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Starletta8
Supporter
Username: Starletta8
Post Number: 183
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 12:57 am: | 
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spw's post summs up how it works. It's very painless to get a temporary placard if you legitimately need the assistance.
But let me specify something: I actually use a temporary placard even though my medical condition is not likely to change (barring a miracle cure).
It's just that I can still move around really well (so well that you wouldn't know anything's wrong most of the time) that I want to free up the spaces for those who are struggling more than I am. My condition is exacerbated by heat and humidity, so that's the time of year where I need a little help. Otherwise I'm happy to walk.
Unfortunately, someday I'll probably need a license plate or a permanent placard, but I'll go temporary while I still can. If I had a problem after my temporary placard is expired, I'd simply ask my doctor. But if I'm having serious problems outside of the summer, I probably won't be driving (since I have a lot of damage to the nerve signals leading to my legs). I'd rather wait until I feel confident in my reflexes and won't be a hazard to anyone on the road, including myself. |
Duncan
Supporter
Username: Duncanrogers
Post Number: 6686
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 11:12 am: |
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Thank you all for clearing that up. It makes sense you would want one that could move from car to car. My father had "his" car and my mom had "her" car and none of us, until the end there, ever had to use my fathers car to take him somewhere.
I understand now. Thank you all for clearing it up.
And JoannaG if you post was aimed at me, I certainly didn't mean to offend you as much as it appears I did. I was genuinely asking the question. If you read it as some sort of mocking post, let me assure you it was not that in any way shape or form. I am sorry if you read it as such. |
Joanne G
Citizen
Username: Joanne
Post Number: 311
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 11:59 am: |
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Duncan, I wasn't swiping at you. However, many of the other posters are displaying attitudes that amaze me as I had believed we were over this years ago. This thread is full of the same old stereotypes we've rehashed as a society for decades - and, to be fair, we are re-hashing the some of the same misguided beliefs in this part of the world right now too. Just not in regard to parking, as much as removing the national building code requirement for anything above ground level to be accessible by means other than staircases, for example. Or people thinking that anytime you need an accessible front or back door, you need to instal an ugly ramp, when a landscaped, beaten earth ramp, or smooth concreted ground-level wide entry is good enough and stylish too.
The City of Melbourne opened a major public space known as Federation Square in time for the Commonwealth Games earlier this year (parts were opened over the last few years, as it was a huge redevelopment of an old railway works yard). There was an international competition for this public space and it houses important public buildings and offices as well as gathering spaces for events such as celebrations, marches, memorial services etc. It contains some brilliant anti-graffiti, anti-vandalism and anti-skateboarding devices - all of which help to disguise the more than 75 illegal and potentially fatal violations of the national building codes on accessible building access. (in particular, in Fed Square you can't use a wheelchair to go above the slightest incline, to reach the lifts to take you into the offices! If the tyres on your wheels survive the rough cobbles designed to deter skateboarders, and your wheelchair can handle the incline, the surface is littered with unpredictable and hard-to-see changes in level so you can overbalance and fall out of your chair.)
Then there's the idea that people with disabilities need to self-disclose all the time, everywhere they go so that modern lack of courtesy and good manners can be blamed on them instead of planners just not stopping to think what people really need. So people who mutter and hold events in noisy environments and can't be bothered using voice enhancing equipment for workshops 'because we're a small group aren't we?' get offended when three people with hearing loss comment that they would have like formal notes or handouts to accompany the sessions (as an example), or the notes aren't provided in large print or audio-cassette or digital format for people with vision loss, yet it's easy enough to find out those needs on enrolment applications. We did this stuff in the conference industry 40 years ago (I edited them in the 80s), as part of the standard fee, yet hardly think of routinely providing all information in alternative formats now.
Guess you can tell I work in disability rights, eh?  |
Psychomom
Citizen
Username: Psychomom
Post Number: 282
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 12:20 pm: |
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I became much more acutely aware of the difficulty for wheelchair access when I was a mom pushing a double stroller. Many stores aisles were not wide enough, particularly clothing stores. Steps to get into doctors offices, church etc.
