| Author |
Message |
    
campbell29
Citizen
Username: Campbell29
Post Number: 491
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 12:01 am: | 
|
Personally, I find hunting on the Dick Cheney model of shooting down a bunch of domestic birds and calling it sport repugnant. I also believe hunting foxes and deer somewhat less repugnant but not a sport, as some believe. As for armed intruders in one's own home, I think a good alarm system paired with a trained guard dog would be more than suffiecient. Lets face it, we here in suburban NJ dont come equipped with any knowledge of firearms, and most likely any attmept to use them will most likely play into an agressor's advanage.
Of course, it might be nice if handguns were illegal, but no doubt other states would continue to allow them. I don't understand the whole argument of why people need to carry "concealed weapons". If deterrence was truly an object, wouldn't we feel a whole lot safer is our neighbors were trotting down the street with UZIs' strapped to their shoulders? |
Paper Bag Bandit
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 1194
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 12:26 am: |
|
Who said anything about automatic weapons? |
newone
Citizen
Username: Newone
Post Number: 406
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 6:15 am: |
|
FYI - Uzis (and all other fully automatic weapons) are illegal to own (and you would never carry them concealed) in NJ. |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4416
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 6:40 am: |
|
Here's to all those suburban Puritans passing judgement on hunters, mostly from a firm foundation of ignorance.
What I remember from hunting with my father is walking through woods and briar patches and corn rows on frosty November mornings and sometimes, drizzly days. Or having a chance to get to know my uncle. And realizing that the best part was spending a day outdoors.
 |
Ligeti Man Meat
Citizen
Username: Ligeti
Post Number: 703
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 10:07 am: |
|
Again, there are numerous other male bonding activities to choose from.
Why not just walk through the fields with your uncle and LOOK at the animals instead of blow them to pieces? |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 3415
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 11:43 am: |
|
Ligeti,
Because many men less "enlightened" than yourself would call that a Massengil commercial or a date. |
K_soze
Citizen
Username: K_soze
Post Number: 460
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 12:02 pm: |
|
hahahahaha |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 3418
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 12:25 pm: |
|
Oh, and I've never seen an animal blown to pieces. Sounds like it would be messy and not leave much meat left to eat. |
Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 2486
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 12:32 pm: |
|
Try shooting a chipmunk. |
Ligeti Man Meat
Citizen
Username: Ligeti
Post Number: 705
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 1:07 pm: |
|
Dead is dead. All because you guys want to go for a walk in a field for some important male bonding.
Why not pick on something your own size? Something that can shoot back?
Squirts. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 3420
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 1:19 pm: |
|
A deer is more than twice my size (not that I hunt). And if they would just develop an opposable thumb, they'd be able to shoot back.
A question for you... How cute does an animal have to be before it is no longer acceptable to kill it? How intelligent? How useful? |
Paper Bag Bandit
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 1198
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 1:42 pm: |
|
Rastro. You don't blow an animal to pieces. If that occured, however, it would be an indication that you are using the wrong type of firearm. |
Ligeti Man Meat
Citizen
Username: Ligeti
Post Number: 706
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 2:01 pm: |
|
Need I say more, folks?
Do you see what I'm dealing with here? |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4418
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 2:06 pm: |
|
Here is Ligeti and spouse issuing disapprovals of various activities they never participated in and therefore cannot accept that these are important and enjoyable for some people.
 |
newone
Citizen
Username: Newone
Post Number: 407
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 2:09 pm: |
|
Oh, we know what we're dealing with...
So, Ligeti - are you a vegan or not? If not, how do you look at yourself in the mirror knowing that what you eat has been killed (whether by hunting or in a slaughterhouse)?
You don't have any leather interior in your car? Leather belts? Shoes?
Just curious.... |
TomR
Citizen
Username: Tomr
Post Number: 1154
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 2:18 pm: |
|
Going back to the pellet rifle query for a moment, there appears to be a peculiarity, or an oversight, in New Jersey's laws.
It seems that a pellet rifle is not within the definition of a "rifle", and its the possession of a "rifle", which requires a license or a permit.
Wierd! Ain't it.
