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TopDown
Citizen
Username: New_2_nj
Post Number: 14
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 12:31 pm: | 
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I'm not sure if this belongs here, but I'm interested in hearing people's work experiences in NJ.
I'm getting really tired of taking the 7am train into the city and being thankful if I'm able to get back to Maplewood by 8pm (it's often later). It's not the commute that I mind - it's the 10+ hours at my desk!!! For some reason, I have this image of working in NJ as more of a 9-5 gig (ok, probably not THAT good, but you know what I mean). Much more pleasant, much more lifestyle oriented. Is this your experience or am I completely out of my gourd? We don't have kids yet, but with our current working lifestyle (hubster's in the same boat, but his hours are even worse) it seems completely and totally out of the question. Something has to change! For what it's worth, I work at a major media corporation, but I could do what I do at pretty much any decent sized company (pharma, retail, etc).
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joy
Citizen
Username: Joy
Post Number: 555
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 12:51 pm: |
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Been there.
You need to look at where you work, what you do, what you like about it.
The location doesn't matter.
I work in media and have a 8am to 4pm work day - add an hour commute each side.
However I have good managers and good company policy on the work/life balance -it keeps me from looking elsewhere. But it is not perfect and I still feel that I have to make choices btw work and family and that as a working mom - I'm penalized for the lack of face time/'commitment'. But I've made my peace with the current situation.
You have to change. You have accepted the long hours. PL BGS - she's a headhunter. Prehaphs she can be a sounding board for you.
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Wendyn
Supporter
Username: Wendyn
Post Number: 3175
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 1:00 pm: |
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Top, you have to make your own life balance. It doesn't matter where you work but how you approach your career.
If you want to rise up in your company, you need to work long hours and be the go-to-person. You have to make sure you show your face at meetings/functions. Make sure you ask for highly visable assignments. You know the drill.
If you are happy/comfortable at your level, you can work 8-9 hours a day and get by. Do the work assigned to you. Don't go after high profile projects. Don't say things like "wow, that sounds really interesting. I'd like to be involved in that".
I always thought I would be a career track kind of gal, but I'm realizing I make enough money to have the things I want without killing myself. And I don't get any more satisfaction out of my job if I work an extra 10 hours a week. I think it was when I worked my a** off one year on a major project and got an especially big raise that year. A whole 1% more than most people got. Yes, I got a 4% raise! Oh but don't forget that $50 gift card! Wahoo!
For me it just isn't worth it. But my husband gets a lot more mental (and monatary) satisfaction out of his job. So he puts in the longer hours. Works for him. Last month I took an official step back and cut my hours to part time because of the kids.
I will say that the commute makes a HUGE difference. My husband and I both worked (up until a month ago when I switched to part time) about 9 hours a day. My commute is 15 min to Union county. His is about an hour door to door to midtown. So I get 1.5 more "leisure time" hours per day than he does.
Good luck in whatever you decide! |
TopDown
Citizen
Username: New_2_nj
Post Number: 15
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 1, 2006 - 9:49 pm: |
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Thanks for the responses (as I post from the office - takin' a little break!). It's pretty much socially unacceptable not to be a "team player" around here. In fact, just "doing your job" would result in a "below expectations" review. Luckily the people here are great to work with because lately I feel these hours are like eating a great, big, fat •••• sandwich and I'm REALLY full. |
Ceidefields
Citizen
Username: Ceidefields
Post Number: 48
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, August 5, 2006 - 10:52 pm: |
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TopDown - I completely understand where you're coming from. I moved jobs from NYC to Jersey and STILL worked in an office where the culture involved an 18 hour work day and constantly being on call. I took a step back and thought long and hard about what sort of job I wanted to do under what sort of conditions. Then I carefully looked for that job - and I found it. Needless to say it didn't involve a culture of being married to work. I also realized that working in a high pressure environment made me feel like a valuable and dedicated worker when in fact I ended up being the big loser and the company the big winner. |
Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 3040
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 6, 2006 - 7:31 am: |
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If you can, consider a radical relocation. Similar work in other cities and suburbs may not have the same work hours requirement. You will likely take home a smaller paycheck (20-25%), but more than likely the cost of living (specifically housing and taxes) will be much lower (think 40-50%) way offsetting the lower salary. NE NJ is just a suburb of NYC work culture-wise.
