| Author |
Message |
    
Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 1732
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 9:24 am: | 
|
Patsy Ramsey did know what happened- she was told a month before she died that Karr was the suspect. My guess is that they had DNA samples all along that did not compare with any on file. Karr is described as a "substitute second-grade teacher and a known pedophile", which suggests that he was arrested and charged at some point and his DNA was taken. This probably triggered a delayed hit when placed in the computer files, and Boulder investigators were then notified.
As far as the Ramseys being under "unimaginable suspicion", the initial evidence pointed to someone inside the home and the ensuing contacts with the Ramseys tended to increase suspicion rather than remove it. Most parents would bear their bodies and souls to cooperate with authorities in finding their child's killer; John and Patsy were less than forthcoming and became more evasive as time passed. It would have made the cops' job much easier to be able to eliminate the Ramseys and move forward, but they couldn't. |
Pippi
Supporter
Username: Pippi
Post Number: 2776
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 10:03 am: |
|
Red - I couldn't agree more - I feel rather lucky!
Bajou - no apologies necessary. You were not too harsh and you didn't say anything that I didn't deserve
 |
John
Citizen
Username: Jdm
Post Number: 114
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 10:10 am: |
|
JTA,
Lots of people confess to crimes they didn't commit, especially high-profile ones that get a lot of press.
This article in the NYT has the following:
"Mr. Karr’s former wife, Laura Karr, told KGO-TV in San Francisco on Wednesday that while the couple was still married, her husband spent considerable time researching the Ramsey case.
She said that she and Mr. Karr were in Alabama together on Dec. 25, 1996, the day JonBenet was murdered in Colorado." |
anotherkittie
Citizen
Username: Anotherkittie
Post Number: 124
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 12:53 pm: |
|
Apparently Karr confessed to details that we never made public. |
eliz
Supporter
Username: Eliz
Post Number: 1692
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 12:56 pm: |
|
I can't imagine the police/DA would arrest him without first checking on his whereabouts. Apparently the investigation on this guy has been going on for a few months. Let's wait and see what happens. |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 1565
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 12:59 pm: |
|
The detective who wouldn't rest:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4923124,00.ht ml
|
mrmaplewood
Citizen
Username: Mrmaplewood
Post Number: 387
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 2:18 pm: |
|
PC Alert. Nothing to do with the arrest.
The TV showed the old videos of this girl prancing around all dolled up and looking like a freak. I had almost forgotten about them. The video revolted me. These parents, most probably the mother, were SICK.
Rant over. Begin the flaming. |
wnb
Citizen
Username: Wnb
Post Number: 504
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 2:31 pm: |
|
It is true this subculture of little girl beauty pageants is strange and troubling.
It does not mean participants in it are deserving of the kind of treatment this girl got.
Not that you're saying that.
I'll admit those videos make my skin crawl & stomach turn, but not to the degree that this guy does, by a long shot.
|
fiche
Citizen
Username: Fiche
Post Number: 235
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 3:39 pm: |
|
Someone suggested to me that perhaps this creep confessed to the Ramsey killing to get himself out of Thailand where he was being held for sex crime there and that he thought American justice would be more tolerable, whether his committed this particular crime or not. Interesting theory. Comments? |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3901
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 3:52 pm: |
|
mrmaplewood: I have to agree with you. A six-year-old trained to flirt? Who would do that? How is that normal? |
Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 1733
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 3:52 pm: |
|
Fiche- Interesting theory, and probably correct. The lesser of two Hells. |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 1571
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 3:58 pm: |
|
He was not held on a major charge but on possession of child pornography. The arrest was made soley based on the request of the american authority and while he was on the radar of Thai authorities for child pornography distribution you can bet your bum that the Thai authority would not have released him that easily to the american authorities if there were major charges against him. He lied about his whereabouts for the past 10 years in both of the resumes he posted to get the job in Thailand. His brother stated that they have to look through family pictures to proof that he was in Alabama that year. You don't think they would have come running already and thrown Christmas with the kids pictures around already if they would have them.
Even though there is a possibility that his confession is bogus I feel that a man who was charged with child pornography in the states years ago then fled the country and hid successfully for several years is unlikely to come forward now to face murder charges to avoid child pornography distribution charges in Thailand where it is not even considered to be a fellony. DNA evidence will be the key IF he acted alone.
Read the man's resumes and the way he discribed his job duties. He is supposed to be this incredible teacher but in reality his duties are those of a nannie. He also stated that he taught in the best schools in America when he never had a full teaching position at all. There is also more to his dismissal at the one american school he substituted at. He was dismissed after a few months and a few weeks later the child pornography charges were filed against him here.
