| Author |
Message |
    
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14681
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 7:37 am: | 
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It isn't clear that safety on the roads overall has improved since the percentage of SUV's has risen. It's possible that those in SUV's are safer than those in other vehicles, but even that isn't clear.
While I do believe in free choice, what about informed choice? Do we know all the effects of our choices? And what about an ethical obligation that is not codified into law? Is it OK to endanger others needlessly or for purely self-serving purposes, even though it is legal?
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11799
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 8:09 am: |
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The only ecological (or moral if you prefer) difference between a Chrysler mini-van (we had two of them) and a mid-sized SUV (again, we had two of them also)is about one mpg and with the SUV you don't get stuck when we have more than six inches of snow in the four wheel drive. 
Tjohn, hopefully the Strykers will be available war surplus in the not to distant future. With the wheels they should be street legal!!
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bklyntonj
Citizen
Username: Bklyntonj
Post Number: 728
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 9:00 am: |
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Lydia, whether I own a SUV is irrelevant. This opinionated crap about a person being unamerican for driving an SUV or not allowing you to see past them are weak arguements at best. If you don't like them fine, that's your business but to go after people who do the way people are is ridiculous. I've seen SUV bashing on many threads on MOL. For what? People had less to say when they outlawed smoking in bars, why is that? Which is more dangerous?
I also didn't see anybody campaigning to get people to do less cooking with their gas stoves or to keep their thermostats down in the winter. People felt as though "if you can afford it, knock yourselves out"
People who drive SUVs are unamerican, so if I drive a German car am I an anti-semite?
I'm outta here! |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 9867
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 9:58 am: |
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Interesting stat
Quote:...replacing 15 incandescent (the regular kind) bulbs with fluorescents (those cool, corkscrew ones) removes as much carbon dioxide as driving a Prius instead of a regular car.
http://hybridblog.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/04/equating_prius_.html
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14685
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 10:03 am: |
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bklyntonj, I agree. A Subaru wagon would be considered extravagant and wasteful in many parts of the world. We probably all SHOULD think about reducing the amount we use our gas stoves and home heating systems, but we shouldn't be butting into people's lives and insulting them in order to say so.
It's not unamerican to be wasteful. It's anti-social, no matter where you are. It's also anti-social to criticize someone who is wasteful. In as much as we should talk about this stuff, I think we should talk about what "we" should be doing, rather than some people saying "you should ..." or "they should ..." We are all part of the problem, so I think we can find solutions more readily if we spoke that way.
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breal
Citizen
Username: Breal
Post Number: 938
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 11:05 am: |
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For the record, I didn't say people who drive SUVs are unAmerican. What I said (not Lydia) is that the auto companies who are still--now, in 2006--trying to expand the market for these things are unAmerican and unpatriotic. We don't need them. Big Auto, Exxon, and the house of Saud want us to want them. But I don't. I don't want to feel that pain at the pump and I don't want to give them any more of my money. They have enough already.
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notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3424
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 11:13 am: |
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Kudos to Breal for mentioning the ridiculous marketing of SUV's. Nearly every commercial or print ad you see for these things, they are shown driving in some pristine natural setting -- a forest or desert or beach -- with nobody else around, as if that was the sort of experience that buyers could expect to have. Most car commercials tend to show the car driving alone, because it just looks better that way and keeps the focus on that vehicle, but what the hell are they doing driving in an area like that?! How many SUV vehicles EVER drive in an roadless area, and why would we want to promote that in the first place?
Interesting factoid, Dave! (And a whole lot cheaper than buying a Prius!) |
LilLB
Citizen
Username: Lillb
Post Number: 1775
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 11:23 am: |
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I think most all car commercials are ridiculous and SUVs don't stand out to me to be much more ridiculous than any other. What about all of those car commercials that have the driver speeding along the road at excessive speeds and advertise being able to go from 0 - 60 in a 1/2 second (or something like that). They're selling fantasy, just like the SUV commercials are selling fantasy to people who wish they had more adventure in their lives or that others will perceive them as adventurous. I agree the SUV commercials that haul people off into the woods are ridiculous, but no different than many car commercials that seem to encourage me to be a race car driver or convince me that I don't have an ego if I buy their car.
