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red
Citizen
Username: Redy67
Post Number: 5961
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 7:38 pm: | 
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Gotcha Smarty thanks fo clarifying. I owe you an apology  |
pcs81632
Citizen
Username: Pcs81632
Post Number: 50
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 9:45 pm: |
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As a child, we called our neighbor Aunt Peg. She loved it. |
red
Citizen
Username: Redy67
Post Number: 5989
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 9:51 pm: |
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The funny thing I notice is that there are "adults" my husband met in his child who he still calls Mrs. X. I call them by their first name, because I met them when I was an adult.
Neither he or I ever made a transition to calling adults by the first name that we met when we were children. |
ess
Citizen
Username: Ess
Post Number: 2373
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 9:52 pm: |
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Suzanne - even though Little ess occasionally reads MOL and knows you post, she always, always refers to you as Mrs. Ng.
I have realized that I generally like being called by my first name by people I know, regardless of age. What actually did offend me was how the med students would saunter in the hospital room, after I had given birth, and announce, "Hello, E, I am Doctor Idiot". Those kids were not doctors, and I felt that by using my first name they were being rude and presumptuous. My kids' friends can call me E. Those boobs - forget it. |
red
Citizen
Username: Redy67
Post Number: 5993
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 9:59 pm: |
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your friend calls you e those boobs? Okay, I think I need to cut myself off now.... |
red
Citizen
Username: Redy67
Post Number: 5994
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 10:00 pm: |
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wait, no! Only seven more posts until I reach 6,000....then we should do a party at the tike bar.. |
ess
Citizen
Username: Ess
Post Number: 2375
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 10:01 pm: |
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Actually, my kids' friends call me E those boobs.
Must be all that MTV they are watching. |
Suzanne Ng
Citizen
Username: Suzanneng
Post Number: 811
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 10:46 pm: |
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Thanks, I would have expected to be called Mrs Ng from the students.. I meant more the parents... They always call me Mrs Ng in person... it's the online world that *I* feel awkward in... calling "you" (not you exactly, but people) ess online,.. It's a bit confusing... even between adults... I do not know the parents outside of school, so I call them Mr/Mrs. , but if I know them online, it becomes less formal.
am I making any sense? |
HOMMELL
Citizen
Username: Hommell
Post Number: 242
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 10:46 pm: |
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A Quaker view:
At the outset George Fox noted the importance of Friends'speaking truthfully, plainly and simply:
"For the Lord showed me, that though the people of the world have mouths full of deceit, and changeable words, yet I was to keep to Yea and Nay in all things; and that my words should be few and savoury, seasoned with grace...."
Plain speech is characterised by several practices common among Friends. We avoid absolutely among ourselves and when addressing public figures the use of honourarytitles of address, for example, Mr., Miss, Mrs., Ms, Your Honour, and the like especially as applied to public personages. The children of Friends learn this manner of address early. Our children are introduced to adults by first name and last name. Both child and adult continue then to address one another by first name alone or first and last names together. No disrespect of the young for the old is intended or heard. |
Matt Foley
Citizen
Username: Mattfoley
Post Number: 710
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 11:18 pm: |
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I just got my kids to stop calling me Matt. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 3431
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 10:27 pm: |
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"...you will quickly learn that complying with what other adults want is an extremely poor approach to parenting, which will lead to disasterous outcomes."
I agree. That is why I choose to allow my children to call other adults by what they prefer. If someone introduces himself to my child as Mr. X, then they should call that person Mr. X until such time that Mr. X says they can call him by his first name. If someone introduces himself by their his name, then that is what my children can call them, until that person asks to be called by their last name.
My kids are young, so they typically fall into the "Jane's Mommy" crowd. But for people that are close friends of the family, particularly if they have children that my kids are friendly with, they are usually called by their first names.
I'm curious. If an adult introduces himself to your child by his first name, how is your child to know their last name to call them Mr. X? |
thegoodsgt
Citizen
Username: Thegoodsgt
Post Number: 1005
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 8:55 am: |
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Has there been a gradual decline of respect toward adults?