Anyway he is not guilty until convicted but then again the judicial system has flaws and people have been convicted of crimes they never committed and guilty parties have gone free. |
Kevin
Supporter
Username: Kevin
Post Number: 834
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 4:46 pm: |
|
His resume has been removed from job4teacher.com, but here it is:
 |
C Bataille
Citizen
Username: Nakaille
Post Number: 2713
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 5:05 pm: |
|
Well, if this guy is the real-deal, and if his resume contains an ounce of truth, he sure has great predatory instincts for gaining access to young children. I'm nauseated. |
eliz
Supporter
Username: Eliz
Post Number: 1694
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 5:15 pm: |
|
I know, I felt sick when I read the bit about him bathing the kids. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5961
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 6:52 pm: |
|
sk8
I thought I just read something that said the police did not answer when asked about the DNA matching this new suspect and that it was never said if it matched anyone over the past ten years. Here's what I read
>>>Legal experts said DNA evidence will likely be key: DNA was found beneath JonBenet's fingernails and inside her underwear and authorities have never said whether it matches anyone in an FBI database. U.S. and Thai officials did not directly answer a question at a news conference about whether there was DNA evidence connecting Karr to the crime.<<<
and a link to the article
http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/confession-in-jonbenet-case-questioned/2006 0816163809990004
It seems there are a lot of questions surrounding this 'confession' and how it might turn out he didn't kill her JonBenet. |
msmith
Citizen
Username: Msmith
Post Number: 28
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 8:03 pm: |
|
These posts seriously frighten me for our justice system. If people who make such quick, reflex judgments make up our jury pools it's no wonder innocent people are convicted. Everyone is ready throw this SUSPECT in jail based on very little information. People "confess" to crimes they did not do for all kinds of reasons.
I believe the only reason the Ramseys were able to prevent being prosecuted for this crime in the first place is that they were wealthy enough to hire very good attorneys. Brett -- you state that the parents were evasive and less than forthcoming with the investigation. You have no idea how the initial police interviews went down. Maybe the parents were intially cooperative and then sensed the police were interested only proving the theory of an inside job. You have no idea how you would respond if you suddenly felt under suspicion in the death of your own child. They were wise to retain attorneys. And I'll bet none of the police or prosecutors responsible for the original investigation will issue a mea culpa for placing them under the "umbrella of suspicion" if the facts bear out that this new suspect committed the crime. |
Nancy - LibraryLady
Supporter
Username: Librarylady
Post Number: 3808
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 8:40 pm: |
|
Never heard of "Regets College" so I googled it and foud ths
bout Excelsior College
Excelsior College helps busy working adults earn the degrees they need with flexible distance education programs.
The College, formerly Regents College, was founded in 1971 on the fundamental philosophy that what you know is more important than where or how you learned it. We recognize that adult learners can attain college-level knowledge in many ways. Our name, which means "Ever Upward," depicts how, with over 100,000 graduates, we propel students just like you toward their goals.
I also don't think he confessed to killing her, only that he was "there when she died". He said he drugged her yet autopsy showed no drugs in her system. The guy is a fruitcake, probably dangerous, but I don't think he's Jon-Benet's murderer. |
John Caffrey
Citizen
Username: Jerseyjack
Post Number: 483
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 8:49 pm: |
|
The guy confessed to drugging JB and then killing her. Didn't the autopsy indicate that there were no drugs in her system? |
Calliope
Citizen
Username: Calliope
Post Number: 974
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 10:16 pm: |
|
There is a special Primetimeon right now.
I happened on it, and don't intend to watch it through, but the clips of Karr I have seen so far seem to me to show a very disturbed individual.
I don't believe him---although he may believe it himself.
I'll wait for the telltale DNA (not that that is always accurate---I think it depends on the lab and other variables)
An interesting juxtaposition to this report---there is a crawl across the screen about an Amber alert concerning a girl who was abducted from Port Authority.
This is a scary world.
God have mercy on us all.
Calli
|
sk8mom
Citizen
Username: Sk8mom
Post Number: 456
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 10:17 pm: |
|
JTAunt: Just prior to this latest news, I saw a show on the Ramsey case (A&E, Court TV, something like that). It was said that the DNA sample had not matched anyone in the national database thus far. And if it matched someone, wouldn't they have hauled that person in? What's the chance their DNA innocently got into her panties?
MSmith... Some logical counterparts to your arguments --
1. It is no wonder that guilty defendants go free.
2. You have found the police and prosecutors guilty, without notice of the charges or a public trial, of conspiring or attempting to wrongfully arrest and prosecute the Ramseys. The only reason their crime was not completed was because the Ramseys retained counsel.
