| Author | Message | ||
     Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 6103 Registered: 1-2004  |
Okay, after what some posters had to say in the Gleason's thread about children left in cars; I will most likely get slammed for this but; I went to Staples this afternoon. As I was getting out of my car I could hear young children laughing and talking saying things like 'Stop,' 'No!' 'I'm telling you keep tickling me.' I'm looking around me to see where these kids are; but don't see any. I then hear the tooting of a car. Hmmm, I thought, what's going on? I start to walk away from my car when a horn toots again. I turned around to make sure a car wasn't behind me. As I did I saw some kids ducking down in a SUV type car. I hear a voice saying;duck! We're going to get in trouble.' This caught my attention, especially after the Gleason's thread. I walked over to the SUV. The tinted windows were slightly down. As I craned my neck to see in the back seat to heads popped up. I asked the two kids if there was an adult in the car with them.;To which the girl replied "No! My dad is in Staples." I shook my head and started to walk away. It was then I realized there was no way anyone could see this vehicle which was parked all the way on the end of the building away from the window, from inside Staples. I could have went into Staples and had them page 'whoever left your kids in the car you're an idiot' or something to that effect; but then I would have been just as bad as the parent. As I'm walking up the ramp to the door of Staples I took out my cellphone. I'm on the phone with information when I hear a child yelling, screaming and crying. The other child is saying 'Shhh, be quiet. We''ll get in trouble. The first child is sobbing 'She's probably calling the police. Daddy's going to get into trouble again. What if the police take us away? I was now standing in the front of the doors to Staples on the ramp where I could still see the car as there were some other people roaming the parking lot. I felt horrible for this but after hearing this I got the impression this wasn't the first time these kids were left. I also got the impression the police had spoken with him in the past. It was also pretty war, I had the air conditioner on in my car; so I can only imagine how warm it must have been in a black SUV with the windows only open a crack. Next thing I know the kids are behind me both crying. The girl asks me if I was calling the police. When I told her I was she asked me not to. She told me her dad would get into trouble. I told her I had no choice. When she said I was scaring them I told her I was sorry. The girl told the younger child, a boy, they better go inside and find their father. As I was telling the police what had happened; the father came out of Staples yelling and screaming at me. The police could hear him and asked what was happening. I informed him the father came out and he is yelling at me. That he was getting in my face. The only thing I said to the father was to respond to him when he told me I had no business calling the police was 'you left your children in the car.' Anyway, he goes storming back into Staples cussing me out as he goes. The police told me to go and lock myself in the car. The police showed up a few minutes later. I apologized for them having to come. They took one look at where the car; was parked; ran the plates; said they knew the guy, then told me I did the right thing. They actually went into Staples to look for the guy! As luck would have it he was at the copy center, the exact lace I was going to. I made sure I stood as far away from him as I could. The police pulled him away from the counter and spoke with him a good fifteen minutes. Anyway, flame away. I fully expected to get slammed for being a busy body; but you know what, I'd do it again. | ||
| Mr. Big Poppa Citizen Username: Big_poppa Post Number: 877 Registered: 7-2004  |
You did the right thing, JTA. Took a lot of guts, too. | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 1767 Registered: 2-2006  |
Good for you JTA! It takes a village and unfortunately sometimes the police. | ||
| sac Supporter Username: Sac Post Number: 3780 Registered: 5-2001 |
I will admit to having run into stores very quickly and leaving an infant in the carseat when I could see the car out the store window and was only going to be inside a minute when mine were babies. (There were times when that seemed to be the safest alternative in the situation, vs dragging the kid out when I would have hands full, weather was bad, whatever. Perhaps that was incorrect judgement on my part, but that was the conclusion I reached.) So, I have mixed feelings about the vitriol given to the parent who did same at Gleasons. However, there's no excuse for what this guy did at Staples. | ||
| Flying_char Citizen Username: Flying_char Post Number: 427 Registered: 8-2005  |
You def. did the right thing. I have left my kids in the car, when I run into pick up my laundry, but I can see them and they are 5 steps away from the glass door. Windows are all he way down in the summer and they are so big they can open the window if it gets to hot. Kidnapping. I have taught them not to scream help, but to scream, get away from me, you are a stranger and then generally scream from the top of their lungs, so they can get attention ( my attention) Good Job JTA. | ||
| Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 2914 Registered: 5-2005  |
Good call JTA. You did the right thing, and it took guts to do it. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12590 Registered: 5-2001 |
This brings up the question of at what age can kids be left in a car for a few minutes? From JTA's description these kids were talking and had reasoning power. | ||
| Case Citizen Username: Case Post Number: 1922 Registered: 2-2005 |
I'm not a parent, but my fear would be that someone would come along and grab the kids (as in, take them away). It doesn't sound like the children were in danger of being hurt by the heat or anything. I have to laugh a bit, though, when I think of the 'terrible dangers' I was exposed to as a child. Both my parents would leave us in the car when they had to run in somewhere... sometimes we were left alone in the house for hours at a time... I routinely walked home from school without benefit of GPS, cell phone and emergency locator beacon... all in all, it is amazing that any of us survived! | ||
