| Author | Message | ||
     mlj Citizen Username: Mlj Post Number: 329 Registered: 6-2001 |
A friend made a point at a party about her not eating the baked ziti because it would spoil her milk. Meanwhile, her two or three year old child was sitting there eating the baked ziti. | ||
| juju's petals Citizen Username: Jujus_petals Post Number: 299 Registered: 5-2003  |
jeffl, So Maplewood to what? Nearly kill the manager, breastfeed by the baby pool, or attempt to humiliate a breastfeeding mother and her family? I happily breastfeed my children longer until they were a little older than 2. I did elect to stop doing it in public once they were around one-year old for a number of reasons like they could actually wait and some goldfish would tide them over, it was much harder to be discreet not because I was hiding but I just didn't want to let it all hang out, and I thought passers-by would freak out and I didn't want to expose my children or myself to their issues. That said, no one ever told me to move along or go to the bathroom. The only traumatic experience I had was when the Anthony Garubo salon wouldn't let me bring my not quite three-months old baby into the salon while he was snuggled in the baby sling in my lap as I got a pedicure. No nursing or even touching the floor. Just the presence of a sleeping baby in a pedicure chair. All I could muster up in protest was a WASPy, seething "This is completely unacceptable." They agreed and showed us the door. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2967 Registered: 9-2003  |
I take it that child was still nursing? So, ok to get the ziti one way but not the other? | ||
| juju's petals Citizen Username: Jujus_petals Post Number: 300 Registered: 5-2003 |
Recall something about tomato or wheat causing issues for some babies if the mothers ate it while breastfeeding. I got crazy at one point with babe #1 convinced my diet was making her cry (uh, no, turned out she was just a baby) so I put myself on what I called the Vietnam POW diet. Rice and water. And then built the other foods back in over time to see what was causing the crying. Most likely, it was just my residual anxiety. | ||
| CLK Supporter Username: Clkelley Post Number: 2345 Registered: 6-2002 |
I knew a woman who breastfed her kids until they were 5 and went to kindergarden. And yes, they'd ask for boobie milk (their term, not mine) and express a preference for which side, and she'd open her shirt to the world and the standing child would nurse away. Or the kid would just lift up her shirt or unbutton her and she wouldn't stop them. This same woman told me I was a *child abuser* because I had to (very reluctantly) stop breastfeeding my own kid at age 4 weeks because I'd had a VERY bad case of mastitis that abcessed, followed by surgery - which left a hole the size of a golf ball right where it counts (and I hasten to add, all is normal now except for a scar!). When they drain an abcess, they can't close the surgery wound, so this was an open hole. Breastfeeding was impossible. But BF-Nazi-lady told me "where there's a will, there's a way" and refused to hear that the doctors had forbidden me to try .... "they're all opposed to breastfeeding, you know." This was all in the context of being extremely ill and in the worst pain I've ever experienced in my life - I was on antibiotics for over a month, including IV antibiotics for three weeks (if memory serves). So seeing women breastfeeding much older kids brings up a lot of stuff for me. Some of these gals are seriously weird and not especially interested in other world-views. As to bf-ing a *baby* in public - I did it myself and if I'd had the opportunity would have done it longer. (though would have weaned before my kid learned to ask for it!) It is utterly stupid to suggest that a baby should eat in a bathroom. Unless you would happily eat your lunch in the loo yourself, you shouldn't make babies eat there. | ||
| juju's petals Citizen Username: Jujus_petals Post Number: 302 Registered: 5-2003 |
CLK, I'm sorry. Hope my post didn't make thing worse. I had a friend whose babe is one month older than my #1. My friend developed mastitis that abcessed as well. She was also hospitalized. It was really hard for her to accept that she had stop but she got the same information from her dr. I'm sorry you didn't get the support you needed from that other mother. That's the whole point right? That we support each other in our choices or lack thereof. The extremist views make dialogue so hard. I say never judge a new mom until you've walked a mile her stretched out shoes -- or nursing bra. | ||
| CLK Supporter Username: Clkelley Post Number: 2347 Registered: 6-2002 |
Thanks, juju! No, your post absolutely did not make things worse. I think if I'd been in your shoes I might have tried the same thing myself. I, too, had a colicky baby and probably would have tried anything to calm her down, including the POW diet. And you're right - it's about being supportive. I still have a hard time with older kids bf-ing but that's a personal prejudice, based on my own rather unpleasant experiences. Before I experienced that, my attitude was - "this would not be my choice, but whatever." I know I should get over my prejudice .... | ||
| Crazy_quilter Citizen Username: Crazy_quilter Post Number: 372 Registered: 2-2005 |
