heat and impregnate her again. I have seen these dogs...no hair, bent legs (cage legs) and crazed eyes. It is truly a torture chamber. The puppies get taken way to early and get shipped to these puppie stores and get sold for top dollar breed dogs. Oh they are the breed but since the operation of mills is illegal they rarely get outside dogs but just keep breeding within the same families. The genetic defaults these dogs have are horrific. Hip dysplesia, eye problems, character issues....I have a dog that I rescued from a store called "Puppies 4 U" which used to be on RT 22. The first three months cost me $2,000.00 to fix her mangeld paw which was stuck in the bottom of the cage for days without anybody noticing. Needless to say all the people that came in and looked at her tried to lift her from the cage to play with her but her paw was so swollen from being caught between the grate that she started bitting anybody that reached for her. I ended up taking her after the healthdepartment shut the guy down but the dog was a biting nightmare for months and she was only a pup. It took almost a year to house train her because she had such emotional issues and seperation anxiety. She ripped holes in every carpet in every room in my house when she freaked out. There were many a days when I was at my wits end with her and I am a very very experienced dog owner. Lilly is now five years old and is our much loved pet but it took years to balance this dog out. Support your local shelter the Jersey Animal Coalition right here in South Orange and adopt a dog from there if you want to rescue an animal otherwise please do not support these mills by buying a dog from there. Call the health department with any issues, I know I will go there tomorrow and check the place out and take pictures so there is proof. That is the best way to shut them down. Please do not buy these dogs!!!
Take a minute and sign the petition if you want to make a difference:
http://www.petitiononline.com/02FFARO/petition.html
And if you want to read more fact about mills go to (not for the faint hearted):
http://www.dogsadversereactions.com/puppymills.html
By the way Pennsylvania now breeds more dogs than any state on the east coast and the concentration of puppy mills in Lancaster County is unparalleled anywhere in the country. In the heart of Amish and Mennonite country, thousands of puppies in are crowded in locked buildings that used to be barns, chicken coops or trailers and have been crudely converted into kennels.
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Calliope
Citizen
Username: Calliope
Post Number: 320
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 12:17 am: |
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Just to add to what Bajou said, if I may, the governor of Pennsylvania is attempting to crack down on this situation. Here is another petition site with some more interesting information:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/659306722?z00m=87289&z00m=87289<l=11 49393284
But Pennsylvania is only part of the problem.The Amish etc. puppy mills exist in Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, and many other states. As soon as a puppy mill closes down in one state, the owners (unless they are prosecuted, and few are) simply move to another, more hospitable state, and with the help of their community,continue their operations there.
An additional problem is the brainwashing of the American public,and the celebrity trend setters. Now there is a boom in "Designer dogs" such as "Labradoodles","Puggles","Cockapoos" etc. These are ,affectionately ---mutts. Any New Jersey rescue group or shelter has more than enough lovable mixed breeds than they can handle.
Yet they are now being bred in the puppymills at the same rate and in the same deplorable conditions as the so-called "pedigreed"puppies available in pet stores. This is a national disgrace that can only be cured through education and hard work of dedicated animal lovers.
AHEM--OK, I am stepping off the Soapbox now (and going back to Word Association where I belong)
Calli |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 456
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 1:25 am: |
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To all who are thinking of adopting an animal:
Everybody loves puppies and kittens but remember there are thousands of adult dogs and cats in shelters that make wonderful pets. There are alot of pluses to adopt an adult animal. Most are housebroken and out of the destructive stage. An adult animal is so grateful to be rescued and will bond with you just as quickly as a puppy. The few that are lucky enough to be in a non kill shelter still face a lifetime of lonelyness, frustration and stress. Just take a moment and look at them and don't just pass them by on your way to the see the little ones...remember they were puppies/kittens too once.
Here is a link to the JAC (Jersey Animal Coalition) website:
http://www.jaconline.org/s1/index.html
and to a national shelter database site where you can look for any dog any age any breed to adopt:
http://www.petfinder.com/
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Lucy
Supporter
Username: Lucy
Post Number: 3965
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 9:26 am: |
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It makes me so angry to think that anyone can be this cruel to a sweet defenseless animal. How in the world do they sleep at night? |
Calliope
Citizen
Username: Calliope
Post Number: 325
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 9:52 am: |
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In one word, Lucy, $MONEY$}
This is a very lucarative endeavor---very low overhead because there are virtually no vet services provided for any of the animals.When the bitches stop producing adequate saleable litters, they are not humanely destroyed, they are frequently taken out in a field and shot. For some of those animals the killing field may be the first time in their miserable little lives that they felt grass under their feet. Little is expended on food and basic shelter.
I could go on and describe the incredibly disgusting and horrific conditions these animals endure, but it outrages me too much, and it is not a tale for the squeamish.
Don't even get me started on the mares who are raised on farms owned by the pharmaceutical companies, kept pregnant and their urine collected to produce drugs for hormone replacement therapy.
People get rich on the backs of companion animals. It is a scandal and a shame.
