| Author |
Message |
    
Ms. Cooper
Citizen
Username: Ms_cooper
Post Number: 98
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 2:14 pm: | 
|
I am a vegetarian.
Although I feel very strongly about this personal choice, I don’t advertise it to the rest of the world and I don’t give a fig what other people choose to eat or not. Smug vegetarians bore the pi** out of me as I am sure they do many a carnivore; but stuck in the office on a rainy Friday with no one around to entertain me, I feel the need to vent in this forum.
I understand that the food-service industry, namely the over-priced, ready-to-eat, quickie lunch options in midtown Manhattan need to pander to the masses in order to make a buck and that a large part of the lunch-buying public in midtown is carnivorous. But don’t LIE to me about something being meatless when it isn’t.
For example; today at lunch I was inquiring about a tofu dish at one steam-table establishment that was swimming in sauce that had stringy, pork-like shreds floating around in it. “Ya! Ya! Begetarian! Sure!” was the response I got. Neighboring dish? Pork in brown sauce! I walked out.
On to the next stop. “Rice bowl with tofu”, says I. “Sauce?” says he as he pulls the spoon from the chicken entrée and makes like to dunk it into the murky teriyaki gravy. Too horrified to assert myself (issue to be dealt with in a different thread), I stammer out a “no”, pay my $8.50, and spend the rest of my lunch choking back dry, tasteless tofu cubes over rice.
This makes me crazy. Why does everything have to have meat in it? Say I had a peanut allergy or some other type of health-related issue that restricted my diet. I would want to feel comfortable that the information about the content of my food was accurate.
The other thing that gets my goat is when I ask for a Big Mac sans the two all-beef patties (one of my very favorite treats). The person taking my order always informs me that he/she will have to charge me the same amount for the sandwich even though it doesn’t have meat on it. This cracks me up. They always look at me wide-eyed waiting for my answer. Like maybe right then and there in McDonald’s, faced with getting less for the same price as more, I am going to have some crazy epiphany and start eating meat. And then they are always really surprised at my answer of “that’s fine” and sort of raise their eyebrows and shake their heads in a do-what-you-want-but-I-think-you’re-making-a-big-mistake type of way.
Maybe. But I am OK with that.
|
Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1973
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 2:30 pm: |
|
Then theres the great restaurant scene from 5 Easy Pieces
Quote:
BOBBY
(looking at his menu)
I'll have an omelette, no potatoes.
Give me tomatoes instead, and wheat
toast instead of rolls.
The waitress indicates something on the menu with
the butt of her pencil.
WAITRESS
No substitutions.
BOBBY
What does that mean? You don't have
any tomatoes?
WAITRESS
(annoyed)
No. We have tomatoes.
BOBBY
But I can't have any. Is that what
you mean?
WAITRESS
Only what's on the menu...
(again, indicating with
her pencil)
A Number Two: Plain omelette. It
comes with cottage fries and rolls.
BOBBY
I know what it comes with, but
that's not what I want.
WAITRESS
I'll come back when you've made up
your mind...
She starts to move away and Bobby detains her.
BOBBY
Wait, I've made up my mind. I want
a plain omelette, forget the
tomatoes, don't put potatoes on the
plate, and give me a side of wheat
toast and a cup of coffee.
WAITRESS
I'm sorry, we don't have side
orders of toast. I can give you an
English muffin or a coffee roll.
BOBBY
What do you mean, you don't have
side orders of toast? You make
sandwiches, don't you?
WAITRESS
Would you like to talk to the
manager?
PALM
Hey, mack!
BOBBY
(to Palm)
Shut up.
(to the waitress)
You have bread, don't you, and a
toaster of some kind?
WAITRESS
I don't make the rules.
BOBBY
Okay, I'll make it as easy for you
as I can. Give me an omelette,
plain, and a chicken salad sandwich
on wheat toast -- no butter, no
mayonnaise, no lettuce -- and a cup
of coffee.
She begins writing down his order, repeating it
sarcastically:
WAITRESS
One Number Two, and a chicken sal
san -- hold the butter, the mayo,
the lettuce -- and a cup of
coffee... Anything else?
BOBBY
Now all you have to do is hold the
chicken, bring me the toast, charge
me for the sandwich, and you
haven't broken any rules.
WAITRESS
(challenging him)
You want me to hold the chicken.
BOBBY
Yeah. I want you to hold it between
your knees.
|
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 1817
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 2:34 pm: |
|
"... as I am sure they do many a carnivore"
"a large part of the lunch-buying public in midtown is carnivorous."
