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Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 1017
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 1:52 pm: | 
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How do you feel about that?
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/07/12/barrett |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14962
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 10:29 pm: |
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College is the place for crazy ideas. Students have to develop the strength to choose which ones to reject. That's why academic freedom is a good thing.
The antidote to bad speech is more good speech, not censorship.
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Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 1411
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 10:37 pm: |
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I wouldn't be surprised at all if the US government plotted the 9/11 attacks.
They had no way of faking the deaths of that many people...so they would have had to do it for real. |
Nohero
Supporter
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 5605
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 11:22 pm: |
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One crazy professor with crackpot theories about 9-11 doesn't really bother me - the young adults in his class can deal with him.
Crazy ideologues with crackpot theories about WMDs are a different story, of course. They can cause a little more damage, as we have seen. |
Jersey_Boy
Citizen
Username: Jersey_boy
Post Number: 1383
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 11:44 pm: |
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Doesn't our own Foj hold the same beliefs?
J.B. |
Peter G. Magic
Citizen
Username: Pmagic
Post Number: 165
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 11:54 pm: |
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Can a professor with such ideas still be a successful teacher? I have my doubts. How do students know what is factual in his class? Is it okay to have a professor teaching who denies that the Holocaust took place? Again, I would have a problem with that professor. I fully agree with their rights to express their ideas and publish them. But I question them as teachers... |
Peter G. Magic
Citizen
Username: Pmagic
Post Number: 166
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 12:08 am: |
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And let me add to that the "teachers" who don't believe in evolution. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14963
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 7:08 am: |
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Professors are not school teachers. School teachers should teach the truth, as societal consensus knows it. Crackpot theories are OK at the college level. The students can figure them out. These professors can still grade a student on the quality of his essay and can give him a good argument. A good argument doesn't need to be "true." It's about the quality of the reasoning.
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Peter G. Magic
Citizen
Username: Pmagic
Post Number: 167
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 7:35 am: |
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If the one truth gets distorted, others will also. How will a student know when actual facts are being presented or the professor is skewing the data to illustrate his/her position? In this particular case I would be willing to bet that most of the notions connected with muslim extremists are not presented realistically. |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 10097
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 7:48 am: |
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Looks like the college is seeking a replacement.
http://www.ohr.wisc.edu/pvl/pv_053061.html
note the A period of evaluation will be required |
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 1415
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 8:21 am: |
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I'm still not seeing how it is a crackpot theory. Think about it. Bush wants money to go nab oil interests...he's never going to get it any normal way. So they fake a terrorist attack, squeeze billions and billions out of congress, and begin multiple overseas campaigns to seize oil interests which whill make him loads of money. HMMM.
Crackpot? Not really. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 8338
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 8:32 am: |
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If he is not advocating violence against a certain class of people, I think that college is a great place for him. My best classes were full of spirited opinion and debate. If you can't explore wild and unpopular positions in university, where can you? Isn't that part of the point? To be sure, I took some positions that I have relaxed or reconsidered as my youth slipped away. But I don't recall students sitting there, unquestioning and hypnotized by the professor's "pearls of wisdom".
It's not like this guy is teachig an engineering class, where exact science is the topic.
If this guy, along with the unintelligent designers and fauxlocausters can provide hard, scientific evidence of their theories, why hide them? I frankly think that this guy will have an easier time finding proof of Bin-Laden's connection to the CIA than God sending angels to sprinkle babies over cabbage patches.
I took a class called the "Philosophy of Love and Sex" many years ago. We debated things like the "morality of bestiality" and "whether anyone knew if they were singularly gay or straight". AFAIK, not one student took a sheep on a date after the semester was over. As for the gay/str8 thing, I concluded that I would know when I died, since I had no way of predicting (at the age of 20) who I would be attracted to at any point in the future. |
Spinal Tap
Citizen
Username: Spinaltap11
Post Number: 42
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 8:55 am: |
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I know. The nerve of these crackpots:
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998.
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998.
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999.
"There is no doubt that . Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec, 5, 2001.
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (d, MI), Sept. 19, 2002.
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seing and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002.
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002.
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years . We also should remember we have alway s underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockerfeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002,
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do."
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002.
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction. "[W]ithout question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he has continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14966
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 8:55 am: |
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Yup, they were wrong. And so was the president. Should we forgive them all or maintain our anger over their mistakes?