I remember just 30 years ago, when I was between 5 and 10, being taught to respect my elders. I was expected to address everyone as Mr. or Ms. Very close family friends were know as "Uncle" John or "Aunt" Paula. Today, in my late 30s, I still address those now-elderly friends as Mr. Samone and Mrs. Hall. It seems like the right thing to do.
I also remember that, as a child, if I misbehaved in my neighborhood or in public, it was appropriate for any nearby adult to tell me to stop. Could that happen today? Probably not. I wouldn't feel comfortable telling a child to stop his bad behavior for feel of him telling me to F- off (does anyone notice the crude language our children are using?) or his parents telling me to stop interfering. |
Strings
Supporter
Username: Blue_eyes
Post Number: 878
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 10:28 am: |
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My mother always asked my friends to call her by her first name, however, I was taught to address adults as Mr/Mrs until they told me otherwise. It's a personal preference mixed with proper etiquette, which I think is the way to go.
On a side note, in the small private school I teach in, the teachers and even administrators go by first name. However, these children have various developmental and behavioral disabilities and it's easier for them to learn first names which tend to be more managable than last names. There are two teachers who have older, higher functioning students that do go by the traditional Mr./Mrs. Last Name, but that's only because their students can handle it. |
shoshannah
Citizen
Username: Shoshannah
Post Number: 1302
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 10:48 am: |
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I think a lot has to do with cultural background and neighborhood conventions. Up to age 7 I lived in Brooklyn in a very Jewish neighborhood. We called all adults by their first names. It was a very close-knit community where all the families in the building were friends with each other -- it wasn't like my friends' parents were some unknown people who I just met; they were like family. It would have been awkward and unfitting for children to use last names.
Then we moved to the suburbs. The neighborhhod custom was last names only. Throughout my childhood I still called the Brooklyn parents by their first names and the suburb parents by their names names. |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 4776
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 11:07 am: |
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Using mr/mrs doesn't have to be awkward and unfitting. It's all what you're used to. Even my best friends' kids call me mrs. ffof. As they become adults they can use my first name, and I tell them so. I grew up calling all our family friends mr/mrs and I still do - it's just habit. I still want to call my mother-in-law, Mrs. Ffof (and I've known her for 28 years!)
What I don't like is when some big teenager, a friend of one of my kids, comes to my house and calls me by my first name. But that almost never happens, because 1) kids know their friend's full name, not their friend's mom's first name and 2)they use Mr and Mrs at school and various places, so it's really no big deal for them.
I think it's some parents who are hung up with it, not the kids.
I always call teachers by mr/ms even if they are only 22! It just sets an example and a level of respect, imo. |
Hank Zona
Supporter
Username: Hankzona
Post Number: 5752
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 11:39 am: |
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even if I know a teacher personally, in front of the kids, at school events, I refer to them and address them formally.
My kids call all adults Mr./Mrs./Ms./Miss, with very few exceptions. As for how kids address me, that is up to their parents, but any friends know our feelings. So there are kids who call us by first name because that is their parents preference, there are kids whose parents prefer first names but have their kids address us as Mr./Mrs. because they know its what we have our kids do, and then there are those who also have their kids always address grown-ups formally. I prefer it, I like the distinction it makes and the respect it connotes, but it doesnt bother when a kid calls me by my first name...again, its their parents' call. Sure, respect comes from behavior more than from how you refer to someone, but how you refer to someone isnt a bad place to start. And for the argument that its too tough for kids to remember last names, especially when spouses use different last names...I dont buy it especially when we proudly show off how our pre-schoolers can recite song lyrics, poems, state capitals, favorite team line-ups, etc. |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 839
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 11:45 am: |
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Rastro- My kids will call adults Mr./Mrs. It's not the adults decision on what/how my kids behave and treat the world. It's ours as the parent. When the kids get older, if an adult insists to us (the parents)that they be on a first-name basis with our children, than we'll re-visit the decision.