| red Citizen Username: Redy67 Post Number: 7037 Registered: 2-2003  |
Case, so true. I was latch key starting at age ten, was often left in the car when my parents ran into the store. That said, JTA you did the right thing. Obviously that man is not the best father if the police have been called before. | ||
| newone Citizen Username: Newone Post Number: 445 Registered: 8-2001 |
Figured I'd post this that I received from a friend awhile ago....it's a little long but a good read... TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED the 1930's 40's, 50's, and 60's !! First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they carried us. They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a can, and didn't get tested for diabetes. Then after that trauma, our baby cribs were covered with bright colored lead-based paints. We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to mention, the risks we took hitchhiking. As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags. Riding in the back of a pick up on a warm day was always a special treat. We drank water from the garden hose and NOT from a bottle. We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and NO ONE actually died from this. We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and drank soda pop with sugar in it, but we weren't overweight because WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING! We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on. No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K. We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then ride down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into the bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem. We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, no video games at all, no 99 channels on cable, no video tape movies, no surround sound, no cell phones, no personal computers, no Internet or Internet chat rooms..........WE HAD FRIENDS and we went outside and found them! We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no lawsuits from these accidents. We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us forever. We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, made up games with sticks and tennis balls and although we were told it would happen, we did not put out very many eyes. We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just walked in and talked to them! Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that!! The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law! This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers, problem solvers and inventors ever! The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas. We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned HOW TO DEAL WITH IT ALL! And YOU are one of them! CONGRATULATIONS! You might want to share this with others who have had the luck to grow up as kids, before the lawyers and the government regulated our lives for our own good. And while you are at it, forward it to your kids so they will know how brave their parents were. Kind of makes you want to run through the house with scissors, doesn't it?! | ||
| Brett Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa Post Number: 2679 Registered: 7-2003 |
Something is fishy The two children were old enough to, surmise you were calling the police, assumed that the dad would get into trouble, get out of the car and ask you not to, but they were to young to hang out in the copy center with dad? Staples is a pretty popular chain store, but the guy using the copy center was local, enough that the police knew him? You suggested the children go inside and find their father, instead of walking them inside? Sure I understand the fear of a confrontation with the man, but you sent two children that weren’t old enough to be in a car alone, into the store alone? You saw the kids ducking down in a SUV type car, with tinted windows? Sure I’m picking apart the story, but this seems to be way to close to the Gleasons thread. | ||
| S.L.K. 2.0 Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 2047 Registered: 10-2005  |
JTA- I don't blame you for doing this one bit. I think alot of individuals who disagreed with what I did at Gleasons overlooked that it is only the Gleason's parking lot (due to size and proximity) that I would doing such a thing and never did it anywhere else. I wouldn't of call the cops but I am not saying it was wrong for you to do so. I am the type of guy that would of taken the children by the hand and walked them into the store and deliver them to their father. But that is just me. Hopefully public shame would set in, but if he did get belligerent then I wouldn't threaten the cops, but not before jotting down his license plate #. Why these kids couldn't go with their father is beyond me. They sound like they are 5-8 years old. I personally think it much more dangerous to leave kids at this age alone in a car. They are much more mobile at such an age. I ran into town on Labor Day to buy some hot dog buns and soy sauce at Kings with my 4 month old son in tow. I parked right by the post office, pulling up next to an SUV that had at least 2 kids (if not more) crawling all around inside, laughing, sitting in the driver's seat, windows wide open etc. They look to be 5-6 and another young girl that seemes to be 10ish who apparently was crowned the authority figure. I thought to myself, now that is not a smart thing to do. Why this Staples dip**** parked so far away and continously did this after getting busted is also beyond me. If these kids know the Daddy can get in trouble then I have to guess it has happened quite frequently. -SLK | ||
| Crazy_quilter Citizen Username: Crazy_quilter Post Number: 433 Registered: 2-2005 |
