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S.L.K. 2.0
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1912
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 5:07 am: | 
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Anne Taylor on SA? Nope, don't see it...
trader joes? yeah, can see it and may be a good idea.....
johnny rockets is highend?
-slk
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 12501
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 5:32 am: |
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Crabby, rumor is that Starbucks concerned with parking and Leo's would pay a higher rent. |
jeffl
Supporter
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 1847
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 7:59 am: |
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How many more deliquent kids from Irvington are going to be in our school system because of these high density housing projects going up?
That just about seals it, troll or uninformed. |
Mtam
Citizen
Username: Mtam
Post Number: 145
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 9:08 am: |
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Also, I should add--as someone who could afford to live in some of those other communities Lester mentioned (on the modest end) they have zero appeal to me. And I mean zero. Much of what is seen as high end for me is simply boring and I can find it anywhere. A few anchors are fine, and as I said, they will come later, but I'm much more optimistic about the small businessowners that are serving the particular niches of this community and giving it a sense of identity. It's all nascent, but I've lived through several gentrifications in other areas, and this has some of the promising signs. It could go bust, yes, especially with the softening real estate market, but right now it feels promising. |
Ceidefields
Citizen
Username: Ceidefields
Post Number: 56
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 9:13 am: |
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Lester, if the goal of the redevelopment plan was to attract big name stores to alleviate our tax burden, then I would call that goal misguided at best. SA simply doesn't have the real estate or the demographics to support that sort of development. Maplewood would have to invest a helluva lot more money than it has to completely redevelop the entire avenue. Was the goal a Westfield type scenario?
If our aim is to raise more taxes (which it should be, given our real estate taxes), then I think it would be much wiser to develop a corporate tax base like Livingston, Summit or any number of Jersey towns who've persuaded pharmaceutical or high tech companies to locate there. The ROI would be much higher.
Also, I think the type of development we're seeing on SA is much more appropriate and in tune with Maplewood as a whole than planting a bunch of large name stores there. I really can't picture that. |
Alleygater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 2543
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 9:41 am: |
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Ceidefields, I agree. I would like SA to grow organically and locally as it has been doing. I also suggested that big name stores (ala Westfield) is wholly NOT what I want in my town. I'd much prefer a Cafe Meow to a Starbucks ANY DAY. Or a skateshop to an Urban Outfitters. However, last time I made that statement I got the BIG DIS from the Strawman himself. Oh he almost made me cry. I almost stood up for myself from his attacks until I realized that he might create a "HEY DAVE!! Look what Alleygater said" thread AGAIN and I would just be so mortified. The shame, the shame. |
Carl Thompson
Citizen
Username: Topcat
Post Number: 214
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 10:04 am: |
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Our boy Lester wrote, "I think people on this board start calling me a troll when they know I am right."
That about sums it up, Les. The problem here is self-righteousness. Meaningful dialog is always welcome on MOL, but from you we don’t get much of that. You do, however, love to prattle on and repeat yourself.
I guess maybe it feels good from your viewpoint, in some twisted way. I wish instead you could sit at my PC and read your posts with a different set of eyes.
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jeffl
Supporter
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 1848
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 11:20 am: |
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Does anyone really believe that our taxes will drop to any significant degree even if SA reaches its greatest potential? I'd love to see that calculation:
Ultimate development = how much additional tax revenue = how much reduction in taxes for the typical homeowner.
Someone must have done that calculation, right? |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 7772
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 11:40 am: |
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"Does anyone really believe that our taxes will drop to any significant degree even if SA reaches its greatest potential? I'd love to see that calculation:"
no, SA will never generate the ratables.
Instead, Maplewood will continue sticking it to the homeowners on the west side of town.
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greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 9187
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 11:52 am: |
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Straw - some of us on the eastside, too. My taxes are $12k. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5652
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 12:13 pm: |
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How could Maplewood continue "sticking it to" the west side if values on the east side rise disproportionately? After all, taxes are apportioned according to market value by law. So tax rates on the hill could only decline relative to those south of Springfield, yes?
Unless we don't reval periodically, then you're stuck. But if the TC is gun shy you've got nobody to blame but yourself. |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 7778
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 10:19 pm: |
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5 Dems on the TC. How am I to blame?
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John
Citizen
Username: Jdm
Post Number: 129
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 10:36 pm: |
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Doesn't half of the sales tax go to the municipality in NJ, that is, to the town? Therefore doesn't increased business on SA mean more income for the town? |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 10624
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 10:38 pm: |
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You're thinking of a UEZ. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 12516
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 5:38 am: |
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I still think a UEZ makes sense for SA and Hilton, although the last time I brought this up I got roundly booed and beaten severly around the head and shoulders. |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 7780
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 9:40 am: |
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and chances are you will again.. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 15473
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 12:19 pm: |
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For those who don't know, UEZ = urban enterprise zone. If I understand how it works, the state allows retailers to collect half the normal sales tax. The purpose is to build patronage and improve the economy. I understand that Elizabeth decided to collect its own municipal sales tax, so I guess the increase revenue was more important to them than stimulating the economy. The effect is that you pay normal sales tax rates in Elizabeth. But in Orange, you pay half.
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Alleygater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 2546
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 2:13 pm: |
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But at IKEA we only pay 3% sales tax and they are in Elizabeth. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 15477
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 2:26 pm: |
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OK, maybe Elizabeth doesn't collect a municipal sales tax. Or maybe they do but not at IKEA. I guess I don't know.
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John
Citizen
Username: Jdm
Post Number: 131
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 2:54 pm: |
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A UEZ is not what I was talking about.