CLK, i'm also sorry that this woman was judgmental. I attended a lot of La Leche League meetings and have met lot's of women who have breastfed for long periods of time. I have also met many good mothers who decided not to breastfeed, other good mothers who tried and couldn't do it for physical or psychological reasons. I have listened to several moms describe mastitus and it sounds horrible. The longer i am a mom the fewer answers i have! I also am beginning to see some really cool kids grow up, and they weren't all breastfed! | ||
| Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 2625 Registered: 8-2003  |
I wasn't breastfed and I think I am pretty cool  | ||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 2084 Registered: 10-2002  |
OK - Confession time - I was one of those kids who was breastfed for (what I think was) too long. I remember asking for it.... Ugh...I even remember what I called "it." It's really not a good memory to have, so don't be afraid to get 'em off the breast milk before they're old enough to ask for it. From my personal experience....that's not such a bad thing. My mother was VP or Prez or something like that of her local chapter of the La Leche League. I remember she would have LLL meetings at the house, boobs everywhere.... (OK - maybe there weren't boobs flying all over the living room, but I remember wanting to get the heck out of that room fast when my mom had her meetings - I was a little too young to understand why this subject needed "meetings" and why everyone felt the need to expose themselves in our living room). Every time a woman in my family gets pregnant for the first time, they've got booklets and pamphlets from my mother about the benefits of breastfeeding waiting in their mailbox. My S-I-L also couldn't breastfeed because of problems similar to what you described CLK, and she half-jokingly asked me if she would no longer be in my mother's favor....She was kidding, but that's how ingrained the whole B-fding thing is in my family.... | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 4787 Registered: 5-2001 |
I'm with Juju...I stopped at a little after 1, but at that point my girls would nurse in the morning, comforting when they woke up, and before bed. The rest of the time they ate food and drank juice/water and at 12 mos, whole milk, but to each his own. My kids basically got disinterested in nursing on their own (except number one, but that's another story) and honestly I was happy to have my breasts back (well, except they got lost somewhere along the way  ) | ||
| Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 2629 Registered: 8-2003 |
LilB - your confession just cracked me up!!! sorry! It was brave of you to confide in us. your words are definitely a lesson I am guessing that you were BF in the early '70s, so that would make your mom part of a huge movement. Breastfeeding was really coming into vogue in the Hippy Dippy late '60s / early '70s. she was a forerunner in the movement! | ||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 2087 Registered: 10-2002 |
Yup -- late 60s/early 70s (and if my mother had her way....well into the 80s  ) It must have been a big thing. I remember her being on television for something related to this - she was part of a group - not featured or anything. But, THAT was very cool. To all you parents - if you can get on television (for something other than the local police activity or corporate scandal), it's the greatest thing for a kid to see - they'll think you're pretty darned cool. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1705 Registered: 10-2004  |
my wifes timetable was this - first tooth, have a bottle. Seemed to work out pretty well for my boys. | ||
| Ali_G Citizen Username: Ali_g Post Number: 11 Registered: 2-2006 |
This string of messages really puzzles me, I don't know why anyone would have any objection to a woman breastfeeding in public. Maybe because I'm from Canada and there it is just not an issue. No one would dare ask a woman to breastfeed "discretely". Makes me nervous because I'm just about to have a baby here and I never thought I might not be welcome as a bfdg mom around town. | ||
| juju's petals Citizen Username: Jujus_petals Post Number: 304 Registered: 5-2003 |
My mom breastfed my sister and I, too, which during the early 70's was a little out of the norm. She was kind of a hippie but more than anything else -- cheap and practical. Breastfeeding in our family wasn't a political act, just expected behavior. In fact, her mother and her mother and her mother . . . they all breastfed all their children. Not forever, usually about 6 months. When I asked why (in my post-partum reverie thinking I'd get some kind of cosmic la leche philosophy about nuturing and motherhood) she just shrugged, "They were all farm girls." Some simple things get overexamined sometimes. | ||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 2091 Registered: 10-2002 |
Just to add - my mother is so far from hippie it makes me laugh to think of her as one. In fact, she gets a bit perturbed if people talk about the 60s like everyone was strung out on LSD and dressing in tie dye. (Although I think one of my older siblings said they had a big peace sign out on the lawn for a while once - haven't confirmed that though). The way my mother describes the 60s was "If you talked about eating granola or exercising regularly, you were considered a screwball. Things were just different then." | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12186 Registered: 5-2001 |