3. Since only the good lawyers hired by the Ramseys kept them out of jail, if uncounseled, the Ramseys, while innocent, would have nonetheless implicated themselves out of their sheer unfamiliarity with the "system" and police and prosecutorial wiles.
|
Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 1466
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 10:18 pm: |
|
John Ramsey knows this nutcase didn't do it. |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 1572
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 10:24 pm: |
|
He said he was there during her death and that he druged her, raped her and then she accidentally died. He made sure that the thai authorities knew he did not kill her on purpose (because he truly loved her). You can knock a child out with ether that will not show up the next morning if the dosage was not high enough to kill her. He could have just knocked her out with a wiff but we do need to remember that he hasn't been tied to the DNA and hasn't been found guilty.
I either case they got a man of the streets that has actively contributed to child pronography in two countries. Some of the tapes he was caught with in Thailand were self produced and considering he is such a great father he managed to spend an awful amount of time pursuing jobs with other peoples young children and spent very little time with his own. So much for the great father story.
Another little piece of info is disturbing. Karr was carted off to his grandparents house at age 10 away from his family and his siblings and was raised seperately from the others. The Karr family refuses to explain why he was removed and seperated from his siblings. It seems this guy has had some serious issues but again that does not mean he is guilty. |
Calliope
Citizen
Username: Calliope
Post Number: 975
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 10:40 pm: |
|
Bajou,
Did you see the newsclips of Karr? I worked with a deinstitutionalized psychiatric population for a number of years (no, the crazy lawyers came later)and sometimes there is an expression--or lack of expression--in the eyes, I can't articulate it, or really describe it, but there are characteristics that are recognizable, if you can interpret the cues. This man has all the hallmarks and the affect of someone who is deeply, deeply disturbed.
I know prosecutors who would be of the opinion that if this guy didn't commit this murder, he's guilty of something.
I feel like a voyeur--- I'm taking a shower, and going to sleep.
Calli |
Scully
Citizen
Username: Scully
Post Number: 940
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 10:49 pm: |
|
mrmaplewood - no flaming from me. I totally agree with you. Those videos make me sick. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5969
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 11:49 pm: |
|
sk8 I agree with you if they had found a match they would have hauled the person in! It was kind of funny in a sad way in addition to the part of the article I posted in one of the news blurbs they made it a point to say they weren't saying if the DNA had ever matched anyone.' <shaking>
Something mentioned on Primetime tonight struck me as odd, he wasn't even allowed to see his own children. I also think one of the brothers mentioned in one of the articles I read he hadn't been in touch with this guy for years.
Maybe in his mind he was there. I agree with Calliope. He does have this certain type of look in his eyes. Kind of a detached look as if he might be schizophrenic maybe? Delusional? There is no way JonBenet was killed by 'accident.'
I happened to Tivo Primetime if anyone is interested in seeing it. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5970
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 11:53 pm: |
|
BTW Glock-
One of the main reasons Jonbenet's story got into the news and got the exposure it did was because of the costumes she wore in the beauty pageants. Not because of the reasons you stated.
Someone also mentioned if a black child were missing we wouldn't know about it. Well, since 4pm this afternoon there have been Amber Alert's for a child snatched from the Port Authority. So, much for that logic. |
Nancy - LibraryLady
Supporter
Username: Librarylady
Post Number: 3809
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 12:07 am: |
|
Fancinating background info on the "suspect"
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/17/ramsey.suspect.ap/index.html |
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 1780
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 1:42 am: |
|
I'm talking consistent national news coverage, jta. |
combustion
Citizen
Username: Spontaneous
Post Number: 404
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 2:16 am: |
|
Unfortunately, Glock is correct. The the costumes and pageants are what kept her in the tabloids for so long, but the "legitimate" news stations covered this story because the missing child was a little white girl. Had she been black or latino, she probably would have only received local coverage, and it would have died out quickly. Look at news stories concerning abducted or murdered children. Look at the children featured. Do you really believe that white children are the only ones being preyed on? I find it sad that news stations give national coverage missing children only if they are white. ALL children are important and should receive coverage. |
melicious
Citizen
Username: Melicious
Post Number: 724
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 8:15 am: |
|
Couldn't agree more. |
Soparents
Supporter
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 2695
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 8:49 am: |
|
It just doesn't add up.
As much as I want the killer caught and dealt with with every method of punishment out there, I want it to be beyond doubt.
I hope they have the right man, but something isn't right. "I was there when she died, I loved her, it's important that people know I loved her"... how dramatic. This could almost be a film script. On his now removed resume, it says that his hobbies are singing and song writing and acting.