The only realistic ad slogan I've ever heard is "Volvo. Boxy but Good"  |
Lydia
Supporter
Username: Lydial
Post Number: 1968
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 11:30 am: |
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Bklyntonj,
Quote:People who drive SUVs are unamerican, so if I drive a German car am I an anti-semite?
I never said anyone was unamerican, you're reaching here. I opined (my opinion)that driving a car that uses excessive fuel to get people to and fro is, IMO, not a particularly patriotic choice. I'll add that it's not an environmentally sound choice either.
If you want to drive an SUV that is your right. I think that as oil prices rise, along with global warming, driving an SUV is going to start to look a little silly.
What is it anyway with you and I and car arguments Brklyntonj?
Last time I saw you F2F you argued it was impossible to drive 40MPH down Ridgewood Rd.
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Kitchenguru
Citizen
Username: Kitchenguru
Post Number: 132
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 1:25 pm: |
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You should more be concerned about our over-dependence on oil and our overindulgence in disrespectful communication. |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4371
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 3:51 pm: |
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If you do own an SUV, you need to provide your child with a wagon to match.
http://www.lappscoachshop.com/wagons.html
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Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 3367
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 3:58 pm: |
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If you're getting one for your kid, go all out:
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Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 3368
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 4:00 pm: |
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Or this one: (the picture itself doesn't do it justice)
http://shop.mobileation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.107/.f?sc=2&category=3 |
K_soze
Citizen
Username: K_soze
Post Number: 362
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 4:27 pm: |
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Call me lazy for not reading all the above posts, but what if someone needed a larger sized vehicle? Not just wanted a big better blah blah blah, what if they actually has use for those vehicles? DO they suffer the same fate and bashing form the treehugging hippies? BTW, I'm sure the same folks who complain about being bullied on the road would suck driving just as much if they were in the same size vehicles. And what about those who just want a truck? Why can't people buy what they want without hearing BS from the usual complainers. I especially love it when people complain yet they drive around in 80 thousand dollar bemmers or benz's..what are they trying to prove. I don't NOT care about the enviroment, all the bulbs in my house are energy savers, I have a toyota that gets 34 miles to the gallon, and I also have a truck that seats 8 and is big enough to pull my boat...I hate it when I have to fill it with gas but "these are the breaks" I'm the one dealing with it so why the hell should anyone else care? Oh yeah, and for those who say I'm un-american...my truck is a toyota also
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tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5091
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 4:40 pm: |
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I was on Maplewood Ave. last night and just for fun walked two blocks and counted SUVs/minivans versus sedans. I omitted traditional station wagons because they're on the bubble.
SUVs outnumbered sedans 10 to 6.
Did they all need to take the Suburban out to rent a video? |
LilLB
Citizen
Username: Lillb
Post Number: 1781
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 4:42 pm: |
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K_soze - I say drive whatever the hell you want.
I would love to be able to parade through the homes of those who find it so easy to judge that everyone else out there should live ONLY with what they need. I'm sure I could find dozens of things you don't need that you've purchased. We all buy things we don't need -- how many appliances and kitchen gadgets does everyone have laying around? Why do people feel so justified in berating those who buy an SUV based on the argument that they couldn't possibly "need" it. Who cares if they need it? (And don't tell me that kitchen appliances aren't a threat to others like SUVs can be -- all that waste going into the plastic on those appliances that will just end up in some landfill somewhere for the next century....) |
Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1768
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 4:55 pm: |
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I hate to quote such an authoritative source on what is supposed to be a friendly little home-town message board... but did anyone see the South Park episode dealing with hybrids?
As the episode unfolds, we learn that hybrids are a leading cause of the deadly environmental effect known as 'smug'. Not smog - smug. Apparently not driving an SUV and driving a hybrid causes huge clouds of 'smug' to form over places like San Francisco (a hotbed of environmental 'smug', apparently).
While it is not really relevent to the whole "SUVs are the spawn of the devil" conversation, it WAS a great episode of South Park.