wait until you have an 8 year old.... sometimes they just want to wait in the car and i don't really think it's a big deal -- if you can see the car when in the store, or they can come in and get you without walking thru traffic, etc. I mean, i think the parent can judge the safety issue. what is the law for how old a child has to be to be left alone at home? i think it's pretty vague. we hired a 12 year old babysitter once. I said to her father "when we get home at 9:30, i'll walk her home." he looked really alarmed and said "oh, no, we won't be home and she's never been at home alone before!" I said, "...but she's staying alone with my 4 year old..." anyway, the part about the police knowing the guy is weird, but they didn't arrest him or anything, so how dangerous was it? | ||
| Scully Citizen Username: Scully Post Number: 1027 Registered: 8-2005 |
JTA: You did the right thing. Newone: cute, but easy to say, we're the ones who made it. I remember a classmate seriously hurt when mom had to stop short to avoid an accident. Today that would be a tug on the seatbelt. | ||
| shoshannah Citizen Username: Shoshannah Post Number: 1359 Registered: 7-2002 |
Just a thought: Statistically, it's probably more dangerous for children to be in a moving vehicle with a parent behind the wheel than it is for children to be alone in a parked, ventilated car. | ||
| peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 2193 Registered: 8-2002 |
Leaving kid(s) in a car when you can see them from the window in the store is, IMO, quite different from leaving them in the car and being inside the store. Especially since the kids came out and spoke with you, JTA -- reinforces that you absolutely did the right thing! Pete | ||
| Hillsider Supporter Username: Hillsider Post Number: 101 Registered: 3-2004 |
Brett'post makes me wonder... If the kids are old enough to know that the cops are being called, they are old enough to be left alone in the car... No 5 year old can figure that out... Most 10 year olds, ride bikes and know traffic rules and what is dangerous... So why call the cops on 10 year olds? | ||
| S.L.K. 2.0 Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 2049 Registered: 10-2005 |
BTW, what Staples we talking about here? | ||
| gj1 Citizen Username: Gj1 Post Number: 394 Registered: 11-2003 |
How about leaving children in thier bedroom alone at night? It's practically child abuse. So many dangers...they might fall out of bed, or someone might climb in the window and take them....or get hypothermia, which apparently can occur as high as 70 degrees? Children should be swaddled and held tightly until they're at least 18...maybe that's too young, I mean think about all the trouble kids get into in college...maybe age 30 would be better? | ||
| red Citizen Username: Redy67 Post Number: 7042 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hillsider, I have to disagree with you, my five year old would be smart enough to know the cops were being called, and beg someone to not call the cops on daddy. | ||
| crabby Citizen Username: Crabbyappleton Post Number: 787 Registered: 1-2004 |
gj1 and crazyquilter are the only other two with a brain on this thread. The kids probably did not want to go in with the dad. They're goofing around in the back seat because they are not strapped in carseats. These are NOT toddlers. So, it's the dad's risk by leaving them in the car. He has calulated this risk, and even if he hasn't, why the meddling? STOP meddling! Let people be! For pete sake. let them be!!! If you regard a situation as stupid, well, then, let stupidity suffer in it's own stupid bed. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 6116 Registered: 1-2004 |
Bob- the police asked me when they had me on the phone how old the kids were. I told them I thought maybe six and eight. The officers who came to Staples also asked me. Turned out the were five and seven. Brett Nothing fishy. they were old enough to guess I was calling the police because they had been left in the car other times and the police were called by someone else. Their father got chewed out by the police. Not sure if they were too young to hang out in the copy center with thier dad (boy was five girl seven); but the dad did have a third older child with him inside. the police knew him because they ran his plates. When the name came back the copos told each other they knew exactly whio he was, as if they had problems with him in the past. I di not suggest the children go inside to find their father. They came running up to me where I was standing by the front door crying while I was on the phone with the police. I told the police they just ran into the store saying they better find their father before the police came. If the police wanted me to go after them, they would have said so. I didn't see the kids at first. I heard them. As I was walking toward the store I heard the car horn toot. I wasn't sure I saw movement in the car at first. Which is why I went over. Though the side windows were tinted, the windshield was not. That's how I saw the kids duck down. (at the time until I was right by the car and peeked in, I didn't know for sure it was kids ducking down. You saw the kids ducking down in a SUV type car, with tinted windows? Hope that helps. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1907 Registered: 9-2004  |
WOW! I can't believe I'm agreeing with crabby again. When my kids were younger, there were times they asked to stay in the car while I run in to pick-up an item in the store. They have sense to know if danger approaches. Something that is taught to them by me. Sounds like these kids have some sort of reasoning skills. | ||
| mooewe Citizen Username: Mooewe Post Number: 371 Registered: 6-2001 |
I'm with Crabby, et al. I think the most dangerous thing that happened was that the kids left the car to talk to JTA - nothing personal, but you're a stranger! | ||
| gj1 Citizen Username: Gj1 Post Number: 396 Registered: 11-2003 |
JTA obiously has superior parenting abilities. It seems perfectly normal that she should express these by shaming other parents who don't live up to her level of perfection. These children are now rightly aware of what an awful parent they have. The bogeyman is ever present, leaving children in mortal danger at all times. Parents must be held responsible for this fact and children must never be given even the slightest bit of independence for their own well being. I say bravo, JTA! | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 2107 Registered: 10-2004  |