Calli |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 739
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 10:04 am: |
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It is obvious the people on this board CARE about the quality of life of all living creatures. Unfortunately as Calliope points out, this all comes down to money....and there are people out there who will happily do this kind of reprehensible thing to make a buck. I can only hope that any animal bought from these kind of places goes to a good home where they will have a much better future, as opposed to the pitiful start to their lives.
There should be laws against this.... |
las
Citizen
Username: Las
Post Number: 1815
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 11:27 am: |
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Bajou and Calli:
I'm not being snyde here, but please, tell me what signing online petitions will do? I've been so jaded by all the online crap being circualted I assume everything is false or worthless.
Are puppy mills like any other type of societal change: it's about community involvement not passing new legistlation? What can WE do now that we know there is a location minutes from our own front doors? A hundred dollars? An hour a week? I'll give it or do it. Just tell me what WE can actually do right now to get rid or this place, save the puppies, and ruin their prospects of relocation.
Thanks - Lynn |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5264
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 11:31 am: |
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If my guess is right it's the same place that has been closed down at least twice. It sounds like they just keep relocating. They use to be in Scothc Plains and then further down in Watchung. Call the ASPA and report them. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5265
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 11:33 am: |
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Bajou-
That sounds like the place that was near Bowcraft! Thank goodness at least one of those puppies got adopted by a true animal lover! |
Calliope
Citizen
Username: Calliope
Post Number: 327
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 1:04 pm: |
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I'll give it or do it. Just tell me what WE can actually do right now to get rid or this place, save the puppies, and ruin their prospects of relocation.
Excellent question, Las, and one I wish I had an answer to. This is a nationwide problem which deserves a nationwide solution. Yes, it can be legislated away,but it needs to begin on a county wide or municipal level and snowball. Certain municipalities (and I believe Scotch Plains may have been one) have put ordinances in effect which make it impossible for pet stores which sell live dogs and cats to operate profitably in the town. This is a grass roots solution, that only puts a band-aid on the problem,because the stores simply move to a neighboring town.
A few years ago , Governor McGreevey established the Animal Welfare Task Force which was comprised of non-state employees from all walks of life, who were dedicated to animal welfare.. There were some initiatives established to develop legislation that would forbid importation of animals from out of state for sale in state. It was supposed work something like an embargo. This was actually favored by legitimate breeders in New Jersey. I have not followed this recently, but I think it has been completely abandoned. With the Corzine budget cuts the Animal Welfare Task Force has been dismantled and some of the personnel retained, but subsumed into the Department of Health. One woman now has to respond to all the pet store complaints for the entire state.
The large animal welfare societies, such as HSUS and the SPCA have sections dedicated to puppy mill reform. Even on this board you will read differing opinions as to how effective they are.
New Jersey has a few 501 (c)organizations that cover the entire State and have political action committees.One such organization is the AWFNJ.org(Animal Welfare Federation of New Jersey), and another is NJARA (New Jersey Animal Rights Association). Check out both their websites and see if philosophically you agree with them.
I believe Massachusetts is on the cutting edge of working to eliminate the sale of puppy mill puppies, and New Jersey has been looking to them as a model. But, again it all goes back to money.
My personal belief is that education of the public as a whole, and children in particular, is vital to raise awareness of these very serious issues. Children have played an integral part in raising conciousness about the dangers of smoking, and, while it took some time , I foresee the same sort of sea change if children can learn about animal cruelty, and in particular puppy mills, and influence their parents to make sensitive choices when it comes to bringing a pet into the family.
When I hit the Lottery, I will be spearheading many changes in the laws of New Jersey (first---and then---the WORLD!!!! )to regard animals as sensient beings, not as property. When that change in attitude amongst the legislature and judiciary happens, all the other animal issues will be easier to conquer.
Ooops! I think I broke the soapbox!
Calli
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Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 460
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 2:38 pm: |
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Hey Calli let's get together and see what we can do. Less if you want to do something print out flyiers from the puppymill site and ddistrubute them outside of the Puppie store. The online petitions are better then nothing. I have worked with the HSUS and found out a couple of things I just didn't like. The HSUS of America does not support local shelters with the money they collect for donation but spend it almost exclusively on lobbying efforts. Please know that when you donate to them. The HSUS is also being investigated in Louisianna. I went down to Katrina and worked at Lamar Dixon with the people from the HSUS. The volunteers were incredible but some of the permanent staff got very used to the good life of working for a gigantic organization that has not been look into for a while. If you want to support an incredible organization that does wonderful work for all kinds of animals then check this out:
http://www.ruralareavet.org/
Yes it is a part of the Human Society but it's run seperately by Dr. ERic Davis who is probably one of the coolest people I have ever met. His dedication to the animals is incredible and let me tell you he is not afraid of questioning anybody and sticking out his own neck for the wellfare of animals. |
Calliope
Citizen
Username: Calliope
Post Number: 330
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 10:17 pm: |
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Bajou,
Thanks for the offer, but I am burnt out from long term animal rescue issues and fighting the system.
I will always keep a hand in(doing free-lance rescue), but I'm not up for a full-bore campaign right now. However, I would never discourage anyone from picking up the banner, because this is certainly a worthy cause.