Could it be that this man, who we know is mentally sick anyway with the kiddy porn he had, has another mental illness and has convinced himself that he is guilty? It could also be that he's getting his rocks off with people thinking he did it. Wow, have all the media attention focused on you when you did nothing..
I feel sick to my stomach looking at him. There is definately something abnormal there beyond the liking of kiddy porn, which in itself if horrific.
|
Calliope
Citizen
Username: Calliope
Post Number: 980
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 9:01 am: |
|
SOP,
I believe if good exists in this world,so, too, does evil. That is what you and I are responding to, a malign spirit. Disconcerting, and just plain creepy.
Calli |
sportsnut
Citizen
Username: Sportsnut
Post Number: 2547
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 11:41 am: |
|
I think that the story has been captivating to a national audience because of "our" fascination with wealth and what happens to people like the Ramseys. Not because she was white. There are plenty of white children that go missing that we never hear of. It could also be that the profile of a pedophile is that of a white male and studies have shown that these predators rarely "hunt" for people of a different race.
Glock - I read recently that you eat 10,000 calories a day. Do you really eat that much? Is it because you need all that energy to carry around that rather large chip you have on your shoulder?
To the original thread - I'm in agreement with most posters here. Something doesn't seem right about this. I hope I'm wrong and this is the guy but either he's looking for fame or just plain stupid. |
jet
Citizen
Username: Jet
Post Number: 1189
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 3:31 pm: |
|
Maybe Richard Jewel was with him . This smells to high heaven . The Man was embarassed by this case , they soiled the crime scene right from the moment they showed up. They actualy let John Ramsey pick up the body from the basement & place it under the X-mas tree. Myself I allways had the son as a suspect. Hence the lawyering up , I also think they got afraid of the cops desperation. |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 1586
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 5:39 pm: |
|
Jet: I am right there with you. I have to admit that I always pegged the son who always stuck out like a sore thumb on the family pictures. I thougth the parents were covering for him.
Sportsnut: You are dead on when it comes to profiling. Most pedphiles and serial killers are white, male, german background and start killing between the ages of 25 - 40. That is why I stated earlier he was quite young to become violent that early.
Here is some more scum bags that need to be shut down:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pedophile_activism
North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paedophile_Information_Exchange |
melicious
Citizen
Username: Melicious
Post Number: 725
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 5:45 pm: |
|
Wow.
What is suspicious about the son? How old was he at the time?
Why would you want to put your deceased child under the tree?
Here's my next concerning thought: how many mentally-unstable women will be writing him in prison? I bet a whole bunch. That is the creepiest phenomenon ever, the whole "he needs me, I can fix him" syndrome.
I really don't think its a chip on Glock's shoulder, but rather a very noticed pattern of American reporting.
I'll start with the most accessible:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome
Here's the award winning article about it in Essence Magazine:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1264/is_3_36/ai_n14730176
Here's an academic paper on this phenomenon:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/j40611p110113032/
This book also discusses it:
http://www.leaonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207/S15327825MCS0503_1?journalCode=mcs
Sorry to over-reference, but as a researcher working in communications, this is my gig. |
Debby
Citizen
Username: Debby
Post Number: 2386
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 6:11 pm: |
|
Bajou -
That NAMBLA freak, Peter Melzer, was a physics teacher at my high school (Bronx HS of Science) when my brother and I were there. The NAMBLA story broke several years later. He turned it into a 1st amendment issue. |
amandacat
Citizen
Username: Amandacat
Post Number: 1163
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 9:01 pm: |
|
Debby, I'm a Science grad too, class of '88. Never had Melzer, but I think some of my friends did. Lots of creepy teachers there, to be honest, but the NAMBLA thing really puts him over the top! |
fiche
Citizen
Username: Fiche
Post Number: 236
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 11:16 pm: |
|
Thank you, Melicious, for posting those articles. |
Sandi and Paul
Citizen
Username: Momsandi
Post Number: 122
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 10:21 am: |
|
It does look a lot less likely that the suspect was actually anywhere near Jon Benet. He was obviously looking for attention and feeling guilty about his battle with pedophilia. If as "normal" people we are disturbed with the images of Jon Benet acting liking a provocative adult in the "child beauty pageants", think what the images do to pedophiles and disturbed individuals. We need to put pressure as a society on these pageants to make them as unacceptable as wearing fur coats. I am willing to bet that these images have led to acting out behaviors in disturbed adults and this is probably one of the reasons why we see more adults trying to lure children with the internet,etc. Whether or not the Ramsey's are guilty of murder, in my mind, they are guilty of not properly bringing up their young daughter.
Furthermore, why all this emphasis on outer beauty rather than inner beauty? Totally distasteful and downright harmful! |
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page