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LilLB
Citizen
Username: Lillb
Post Number: 1782
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 5:00 pm: |
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Case - I love that episode. Don't forget though that it was as dangerous as it was because the smug cloud created by the hybrid owners was going to collide with the smug cloud that came out of George Clooney's Oscar acceptance speech. Classic.... |
mjc
Citizen
Username: Mjc
Post Number: 1186
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 5:23 pm: |
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I could live more comfortably with people's private, it's-a-free-country decisions to drive SUVs if their vehicles were not subsidized by some idiotic laws that count them as trucks, not passenger vehicles. It really annoys me that they are eligible for more lenient tax rules and are not included in CAFE requirements (unless something has changed lately). I'm with Paul Mulshine in the Star-Ledger on this: if they're trucks, what are they doing on the GSP? if they're cars, why do they get the tax breaks? The market can regulate the need or desire for these vehicles, but only if it's allowed to operate.
I also get uneasy when I can't see over or around them, on the highway, in parking lots, etc. And the real excitement starts when it's a new vehicle and the driver is clueless how to maneuver it.
K Soze, sounds like you have an actual use for yours. To me, that's different. Enjoy your boat and your friends!
Bob K - "Why blame the full size cars?" You know I love you Bob, but - What's your standard for a full size car? Does my Taurus wagon count? It looks full size to me, and it seats 6-8, but I sure have problems seeing over/around SUVs, and I'm betting their drivers have trouble seeing me, too. In a fender bender an SUV would whack my car's radiator or rear gate instead of the bumper. If other people are driving huge vehicles, do I have to trade, literally, up? Is there a sliding size scale? This year a Camry or Taurus is full size, but next year to qualify as full size you have to be able to see around a Navigator?
end of rant
happy and safe driving, all -
MC
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MeAndTheBoys
Citizen
Username: Meandtheboys
Post Number: 3972
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 5:26 pm: |
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I drive an SUV because I have three children and all have to be in car seats and you can't squeeze three kids across one backseat of any car, and because we have a dog and we travel a lot in the summer and we need lots of space for us and our stuff, and because during the school months I car pool with lots of people and sometimes take 5 or 6 kids in my car, none of whom are old enough to be anywhere near the front seat. And today it came in VERY handy at the intersection of Burnet and Morris when I had to drive over a concrete island between Morris and Spruce Streets, to get around a horrific traffic jam that the Union P.D. told me they could do nothing about!
I'm a good, thoughtful, considerate driver 99% of the time (we all have bad days). I'm very skilled at driving and parking my SUV. As a matter of fact, I can parallel park my truck a whole lot better than a whole lot of people I've seen in much smaller cars. Not to mention, I don't believe the wheelbase on my truck is any bigger than that of a mini-van, pick-up truck or full-size sedan--so all this griping about SUV's taking up more parking space than other cars is somewhat lost on me.
My next car will probably be a mini-van (even though I'd rather stick hot knitting needles in my eye than drive one, and even though it will still not have enough "horizontal" cargo space for us) because I can no longer justify buying a gas guzzler. But what I really want is a Suburban, so I can fit all my kids, all their friends and everybodys stuff whenever I need to. They make a Suburban that runs on gas and ethanol, but there's not one place in NJ to buy ethanol.
So the mini-van will get a couple more miles-to-the-gallon and no one will call me names based on the vehicle I drive.
But the overall problem will never be solved until the big oil lobbies are squashed and car manufacturers make cars that run on alternative energy sources, in sizes and shapes to fit all kinds of people and families. If I could fit my whole family and all our stuff in a Prius, I'd buy it in a second. But it just ain't gonna happen. |
Elgato
Citizen
Username: Elgato
Post Number: 66
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 7:40 pm: |
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From today's NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/13/automobiles/13suv.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
David (Car) Has Better Chance Against Goliath (S.U.V.)