Google: "Puppy mills breed misery" but be careful what you click on---this stuff is hard to take. A friend of mine just took into her rescue a puppy mill dog---she came with a chain emblazoned with a number not a name (I will just leave that there,and you can draw your own analogy) The poor baby was loaded with mammary tumors (a consequence of poor care, remaining unspayed and over bred)and her feet are malformed from standing on chicken wire her entire life. Her feet were also burned from the build up of her own waste beneath the cage.
And while understandably neurotic (she has never lived in a home before, and had minimal human contact)she is a sweet and loving little girl. And although my friend took her with the intention of rehabilitating her and adopting her out, I think Gracie(for she now has a name)will never leave my friend's home.
There are rescues who go into the mills and have to buy the dogs who have outlived their usefulness and are about to be shot. Philosophically, I am opposed to paying these monster millers ANYTHING, but it saves lives. If you would like to contribute to these specialized rescue groups---and believe me---they could use the $$ to continue the work, PL me and I will get the address for you to send a check. One rescue in particular that I know of, is a "one-man band" and this woman uses her own funds to help get dogs out of the puppy mills.
Just a word of caution if anyone decides to hand out fliers or protest at Shake a Paw or any other pet store. Make sure you don't run afoul of the law and local ordinances. Handing out fliers on private property can be a misdemeanor, as can papering windshields in the store parking lot. Probably the most useful thing any of us can do is spread the word. over and over to anyone who will listen , and particularly to those who won't.
Also,if anyone wants the contact information for the person to notify at the State Department of Health of the awful conditions at a particular store , PL me.
Calli
(What am I doing in Soapbox???? Back to the Virtual Cafe for me) |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 466
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 10:48 pm: |
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Well I went there today and there is no doubt they are puppy mill dogs. All the breeders seem to be coming from MO, AZ, KS. The set up is actually fairly nice. The cages are too small but they are fairly clean. The puppies have to stand on wire so alot of the puppies have sore paws. They are given something to sleep on but I did see alot of puppies that didn't look too healthy. I am always weary when you see stores that keep all the pups seperated cause that usually means they are nervous about spreading a desease like Parvo which could wipe out the entire store in a couple of days. They do not know where these puppies came from so they know to be careful not to keep them together. Some of these dogs are way too young to be seperated and it shows. Honestly the quality of the dogs is pretty •••••• on some of them so when I see price tags of 1,500 to 2,000 the people who buy them are getting totally riped off. Sadly I saw that some puppies are marked down for about $ 400.00 (marked down from $1,600) I don't know if it is because the puppy is getting too old or has shown some issues but I amd wondering what will happen to them. There must be close to 60 puppies in there and not one is over four months. I cannot imagine that they sell all the puppies all the time so I would really like to know where the puppies go to that are not sold. I hope and pray they are not sold to Labratories here in NJ cause that happens to alot of shelter dogs. |
Calliope
Citizen
Username: Calliope
Post Number: 333
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 11:16 pm: |
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Sadly I saw that some puppies are marked down for about $ 400.00 (marked down from $1,600) I don't know if it is because the puppy is getting too old or has shown some issues but I amd wondering what will happen to them. There must be close to 60 puppies in there and not one is over four months. I cannot imagine that they sell all the puppies all the time so I would really like to know where the puppies go to that are not sold. I hope and pray they are not sold to Labratories here in NJ cause that happens to alot of shelter dogs.
Unfortunately the puppies who are not sold are euthanized---a dirty little secret. I had a woman who used to give heads up to area rescues when puppies were not moving. She worked in a store in Bergen County and risked her job everytime she made a call. Sometimes the stores wrote the puppies off as a loss and gave them to the rescues, more often they demanded some below market price. Which made steam come out of my ears because those creeps shouldn't profit from the public's ignorance, and the desperation of the rescues to save them. Most of the puppies we took had kennel cough, worms,mange and other skin conditions, and congenital heart problems. I had a Basenji with such a cleft palate he had to be hand fed before it was surgically corrected (He was adopted in a heartbeat because it was a simple fix)
Go in as Jane Q. Public and ask the staff what happens to the puppies who are not sold---I'd be interested to hear the answers (lies)
More and more "sick puppy" cases are clogging up the courts. Because they have a sales receipt, the owners are compensated as they would be for a defective toaster. We need a Lemon Law for these Pet Shops.
Calli |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14590
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 12:40 pm: |
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Good point, Bajou. We adopted an adult cat and an adult dog. We missed the cute and fun baby stages, but we also skipped a lot of headaches, and we feel we were of more service to these animals this way.
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Alleygater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 2190
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 1:59 pm: |
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We got our dog when he was just 7 months old because TS wanted a puppy. I think she was saddened at first that we couldn't get an even younger dog. That is until we got the dog home and she remembered just how much work a puppy is. We both acknowledged this fact to each other. Luckily we only had to go through a few months before the puppy mellowed out a bit and became a more mature dog. I really wouldn't reccomend a puppy to many people. They are really hard work, and require a huge amount of love and patience. |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 485
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 3:46 pm: |
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Also please remember that most people are not home enough and although crate training has become a very acceptable I am not a fan of it at all. The puppies end up being locked up for 5 -7 hours or even more per day. That is not a well socialized and handled puppy. An adult dog will love you forever if you take him out of the cage and considering that he/she had to spend every hour of every day in a cage any amount of time with you is better.