The correct term would be omnivore. Carnivores only eat meat. Additionally both are terms generally used to designate types of animals and vegetarian doesn't really fit in the same category as herbivore, omnivore, and carnivore.
And why don't you just make your own lunch? Problem solved. I don't see any real problem here at all. |
combustion
Citizen
Username: Spontaneous
Post Number: 459
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 2:37 pm: |
|
From personal observation, it seems to me that people who eat vegetarian do so for one of three reasons. Health, principle or religious. People who don't eat meat for health reasons (cholesterol, hypertension, etc) aren't going to be affected by the same spoon being used on chicken and then teriyaki sauce. People who don't eat meat for religious reasons won't even patronize the establishments you mentioned. You seem to fall into the principle category. It might be easier if you understood that most people have much lower standards than you in regards to what is vegetarian. Maybe you could scope out kosher food establishments in your area.
And about the McDonalds thing, remember, those poor kids are making minimum wage for a job that would drive the average person nuts in about 20 minutes. Plus, they don't want to get bitched out by a customer when they ring it up full price. Sure, you know ahead of time that you're going to get stuck paying full price, but they don't know that, and are just trying to head off a potential confrontation with a customer before it starts. |
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 1818
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 2:43 pm: |
|
Also the workers at McDonald's have no control over corporate pricing and service rules |
Ms. Cooper
Citizen
Username: Ms_cooper
Post Number: 99
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 2:48 pm: |
|
I'm not getting down on Mickey D's. I just think it's amusing to get the same response 99% of the time.
(this is a tough room...) |
Scully
Citizen
Username: Scully
Post Number: 987
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 3:47 pm: |
|
I 'feel your pain'. Try to get a THIN sandwich anywhere around here. I always make the same speach, 'I'll pay full price...'.
And don't tell me to just take the extra (meat, cheese, whatever) off. Why waste when you don't have to? |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 8173
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 4:07 pm: |
|
I find it much easier to just bring my own lunch with me to work every day. No hassle about whether the restaurants near my office carry what I want, the size portion I will be served, or whether they will get my order right. For a few extra minutes of preparation time (often less than the time it takes to walk to the nearest lunch wagon or pick up the phone and place an order) I have exactly what I want, when I want it, get to stick to my diet and save money as well.
Definitely a win/win in a situation where you have trouble finding what you want fro lunch at local vendors.
Before you ask, I don't think that restaurants or lunch counters are obligated to meet the food needs of everyone who may be in their vicinity and want to order lunch but I do believe that if you develop a regular customer relationship with a nearby lunch provider and are willing to place your order the day before, they will be happy to have what you want waiting for you every day. Another option I have found works is to frequent do-it-yourself salad bars where each of the ingredients is in a separate container and separate utensils are used to dish out each item. |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 3207
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 4:12 pm: |
|
"a Big Mac sans the two all-beef patties (one of my very favorite treats)"
What a culinary desert vegetarians must live in. |
Spare_o
Supporter
Username: Spare_o
Post Number: 448
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 4:46 pm: |
|
I'm allergic to wheat so I understand Ms. C's situation somewhat. Many people are ignorant as to where their food comes from or what the ingredients are in what they eat. For example, I have heard countless times that white bread must be OK for me to eat.
While taking my lunch is an option, it's a drag to do so every day and it can be a little anti-social when everyone else is going out to lunch. I have found places where I can eat lunch at safely and I stick to those 4 or 5 places. A little dull but it beats an ER trip any day.
|
Flameretardant
Citizen
Username: Flameretardant
Post Number: 38
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 4:57 pm: |
|
Ms. Cooper, I gotta tell ya ... it DOES seem a bit silly to be ordering a Big Mac without any beef, I mean, what else IS there in the friggin' sandwich??? So maybe the counter person just thought you didn't realize that you were paying the full price for a burger that was basically ... not a burger. But if it's worth it to you, of course, that's fine. Seems like a pretty expensive price for three slices of bread and special sauce. But that's just my HO. Of course, if your issue is more about (as you say) "why does everything have to have meat in it," then the answer is simple. Because most of us like it that way. |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 3209
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 5:20 pm: |
|
The stench of McDonald's is enough to turn the stomach of a coyote. No treats are found there. |
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 1821
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 5:25 pm: |
|
Speak for yourself, themp. |
Joanne G
Citizen
Username: Joanne
Post Number: 563
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 6:24 pm: |
|
Don't the food safety regulations/environmental health by-laws dictate that utensils must stay with each unique dish? They do here. So for example, the teriyaki sauce ladle must stay with teriyaki sauce and the chicken soup ladle must stay with the chicken soup. That makes it easier to assume you have safe food for yoru needs.