Those SUV's aren't so safe. Check out this paragraph from the above link:
Collisions between an S.U.V., pickup or minivan and a car kill more people than car-to-car collisions, statistics show. When all types of crashes are considered, occupants of sport utilities and pickups actually have a higher death rate than car occupants. This is mainly because sport utilities and pickups are more likely to roll over when they strike another vehicle, a curb or a guard rail, or if they miss a turn or swerve. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14703
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 8:02 pm: |
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Yes, you have a right to buy whatever you need. And no one should berate you for it. But don't you find it interesting that what you need is governed by what you can afford? If you couldn't afford it, you wouldn't consider it a need.
And did you see what I wrote about real but hidden costs? I think the prices we pay for fossil fuels are tremendously subsidized. If we paid the real costs directly, we would use far less. I feel we should aim for that as a society.
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MeAndTheBoys
Citizen
Username: Meandtheboys
Post Number: 3978
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 8:11 pm: |
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I'm aiming for that as an individual. Unfortunately, my choices are limited. I need a car to drive, any car that fits my needs uses gas. Until someone makes a car that fits my needs that doesn't use gas, there's not a whole heck of a lot more I can do as an individual. And I imagine I'm not the only one who feels this way. |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 4769
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 8:27 pm: |
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matb- A van has plenty of room. I have a van and more children than you and a dog and we all fit and go on vacation together. We have a thule for the top which gives us more room for longer trips when we have more stuff. And we are sports people so always have additional 'stuff'.
My Toyota Sienna van gets way way better mileage than a suburban. 28/18. I never worry about the "cool" factor, because, hey, I am so cool who cares what car I drive!! (except not a steroidal suv)
You'll like your van once you switch.
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MeAndTheBoys
Citizen
Username: Meandtheboys
Post Number: 3980
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 8:39 pm: |
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foff, I understand what you're saying, and everyone I know who's made the switch feels the same way. Just never pictured myself as a "mini-van mom." Also, my point about the cargo space: every mini-van I've ever looked at has lots of cargo space floor to ceiling for boxier, bulkier things, but not so much front to back for longer, flatter things.
The Suburban has three rows of seating and a huge cargo area front to back.
We also have a Thule-like thing for on top of the car, but it sure can be a P.I.A.
But if you say it works with four kids and a dog, I'll take your word. Now, just this past weekend we got a bike rack, so we'll probably be loading that on the car too! |
red
Citizen
Username: Redy67
Post Number: 5779
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 8:45 pm: |
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Me I am with you. I started off with a mini-van and just HATED it. They are great, for families, I just am not a minivan "mom". (not that there is anything wrong with that) I got my Ford Explorer and love it. |
MeAndTheBoys
Citizen
Username: Meandtheboys
Post Number: 3981
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 8:49 pm: |
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Nor am I a big fan of "following the crowd." I really don't want to drive the same car everyone else is. A couple of years ago it was the Mazda mini-van, which seems very bare bones to me. Now, everywhere I look I see a damned Honda Odyssey!
Funny how the Kia Sedona got the best overall safety rating from the IIHS, and it's probably one of the least expensive mini-vans around, and yet I don't see anyone driving it. |
red
Citizen
Username: Redy67
Post Number: 5780
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 8:59 pm: |
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Yes, but Me, let us not forget about the new convertible...(it is a convertible right?) Now that would be....a Thunderbird convertible. |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 4770
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 9:03 pm: |
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matb- My van has those way back seats (as most do now) that fold flat into the floor. The Sienna has a 2/3 1/3 spilt. So, in your case, you can put the 2/3 part down flat for that long front/back space and still have one kid in the 3rd seat. |
Mr. Big Poppa
Citizen
Username: Big_poppa
Post Number: 705
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 10:52 pm: |
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Me&,
You are very non-eco-friendly with that SUV! If you really need to fit that many kids, you should instead, buy 2 fuel-efficient cars and hire a driver for the second one. C'mon...I mean PLEAAAZE think out of the box! |
MeAndTheBoys
Citizen
Username: Meandtheboys
Post Number: 3987
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 5:55 am: |
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Wow, red. You've really built my little "sports car" up in your mind, haven't you. No such luck on the "convertible" or Thunderbird part.