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Peter G. Magic
Citizen
Username: Pmagic
Post Number: 168
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 9:00 am: |
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Greenetree, let's get serious! How can YOU say that none of the other students dated any sheep or animals after the course? Do you think they really would have told you? The animals can't communicate effectively... there may have been several date rape incidents after that course. ... |
Cougar86
Citizen
Username: Cougar86
Post Number: 19
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 9:02 am: |
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perhaps we should do everything in our power to make sure it doesn't happen agin? |
Spinal Tap
Citizen
Username: Spinaltap11
Post Number: 43
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 9:02 am: |
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Forgive them for what? For doing their best to protect the nation based on intelligence information given to them by not only our intelligence agencies but by the entire world's intelligence agencies for the past 10 years? What benefit do we derive by continuing to be angry with them? |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14968
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 9:04 am: |
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Hmm, maybe you're right. So let's not talk about nerve or call them crackpots.
However, at a certain point, being right enough is not enough. You have to be right if you're going to wage war. Professors don't wage war.
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Cougar86
Citizen
Username: Cougar86
Post Number: 20
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 11:28 am: |
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given the choice I'd prefer leaders always look at the worst case scenario when it comes to matter of national security. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14978
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 11:38 am: |
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Are you OK with them creating the worst case scenario?
Do you think it would be OK if the police broke into your house and accidentally killed one of your kids because they mistook you for a drug dealer? It's possible that they could have gotten the right guy, and it just happens that they got the wrong one. But they were preparing for the worst case.
Tell us why this scenario isn't actually a good idea.
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Cougar86
Citizen
Username: Cougar86
Post Number: 22
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 12:12 pm: |
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of course not but if I stood in my house shouting that I had a bomb big enough to blow up the entire town and all my neighbors said I had a bomb big enough to blow up the entire town and I had previously built and blown up bombs big enough to blow up my town then perhaps the use of force to remove me might be a bit more justified.
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Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 1030
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 1:17 pm: |
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First of all...sprited debates are a wonderful way to expand a young persons horizon. However this professor is not interested in a debate. He has made up his mind about what he thinks.
Glock: So those 11 middle eastern men that where caught on tape boarding the planes after the took flying lessons in this country and celebrated the night before, oh and were discribed in last minute phone calls by doomed passengers were commiting suicide on behalf of Bush?
I was transfered to Germany for three months during the summer of 2002 and one night on my way home from the office I stopped to buy a hot dog at a stand. The guy was middle eastern and asked me were I was from so I told him I was from New York. He informed me that "they" know that 9/11 was a total Hollywood special effects deal because their teacher and spiritual leader in Frankfurt went to New York to see the damage for himself and came back with pictures of the twin towers and told them that it was all a lie and the buildings are still standing. I informed him that this is not the case and that I am not sure what his mullah is telling him but that the buildings collapsed and almost 3,000 people perished. I also said that I think his mullah is trying to feed them incorrect information on purpose. He respondet by telling me that he understands that I have to lie for my country and I informed him that although I live in New York I am an Austria Citizen and consider myself as such. His answer was: It doesn't really matter what you think or say or if you are american or austrian because you are a woman and with that your excistence means less then a dogs. You words and thoughts do not count in my world. I walked away because there was nothing left to say.
The other consideration has to be given that there might be a student out there who will run with this because he might think that it is true. Some students might not just listen and argue their point but are inadvertantely looking to find a venue to become extremist. Look at Timmothy McVay (spelling?) |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 6445
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 1:24 pm: |
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Most people who buy into conspiracy theories were abused as children. |
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 1416
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 1:27 pm: |
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Yeah, don't buy your story at all, Bajou.
Need I do more than quote the president himself?
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004
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Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1652
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 2:01 pm: |
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Bajou - the man is highly qualified and as a professor he is entitled to express his point of view to his students. At the college level the discourse can be quite diverse and challenging. We are not talking about religious brainwashing and extremist organizations that already have people willing to believe the things they hear on faith.
The fact of the matter is that 9/11 has a far greater number of unknowns then knowns. There appear to have been coverups all over the place and there are a large number body of evidence pointing to potential government complicity, either in intentionally ignoring the signals of the impending attack to the erasure, misplacement and mismanagement of evidence after the attacks.
Professors are certainly and should certainly be allowed to teach their classes from their perspectives. Our college kids have the responsibility to themselves to decide if these professors are on point or out of their minds. |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 6446
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 2:16 pm: |
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I agree with the smart people:
"The vast majority of academics who have spoken out about the case have dismissed his theories as absurd..."