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combustion
Citizen
Username: Spontaneous
Post Number: 64
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Monday, June 5, 2006 - 11:39 pm: |
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I've heard mention of the puppies in the store being too young to be separated. I haven't been to the store myself, but I do know that puppies (unlike kittens) can be separated at quite a young age and actually bond better to people if they are adopted out at six weeks. By eight weeks of age they have started bonding to the other dogs instead of people. These dogs will still make good pets, but will always miss their canine companionship.
Care should be taken when getting a new pet, no matter where the animal comes from. Remember, a lot of adult dogs and cats who end up in shelters are there because of behavioral problems. With time and patience these problems can often be overcome, but please don't adopt an adult animal thinking you're going to get the perfect housebroken pet, you will likely be disappointed. Be realistic in why the animal is there. Yes, there are times that a little old lady passed away leaving the perfect dog with no home, but these are the exceptions. I'm not trying to discourage people from adopting shelter pets, I'm just asking that they be realistic.
I have shelter animals. I have never adopted an animal out of a shelter that was not sick. Never. I've seen mange so bad that the dog was bald, ring-worm, kennel cough, fleas, ticks, hook worms, round worms, etc. I see this as a fact of life when adopting a shelter animal. It takes a lot of time, money and patience to fix up these animals. The love given back by the animal makes it worth it. Some of my pets have had very serious illnesses. The worst was a puppy adopted from a local shelter that I will not name here which had parvo-virus and became symptomatic and had to be quarantined at the animal hospital within 36 hours of entering my home, she later died. The shelter LIED about how long the dog was in the shelter and about her health history. She was there 24 hours,dogs must be held 7 days BY LAW. After numerous letters and threatening legal action I was finally able to be reimbursed for the veterinary bills (hundreds of dollars for the first night) but was told that I could never return to that shelter. |
Calliope
Citizen
Username: Calliope
Post Number: 340
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 6:30 am: |
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She was there 24 hours,dogs must be held 7 days BY
LAW.
This is not quite accurate. Stray animals must be held 7 days by law. Owner surrenders may be euthanized or adopted out before the ink is dry on the surrender papers.I am sorry,Combustion, that you had such a bad experience.
There are good shelters and there are overtaxed shelters, just like any other organization. That is why I urge potential pet owners to adopt from rescue groups. Most rescues provide vet care (sometimes breaking the bank on a single animal. The rescues take animals into homelike settings and can troubleshoot medical and behavioral problems. It offers the animal an oppotunity to become accustomed to living in a home setting,after the shock of the cages and noise in the shelter. Rescue volunteers go into the shelters, evaluate the animals and save their lives. But, like anything else, you need to do your homework when choosing a rescue group.
Calli
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Lucy Smith
Citizen
Username: Lucy123
Post Number: 163
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 10:04 am: |
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We got both of our children from People for Animals-a great rescue organization. They use foster homes like Calliope mentioned and all of their animals have a vet, are spayed/neutered and healthy/on meds when you get them. Our kittens' foster mom has been invaluable and the foster parents truly care about each and every animal they rescue. I couldn't imagine EVER buying a pet from a store-the rescue organizations are FANTASTIC and irreplaceable. They are our number one go to for our donated $$-money well spent each year. |
Calliope
Citizen
Username: Calliope
Post Number: 342
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 10:41 am: |
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On behalf of all Rescue volunteers---a HUG,and a HUGE THANK YOU!
Rescue is hard work,heart-breaking, dirty, smelly work, usually done on a shoestring, and extremely frustrating, because of the level of pointy-headed bureaucracy that must be endured. But you will NEVER find a more wonderful, more dedicated or passionate group of individuals who truly live their devotion to the animals and making their lives better. And it is always gratifying to hear the testimony of terrific adopters. Thank you Lucy, and please spread the word---foster homes are always needed (especially in kittn season) and all contributions to the rescue of your choice, will be gratefully accepted.
Calli} |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 805
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 11:41 am: |
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Calli
Can you pl me the info to send a donation? I have through the years had the honour of "being adopted by" 6 rescue cats. None of them less than 2 years old, and one was about 11! One was diabetic, one was totally blind in one eye and almost blind in the other. I cannot begin to tell you what a blessing it was to have these cats...
My youngest has asthma which stops us from even trying with animals right now..
The work you do is tremendously important - Thank you for being there.. |
Lucy Smith
Citizen
Username: Lucy123
Post Number: 164
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 11:42 am: |
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You are very welcome-we can not say enough great things about the rescue organizations we came upon in our search for our kitties  We tell anyone and everyone we can about our wonderful experiences and how great we feel about the fact they use FOSTERING instead of cages!!! The difference is HUGE in the animals you receive from these types of organizations. We would never use any other method of obtaining an animal. We brought our babies into our home over a year and a half ago and every time we stop by the rescue adoption days their foster mom not only remembers us and our names but also our two cuties, their names, their personalities and everything about them! It amazes me that she can remember all of that about each and every animal that comes through her home (and that number is staggering when she talks about it)! It is so nice to know that they were so well taken care of and truly loved prior to becoming the loves of our lives! |
Joe R.