Wikipedia says that half of NJ sales-tax revenues go to municipalities and half to the state. Is that wrong? |
blackcat
Citizen
Username: Blackcat
Post Number: 746
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 3:02 pm: |
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It's the Jersey Gardens Mall that adds on top of the 3.5% sales tax. Teh area has to show a hardship or something like it, I believe. Maplewood does not meet the criteria, I'm sure. |
Tulip
Citizen
Username: Skirtedflower
Post Number: 1
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 5:34 pm: |
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I am so truly surprised reading this board! When I lived in Jersey City people would tell me about this great little town of Maplewood that was filled with such diverse, open minded, interesting people, and we moved here (into the Hilton neighborhood) and found it to be all that and more! I was so psyched to see Springfield Ave with all these cool, creative businesses just a hop and skip from where I lived (reminded me of the urban vibe from the Grove Street area in JC). It's so great that a tiny town could have a shopping area like the Village AND an edgier section like SA. I never thought people had such negative feelings about the area. It seems so un-Maplewood. |
mrs_mooch
Citizen
Username: Mrs_mooch
Post Number: 38
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 9:51 pm: |
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Tulip,
AMEN!
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S.L.K. 2.0
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1969
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 8:29 am: |
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Welcome Tulip-
No frets, I hear you and got your back....but you must be a different Tulip, you seem to have a head on your shoulders.... 
-SLK |
Mtam
Citizen
Username: Mtam
Post Number: 147
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 7:46 pm: |
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I agree a hundred percent. It is very cool to have a suburban town that could nurture much more hip and fresh places. Let's hope more keep springing up-- |
S.L.K. 2.0
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1998
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, September 1, 2006 - 2:57 pm: |
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Not trying to knock all the good going on SA but one thing I would like to see go away is the Pappa Johns. Not only does their pie totally blow but I am so tired of seeing those single slice boxes all over the hood.
Granted, it is not PJs fault that the neighborhood kids don't properly dispose them but do you really need all that box for a single slice of pizza?
Hey PJ, serve it on wax paper like every other pizza joint does already! 
-SLK |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 15524
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 1, 2006 - 3:00 pm: |
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I kinda do blame Papa Johns, though I haven't figured out how or why.
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SO Ref
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 2165
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, September 1, 2006 - 3:02 pm: |
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It's in PJ's best interest for the boxes to end up as litter. It's a cheap sort of viral marketing...
"Damn that pizza must be good 'cause I see their boxes all over the place." |
S.L.K. 2.0
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 2001
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, September 1, 2006 - 8:39 pm: |
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SO Ref-
Well you do have point about marketing. Seeing those soiled boxes laying on the sewer grates just reminds how •••••• their pizza is... 
-SLK |
John
Citizen
Username: Jdm
Post Number: 135
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, September 2, 2006 - 12:04 am: |
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PJ's has to be to-go only, hence the boxes. If they served it on wax paper, they'd be serving it to eat right away. If I understand it correctly, that's how they got in the spot in the first place: no seats, no eat-in service, and they avoided the then existing zoning laws. |
SO Ref
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 2166
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, September 2, 2006 - 9:47 am: |
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Scrote - you're not their target audience. |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 8255
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, September 2, 2006 - 11:28 am: |
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John: Take a look at the parking lot next door. Plenty of their customers park there and sit in their cars to eat their pizza.
I think part of the problem with this topic of discussion is that there are so many different viewpoints on what SA should become. Personally, I could never see the big box store scenario Fred proposed the first time he ran for TC. As others have said, the infrastructure isn't there. To put the infrastructure in place would require knocking down much of the residential area along Hilton Avenue and parts the various streets in College Hill which are immediately adjacent to SA. I don't think any of us want to see that.
What I have always preferred for SA are the small individually owned stores which meet the specific needs of the people who live and work in the immediate area and this is what is developing now. It is especially nice to see how many of these businesses are owned by people who live in our town and thus have double the vested interest in making the area work that shop owners living outside of town would have.
Will any development of SA raise our commercial tax base to the degree that the total amount of real property tax paid by residents will go down? Not likely. Are real property taxes likely to adjust in the next reval so that persons living closer to SA will be paying more and those in some of the presently higher taxed areas paying less? Probably. However, as long as the areas adjacent to SA are set on smaller lots, the highest taxes will still be west of SA.
I have never seen Vauxhall as a problem to SA development. Perhaps those who see Vauxhall's separation from Union as a deterent to developing SA should lead a movement for Maplewood to annex it. Then we could take a more active roll in developing Vauxhall as well. |
Psychomom
Citizen
Username: Psychomom
Post Number: 710
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Monday, September 4, 2006 - 10:38 am: |
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Funny Joan 
Hey why doesn't Maplewood annex the West Ward of Irvington too...it's not that different from Hilton and you can get even more rateables...then people wouldn't have to worry about Irvington kids sneaking into Maplewood schools because they would belong there....oh yeah and just think what that would do for diversity in town. I think you're on to something Joan
a big giant wink goes here |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 8300
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 4, 2006 - 3:57 pm: |
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Seriously, if redevelopment is going to work, we need to be aware of the areas adjacent to the redevelopment area and work with bordering municipalities for a more unified approach to planning. This shouldn't require physically taking over the other jurisdiction but it should involve being aware of the resources available in neighboring communities and of the needs of the adjacent communities which might be met through our own redevelopment planning. |
Psychomom
Citizen
Username: Psychomom
Post Number: 719
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 5, 2006 - 12:01 am: |
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For any business to succeed a good marketing plan is a must and should include looking into and defining the target audience and learning from experiences in our shared collective communities. |