I'm sick of places that put bacon or ham or garlic on everything , even as a garnish, then try to insist it's safe for me to eat. Garlic is an allergy - it is not safe if I scrape it off, do you want me to throw up in your dining room?? Bacon, ham etc are meat - they do not belong on a cheese salad once I have explained I cannot combine meat and dairy foods. Cauliflower cheese doesn't belong on my roast meat plate, either, for the same reason.
My brother was once told by a haute cuisine restaurant that the bacon-bone broth in his soup didn't count as meat (he was a kosher vegetarian in those days).
I can't order the day before - how the hell am I expected to know what I want to eat 24 hours in advance?? and why should I, when all the other grown-ups can be spontaneous??
Good customer service incldues excellent communciation skills. And that starts with, and always includes, honesty in labelling and full understanding by staff of what is in every dish on the menu. Otherwise how can they up-sell and maximise profit? You turn people into loyal repeat customers with excellent word-of-mouth referral value by listening to their needs and making them welcome. Ms Cooper if you ever come over here, I'll find you loads of places you can enjoy! |
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 1823
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 6:28 pm: |
|
Why don't we just shut down the food service industry entirely?! That way no one is offended, endangered, or otherwise generally grossed out. |
mrs_mooch
Citizen
Username: Mrs_mooch
Post Number: 34
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 7:17 pm: |
|
Vegetarians,
Mrs Mooch here from the newly opened Cafe Meow on Springfield Ave. We don't cook to order, but I just wanted to let you all know that I've had a couple of vegetarian items this week that might be of interest: roasted vege panino (gourmet baby red, yellow, orange peppers, red onion, zucchini all roasted with whole garlic cloves which are then rubbed on the bread) and an all-cheese (or three cheese) one too; fresh basil pesto over farfalle and a vege bean salad of chick peas, black beans, grape tomatoes, red onion, garlic, red peppers, olive oil, balsamic vinegar served over a handful of organic mesculin. I also experimented with a meatless salami and cheese panino that got a good review from a vegetarian that tried it.
We also have fresh fruit and cut veges and yogurt and will have smoothies soon. And I plan to have a couple of vegetarian options available all the time. I am also conscious of cross-contamination between meat and all vege, so I make the vege first on a clean cutting board to make sure I don't get any meat on it. We don't have a designated panino grill for the all vege one though. I know that wouldn't cut it for some veges (like my ex-sister-in-law) but hopefully it will be ok for you!
So although this doesn't help you during the week, I hope you'll check us out! I had one mom and kids come in who didn't do dairy either, so she seemed thrilled that I hadn't put cheese on the roasted vege one and said it was quite delish!
I know how tuff it can be with special diets. I'm allergic to over 30 different foods! Try eating out like that sometime!
Good luck with your quest for good vegetarian food!
Christine
aka: Mrs. Mooch |
Joanne G
Citizen
Username: Joanne
Post Number: 565
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 9:21 pm: |
|
Christine, you sound wonderful, and I wish I lived closer...
Glock17 my dear, it's about increasing the options for food service businesses to actually carve out their own niches and do bigger business by picking up the neglected customers from the ultra-ordinary non-creative food-thinkers out there. This means that you could almost set your own price level, if the service and the food choices are both of high quality and meet the unmet need. No need to shut down the food industry, merely open a few eyes.
On a positive note, several of the teenage fast-food summer job graduates from around here are now greeting me in their chosen careers of chef or trainee-manager for 'foodie'/gourmet cafe and bistros in the region. I don't recognise them, but they recognise me and ask sensible things like 'don't you remember you can't eat XX? There's some in the base stock for this sauce, how about trying (this other thing) instead?' or 'On Tuesdays we make a gluten-free pear cake you'll love - shall I save you a piece for 12 o'clock?' They're grooming me as a repeat customer now asking these shops to cater for training groups etc - increasing business profit simply by being attentive. Clever kids! |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 8184
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 7:24 pm: |
|
Joanne:
I understand your point about the spontaneity factor. Unfortunately, too few places are willing to keep a sufficiently broad menu to meet the needs of all of us with special diets. The easiest alternative to lugging in your lunch every day is to develop a relationship with a local eattery that is willing to prepare food for your lunch every day which meets your special needs.