Citizen
Username: Ragnatela
Post Number: 464
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 12:09 pm: |
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Puppy mills are not illegal in NJ, but keeping animals under inhumane conditions is. Where did this thread go? I thought the idea was to do something directly about a particularly abusive establishment on Route 22. Call the ASPCA or someone else who acts on this stuff. |
Calliope
Citizen
Username: Calliope
Post Number: 343
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 1:23 pm: |
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Joe,
I apologize for the thread drift.Animal cruelty laws are rarely enforced against businesses in New Jersey. I will allow you to draw your own conclusions as to why that is.
The ASPCA only enforces in New York. New Jersey has few enforcement options. The SPCA has branches in only certain counties and the State SPCA must cover the rest (Essex County does not, to my knowledge,have its own branch.)http://www.nj-ara.org/spca.html This is a herculean task, and the State SPCA has recently been underfire for systemic abuses, and is currently in a state of reorganization.
Local Boards of Health are beseiged with complaints, and do the best with what they have. As a rule, such complaints are not their first priority.
As I mentioned above, the State Department of Health has one woman who addresses these issues for the entire State.
Call the ASPCA or someone else who acts on this stuff.
Few agencies DO "act on this stuff"
Calli |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 503
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 2:38 pm: |
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Dear Joe R.: Puppie Mills are illegal in this state. Pet stores like that one are not..unfortunately. The ASPCA does not act on this stuff as it is a private organisation that has no legal inforcement power in NJ. The health department is the only place that can shut them down.
COMBUSTION:
I am not sure where you have gotten this totally incorrect information from but please research your sources again because it is totally wrong.
I am a certified and licensed vet tech, certified disaster responder who specializes in triage setups and have 25 years of full time/part time work experience in this field.
You wrote:
I've heard mention of the puppies in the store being too young to be separated. I haven't been to the store myself, but I do know that puppies (unlike kittens) can be separated at quite a young age and actually bond better to people if they are adopted out at six weeks. By eight weeks of age they have started bonding to the other dogs instead of people. These dogs will still make good pets, but will always miss their canine companionship.
A puppy should always stay a minimum of 8 weeks and a good breeder will prefer 10 weeks. There are several reasons for it. Dogs that continue nursing as long as possible (large breeds sometimes until 9 weeks) will receive the maximum calcium boost to handle their biggest growth spurt in height and weight by percentage which is between 12 and 16 weeks. Dogs who have been seperated too early are harder to housebreak, tend to have seperation anxiety and do not easily learn the basics of exeptable behavior like bite inhibition which should be taught by the mother/siblings since these lessons are much easier taught dog to dog then person to dog. Dogs that have been seperated to early are also much more likely to become loud dogs (barkers, whiners).
The following text is basic knowledge material for anybody who does Behavior Training or Modification:
Canine Socialization Period-21 to 49 Days (3 weeks to 7 weeks):
Pup learns he is a dog during this period. He must be kept with his littermates and bitch during this entire period. He will learn how to stop mother’s discipline by acting submissively. Do not wean puppies at this time however they may be supplemented at three weeks but it is left up to the bitch how much nursing is done. A puppy removed from its litter and bitch during this period may become overly noisy, a discipline problem, or a fighter. The mother is allowed as much time with the pups as she wants.
Fear Impact Subperiod -8 to 10 Weeks:
Experiences a puppy perceives as traumatic during this time are generalized and may affect him all his life. It is a fact that a dog is most likely to develop an avoidance response if subjected to physical or psychological trauma during these four weeks. Puppies should not be shipped during this period, elective surgery should be put off until the 12th week.
Seniority Classification Period - 12 to 16 Weeks:
Otherwise known as the “age of the cutting" teeth and apron strings during this period, the pup is trying to figure out who is boss. If still together, there is intense competition between littermates. All tests of strength between person and pup (such as tug of war) should be discontinued. All biting of human hands, clothing, or leash should be discouraged. By 16 weeks, the puppy’s emotional makeup fully formed.
Lack of learned "bite inhibition" is the number one reason why alot of young dogs under the age of 1 get dumped at the shelter. People get a puppy (way to early) the dog does not understand why he is being wacked on the head when he plays and nips to hard so he continues to do exactely that until he/she is big enough to nip and break skin. Then the dog gets dumped cause he/she is aggressive.
You wrote:
Care should be taken when getting a new pet, no matter where the animal comes from. Remember, a lot of adult dogs and cats who end up in shelters are there because of behavioral problems. With time and patience these problems can often be overcome, but please don't adopt an adult animal thinking you're going to get the perfect housebroken pet, you will likely be disappointed. Be realistic in why the animal is there. Yes, there are times that a little old lady passed away leaving the perfect dog with no home, but these are the exceptions. I'm not trying to discourage people from adopting shelter pets, I'm just asking that they be realistic.