TomR |
Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 2490
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 2:33 pm: |
|
"Firearm or firearms" means any handgun, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, <<- assault
firearm,->> automatic or semi-automatic rifle, or any gun, device or instrument in the
nature of a weapon from which may be fired or ejected any solid <<-projectile,->> <<+
projectable+>> ball, slug, pellet, missile or bullet, or any gas, vapor or other noxious
thing, by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting
of flammable or explosive substances. It shall also include, without limitation, any
firearm which is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a
similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide,
compressed or other gas<<-,->> or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by
compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch
in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person.
Fire arms require a permit |
Paper Bag Bandit
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 1200
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 2:36 pm: |
|
That's funny because you can buy airsoft guns at most any sporting goods store without any check other than age. |
newone
Citizen
Username: Newone
Post Number: 408
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 2:42 pm: |
|
TomR - you do need an FID (firearms ID card) to purchase any rifle (including BB & pellet). This card you keep for life and you do not need to get a seperate permit when you want to purchase another rifle(s). To purchase a pistol (including BB & pellet) you will need a permit to purchase a pistol. These you need to apply for seperately from the FID and you will need one permit for every pistol you may want to purchase.
I clarified this today as I was at the PD updating my FID with my new address.
Hope this clears things up... |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 3421
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 2:44 pm: |
|
Good questions, newone. So Ligeti, do you eat meat of any kind? Fish? Chicken? <gasp> Veal? Chocolate covered ants? Anything that requires the sacrifice of an animal's life? |
Ligeti Man Meat
Citizen
Username: Ligeti
Post Number: 707
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 2:53 pm: |
|
I'm not opposed to hunting for food (although I don't know why you need to do this; Pathmark has loads of fish sticks, turkey burgers, steaks, and even more).
If I were starving, I'd shoot a deer and eat it.
What gets me all worked up is hunting for sport. The guys who wander through fields shooting small animals or slaughtering African big game for what they believe is a test of their manhood. They're cowards. Probably drive Hummers, too.
Reject male bonding and all the carnage, noise and destruction that accompanies it. |
Paper Bag Bandit
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 1203
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 2:54 pm: |
|
I have the perfect diet for you Ligeti Man-I'm-Nuts.
 |
LilLB
Citizen
Username: Lillb
Post Number: 1834
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 2:55 pm: |
|
I don't have a problem with hunting from the perspective of needing to find food to eat, if that's really the case. I'm not a vegetarian - I realize that someone kills the meat I am eating, and I'm glad it's not me.
But, "Recreational" hunting is basically killing another animal for "Sport". That seems like an entirely different thing to me and I don't understand how people can do that. |
Paper Bag Bandit
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 1204
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 2:55 pm: |
|
Ligeti I highly doubt that most hunters drive hummers. Hummers are not off-road vehicles and most hunters tend to be very practical and get a good sized pickup |
LilLB
Citizen
Username: Lillb
Post Number: 1835
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 2:57 pm: |
|
Glock -That's the freeze-dried ice cream, right? We used to bring that stuff camping with us when I was a kid as a "treat." Bleeecchhh...
|
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 3424
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 3:07 pm: |
|
Fish were most likely raised in a fish farm, in cramped pens.
Chickens and Turkey are raised in cramped coops with little fresh air, pumped full of steroids and antibiotics, restricted in their movements to increase the amount of white meat, and their beaks are cut so they cannot hurt each other (and reduce output). In fact, a comment was made that the US poultry industry is safer from bird flu than other countries because our poultry does not get outside, and therefore has no contact with outside birds.
Cows are force fed corn rather than grass because it improves the marbling and flavor of the beef. Then they are given antibiotics to decrease the infections that they get from their poor diets. They are killed by, among other methods, forcing a steel rod into their brains. Calves (from which you get that veal you love) are penned up, with their movement HIGHLY restricted to the point of near immobility, so that the meat stays tender.
If you ever saw a commercial meat plant (or a chicken or turkey farm), you would go out and hunt all your food rather than eat what is packaged for you in the store.
By supporting the commercial meat industry, you are causing the pain and suffering of countless animals.