Just a very cute little orangey-red Mazda 3 with the super sporty package that includes skirts and a little thing on the back (fin, airdamn, whatever the heck you call it), really cool wheels, 5-speed manual transmission, sunroof, Bose 6-CD changer stereo, that's just lots of fun to drive.
Nothing fancy, but sporty and not too expensive.
Mr. Big, how about I just teach the almost-8-year-old to drive the "sports car" and then let him follow me around with the extra little ones in "his" car! How's that for thinking outside the box? |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11808
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 7:35 am: |
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Mjc - a lot of what I post in the SUV threads is just to get the crazy people foaming at the mouth.
Me - Good luck with the mini-van. However, I have to warn you that women with mini-vans rapidly morph into middle-age, make weekly trips to the beauty parlor to get their perms and color updated and start wearing, uhm, very supportive undergarments. I think "matronly" is the term I am looking for. |
MeAndTheBoys
Citizen
Username: Meandtheboys
Post Number: 3988
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 7:43 am: |
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My biggest fears confirmed Bob K. Is it your mission in life to follow me around this message board, scaring the heck out of me? First, it's the contractor hitting your gas main in my renovation blog, and now this! 
(So, if I'm gonna drive the mini-van, I guess I really need to work harder towards that navel piercing--you know, go to the extreme opposite of "matronly!") |
LilLB
Citizen
Username: Lillb
Post Number: 1783
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 8:55 am: |
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Tom - I don't think that need is determined by how much you can afford. When and if I buy an SUV, it's not because I think I need it; it's because that's the vehicle I want. So, I don't think need is governed by what I can afford. It's just that you can get what you want if you can afford it (material things anyway). I'm very clear that an SUV wouldn't be a "need" thing for me - just a "want" thing.
My husband and I only own one car between us and plan to keep it that way. Our consumption of gasoline is so low, that I feel like that is my contribution to "the environment." We don't go on long trips every weekend and neither of us drive to work.
I just don't think that people should be made to feel that they owe everyone an explanation to justify their purchase of an SUV, and it's clear that most people do feel like they need to justify it. Can you imagine if people did that about all of our purchases? |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3427
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 10:36 am: |
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I certainly think that we should all be worrying a lot more about our own moral and/or environmental "score" than anybody else's. But we're human beings and we feel the urge to make our feelings known, and there actually is some value to knowing what others think. We don't have to be jerks about it... then again, I have absolutely no patience for people who drive Hummers! That's a vehicle that seems to say "F.U." as soon as you look at it, so I sometimes feel compelled to offer that same sentiment back. 
I don't know if I should really go here, but if we're going to get into the morality of our purchasing decisions... how about brands like the Gap and their other labels? Honestly, I love their clothes and they are cheap, but the reason they are cheap is because their products are made by people who are treated very poorly. Same goes for some kinds of produce and flowers and many other products. Shouldn't that be considered when deciding where/what to buy? It's NOT reasonable to ask ourselves to find out every last detail about the entire supply chain for everything we buy. But we should be able to make ethical considerations part of our purchasing process without hamstringing ourselves.
Here's a good link on the subject... Responsible Shopper |
LilLB
Citizen
Username: Lillb
Post Number: 1786
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 10:42 am: |
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That's an interesting website Notehead. Good to have, thanks. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11817
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 10:59 am: |
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Me, it wasn't a gas main, just a flexible connector. As I said earlier in my post, this subject brings out the troll in me. I find the stereotypes about what people drive amusing at best and kind of sad at worst.  |
blackcat
Citizen
Username: Blackcat
Post Number: 628
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 1:21 pm: |
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The Kia Sedona has one of the worst ratings according to Consumer Reports this year. I had one as a loner for a week or so while my car was in the shop. The only nice thing about it was that it was cleaner than my car. |
John James Leuchs Jr
Citizen
Username: Clairvoyant
Post Number: 91
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 5:17 am: |
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My major complaint is with our government not supporting world environmental policies. In Europe people who need larger vehicles drive station wagons. Why should Hummers be subsidized by taxpayers? Making it possible to buy a Hummer as a tax write-off was ridiculous legislation. When you shop in Europe for groceries you bring cloth bags - not all the waste of plastic and paper as in the USA. Now Bush is suddenly concerned about our reliance on foreign oil. What a joke! He encouraged the production of SUVs from the beginning of his administration. As a group we are not good citizens of the world (I'm avoiding the unamerican label). |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3433
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 2:03 pm: |
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Darn right, John James. 