Care should be taken when taking in any animal...That is pretty much the only thing we agree on. However if you spend some time with the dog/cat you want to adopt then you can already tell what type of personality you are dealing with.. submissive, dominant, fearful, bold, playful, quiet, playful etc. These traits are not fully evaluable until a puppy is 16 weeks so you really don't know what you are getting, especially when you buy from a pet store where it is not possible to see at least one of the parents or litter-mates. Most dogs are in the shelter because people move and can't take the dog, had a dog for years but the new girl/boyfriend is allergic/not a dog person or the new baby has asthma. Frankly mostly the animals get dumped because peoples lives change and they can no longer accomodate the pets needs
You wrote:
I have shelter animals. I have never adopted an animal out of a shelter that was not sick. Never. I've seen mange so bad that the dog was bald, ring-worm, kennel cough, fleas, ticks, hook worms, round worms, etc. I see this as a fact of life when adopting a shelter animal. It takes a lot of time, money and patience to fix up these animals. The love given back by the animal makes it worth it. Some of my pets have had very serious illnesses.
I have three dogs (two from the shelter and one puppy mill dog). I am not sure where you adopt your animals from but although it can happen that a young dog has puppy mange or worms an adult dog with mange should not be adopted out until the type of mange is diagnosed. What you fail to mention is that if you adopted a dog in that condition you were well aware of it because you can't miss it..that dog will look like hell. Mange in young dogs is not a big deal, as a matter of fact it is pretty much the norm for most puppies that where born from a stray dog. Even though kennel cough is easily treatable I again would like to know what shelter lets you adopt a dog with kennel cough if they know you have other dogs.
You wrote:
The worst was a puppy adopted from a local shelter that I will not name here which had parvo-virus and became symptomatic and had to be quarantined at the animal hospital within 36 hours of entering my home, she later died. The shelter LIED about how long the dog was in the shelter and about her health history. She was there 24 hours,dogs must be held 7 days BY LAW. After numerous letters and threatening legal action I was finally able to be reimbursed for the veterinary bills (hundreds of dollars for the first night) but was told that I could never return to that shelter.
I am actually quite familiar with your story here even though I am not employed by the shelter. I am first and foremost very sorry that she died since she was a lovely pup. The pup was surrendered by an individual after being fully vetted at a local animal hospital (not a stray and therefor not required to be held for 7 days). The copy of all shots was submitted by the hospital to the shelter. You adopted the dog a couple of days later. Parvo has an incubation period of 4 to 14 days. The puppy was given the parvo shot at the local animal hospital and either already had the virus or the shot brought on the virus which is a possibilty in a pup with a low immune system. You should have brought her to the vet that vetted her in the first place. However I don't know how the shelter is supposed to except responsibility for vetting care they did not give. You also do realize that any animal shelter survives by the hair of their chinny chin chin if they survive at all and that the veterinary costs are sometimes mindboggling. Dogs that need surgery after a hit an run or to fix bad hip or knees can cost a shelter easily $ 3,000.00 to $ 5,000.00 a pop. i would like to state again though that I am truly sorry for the loss of the puppy since she was a sweetheart. The shelter also offers free insurance for the fist month so unless you didn't sign her up you should have been reimbursed for some if not most of the cost anyway.
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combustion
Citizen
Username: Spontaneous
Post Number: 71
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 9:12 pm: |
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Bajou, I sent you a PL. I don't want to get into a catfight online (no pun intended) |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 516
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 9:15 pm: |
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Get my PL's at work so will answer tomorrow..ok
meow...no pun intendet either  |
Lucy Smith
Citizen
Username: Lucy123
Post Number: 174
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 9:21 pm: |
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Bajou and Calliope-I just wanted to let you know that I greatly respect you and your dedication to the cause. I know it is tiring and thankless work (mostly) and I just wanted to tell you that it is truly appreciated and recognized!!! |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 517
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 9:33 pm: |
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Dear Lucy:
Thank you for your kind words. Even though I can't speak for Calliope as I don't know her/him I am sure she/he feels the same. You are right it is tiring, frustrating and alot of times heartbreaking but I can tell you I have never felt it to be thankless. It just depends on were you look for the thanks. It is rarely found in the eyes of humans but almost always found in the eyes of the animals.
I also wanted to say a special thanks to Calliope. You are inspiring!
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Calliope
Citizen
Username: Calliope
Post Number: 346
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - 11:25 pm: |
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Lucy and Bajou,
awwwww
I am touched by the appreciation--and very grateful. But I am not worthy of such admiration-there are so many unsung rescue people, in the trenches with their sleeves rolled up--it is just something I do---sort of like breathing--animals are essential for my life,so I don't really think about it.(...and Bajou, I checked, I am a "she"---just like the little smiling cat to the left)
Now, we are going to start a mutual admiration society and the Joe R's of the MOL world are going to get annoyed.
Bajou, I want to thank you for responding to the rescue call in NOLA. I could not go---but we sent one of my friends' adult (and sadly, unemployed)daughter. Sarah sent back photos and kept a blog of the horrors she encountered,both of the human and animal variety.This made it very personal for me. Just by going there, you did an extraordinary thing. The really terrific thing about NOLA was the animal people,unlike the groups responsible for human lives, were prepared, after the tragic lesson of 9/11, and launched into action before FEMA realized that their own feet of clay were wet.