I remember thinking how would I ever do it in a wheelchair if I couldn't navigate on two feet? |
Joanne G
Citizen
Username: Joanne
Post Number: 315
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 12:38 pm: |
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Which is the point our access groups make - it's not just disability access, it's access for all. Our shopping centre carparks have special spots designated for parents with strollers; mini-vans & mini-buses; etc. Buildings suitable for people with limited mobility are also good for people who are elderly or recovering from injury or are managing several children at once. Captions on movies are not only good for people with difficulty hearing due to disability or injury or illness, they're great for people who have difficulty with spoken English. Audio description loops are great for people with low vision and for people who are unfamiliar with the area or exhibition, without intruding on everyone else.
Catering for all this boosts profit dollars, yet even the businesses that provide great access don't publicise it. Does your Target have family access fitting rooms? Ours do - handrails, chairs, extra light, locakable doors, loads of room for wheelchairs, strollers, extra hanging space; you could fit 4 or 5 people in their of all ages easily. But they don't publicise it! |
twig
Citizen
Username: Twig
Post Number: 187
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 1:58 pm: |
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"However, many of the other posters are displaying attitudes that amaze me as I had believed we were over this years ago." - Joanne G
Joanne - I really am not seeing the sort of negative attitudinal theme that you are noting. It seems to me that only 1 or 2 posters appear to question the need for reserved parking spaces for persons with disabilities. Conversely, many posters have written about the need to be aware that not all disabilities are apparent.
I wanted only to express my concern that some people who have no disability whatsoever are using these spaces by somehow inappropriately obtaining/borrowing a tag, manufacturing a tag, or simply parking there without a tag. Doing that not only is illegal but also morally reprehensible. So, I hope that my suspicions that some totally non-disabled persons are engaging in this nefarious behavior are not being interpreted as tantamount to "accusing" people who may have a legitimate, although not apparent, disability of somehow scamming the system. I truly don't expect everyone parking in a space to have an obvious mobility impairment. All I would like is for these spaces to be available for persons who need them...not to be taken over by louts who have printed up a fake tag on their computer or are using their grandmother's tag for a day at the mall. I have to say that reading the posts on this thread has, to some extent, allayed my suspicions. It may very well be that these practices are not as prevalent as I initially had thought. |
Joanne G
Citizen
Username: Joanne
Post Number: 316
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 5:50 pm: |
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Twig, it's thanks to brave people like you asking questions that we can have the debates that uncover hidden misunderstanding and confusion, and also challenge the people with unflichingly hardline literalist or antiquated views on the need for peopel with disabilities to others look after them in all aspects of life, and that we need to isolate them (the people with disabilities).
It's great to see the amount of personal story coming out on this thread but someone like Starletta shouldn't have to declare 'it's none of your business' and justify it, because it ISN'T our business. She'd (?) made her point. spw and the others also.
Regrdless, debate itself is healthy. You just catch me mainly at the end of very long days when my head is already full of all this stuff, and I've been battling the thick heads of some obstinate property developers and policy planners. I'm now off to work for another oone of those (not working at the U3A type job today, but disability rights) |
Starletta8
Supporter
Username: Starletta8
Post Number: 184
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 1:29 am: |
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Joanne,
I often feel like I have to put that disclaimer since I am a young woman. Generally, people expect the people driving a car with a handicap placard to be older or visibly disabled. I'm neither- and I'm exactly the person that people would likely to think is scamming the system. In reality, I'd give anything to get back the invincibility that one's supposed to be feeling in his or her 20s.
Instead, I've got a harsh dose of reality and have had to change my entire life.
And I've felt people's glares as I exited my car when using an accessible parking space. It makes me feel like a lowlife even though I'm using it legitimately. And yes, that's happened in South Orange. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 12058
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 7:50 am: |
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Starletta, this is in very bad taste, but stop by Drug Fair and buy a cheap cane. Lean on it while exiting your car. This should stop the nosy people from bothering you.  |
mjh
Supporter
Username: Mjh
Post Number: 652
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 8:30 am: |
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Starletta,
The cane is a good idea, but only to use as a weapon. Whop up the side of the head . |
Starletta8
Supporter
Username: Starletta8
Post Number: 185
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 2:23 pm: |
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I actually have a cane in my car at all times- in case I need it when away from home.
But why should I have to carry it for others? It's a PITA to lug around when you don't need it.
And that's my point. |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3535
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 4:21 pm: |
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I have nothing but disgust for non-handicapped people who use parking spaces reserved for the handicapped, but I'm also kind of disgusted by how readily some of you assume that a huge amount of his abuse is going on.