'Burbs of Baltimore and Philly are mostly what I'm familiar with, but others exist, specially south of DC, near Atlanta and maybe Chicago. Lot of people who work in Philly live in West Chester area, are not lacking in cultural thrills, and pay half as much for their homes. Yes, they have great schools (that's just the Kool Aid they dish out around here, that if you go elsewhere your kids will suffer). Two guys I worked with refused the relo up here for reasons of cost of living (50% more) as compared to COLA increase(15-20%). Normal commutes down there are more like 30 minutes. They were smart; I wasn't. |
Duncan
Supporter
Username: Duncanrogers
Post Number: 6851
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 6, 2006 - 8:23 pm: |
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My wife works one of those ubiquitous 9-5 jobs in NJ only she works from 8-7.
plus commute. Don't know what to tell you except
Love what you do and do what you love and it'll all work out. |
Innisowen
Citizen
Username: Innisowen
Post Number: 2227
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 7, 2006 - 12:13 am: |
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New Jersey IS New York when it comes to knuckling under for work vs life unless you make conscious choices:
-you'll work hard for just so long to accumulate just so much capital, for example;
-you'll work for company A just long enough to season you for advancement in company B or to start your own business;
-you'll recognize that jobs are no longer for life, and that, if you've been at one company too long, your chances of being hired decrease, as people wonder if you've grown stuck or are afraid of challenge and risk; so you'll move around a lot and try to take a month or more of free time between your old job and your new one;
-you'll look at your work as a series of "assignments" that should naturally be completed, so that you move on to something fresh and new;
-you'll do some regular traveling in your work, to get away from the grind and get a fresh perspective;
-you'll check out other areas (non-burbs) as places to live with potential less stress or as a way to relieve stress.
You'll recognize that no suburb or urban area today is going to give you relief from making personal choices.
If you live in Manhattan, you won't have those endless car commutes on packed freeways and beltways. But you will have 105 degree heat in July and August at the 34th Street station on the N and R line, and everywhere on the Lex Ave line.
If you live in NJ and your job is in Bridgewater or Franklin Lakes, 287 will break your heart at rush hour.
It's all about choices and remaining open for changes. IMHO.
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Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 1499
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 7, 2006 - 3:49 pm: |
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It's 12:22 am and I would love to jump in my car tomorrow morning and drive 1/2 hour instead of going on the train, path, subway and walk 15 minutes to the office which takes 1 1/2 door to door.
3 hours a day
15 hours a week
60 hours a month = 2.5 days
720 hours a year = 30 days
7200 hours in ten years = 300 days
In 15 years commuting I have spent 450 days which equals 1 year 2 month and 2 weeks on the trains.
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 15228
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 7, 2006 - 4:40 pm: |
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I've worked in NJ since 1987. All the companies I have worked for have expected us to work from 8-5 or 9-6 or some other nine hour period. They let me choose which nine hour period, as long as it started between 7am and 10am. When I moved from NYC, I thought it was rather greedy, because at the time, the norm in NYC was 9-5, i.e. an hour shorter.
NYC will beat you down, but in NJ, you atrophy. Take your pick.
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Wendy
Supporter
Username: Wendy
Post Number: 2901
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 7, 2006 - 4:52 pm: |
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Tom, I have to disagree with that 9-5 New York thing. That 35-hour week may be true for certain jobs but those jobs are not usually held by professionals. Yes I used to work as a receptionist in NYC in-between college years ago and the hours were 9 to 5. Around that time I moved to Colorado and noticed the regular workweek out there was 40 hours. I don't see anyone here where I'm working in the city outside of administrative assistants work a 35-hour week. Most companies want longer hours from its employess and personally I think most NJ jobs demand less than NY ones. I would hope so since most of them pay less.
Oh and I don't think one atrophies in NJ. I think that is quite dependent on the job and the person. I think jobs can wear you down wherever you are, regardless of city/location. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 15231
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 7, 2006 - 5:07 pm: |
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You could be right. The change in hours could have reflected my rise in professional status. It could have reflected a change in times just as well as a change in location. 1987 was a long time ago.