Considering the magnitude of the task, the animal welfare groups, all of whom worked together, performed miracles of rescue and reunion. As a result of that, inroads are being made legislatively to allow animals to accompany their people in case of emergency or evacuation.(there is a bill pending in NJ right now) So Many people perished, especially the elderly, because they refused to leave their pets after Katrina struck. I believe it was Ghandi who said the measure of a society is the way in which the animals are treated.
I know in my heart that animals are holier than humans. They almost always forgive even the most hideous treatment, and they are a wellfont of unconditional love. Who doesn't need that?
And, once again , pardon the thread drift---but this IS the Soapbox, and I'm on it now!
Calli --the "she"beast |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 524
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 7, 2006 - 12:04 am: |
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Dear Calli:
Yes we will continue the calli fan club. John R will live. If your friends daughter wants someone, who went through the same thing, to talk to feel free to share my name. I have to say it was a most life changing event and I have a feeling that it will have to be repeated. Only this time I will be more prepared. I have done animal rescue before but never under such circumstances and I have an incredible respect for our military now. I and alot of colleagues that I met down there had a hard time getting readjusted to the "normality of life" here. Even as a person who has spent hours in an animal hospital and assisting in everything from hip, spine and injury surgeries I was not prepared for what I saw down there. I hope your friends daughter came through it ok. We are assembling a trained rescue-on-call team with vets and vet-techs and other volunteers. Let me know if you (still trying to rope you back in) or your friends daughter is interested in joining.
Should anybody else be interested please contact me but understand that we are only considering very experienced people. We will require all members to pay for their own shots (Rabbies, Tetanus etc) and since we wouldn't have much time to raise funds, alot would probably come out of pocket. I am however also taking to VEMA (the veterinary arm of FEMA) to see if they would at least consider supplying us with supplies. NOLA (New Orleans,LA) cost me almost 4,500.00 thousand dollars but I was lucky and had lots of friends and colleagues (at my regular job in NY) that donated funds.
Talk to you soon. |
Calliope
Citizen
Username: Calliope
Post Number: 350
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 7, 2006 - 12:34 pm: |
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Ahhhh Bajou,
While I have the heart for NOLA,again (and I think you are right---we are in for a reprise, even worse this time) I don't think I have the stomach for it. You have to have a special mettle to do that kind of intense work---and I simply don't have it anymore, but I admire you for it. Sarah, whom a group of us outfitted and sponsored last Summer, has been involved with animals since before she was born. Still, she was only 23 at the time , and saw more than I ever hope to see in my lifetime. I think the combination of human misery and animal tragedies transformed her. She made lifetime friends in those 3 weeks.They are still in touch and have supported each other with the "culture shock".
And, I just cannot be "roped in"to anything other than the occasional rescues I have been doing for the past couple of years--it is just too draining, and I can't get it through my thick skull that I can't save them all. I am concentrating my energies right now on preparing to set up my own "niche" 501(c)3 rescue, with a very narrow focus, but one which I have felt the need for over and over, through the years. If anyone is interested, PL me and I will describe my idea in excruciating and boring detail! But be very careful---I may try to enlist you as a volunteer!
I think we have gone too far afield for this thread. Sorry.
Calli |
Scully
Citizen
Username: Scully
Post Number: 594
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 5:08 am: |
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Bajou:
You wrote: 'The pup was surrendered by an individual after being fully vetted at a local animal hospital (not a stray and therefor not required to be held for 7 days). The copy of all shots was submitted by the hospital to the shelter. The puppy was given the parvo shot at the local animal hospital and either already had the virus or the shot brought on the virus which is a possibilty in a pup with a low immune system. You should have brought her to the vet that vetted her in the first place. '
I was present when this pup was adopted and after. The pup WAS A STRAY found abandoned on a major highway dodging traffic by the boyfriend of a member of Dr. Levine's staff. Since the shelter was already closed when he tried to bring it in he brought it to his girlfriend at work instead. Dr. Levine gave permission for the pup to be in his kennel overnight since his staff member was unable to take it home, and he kindly authorized shots. He did NOT examine the animal. In the morning the stray was brought to the shelter and it was almost immediately adopted out WAY fewer than the seven days required by law.
This was all found out because Dr. Levine's staff (where the individual at the shelter SAID that it had been 'vetted') was queried after the pup took deathly ill right after being adopted. It was all freely told by the staff.
When later confronted with these lies the shelter person started screaming. She got screamed back at and things totally fell apart. A dying puppy will do that to you. I have absolutely NO doubt of Dr. Levine and his staff's honesty. On the other hand I personally saw this person at the shelter's stories change from one day to another.
Having said that, I understand the valuable service this shelter does for our community and know of several outstanding individuals who work/volunteer there to help poor animals in need. Every pet (except one) my family has had in the past 25 years came from there, or the one preceeding it. Everything I witnessed was done by a single individual. |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 549
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 12:31 pm: |
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Dear Scully:
I am assuming you are the sister or husband of Combustion. The posting you describe was a PL by Combustions request. Nobody has an idea what you are referring to.