If you see somebody littering, well, there's little room for doubt about that. I wholeheartedly support you if you feel behooved to berate that person for their lawbreaking and lack of consideration. On the other hand, if you see someone who parks in a spot reserved for the handicapped, and they don't seem handicapped to you, my suggestion is to mind your own business. |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 7747
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 5:33 pm: |
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Kevin:
There are four handicapped spaces in the NJT pay lot ($3 a day) at the Maplewood train station. They are first come first served and don't require a permit. Most days, only one of these spots is taken by the time I board my morning train.
Problem for some persons with disabilities is boarding the train at Maplewood Station since it is necessary to climb several steps to enter the cars but I have seen persons with limited motion board fairly easily though some may require a bit of help from the conductor or a fellow passenger. |
Lizziecat
Citizen
Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 1312
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 5:55 pm: |
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So this is a sort of funny story that is a bit off topic but not all off. I have a bad knee and sometimes use a cane. About a year ago I was walking with my cane to my car in the Whole Foods parking lot. I was wearing the prescription sunglasses that I use for driving, even though it was a cloudy day. All of a sudden, a man came up to me and took me by the arm. He asked me where I was going, and I said "just to the purple jeep." He held my arm as I walked over. I unlocked the car, and he insisted on putting my groceries in. I thanked him, got behind the wheel and drove off. The guy stood there, looking amazed, with his jaw hanging open. I realized that he had thought I was blind--cloudy day, dark glasses, cane--and there I was, driving away.
I don't have a handicapped tag. Sometimes I wish I did, especially when it's a long way to walk and my knee is hurting, but I'm glad to be able to get around on my own steam, even if someone thinks I'm blind. |
kevin
Supporter
Username: Kevin
Post Number: 777
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 8:20 pm: |
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Thanks Joan. One of my concerns was that the handicap spots on the town road (Sloan St) would best be utilized by handicap patrons of the local businesses in town instead being occupied for 12 hours a day by someone who has the proper handicap tag but uses the space as commuter parking.
There are empty handicap spaces in the commuter lot and I assumed that they were put there for people who would be commuting.
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Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5610
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 12:57 am: |
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As someone with handicapped license plates, who rarely parks in a handicap space, I understand some people don't 'look handicapped. But my experiences with people illegally parking in a clearly marked space really took the cake tonight. (Even more so then when a volunteer firefighter from another community parked in a clearly marked space while working his for pay job; which involved heavy lifting.)
About the only time I go into the South Orange Pathmark is when one of my nephews or I want some fried chicken. One of the main reasons is the parking situation. After tonight's game (which we won); my nephew asked if we could get chicken. Sure, why not, I tell him. Mommy's not around to yell at us for eating it.
I pull into the Pathmark parking lot, which is a mess as usual. Pathmark is one of the few places I use the handicap spots. I had to drive around three times before I even saw someone getting ready to leave their handicapped spot; there weren't even any regular spots at all. now.
I tend to look at the mirrors for a hang tag, or the wheelchair on the plate of cars are parked in handicapped spots. Looking for trouble maybe, I don't know. Tonight, I had notice the first car in the row did not have a hang tag. I also noticed the plates were not handicap plates. Worse they were US Government plates! With "For official use only," on the license plate!
Hmmm, I'm thinking. What kind of 'official business' could someone have a little after 8pm in the South Orange Pathmark?! I figure, since I'm parked right next to the car, I'd ask the young man sitting in the driver's seat. The window was slightly open so I said 'Excuse me.' After he looked at me I asked if he was here on official business; to which he replied "Yes." (Yeah right I thought) "Ah, do you realize you're in a handicap spot?" I asked. "So," he responds. "Ah, well do you have a handicap placard?" I ask? "No," he tells me.
Well, he had on some kind of uniform, so I asked if he was a State Trooper. To which he said "No." "Well, you shouldn't be parked here then. I think you should move." That's not happening he tells me. Well, okay then whatever, I tell him as I snap his picture. I also snapped a picture of the license plate. and of one showing the car in the spot with the sign visible.
As I'm doing this a woman walks toward the car with a bag of food. I said "Excuse me, can you please tell me what official business you are here on?" To which she says she has no clue what I'm talking about. I pointed out the car she was a passenger in was a government car that is supposed to only be used for official business and not only that, but the car is in a handicapped place.