Persons who prefer to eat kosher style foods or vegetarian meals actually have more flexibility and a better chance of finding something they can eat off of a regular menu than those with serious food allergies and/or sensitivities who may become deathly ill from eating a hidden ingredient (for example a person with a peanut allergy eating a food in which peanut oil is used). Sacrificing a little spontaneity in such a situation may be a small price to pay for remaining healthy. |
anon
Supporter
Username: Anon
Post Number: 3008
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 8:58 pm: |
|
Ms. Cooper:
I find it surprising that in Mid-Town Manhattan, of all places, you can't get exactly what you want. But reading this thread I see you have three clear choices:
1. Quit your job and eat lunch every day at Cafe Meow in Maplewood.
2. Move to Australia.
3. Have Joan Crystal make you lunch every morning to take with you. |
Joanne G
Citizen
Username: Joanne
Post Number: 574
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 10:22 pm: |
|
Joan, you're speaking from the point of view of someone who lives/works in a city with the population nearly the size of entire population of my state!!!!! In my region our ENTIRE population is 120 000. That's spread over two cities, a couple of dozen townships and many farms. You have better food options if your major allergy is peanuts, than if you're vegetarian or <gasp> kosher!!! Many food businesses have no idea what 'kosher' is. And anyway if you really keep kosher, it's not as easy as picking food of a 'regular' menu in a 'regular' shop as utensils, preparation areas etc all come into it, and regular outlets carry treif routinely. So the choice comes down to finding an owner-run shop that isn't part of a chain.
What has worked for me is finding chefs or staff who share similar food interests - they're vegetarian or have food allergy in the family. I still have to train everyone into what kashrut is, and how to balance my ingredients. My current fave place has a chef who is coeliac so everything from her kitchen is gluten free. She then carries lines which are also dairy-free or vegan, for instance, and I make selections from there. She has prep areas in her kitchen to guard against cross-contamination, and if there is nothing appropriate for my mood on a day, she can whip up special something fairly quickly.
Other places know me by now and can usually tell me what's suitable (if anything) when I walk in. I'm helped by our food safety rules that demand strict adherence to preparation protocols that prohibit mixing of utensils for fruit/veg with either dairy or meats (salmonella is a big thing here each summer, e.coli has decreased but is also a real threat, and certain other blood-borne bacteria from decomposing meats also create summer problems). If staff can't be bothered to find out what's in a dish, I walk out.
As I'm often not near my desks nor even near a fridge at lunchtime it's hard enough to plan to take food, let alone phone ahead for planned purchasing. My work region spans about 3 hours of driving in any direction, and demand can change from morning to afternoon. I often don't eat anything really solid until I get home at 6.30pm, because I don't get time to stop let alone go to purchase a meal. So fresh fruit on the hop sustains me when I can get it, and loads of decent coffee or water. Having said that, I can still chose last-minute from Asian, vegetarian, fish, Mexican, French/Italian and 'foodie' places if I am able to take breaks, despite being allergic (not merely intolerant) to most fruits and vegs, intolerant of gluten and dairy, kosher and prone to gout and asthma both induced through food.
Ms Cooper - move here!!!  |
Joanne G
Citizen
Username: Joanne
Post Number: 576
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 10:40 pm: |
|
Sometimes I get carried away and lose the point I'm trying to make:
in our regional population of 120K, there are about 40 known Jewish families. That means there is at least one Jewish member of that family - most only have one Jewish member.
Of those households, maybe 6 keep any kind of kashrut.
Shopping for food is either really hard, really expensive or really basic. We're in the basic category and I have to prepare everything for nearly every meal. It gets tiresome, so allies in vegan or allergic worlds are very welcome! Luckily these are seen as hooks for the travelling/tourist diner, so there is more choice and awareness.
We are attracting more settlers from Asia and from Africa. So hallal is becoming more widely known. I would use their meat meat more, and soak/salt/porge etc except that I know the imam takes shortcuts so as to not upset local livestock authorities. Better to stay with an uneasy bulk-food shipment from Melbourne when I can get it, and pretend to be mainly vegetarian outside the home. |
Lizziecat
Citizen
Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 1393
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 12:19 am: |
|
Joanne;
You could keep a cooler in your car for your lunch. Even better, there are little car refrigerators that plug into what used to be the cigarette lighter, and is now an outlet in newer cars. They work off the battery, so you have to be sure that they are turned off when the engine isn't running, or you could find yourself stranded in the outback with a dead battery. |
Joanne G
Citizen
Username: Joanne
Post Number: 580
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 12:34 am: |
|
Good ideas usually, but not in our summer weather - car boot can hit over well 50 or 60 degrees C. Ice lasts about 30 mins, which is my drive in to the office from home. My car didn't come with a cigarette lighter/power spot, so there's nowhere to attach a cooler requiring power.