Reject hypocritical whiners. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 3425
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 3:10 pm: |
|
LilB, I'd be upset to see a hunter kill an animal and not make use of it's carcass for food. I've never seen someone kill a deer and leave the carcass. There are organizations that take in deer carcasses to feed the poor. |
LilLB
Citizen
Username: Lillb
Post Number: 1837
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 3:17 pm: |
|
Rastro - I guess I see it differently because people around here can go to the grocery store and get meat, which means if they're going out hunting for it instead, they're doing it for recreational purposes because they enjoy it. That's the part I don't really understand. |
LilLB
Citizen
Username: Lillb
Post Number: 1838
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 3:20 pm: |
|
And, just one more point on that - having some people go out and hunt their own food instead of buying it at the store probably won't affect the meat industry at all, so those practices would continue. Everyone (or at least a very large percentage) would have to hunt instead of buy to really have an impact, and that's really never going to happen here. |
S.L.K. 2.0
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1764
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 3:23 pm: |
|
Ligeti-
Ok hold on now....
Isn't a father and son engaging in bug collecting (the jar kind) a form of male bonding?
What have you got against men?
-SLK |
TomR
Citizen
Username: Tomr
Post Number: 1155
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 3:35 pm: |
|
Brett & Newone,
I readily agree that a pellet rifle is considered a "firearm" and/or a "weapon" under the New Jersey Statutes.
I just don't get the part about the possession of one requiring a permit. A pellet rifle doesn't fit the definition of a "rifle".
I'd be especially curious to read more about Newone's conversation with our P.D..
You guys may know more than I do. I just read the statutes last year before abandoning the purchase idea.
Thanks for any help in a better understanding.
TomR |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 3428
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 3:37 pm: |
|
LilLB, my first post was to ridicule Ligeti, not make a real point. My second post was supposed to be the rational one. Yes, very few people around here hunt for food. My point is that they are not blasting animals to pieces, leaving the carcasses, then laughing about it over a beer.
On the other hand, what is the difference between going out and hunting a deer and eating it, and buying a venison steak from a butcher? In both cases, and deer was killed for its meat. The only differences I see are who is doing the killing and the life of the animal before it was killed. |
Ligeti Man Meat
Citizen
Username: Ligeti
Post Number: 708
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 3:45 pm: |
|
How many times do I have to tell you: we collect the bugs, we catalogue them, we let them go. Our male bonding does not result in any carnage, noise, destruction or war.
We're real men without needing guns. |
LilLB
Citizen
Username: Lillb
Post Number: 1841
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 3:48 pm: |
|
Rastro - I would agree that hunters are not out there wildly blasting things to pieces.
I think your last sentence it what I'm trying to get at -- I can't imagine why anyone would want to be the one to kill the animal. People work at slaughterhouses probably because it's work that they can get and pay the bills. I realize the end result is the same, so I don't fault a hunter for eating what it kills, I just don't understand why anyone would want to be the killer.
The only thing I can conclude is that the hunter enjoys killing because s/he doesn't have to do it, yet s/he chooses to go through the process of killing anyway. That's the part I don't get -- why someone would want to be the one to kill. |
newone
Citizen
Username: Newone
Post Number: 409
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 3:51 pm: |
|
TomR - nothing further to add. All I can say is "that's NJ!" 
|
Paper Bag Bandit
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 1206
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 4:03 pm: |
|
Ligeti define "real man". |
Ligeti Man Meat
Citizen
Username: Ligeti
Post Number: 709
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 4:15 pm: |
|
Thanks for chiming in, LiLB. You're on to something no one else could answer earlier.
Setting aside the hunt-or-starve scenario, which we know is rampant through Maplewood, what exactly is the sensation sporting hunters feel when they shoot helpless animals?
Some kind of primal elation? A God-given triumph of a superior genus?
They won't admit it, but it makes them feel like big men. I've been around these people. The notion of a level playing field, and therefore the true spirit of competition, does not enter their thinking.
Big trucks and drinking are often an important part of the experience.
|
Paper Bag Bandit
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 1207
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 4:33 pm: |
|
Yep. See, Ligeti has issues. He won't define "real man", "big man" because he can't. You can mainly chalk that up to his entire platform being bogus. |
Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 2491
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 9:19 pm: |
|
Ligeti is some what of an enigma. He / She talks about “Being around those people” but the only people he / she could possibly be talking about is _ _ _ _ _ trash (didn’t want to put a color in there). I’ve known hunters all my life and have never experienced the type of people he / she talks about. I guess I run in better circles.
He / She speaks of how my way of life is so morbid, but has yet to explain if he / she is a vegan. So the only thing I could guess is that he / she is lying.