I then asked if she was disabled to which she responded "do I look f ing disabled to you?" I asked if she wasn't disabled why they are parked there? She pretty much told me to mind my own f ing business.
One of my friends tells me I should call Corzine's Office about this. (And for those who love to doubt what I say, here are the pictures to prove it).
[EDITED]
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us2inFL
Citizen
Username: Us2innj
Post Number: 1469
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 5:08 am: |
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Maybe she was in Pathmark getting some at-home orthodontia kit. That overbite looks nasty.
Keep up the good work JTA. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5613
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 6:46 am: |
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I spoke with the State Police to ask their advice. The officer ran the plate and told me the car came back registered in Washington, DC to the Navy. It seems it's assigned to a recruiter. I was encouraged to 1) Call a number he gave me to report the abuse of both the car's use and 2) the parking in the handicap space. He also encouraged me bring the pictures to the South Orange Court so a ticket can be issued. I told him I was reluctant to do this because the state budget is already a mess. The officer I spoke with said in situations like this the driver of the car would have to pay the ticket out of their own pocket.
So, do I do this or let it go? IMHO just because the driver works for the government, it doesn't give them the right to break the law. Right? Suggestions? |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 12094
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 7:34 am: |
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I honestly have mixed feelings about posting picftures of individuals over something like this. Yeah, he was standing in a handicapped space, but this isn't a felony and in the end it is an illegal parking offense, if that since the driver was in the car. The guy in the car is a Navy petty officer and probably assigned to recruiting duty.
I also don't see how the state is involved, other than running the plate for you. The car belongs to the Federal government, the good old USA. |
ess
Citizen
Username: Ess
Post Number: 2624
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 8:21 am: |
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Hmmm, I sort of agree with BobK.
Not sure if posting people's photos online without their consent (or knowledge) is the appropriate tactic here. Yes, the driver committed an illegal parking offense, and yes, the driver and the passenger were both quite rude, but posting their photos?
Now, providing the photos to the South Orange Court is probably not a bad idea. Let the court decide what to do (issuing tickets for illegal parking is, in fact, what they do).
Introducing the condition of the state budget seems superfluous in this context. Either express your indignance over the way the handicapped parking space was misused by reporting the violation to the one branch of government that can actually do something about it, or bitch the perps out here and let it go.
(I would go one step further and ask that the photos be removed, but that's just me and my right to privacy talking.) |
Joanne G
Citizen
Username: Joanne
Post Number: 329
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 8:23 am: |
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FWIW, I'd certainly phone: they did the wrong thing and you, the public, are their employers. Further, they were rude. Further, you were legally entitled to park there and they not only weren't, they deprived you, which is against your discrimination legislation.
It's the principle which is at stake, and it's a fundamental principle of what I understand as your notion of democracy and of social responsibility. You should be able to lodge your complaint as an anonymous or confidential one. However people should know that it isn't worth doing the worng thing because it comes back to bite and haunt you.
Such a pity there aren't time/date stamps on the pics... |
Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 2551
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 8:45 am: |
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JTA,
I’m not defending the parking, but the Official Business. As a recruiter, part of that Petty Officer first class’ Official Duties is to wear his uniform out on his daily business (Like shopping, Post office runs, etc). There are some things you can’t do with that car (Park within a set distance of a liquor store, adult business, etc). So in my opinion and 6 years in the Navy say it was ok to use the car.
About the parking, my suggestion is that you call a local recruiting office, tell them the plate number and date / time. This Petty Officer will learn his lesion from the Chief of the center. Not sure the courts would be very helpful. When you call you’re looking to speak to the Officer in charge, or the chief of command.
You can get their number from the Phone book, in the blue pages.
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Pippi
Supporter
Username: Pippi
Post Number: 2558
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 2:59 pm: |
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JGA - you should be more careful. Those kind of vigilante tactics could get you hurt. Some people wouldn't have taken too kindly to your actions. You can't go chasing around everyone who parks illegally, nor can they all be punished. The guy should have moved after you called him out, but he was a jerk and he didn't. In this particular instance I might contact the Navy. What if they guy was just a guy and not in uniform? Then what would your recourse be?
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Joanne G
Citizen
Username: Joanne
Post Number: 331
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 4:51 pm: |
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You can't go chasing around everyone who parks illegally, nor can they all be punished.