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Oldstone
Citizen
Username: Rogers4317
Post Number: 852
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 7, 2006 - 5:18 pm: |
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i must be a nyc exception then because i'm a seasoned professional and my hours are 8-4:30 monday-thurs and 8-1 on fridays...also, been with my company for going on 18 years. my executive management live on long island, nj and ct (vs. manhattan) so that may be where the "have a life" attitude comes from.
as long as i meet my deadlines, i get no grief whatsoever. |
Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 3045
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 7, 2006 - 7:52 pm: |
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I'm with Oldstone. Seniority counts. I work in Jersey City 9-5, which translates into taking the 7:40-ish train in and 5:30 train home so I get home at 6:10. I'm middle aged, have been with the company 8 years, and most of my peers do similar face time. The NYC offices (business) work later, the IT people longer. Some of this is specific to the group culture you're in, and how high you're trying to fly. Still, from my perspective, everyone up around here spends too much time at work, and too much time commuting. Not like this elsewhere. |
Flameretardant
Citizen
Username: Flameretardant
Post Number: 26
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 8, 2006 - 1:01 pm: |
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I tried to balance the NYC (work) vs. NJ (life) thing for several years, a battle that failed when I was summarily "terminated" a few weeks ago. I'm glad to have left the battlefield, at least for a while -- I was working 12-hour days, then commuting 2.5 hours (75 minutes each way) on top of that. In my case, despite being a fairly senior executive, my former employer expected that kind of commitment, no ifs and or buts. Nearly destroyed me and my marriage. There has to be a better solution. |
sportsnut
Citizen
Username: Sportsnut
Post Number: 2539
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 8, 2006 - 1:47 pm: |
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I'm with Oldstone and Cynicalgirl - I've worked at the same company for ten years now and my hours are 9-5:30 most days. As long as I meet my deadlines no one says boo. Sometimes when we're up against a deadline I may work from home for a couple of hours after my son goes to sleep but in the seven years my son has been around I've never missed a t-ball game, school performance or Dr. appointment. I've kind of limited myself in career advancement here but the trade-off is the life balance I have.
Plus the people in upper management here in my department are at least willing to work with you if you produce.
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TopDown
Citizen
Username: New_2_nj
Post Number: 17
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 8, 2006 - 10:11 pm: |
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Thanks for the feedback everyone. I guess I knew that it wasn't as simple as NYC v NJ. The problem for me is that it seems like every company likes to SAY that they take work/life balance seriously, but there is no way to find out if they walk the walk or just talk the talk, until it's too late. I was told by more than one person at my current firm that work/life balance was really important to them and I told that at face value instead of exploring their definition of work/life balance. Of course, when you're going for a position it's really hard to start asking about the hours, etc. It's clearly a big turn-off for employers even if the hours are good. How do you find these things out before you make the plunge? I'm really ready to jump out of this freakin' frying pan, but I don't want to swan dive right into the fire. |
C. Breen
Citizen
Username: C_breen
Post Number: 125
Registered: 7-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 8, 2006 - 10:33 pm: |
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Oldstone - I would be interested to know where you work. It's refreshing to see companies embrace the work-life balance issue, and to be aware that as long as the work gets done on time, the time spent on it is largely not relevant. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 609
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 8, 2006 - 11:59 pm: |
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Can anyone telecommute or work at home one day or half a day a week? If they could, would it make it much better or would it be insignificant? |
Alleygater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 2431
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 - 10:08 am: |
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I find half days are USELESS. Because they don't cut down AT ALL on the worst part of going to work...you know, the GOING to work part. We got summer Friday's at my work and I fought for us to get every other Friday off in our group, whereby half of my team is out on the first Friday and the other half out the next Friday. MUCH MORE CIVILIZED, and everyone agrees that there is more than enough coverage on Friday to get by and that a full day every other week is DRAMATICALLY better than a half day every Friday. |
Wendyn
Supporter
Username: Wendyn
Post Number: 3192
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 - 10:28 am: |
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Topdown, the best way to find out about a company is to talk to someone who will be your peer who already works there. After your second interview if it looks like you will be asked back/given an offer, request to talk to someone who will be your level doing similar work, preferably for the same boss. Find out what they think (about the boss, co-workers, hours, cafeteria, etc). Also, see how early/late you can schedule interviews. If you say "how about 8am/6pm" and they don't balk, it means you will probably be working long hours. If you get the 5-6pm interview, scope out the office to see who is still there when you are done. My office is pretty quiet by 5:30, which is a good indication that management is flexible.
But really it is all on you. Like Sportsnut said, you have to make a concious decision to take a step back and not be working to get a promotion or impress your boss. I work enough to get my job done, and that's about it.