Back on the main topic here. I hope I didn't cause Sunnydays to start this thread with my off the cuff comment about NBC News at the pool. I was refering to one of the numerous times MW got bad press when they banned breast feeding at the pool ten or so years ago. Unfortunately, the only time New York TV shows up in MW is when there is bad publicity to be had. | ||
| CLK Supporter Username: Clkelley Post Number: 2349 Registered: 6-2002 |
I was breastfed in the early 60s, which was VERY out of the mainstream at that time. My mom, like LilB's, was far from a hippie ... she is to this day very conservative in her dress and her attitudes. She more or less stays out of politics, but is generally liberal with some conservative stuff going on. But she was a nurse, and went to nursing school at one of the very best cutting-edge nursing programs of her time - Mass General, still a top-notch nursing program. The early research on the benefits of breast-feeding was coming in and she and her friends all made a pact to bf when they had kids. And for the most part, they did. I'm very, very proud of my mom for doing this. I'm also extremely grateful for all the help and support she gave me when I was sick - and she was never even slightly judgmental. | ||
| Virtual It Girl Citizen Username: Shh Post Number: 4794 Registered: 5-2001 |
Also back then kids went on to whole milk much earlier. I remember when my first friend had her first kid in 1989, they put him on whole milk at 6 months. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2969 Registered: 9-2003 |
Most of my friends had their kids in the '70's, and we were a liberal, democrat, Feminist, college sort of a community. They all did the breastfeeding thing, and were pretty doctrinaire about it, and pretty unforgiving of those who didn't regardless of reason. I think it would be nice if we could all just let each other choose a path, accept it and that's the end of it. I admit to finding the prospect of 5 year olds lifting their mother's shirts in public and demanding [insert cute name] not quite the thing, but I wouldn't want to make rules for or against it either. All gets to feeling like a sub-skirmish in the mommy wars. | ||
| John James Leuchs Jr Citizen Username: Clairvoyant Post Number: 110 Registered: 8-2005 |
LilLB, did your mother ever feed you at Jefferson School? We had a La Leche League parent who would sometimes breastfeed her four year old daughter while sitting on the staircase inside Jefferson school. She was active in the organization and was the talk of the school. This would be about twenty years ago, give or take a few years. | ||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 2097 Registered: 10-2002 |
Nope...I grew up in Upstate NY, and sadly, it would have been quite a bit longer than twenty years ago. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 8453 Registered: 5-2001  |
Did she sit on the stairs just to make a point? Why was she at the school? | ||
| John James Leuchs Jr Citizen Username: Clairvoyant Post Number: 111 Registered: 8-2005 |
She apparently was very proud of her mammaries. She made no attempt at modesty and usually did the feeding as children were exiting the school or going to lunch. Greenetree, that was the same question the teachers used to ask each other, why was she there? She did have a child in my sixth grade class so she did have a reason for being at the school. She was known for being very vocal about the La Leche League and breastfeeding in general, so we just left her alone. But the manner in which she exposed herself and the age of the girl made it very bizarre. | ||
| Mr. Big Poppa Citizen Username: Big_poppa Post Number: 787 Registered: 7-2004  |
This thread is HOT!!!!! | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2970 Registered: 9-2003 |
We used to call the mothers like that Professional Women, i.e. they were making a political and career statement out of everything to do with biolgical femaleness. Burying placentas, militant breastfeeding, etc. Earth mommas to the nth degree, and pretty tiresome. Not my cuppa, and probably, Mr. Big Poppa, not so hot as you imagine... | ||
| Mr. Big Poppa Citizen Username: Big_poppa Post Number: 789 Registered: 7-2004 |
Burying placentas? That's even hotter!!!!! | ||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 2102 Registered: 10-2002 |
militant breastfeeding? Do they have to wear fatigues when they do that? | ||
| lamojo Citizen Username: Lamojo Post Number: 181 Registered: 7-2002 |
Juju sorry you were traumatized by Anthony Garubo's not allowing your 3 month old in the salon, but if that's their policy then so be it. I don't patronize that salon, but the one I do go to also has a strict no-children policy. I found it tough to figure out a good time to schedule appointments when my kids were still nursing but ended up appreciating the short time away from them. And I enjoy having services without small kids running around or potentially disturbing the experience. As for extended nursing, I nursed son #1 until he was 20 months old but the last 5 months were only middle-of-the night feedings. #2 had almost 14 months of nursing, and now I am a "free" woman. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2975 Registered: 9-2003 |