Far better to have something fresh made when possible. Isn't that why Gd invented pubs?? |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 8188
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 6:17 am: |
|
Joanne:
Have you tried using an insulated lunch bag and adding one or more frozen gel packs to help keep your perishables cool? Another trick which generally works in hot weather is to freeze the contents of your lunch (when possible, not all foods freeze well) and place the frozen food in the insulated lunch bag. The food begins to defrosts over the course of the morning and is perfectly safe to eat by lunch time. These bags are light weight, protable, easy to keep clean, and require no battery power. Here at least they are inexpensive enough to keep a separate one each for meat and milk and even have extras for Passover or you can just wrap everything going into the bag in plastic and use a single one year round. |
Joanne G
Citizen
Username: Joanne
Post Number: 584
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 8:59 am: |
|
As I usually eat salad-y things, avoid sandwiches and don't trust microwaves for more substantial dishes, freezing doesn't work well for me. As car boot (trunk) etc usually has all kinds of work equipment in it, or shopping coolers (which means rushing home really quickly in summer), lunch baggy things tend to get dropped or forgotten. I was never very good at lunch even when in primary school, and most of the time I'm not even hungry until around 4 pm, especially if I am hydrated.
I have a system in place - it's called 'grab fresh fruit if possible - or when possible visit a friendly and sympathetic caterer'. I wasn't looking for more help, thanks everyone - this is Ms Cooper's thread, and I was showing that I understand her level of need.  |
Ms. Cooper
Citizen
Username: Ms_cooper
Post Number: 100
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 10:21 am: |
|
Thanks for the suggestions, everyone!
I get kinda cranky when I am alone at the office (especially on a Friday) and it felt good to vent.
I definitely want to check out Cafe Meow! Sounds great.
So this past weekend, my carnivorous husband (yes, Glock, he ONLY eats meat) yelled at me because I asked him if live lobsters were going to be used as part of his proposed clam bake next weekend. He told me "yes" and that I was being sanctimonious and unsupportive of the clam bake. He then proceeded to rip off his shirt, beat his chest, and loudly extol the virtues of eating meat, enumerating all the animals that he enjoys one by one. I just sat there and watched.
Nothing like a rainy weekend for bringing couples closer together...
|
Alleygater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 2544
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 2:11 pm: |
|
Ms. Cooper. I'm in a similar boat as you. I feel your pain. What gets me is Hale and Hearty soup. They are actually pretty awesome in general because they list what stock is in the soup and they have a few staple soups on the menu all the time that are vegetarian. But it drives me insane when the seemingly vegetarian dishes like Mulligatawny soup or Broccoli Cheddar or the Roasted Corn Chowder (I could go on and on and on because they offer very many veggie soups) all are made with some meat stock. I understand that French Onion soup tastes better with beef stock (at least an omnivore might think) and some soups traditionally use a meat stock. I don't like it, but I understand. But I would think that VERY MANY of these veggie soups could taste AS GOOD if not better with a vegetarian stock base. Similarly, I can't have the shrimp and corn bisque because they use a chicken stock which makes no sense to me since logic seems to dictate that it should have a shimp or fish stock base.
I've actually written to Hale and Hearty numerous times in the last 7 years begging them to try a bit harder on the veggie-looking soups, but alas they don't get it or they must think it's too hard to make a veggie soup with a vegetarian stock. Sigh!!!
So I understand your pain. Truly. What makes matters worse for me is that not only am I vegetarian, but I am stupid picky eater (even before I became vegetarian). Do you know what it is like to be vegetarian and not like eggplants or mushrooms? It's culinary hell. What is the one dish that every restaurant makes for vegetarians? Portobello mushrooms. Sucks to be me. But it's ok, I eat fish. Every restaurant offers AT LEAST one fish dish right? Even a steak house. Well sure it does. But I hate Salmon. Indeed it sucks to be a picky eater that is vegetarian. I don't suggest it to anyone. |
|
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page