Despises cell phones (must have a crappy job, because most of us require one), hates technology of all kinds (must cook over a fire), hates any car that doesn’t get over a billion mpg (must ride a bike) excreta excreta.
Or Ligeti is completely full of •••• and isn’t worth responding to.
|
Paper Bag Bandit
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 1215
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 9:28 pm: |
|
Exactly...that's why I said he/she should go live in an igloo in the arctic somewhere in the cell phones thread |
Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 2492
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 9:41 pm: |
|
Igloos require whale blubber to heat. Whales must be hunted, so that is not an option. |
TomR
Citizen
Username: Tomr
Post Number: 1156
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 9:44 pm: |
|
Newone,
Like I initially posted. Wierd! Eh?
TomR |
newone
Citizen
Username: Newone
Post Number: 410
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 6:59 am: |
|
TomR - Yup...
(BTW - the FID only cost $18 I believe) |
Paper Bag Bandit
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 1222
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 8:33 am: |
|
Brett I did I say live in an igloo...I had hoped they'd just go up there and realize they need technology
|
Paper Bag Bandit
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 1223
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 8:33 am: |
|
Brett I did I say live in an igloo...I had hoped they'd just go up there and realize they need technology..only too late and they theyd be frozen..
|
breal
Citizen
Username: Breal
Post Number: 952
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 10:34 am: |
|
Brett, do you know Dick Cheney or the old lawyer whose head he nearly blew off? How would you classify that type of hunter? And how would you classify that type of hunting? The kind where you sit around drinking hooch until a gameskeeper lobs a big quail your way. Because Cheney seems like a high class kind of guy. Vice President & all. And even as a young man he showed upper class behaviors, such as hollering out war cries the entire time he sat out Vietnam. Still, what class of hunter, after bringing down some big game, maaaaaaajor GOP donor after all, just goes inside and hides in his room? |
Paper Bag Bandit
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 1232
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 10:35 am: |
|
That would be 2 hunters. 2 hunters do not represent all hunters. |
Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 2502
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 10:43 am: |
|
Honestly I have no idea about hunting game raised on a farm, so I can’t really pass judgment. I also have no experience with big game hunting. I don’t fish because I find it boring, but I don’t consider fishermen murderers.
I would imagine that if those people do it, they must enjoy it. Just because I don’t care to hunt quail or big games doesn’t mean it’s wrong.
|
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4422
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 11:41 am: |
|
Brett,
Next time we go goose hunting down in Memorial Park, I'm not inviting Ligeti and Montagnard. |
Mr. Big Poppa
Citizen
Username: Big_poppa
Post Number: 713
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 12:35 pm: |
|
Real men kill with their bare hands and teeth. Using any other weapon is for p*ssies. |
TomR
Citizen
Username: Tomr
Post Number: 1157
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 5:32 pm: |
|
More wierdness.
A Bergen County Assistant Prosecutor tells us that "... a permit is not required merely to have guns in a house...".
http://www.nj.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news-3/1150951647260560.xml?starledger? nnj&coll=1
I'm begining to wonder whether I've completely misunderstood New Jersey's gun laws.
TomR |
newone
Citizen
Username: Newone
Post Number: 411
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 6:26 pm: |
|
TomR
If all he had were rifles, then all he needed to purchase them over the years is the FID card I mentioned earlier. If he owned any psitols, then he would have had to get a permit to purchase for each individual pistol. If he owned any fully aoutomatic machine guns (which I get the impression he did not have), then he would have to have a Class III license (I believe).
To sum up, FID to buy long rifles, purmit to purchase for pistols. A permit is not required to have weapons in your home since you already had the permit to buy.
Hope this explains it a little better... |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 3429
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 11:45 pm: |
|
You know who really gets me? Catch and release fishermen. I mean, these guys don't even eat their catch. They lure unsuspecting fish with bait so that the fish can have a big hook jammed into its lip. Then, rather than mercifully putting the fish out of its misery, they rip the hook out of the fish's lip and toss it back into the water. Then they go after it, or one of its friends, again. Many hunters only kill one animal per season. How many tortured and disabled fish must there be before action is taken against these sadists? |
TomR
Citizen
Username: Tomr
Post Number: 1158
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 11:42 pm: |
|
Perhaps I read too much into the prosecutor's statement.
TomR
|
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page