thegoodsgt: I noticed this last week at a Birthday party....kids were running around, and parents absolutely REFUSED to address or interact with anyone elses kid, even in DIRE SAFETY SITUATIONS. In one example, a 3 y/o kid was climbing onto a precarious table and nearly knocked the whole thing down. Another parent was standing right there (the kids parent was getting a slice of cake) and SHIELDED THEIR OWN KID, and DID NOTHING TO STOP THE KID WHO WAS IN DANGER. Totally bizarre. The result was dozens of parents hovering over their own kids, and not one interacting with another parent. I didn't like it at all. I'm not suggesting you should spank another kid, but for chrisake if he's choking, pat her on the back and try and help. |
mjc
Citizen
Username: Mjc
Post Number: 1211
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 2:37 pm: |
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Smarty, sounds awful! For the kids' sake, I hope that party was the exception!
When my kids were little, most of their friends' parents (and I) requested that the other parents treat the kids as they would treat their own as regards house rules, safety, discipline. Certainly I never hesitated to correct or redirect the friends who came visiting, and I'm sure the other parents did the same with mine. It's so effective when the kids hear the same things from their friends' parents that they hear from their own parents.
As for the name thing, our kids were taught to call adults by Mr/Mrs unless an adult specifically asked the child to use the first name. To me, it's a matter of courtesy to address people the way they want to be addressed. Very few adults (if any) asked the kids to use first names. |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 841
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 3:30 pm: |
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MJC, I haven't had a ton of exposure to other parents/situations like this yet because we're relatively new to the parenting industry....this was a first for me. The group assembled for the party all new each other through daycare, so maybe the culture of Daycare parenting had something to do with it....(ie none of the parents were actually friend, snd weren't comfortable enough to assert themselves over the other kids) but I'm not entirely sure.
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mjc
Citizen
Username: Mjc
Post Number: 1213
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 3:51 pm: |
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Honestly, to be less diplomatic about it, I think any parent, any adult, who doesn't stop any nearby 3 yo from doing something crazy/unsafe is either nuts or way too preoccupied.
Enjoy your little one(s) Smarty! I know it's hard to believe, but they're grown in the blink of an eye, so load up on those happy memories.
cheers & end of drift -
MC |
red
Citizen
Username: Redy67
Post Number: 6053
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 4:42 pm: |
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My hubby went to a party of kids similar to smarty's. He said it was unbelievable the way kids were running around, in dangerous situations, and parents were oblivious.... |
Hank Zona
Supporter
Username: Hankzona
Post Number: 5759
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 5:13 pm: |
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unfortunately, a lot of parents at times seem oblivious not because they dont want to reprimand or warn someone else's kid, but because sometimes it's as much a social event for them too...just my occasional observation from not only parties but school events. |
John James Leuchs Jr
Citizen
Username: Clairvoyant
Post Number: 95
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 5:54 pm: |
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When I taught in Newark, no one would ever dare call a teacher by his/her first name. But when I started teaching at South Mountain, 35 years ago, it was the early seventies and Summerbill and being friends with your students was in vogue. There were three fifth grade teachers who had the children call them by their first names. I always insisted that they call me "Mr. Leuchs" until they moved on to middle school. When they would ask me, "When can we call you by your first name?" I would reply, "Once you are in middle school and come back and visit." I have always been amused that only one child has ever called me by my first name more than once or twice once that point came. Then the child immediately reverts back to Mr. Leuchs. One who continued to call me John and even was still visiting me when he was in college now has reverted back to calling me, Mr. Leuchs, now that his children attend my school. Many parents call me John but never my former students. It is a little strange when some of them are in their forties but it just shows they respect me. I joke and have a lot of fun with my students. I often call them funny nicknames but I will always be Mr. Leuchs to them, except for maybe a moment when they enter middle school. |
John James Leuchs Jr
Citizen
Username: Clairvoyant
Post Number: 96
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 5:56 pm: |
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typo - Summerhill  |
John James Leuchs Jr
Citizen
Username: Clairvoyant
Post Number: 97
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 6:09 pm: |
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There are two that have become really good friends. It has been embarrassing to be out with other adults and have them keep addressing me as Mr. Leuchs. Since they won't call me John - they claim they can't - I've had to settle for Leuchs. |
Lizziecat
Citizen
Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 1299
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 8:30 pm: |
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Remember how Mary Richards (Mary Tyler Moore) couldn't call her boss "Lou?"