I have found that big corporations tend to be more flexible and less hour focused. Work isn't as "sexy", but that is the trade off. Take a look at Working Mother magazine's list of best companies for working moms. It lists the "perks" that companies provide (flex hours, telecommuting, part time) which might be a good indication of a company's flexibility. |
Wendyn
Supporter
Username: Wendyn
Post Number: 3193
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 - 10:34 am: |
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One funny story...my department recently moved to a different town. Most of the employees have a longer commute of about 30 min plus a 10 min walk/bus ride from the parking lot across campus to our office. About a week after we moved we got an email from our VP and director concerned that they saw "a lot of empty offices". They wanted everyone to send them their hours of work, to schedule meetings early and late in the day to avoid the time it takes to walk across the campus, and to understand that the walk to and from the cafeteria is included in their 1/2 hour unpaid lunch break.
It pissed everyone off. We were just getting used to the new commute and campus. You would think they could have waited a month or so. The main feeling from the employees was "well if they are so concerned about my hours I will make sure that I stick to them, no working late for me"!
Goes to show that management sometimes has their heads up their a**es when it comes to communicating with employees. |
Alleygater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 2437
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 - 1:01 pm: |
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Quote:It pissed everyone off. We were just getting used to the new commute and campus. You would think they could have waited a month or so. The main feeling from the employees was "well if they are so concerned about my hours I will make sure that I stick to them, no working late for me"!
I've had something things similar happen at a few of my jobs. It's just downright stupid. I mentioned it to my boss at the last job (I'm just ballsy that way I guess). He was the one making the rules and passing down the edict. When I explained to him that the way he was communicating his new policies was sort of draconian and was leading us all to stop working the overtime and become clock-punchers, he sort of just smiled and let the silence hand there for a while. Then he said, "good, that's what I would like from you all". You see he had a cruddy commute himself. And he made every effort to get his work done in normal work hours and leave punctually at 5PM. He wanted his whole team to do the same. That was perfection in his opinion. So I think his point was, "I'm glad my approach is working".
Pissed me off more to be honest. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 15242
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 - 3:44 pm: |
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I've been at workplaces that want the workplace to be enjoyable. They valued diversions and even facilitated them. If taken too far, it muddies leisure and work, and both can get in each other's way. I heard a public radio story about a company in Germany which had some odd policies: no chit-chatting or anything. Just work. But you must go home at 5pm. I bet no American company would dare do that.
I'm not sure I'd seek to work at a place like that, but it's food for a lot of thought. Maybe goofing off is best done outside of work. It's really more fun to go to the beach with my friends or family than with my cow-orkers. Think of the thread from recently about the company-enforced team building exercises.
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joy
Citizen
Username: Joy
Post Number: 573
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 9:30 am: |
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Funny - I've been reading this thread and it's got me thinking...
As I read what everyone has written - I have to add that while my company touts work/life balance (read: juggle) - it all comes down to the manager. I've had 2 managers - one was great and had a life outside work and believed that we all should have the same.
The current one gives me lip service. As I posted before, I've made my peace - I have seniority and that's worth something - but as I read what was posted - I see myself getting closer to leaving. Not today - but within a year. I am not happy at work. I don't do anything worthwhile. I don't see my family nearly enough. I never have enough time to do anything.
I am not engaged in what I do and it's time for a change - if anyone knows where I can find a job that's 25 - 30 hours per week, fun, small commute, let's me wear jeans, gives me 6 weeks vacation and pays me the same amount of money I'm making now - let me know...
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Wendyn
Supporter
Username: Wendyn
Post Number: 3197
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 1:03 pm: |
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I was completely surprised when my company agreed to my proposal of 30 hours a week. I figured chances were pretty low that it would be approved, but that it would never be approved if I didn't ask for it!
So I put together a written proposal that detailed days/hours (M-F 9-2 in the office, 6am-7am from home), how/when people could contact me, and most importantly, how I would manage my projects. I think because I am here 5 days a week AND reachable any time, and because I took on some grunt work that no one wants, it was approved. There is a 6 month review period so around Christmas I will know if I can continue (which I want to do indefinately).
Just a thought that you can't assume you won't get what you want unless you don't ask! I'm pretty much stalled on the career track because of it, but family is more important right now. |
IShep
Citizen
Username: Twinsmom
Post Number: 185
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 10:52 am: |
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My solution to this was to go on my own. Luckily I'm in a field where freelance is the norm. I've dramatically reduced my hours, work from home and make more money (certainly there's more risk, but I figured worst case scenario I get a job if it doesn't go well), my husband stays at home with the kids--and plans to do so until our youngest goes to first grade. Of course, we had to move to make this feasible. We're about a half hour from Philly and don't feel that we've really sacrificed that much being 2 hours away from NYC. We still go to NYC at least once a month.
Can you work for yourself? Is that even an option in your business? |
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