To SUV owners who purchased their vehicles because they "just wanted them": What if everyone who currently drives a coupe or sedan started exchanging their cars for full-sized buses and RV's and using them to run errands and commute to work? What would that be like for you? I think you'd come to understand the ire of us "real car" drivers pretty quickly. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14711
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 2:09 pm: |
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Agreed, notehead, but my vision is of people walking and cycling and taking mass transit. In that vision, even an efficient car is extravagant. I am troubled by the trend where bigger and bigger things are considered vagant (is that the opposite of extravagant), i.e. normal and not a luxury. Families are smaller than they were 50 years ago, but we have more cars and bigger cars, and our houses are twice as big. I'm damned serious that our perception of what's necessary is heavily influenced by what we can afford. Take a drive through a poor neighborhood and take stock of the things that we take for granted that they don't have. Then imagine yourself telling these people about what's "necessary." It would be pure fantasy for them to have houses with as many rooms as we have, plenty of clothing and food, cars and homes in excellent repair, kids with tutors, sports, extra curricular activities, etc.
I'd say the most environmentally conservative person in SOM still has more luxuries -- that deplete or hurt the environment -- than more wasteful people elsewhere. I am not saying that we need to take on more guilt for this. I am saying all this to put it in perspective so we don't criticize individuals for their choices. I am concerned with the trends, not in chewing out a person for his/her choices.
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Mr. Big Poppa
Citizen
Username: Big_poppa
Post Number: 708
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 2:37 pm: |
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The South Park "Hybrid Smug" episode was repeated last night. Hilarious!!!
Ligeti, do you love smelling your own farts also? |
Ligeti Man Meat
Citizen
Username: Ligeti
Post Number: 681
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 10:09 pm: |
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Here's a nice big one for you, Mr. Big Poppa:
(sound of loud, extended, gaseous emission; I don't know how to convert it to an MP3 file; Case?)
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Mr. Big Poppa
Citizen
Username: Big_poppa
Post Number: 710
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 10:28 pm: |
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If you didn't catch the South Park episode, here it is in 3 sections. The first one gives you enough flavor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlKatEDV1KE&search=south%20park%20hybrid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqaVbAdvcQc&search=south%20park%20hybrid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6w5WDlDN_s&search=south%20park%20hybrid
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Ligeti Man Meat
Citizen
Username: Ligeti
Post Number: 682
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 10:15 am: |
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I guess Americans, as a culture, have trouble imagining how their actions affect others. No surprise.
The New York Times
June 13, 2006
Collisions between an S.U.V., pickup or minivan and a car kill more people than car-to-car collisions, statistics show.
As more Americans buy smaller cars to save money on gas, the danger of collisions between mismatched vehicles is escalating.
“Why should that decision put you in significantly greater jeopardy of being paralyzed or killed when a gigantic S.U.V. slams into you and overwhelms you?” (Byron Bloch, an automotive safety expert who has testified in numerous court cases involving S.U.V.s)
A large number of sport utility vehicles and pickups (have) been redesigned to reduce the threat they pose in collisions with smaller cars and are now reaching the road. Automakers initially resisted but then agreed to adopt the changes by late 2009. As of the 2005 model year, almost every 4 out of 10 S.U.V.s and pickups do not comply with these new standards.
Vehicles that do comply with the new guidelines have front ends low enough to strike the bumper or doorsill of a smaller car rather than hitting the car at a higher point and crushing the passenger compartment.
Automakers have mostly kept quite about changes they have made to improve safety in crashes. Automakers note that sport utility buyers are not likely to choose a particular model for its benefits to other drivers on the road.
Reject self-absorbed Americans, their guns, SUVs, wide-screen flat panel TVs, super size junk food diets and obsession with Howard Stern.
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