It was always "Mr. Grant." |
Joanne G
Citizen
Username: Joanne
Post Number: 261
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 3:13 am: |
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I guess, as has been said, so much of it is cultural. I've been reflecting on it today because a) I'm playing Koori music (indigenous Australian) and their kinship lines can be quite confusing b) I've been reflecting on Shoshanna's comments on her Brooklyn Jewish background, comparing to my traditional/Mizrachi Melbourne background c) observing modern Australian practice. I ask most people to use my given name because that's me in a way no other name is. I really don't notice or get upset if people use other versions or other names, also I do get a bit huffy if they continually persist in getting it wrong for no good reason. I'm also a touchy person - I like hugs, handholding, taps on shoulders. I smile lots, and I hold a gaze. Loads of other people don't do those things either.
On the other hand, good manners are the grease that makes society work - the more people we need to interact with each day, the more we need that grease. We need to be able to expect a certain minimal standard of language and of behaviour in order to simply get things done. We need to be able to trust that people will fulfil promises, respect boundaries, protect the more vulnerable, clean up after themselves.
I think if you're consistent in the messages you give your children, and you're open about ansering their questions as the questions come about other families' different standards, then there shouldn't be too many complications. The world is full of difference, and there's room for a lot of overlap. Anyways, most of you are welcome over here for a coffee almost any time! (you can tell it's been a loooooong day at work!) |
Nancy - LibraryLady
Supporter
Username: Librarylady
Post Number: 3614
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 9:53 am: |
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Next F2F in Australia??? |
Joanne G
Citizen
Username: Joanne
Post Number: 263
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 9:56 am: |
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oh yes please - I'd love it! (come to think of it, so would my coffee lady - she thinks I'm big-noting when I talk about you lot!) Nancy, I think David is plotting something for the end of July...can you manage it? He'd probably let you call him by his first name!  |
mlj
Citizen
Username: Mlj
Post Number: 290
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 10:28 am: |
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Scenario: There are teenage kids of divorced parents. The teenage friends of these kids address those parents as Mr. and Mrs. so&so. The divorced father remarries, and the teenage friends of the kids continue to call the divorced parents Mr. and Mrs. so&so. However, the new wife/stepmother is called by her first name by the kids' teenage friends. (btw, the new wife/stepmother is the same age as the divorced parents) What do you think of that? |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 844
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 10:29 am: |
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I think one component of adults who want children to be "their friends" and to be casual/informal/first name basis, is the misperception that we are frozen at our current age, and all children will be growing and maturing until they meet us where we are today in age/wisdom/maturity.
I can see that in my colleagues, in the way they talk about how it will be when the kids grow up. Unfortunately, we know this isn't true, and the gap between us and the young-uns will never shrink, and when the kids are 15-20 years older/maturer, we'll all be 15-20 years older/wiser/maturer too, and forever several stages further in life than they are.
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Joanne G
Citizen
Username: Joanne
Post Number: 265
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 10:46 am: |
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Well, again, that's only true if the reason you want given-names useage is tos tay young. In my case it isn't - it's just simpler to be known by one name all the time everywhere I go.
I do get your point. And if we lived close enough to each other and interacted in real life, we'd reach a compromise we'd both be able to live with. Please jsut don't think it's always a lack of standards or/and a wish to remain unnaturally youthful. |
Joanne G
Citizen
Username: Joanne
Post Number: 266
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 10:47 am: |
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and pls forgive the bad spelling - it's almost 1 a.m. here and I should be in bed, sleeping! |
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