The point is that we should be able to do so, discreetly. Saying something like 'perhaps there was a valid reason I couldn't determine, however this gentleman was also rude'. What's at stake are your society's core values: the principle of abuse of power and the principle of assumption of anonymity that gives clearance to break the law ('no-one knows my car', 'no-one recognises me in this uniform' etc). That's wrong. That's how wrong-doers get away with it. And your taxes get higher because no-one says or does anything to prevent them getting away with it.
If the vehicle isn't an identifiable vehicle (e.g. a work vehicle) you contact whoever is meant to police the parking regulations, with the number plate details and parking location, date and time. If it is an identifiable vehicle then contact the boss of the company. In writing rather than phoning, if you wish - you can choose not to display your contact details.
This is as serious as the laws on driving while talking with your mobile phone (cell phone?) in your hand, as serious as the safety laws in the workplace, as more serious than washing your hands after you use the toilet then go to the kitchen or stealing from your boss. Silly as it sounds, sometimes people's lives DO depend on them. And it's law. If you pride yourself on being thoughtful of others, you don't park in designated parking bays unless entitled (and a military uniform or govt car does not entitle you), and you move when challenged. |
twig
Citizen
Username: Twig
Post Number: 188
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 9:20 pm: |
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Just the Aunt - Apparently, an ordinary citizen can do something in NJ.
The Asbury Park Press(04/27/06) and the Associated Press (don't have exact date but it was written about the same time) both recently ran articles about Maryann Cottrell of Glassboro. She is the mother of a handicapped child who became outraged at the illegal parking in handicapped spots in her town and decided to do something about it. When she noticed someone continually parking in a handicapped parking space without having a proper hang-tag or license plate in her hometown, she asked a police officer to cite the perpetrator. According to the article: "The officer told her that under the law she could do that herself". Apparently, under New Jersey law, any citizen is allowed to report handicapped parking violators, and police and prosecutors are required to take them to court if a complaint with compelling evidence is submitted. In the past year or so, Ms. Cottrell has cited over 300 illegal parkers in handicapped spaces in her small community, taking pictures as photographic evidence to support her complaints. In fact, two of those whom she has found parking illegally and filed complaints against were Philadelphia Eagles Donovan McNabb and Jeremiah Trotter. (Trotter did the right thing, admitted his guilt and actually gave Ms. Cottrell a donation to fund her work!)
Furthermore, the Town of Huntington on Long Island collects about $90,000 a year in fines from persons caught parking illegally in handicap spaces through a team of volunteers who take pictures and submit complaints to local police according to Councilman Mark Cuthbertson.
Several posters on this thread have rightfully suggested that we don't know the magnitude of this problem - perhaps this isn't that significant. But, the police may have a better sense of the magnitude. According to a Dec. 2004 NY Times article about a crackdown on illegal parking in handicap spaces in Suffolk County on Long Island, about 5,000 tickets were handed out in the period running from a few days before Thanksgiving until a few days after Christman that year. About 4,000 were issued the year before. (that's 5000 tickets in one NY county over only about a six week period!)
In that same article, Bruce Blower, the Director of Handicap Services in Suffolk County was quoted as follows: "Police estimate that 20 to 30 percent of the people who park illegally are using a permit that belongs to a relative, he said. And who should know better the need for these spots than someone who has a disabled person in their household?"
In a several day sweep conducted at the Roosevelt Field Shopping Mall in 2002, almost 90 persons were cited for illegally parking in handicapped spaces in those few days.
Of course, such anecdotal evidence is just that and cannot provide an accurate sense of whether this is a rampant problem in NJ. But, honestly...what do you think? Are we that different than Long Island?}} |
Jersey_Boy
Citizen
Username: Jersey_boy
Post Number: 1379
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 11:50 pm: |
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If a person with handicapped access hang tags leaves their car and shops without any visible difficulty, doesn't that mean the handicapped parking worked?
J.B. |
combustion
Citizen
Username: Spontaneous
Post Number: 227
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 2:26 am: |
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A few years ago I injured my foot and was on crutches for a month. Because it was my left foot I was still able to drive, after switching my manual for my then-boyfriend's automatic that is. I never inquired about a temporary handicapped placard. I was pretty good (and fast) on those crutches and it never occurred to me to look into it. |
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