Again the vet tech turned the dog in as an owner surrender. She is well aware that we are not able to take a stray so she probably told us the surrender story. I find it very hard to believe that a Dr. like Dr. L would even consider vaccinating a dog without looking her over. No good VET would vaccinate a puppie unless he/she has assured him/herself that the pup is healthy.
I will leave it at that. I was however also present at your families visit to the shelter and (if you are the sister) you didn't help much to keep the conversation civilized.
Your sister was reimbursed by the shelter and you still did not answer me about the insurance. The puppy had free insurance as an adopted animal so you should have gotten (and maybe even did) reimbursed anyway.
I would have been happy to keep this conversation on the PL forum your sister (Combust) had requested but I guess we keep it out here now.
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Scully
Citizen
Username: Scully
Post Number: 597
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 9, 2006 - 10:09 am: |
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Dear Bajou,
I am neither sister nor husband. I was NOT asked to write, that was all
voluntary on my part, and in fact asked Combustion's permission to add my two cents.. I was responding directly to what you said above in your post.
(note the quotes). If you witnessed the scene then you also know that we
were told that the puppy had been 'vetted' at Dr. Levines. When we went
to his office we were told otherwise. Why were we told Dr. Levine's office if that wasn't so? You yourself said that the puppy should have been taken to where it had been 'vetted'.
I have no problem with this being out in the open as I have only reported what I myself saw and heard over the several day span of the incident. In my PL to you I bent over backwards to stress that I didn't blame the shelter, just the individual who had 'mis-spoke' and then started the screaming (which, unfortunately my 'side' quickly joined).
Can't you understand the horror of this? The puppy never had a chance. It
sickened almost immediately and started seriously failing within days of being found and turned over. It wasn't from the shot, it all happened too fast. A seven day quarantine would have uncovered that. This put us all into shock.
I am sorry that it's come to these 'words' between us and that apparently you do not believe me. I am REALLY sorry for that. I did not join this online community to make enemies (but here I am anyway). If you were truly there on the 'screaming day' then you heard what we were told (that day anyway). If you want to discuss it further here, via PL or even in person over tea (again let me stress that I am NOT a screamer, that should tell you which one I was that day). I am more than willing to do so.
And if you truly want to 'leave it at that' as you said I'll honor that too.
This has all been one sad, sad affair. |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 565
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, June 9, 2006 - 1:05 pm: |
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Dear Scully:
I have no interest in making enemys. I have no interest in fighting. As I stated over and over again I understand why combust and you are upset and that it really has been a sad affair. I said I heard the yelling and screaming from both sides and I said that the local animal hospital submitted shot records to the shelter. That to us would mean the dog was vetted. Anyway, I am not employed by the shelter and just responded to combustion because I didn't want her to think that the shelter knowingly lied to her and handed her a deadly ill puppy on purpose. Parvo is a killer and sadly by the time the dog shows symptoms it is ususlly to late. I do feel for combustion, her husband, you and everybody else that is involved. And I am sorry for the loss since it does hurt although some people find that weired since its only a dog. I would be happy to have some tea with you and hope we can all be friends. |
K_soze
Citizen
Username: K_soze
Post Number: 338
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 9, 2006 - 2:49 pm: |
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tea with a little sambuca |
combustion
Citizen
Username: Spontaneous
Post Number: 80
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 7:33 pm: |
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I posted a thread about an incident that happened to me. I was NOT trying to slander the shelter involved which is why I kept the name and location out of my post. In trying to keep the subject general I only said a local shelter. Just in case you weren't aware, there is more than one shelter in our area. My intent was simply to warn adopters so they could keep a sharp eye and hopefully avoid some of the heartbreak I went through, regardless of what shelter the animal is adopted from. In your first response you took my purposely vague local shelter and made it clear that you were aware of the specific incident and the location. At that point Scully responded to your post. She never saw any of the private messages we sent back and forth, she was responding directly to your post. As far as my information goes, she only stated that she was a witness to the events described by me and stated what she saw with her own eyes, nothing more. You then responded to her by assuming a relationship between us.
In summary, you took my vague posting and gave it specifics, then tried to figure out how Scully and I know each other. I would appreciate it if you did not try to "out" me online. |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 578
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 10:07 pm: |
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Dear Combustion:
I did not try to "out" you as I wanted to honor your request to keep it on a PL level and that is what I wrote. I also said that I "assume" so how could I out anybody.
Scully wrote "WE were told the puppy had been vetted at Dr. Levins" so yes I assumed scully was one of the people that I saw at the shelter with you.
Now you where told the dog was vetted because we where supplied with shot records which normally means the dog was vetted. That's what anybody would assume.
I have no interest in fighting with you. I just wanted you to know that you were not given a sick animal on purpose. I never said you slandered the shelter. I believe the person who thought you did started his/her own thread and in this thread I specifically told that person that "nobody is slandering the shelter". |
K_soze
Citizen
Username: K_soze
Post Number: 345
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, June 11, 2006 - 10:30 pm: |
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Do any hot chicks work at the shelter? |
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