I think so, LilLB, with detachable cups! Really, some of my old "friends" were just big into the back to nature end of the spectrum. Breastfeeding, family bed, roots of attachment parenting movement etc. till as late as possible. Sometimes it looks like extreme proponents they craved it more than their kids (whose "on demand" requirements were almost totally unregulated -- mom's and dad's needs came way down the chain). Tres post industrial. For what it's worth, I do get it about breast feeding's benefits and think it's a fine thing to strive to do but some folks get way judgemental and militant about it, as if few children would grow up big, smart and healthy without it. And as always, interesting that most men don't give a rat's behind about it so it looks like just another case of women squabbling. "Whatever you say, dear..." and all that. As I recall, back then was when U.S. feminism seemed to have an identity crisis and started to split into the Andrea Dworkin etc. folks (who got real cozy, oddly, with conservatives because their vision of women actually was rather similar in it's deification of all things reproductive and defined women by that capability) and the beginnings of the "do-me" feminists who were more about work place equity, etc. I think the women's movement never recovered as a quasi unified body. What does this have to do with breastfeeding in public? Maybe not much in the small cases, but it's on a spectrum regarding how women are identified and what's worth fighting for and about. | ||
| juju's petals Citizen Username: Jujus_petals Post Number: 305 Registered: 5-2003 |
lamojo, thanks. I felt like the only party guest in costume. I didn't think I was doing anything wrong, especially since I'd never been there before. They acted like I committed a crime, a stupid one at that, and told me I had to leave. But, I could return without the baby. Uh, no thanks. I understand their rule and wasn't trying to be entitled. I just made the wrong assumption. As a result, they could have been nicer about it. No reason to make someone feel like jerk. My comment about unacceptable had more to do with the whole situation than no babies in the pedi chair. Anyone else from Hoboken? I miss the Hair Cult so much!!!! P.S. Back on topic, never breastfeed in the salon or pedi chair. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 8480 Registered: 5-2001 |
I was getting a pedicure at Garubo's last week. There were two girls, about 10 & 12, running up and down, yelling, shouting, etc. Their mom was getting her hair done. The staff kept telling them to settle down. I certainly would have rather had an infant. | ||
| Hank Zona Supporter Username: Hankzona Post Number: 5981 Registered: 3-2002  |
you'd have rather given birth to an infant than telling two girls to settle down?!?!?! | ||
| Parkbench87 Citizen Username: Parkbench87 Post Number: 4785 Registered: 7-2001  |
"you'd have rather given birth to an infant than telling two girls to settle down?!?!?!" Or how about the third option (Having a Cow). This would incorporate both scenarios | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 8483 Registered: 5-2001 |
Who said anything about giving birth? It's BBQ season. A little salt, pepper, olive oil & a nice hot fire! | ||
| Hank Zona Supporter Username: Hankzona Post Number: 5989 Registered: 3-2002 |
you said, "I would certainly have rather had an infant"...so you said something about giving birth, as I interpreted it. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 8485 Registered: 5-2001 |
I coulda had a V-8, I coulda had a burger, I coulda had a baby..... This thread is about feeding, no? | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 6743 Registered: 12-2001  |
"hot topic lately?" ok. no big deal to most folks I know. And BobK...the times does on occasion publish some good stuff regarding M'wood. It's just rarer. when we were one of the top 10 cities to live in in the USA I remember they did a piece. And that pool incident was less than 10 years ago, because I remember thinking, that guy just lost his job. | ||
| Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 2678 Registered: 8-2003 |
Timely article on cnn.com homepage today Lactivists: Where is it OK to breastfeed? Babytalk magazine generates controversy with nursing cover NEW YORK (AP) -- "I was SHOCKED to see a giant breast on the cover of your magazine," one person wrote. "I immediately turned the magazine face down," wrote another. "Gross," said a third. These readers weren't complaining about a sexually explicit cover, but rather one of a baby nursing, on a wholesome parenting magazine -- yet another sign that Americans are squeamish over the sight of a nursing breast, even as breast-feeding itself gains more support from the government and medical community. Babytalk is a free magazine whose readership is overwhelmingly mothers of babies. Yet in a poll of more than 4,000 readers, a quarter of responses to the cover were negative, calling the photo -- a baby and part of a