This guy should NOT be teaching. |
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 1417
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 2:52 pm: |
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His theories aren't his lesson plans. If the man is qualified to teach...let him teach.
Mem, you really need to step back and realize the two are seperate. |
3ringale
Citizen
Username: Threeringale
Post Number: 295
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 2:58 pm: |
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No one seems to have noticed that the U. of Wisconsin is a state funded institution. Academic freedom is fine and dandy, but if you take the King's shilling, you had better be ready to dance to the King's tune. Government funding of higher education is problematic, in my opinion.
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Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1653
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 3:29 pm: |
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If this were a monarchy you might be right. Today the bill of rights is still in effect and therefore King George has very little to say about what is said within the confines of ones classroom. As long as the curriculum is followed according to the class then this college professor can claim whatever it is that he would like to.
Quote:In his announcement that Barrett’s plans for the fall course would be reviewed, Farrell stressed the fact that Barrett had talked about views he would share in class. “Mr. Barrett is entitled to his own personal political views. But we also have an obligation to ensure that his course content is academically appropriate, of high quality, and that his personal views are not imposed on his students,” Farrell said.
The review will include the planned syllabus, the reading list, and past teaching evaluations. Farrell said this review was appropriate to deal with “legitimate concerns about the content and quality of instruction.”
So what we have here is a monitored and controversial class, probably in the political science department where ideas are argued and debated appropriately. I dont see any problem here.
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3ringale
Citizen
Username: Threeringale
Post Number: 298
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 3:47 pm: |
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Hoops,
I didn't have Mr. Bush in mind when I mentioned the King's shilling. I think it is just an old saying with no specific referent. I would not have a problem if a Catholic University dealt with a teacher who rejected Papal authority. I would not muzzle this guy any more than I would an avant-garde artist who wanted to make some dung-encrusted "statement" to epater le bourgeois. Knock yourself out, but not on my dime. Maybe George Soros should use some of his ill-gotten gains and start a university and give this guy an endowed chair.
Let a hundred flowers bloom!
Cheers
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Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 1033
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 4:17 pm: |
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Here is what Kevin Barrett does in his free time:
REad and weep and then tell me you want him to teach your children.
http://mujca.com/
and
http://www.planetization.org/membership.htm
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Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1656
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 6:45 pm: |
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Bajou - besides being poorly designed websites, I cant see any reason why his position on 9/11 and world peace would prevent him from teaching a political science class.
His who we are page says -
Quote:In the classic film Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid , the outlaws, who are being pursued by a very persistent posse, keep asking: "Who ARE these guys?" We imagine that certain 9/11 complicit agents are asking themselves the same question. So in the interest of saving the taxpayers' dollars that are funding their research time, we hereby offer a succinct overview of just who these MUJCA-NET guys and gals are.
MUJCA-NET was founded by Dr. Kevin Barrett of Madison, Wisconsin, a scholar of Islam and literature, and Imam Faiz Khan M.D. of New York City, a 9/11 first responder who teaches at Long Island Jewish Hospital. Both have been appalled by 9/11 and the ever-increasing violence it has brought us, and both are particularly unhappy with the silence of their fellow Muslims on 9/11 truth. Their Open Letter to Our Brothers and Sisters in the Abrahamic Tradition expresses their views on 9/11 truth and the reasons an interfaith effort like MUJCA-NET is so necessary.
The other endorsers of MUJCA-NET do not necessarily agree with all of the co-founders’positions. (Indeed, the co-founders themselves do not hold precisely identical views on everything.) But all of us at MUJCA-NETrecognize that the gaping holes in the official 9/11 story mandate a new and genuine investigation aimed specifically at either confirming or refuting allegations of official complicity.
So he is trying to build a coalition that is multi faceted, from all faiths where people want to be told the truth.
I have no problem with it. I dont see why you do. |
Soda
Supporter
Username: Soda
Post Number: 4030
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 7:57 pm: |
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Here's one of my personal faves:
-s.
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J. Crohn
Supporter
Username: Jcrohn
Post Number: 2551
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 2:06 pm: |
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Bajou: "His answer was: It doesn't really matter what you think or say or if you are american or austrian because you are a woman and with that your excistence means less then a dogs. You words and thoughts do not count in my world."
And that, perhaps, is why he is a lowly vendor of tube meat.
Before walking away, you should have asked him, "Are these hotdogs even halal?"
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