woman's breast, in profile -- inappropriate. One mother who didn't like the cover explains she was concerned about her 13-year-old son seeing it. "I shredded it," said Gayle Ash, of Belton, Texas, in a telephone interview. "A breast is a breast -- it's a sexual thing. He didn't need to see that." It's the same reason that Ash, 41, who nursed all three of her children, is cautious about breast-feeding in public -- a subject of enormous debate among women, which has even spawned a new term: "lactivists," meaning those who advocate for a woman's right to nurse wherever she needs to. "I'm totally supportive of it -- I just don't like the flashing," she said. "I don't want my son or husband to accidentally see a breast they didn't want to see." Another mother, Kelly Wheatley, wrote Babytalk to applaud the cover, precisely because, she said, it helps educate people that breasts are more than sex objects. And yet Wheatley, 40, who's still nursing her 3-year-old daughter, rarely breast-feeds in public, partly because it's more comfortable in the car, and partly because her husband is uncomfortable with other men seeing her breast. "Men are very visual," said Wheatley, of Amarillo, Texas. "When they see a woman's breast, they see a breast -- regardless of what it's being used for." Babytalk editor Susan Kane says the mixed response to the cover clearly echoes the larger debate over breast-feeding in public. "There's a huge Puritanical streak in Americans," she said, "and there's a squeamishness about seeing a body part -- even part of a body part." "It's not like women are whipping them out with tassels on them," she added. "Mostly, they are trying to be discreet." Kane said that since the August issue came out last week, the magazine has received more than 700 letters -- more than for any article in years. "Gross, I am sick of seeing a baby attached to a boob," wrote Lauren, a mother of a 4-month-old. The evidence of public discomfort isn't just anecdotal. In a survey published in 2004 by the American Dietetic Association, less than half -- 43 percent -- of 3,719 respondents said women should have the right to breast-feed in public places. The debate rages at a time when the celebrity-mom phenomenon has made breast-feeding perhaps more public than ever. Gwyneth Paltrow, Brooke Shields, Kate Hudson and Kate Beckinsale are only a few of the stars who've talked openly about their nursing experiences. The celeb factor has even brought a measure of chic to that unsexiest of garments: the nursing bra. Gwen Stefani can be seen on babyrazzi.com -- a site with a self-explanatory name -- sporting a leopard-print version from lingerie line Agent Provocateur. And fellow moms recognized a white one under Angelina Jolie's tank top on the cover of People. (Katie Holmes, meanwhile, suffered a maternity wardrobe malfunction when cameras caught her, nursing bra open and peeking out of her shirt, while on the town with fiance Tom Cruise.) More seriously, the social and medical debate has intensified. The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services recently concluded a two-year breast-feeding awareness campaign including a TV ad -- criticized as over-the-top even by some breast-feeding advocates -- in which not breast-feeding was equated with the recklessness of a pregnant woman riding a mechanical bull. There have been other measures to promote breast-feeding: In December, for example, Massachusetts banned hospitals from giving new mothers gift bags with free infant formula, a practice opponents said swayed some women away from nursing. Most states now have laws guaranteeing the right to breast-feed where one chooses, and when a store or restaurant employee denies a woman that right, it has often resulted in public protests known as "nurse-ins": at a Starbucks in Miami, Florida, at Victoria's Secret stores in Racine, Wisconsin, and Boston, Massachusetts, and, last year, outside ABC headquarters in New York, when Barbara Walters made comments on "The View" seen by some women to denigrate breast-feeding in public. "It's a new age," says Melinda Johnson, a registered dietitian and spokesperson for ADA. "With the government really getting behind breast-feeding, it's been a jumping-off point for mothers to be politically active. Mommies are organizing. It's a new trend to be a mommy activist." Ultimately, it seems to be a highly personal matter. Caly Wood said she's "all for breast-feeding in public." She recalls with a shudder the time she sat nursing in a restaurant booth, and another woman walked by, glanced over and said, "Ugh, gross." "My kid needed to eat," said the 29-year-old from South Abingdon, Massachusetts. And she wasn't going to go hide in a not-so-clean restroom: "I don't send people to the bathroom when they want to eat," she said. But Rebekah Kreutz thinks differently. One of six women who author SisterhoodSix, a blog on mothering issues, Kreutz didn't nurse her two daughters in public and doesn't really feel comfortable seeing others do it. "I respect it and think women have the right," says Kreutz, 34, of Bozeman, Montana. "But personally, it makes me really uncomfortable." "I just think it's one of those moments that should stay between a mother and her child." Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. |