JTA was definitely sensitized to the issue by the Gleasons thread. Her response was done out of concern for the children and she should not be chastized for her concern. I would have left those kids in the car and minded to my own business as well but she could not leave those kids there unattended because she cared. I have left my kids in the car for a few minutes when I had a store errand to run and it really isnt any big deal. I was riding the subways by myself when I was 6 in Brooklyn. Still people have different ideas on what is safe and what isnt today. In her defense she did what she thought she had to do on the side of safety. | ||
| combustion Citizen Username: Spontaneous Post Number: 525 Registered: 4-2006  |
The difference between leaving the kids in a car, and kids in the bedroom (or another part of the house) is that if you're in line in Staples, you're NOT going to hear them if something goes wrong. In the house (unless you're in a VERY large house) you will hear your children even if they are out of your line of sight. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 2110 Registered: 10-2004 |
I have found that it is exactly when you CANT hear them that something is going wrong. You know youre in the kitchen making lunch and the kiddie is in the livingroom writing all over your walls with indelible ink. You never hear that. You dont hear it when they eat that thing that dropped 3 months ago behind the couch but was never discovered, you dont hear it when they pick up those scissors that they found when exploring the house. There is never a 100% safe place and so you have to make sure they are supervised as much as possible and trust that you have done all you could to child proof your home. | ||
| argon_smythe Citizen Username: Argon_smythe Post Number: 937 Registered: 5-2001 |
These kids should have known better than to talk to strange ladies in the parking lot. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 6117 Registered: 1-2004 |
SLK- You're right; there was a big difference between you leaving your kids in the car at Gleasons and the idiot who left his in the car at Staples. I don't think I would have called the police at Gleasons. If I remember correctly Gleasons doesn't share a lot with anyone so those who park there most likely are inside Gleasons. Maybe I would have went inside and asked whose kids they were if the kids were jumping around the car and said something to the parent. If the kids at Staples weren't making a bunch of noise and hadn't been hitting the horn, I never would have noticed them. They brought attention to themselves. There was no way I was going to tell these children to get out of the car to come with me into Staples. That's a good way to get accused of something. I had no idea the kids were going to come running after me. I was already in front of the door on the phone with the police when the kids came up behind me. I had planned to stay outside watching until the police arrived to insure the kids would be alright. The boy was 5 and the girl was seven. (I was pretty close with my guess to the police when I told them I thought they were 6 and 8.) There was a third child with the father. Not sure how old but I'm guessing 8 or 10. I can't believe some dummy left kids in their car in the lot across from Kings. That's worse then Staples because someone can grab those kids and jump on a train. The police most definitely knew who the guy was. They walked into Staples, one went to the left, the other to the right toward the copy center where I had already gone. Next thing I knew the cop was standing behind the guy; so they must have recognized him. Hopefully he won't do this again. He did try to tell the cops I was yelling and screaming at him. It was funny when after getting on the radio, they responded the only one screaming at anyone was YOU!!! | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 6118 Registered: 1-2004 |
Crazy- My child or not, I wouldn't leave an eight year old in the car alone. My twin nephews have lived with me since they were five. I won't even leave them in the car and they are now eleven. These kids weren't eight though. The older one was only seven. There was no way the father could have seen his kids from inside Staples. The car was parked to the far right of the lot in the very last space. There are no windows at that end of the store. They are more to the middle. I wouldn't have called the police if I thought he could see them. It would be differnt if the car was directly in front of a 7-11, or some place you can see them. This is a pretty busy parking lot on a main road. (I still wouldn't leave the kids myself). I don't know if the police arrested him or not. But they did all walk out of the store together. Maybe the police didn't want to arrest him in front of his kids? Maybe if they arrested him there would be nobody home to take care of the kids. Maybe they gave him a written warning or a ticket and told him he needed to appear in court? Then again, maybe they think I'm a nutcase or something.  | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 6119 Registered: 1-2004 |
Newon- Loved your list! Very true too! LOL | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 6120 Registered: 1-2004 |
SLK The Livingston Staples. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 6121 Registered: 1-2004 |
gj I think the kids already knew what their father was doing might not have been smart. If something hadn't happened in the past, why would the younger child be so afraid of someone calling the police and daddy getting in trouble-again? I don't have my own kids, and don't claim to know everything, but after the Gleason's thread, and having been in this Staples many times, I knew you couldn't see where this car was parked from the windows. What about these kids getting out of the car and running after me? What are the chances they even looked where they were going before they ran across the parking lot? They got close enough to me, a complete stranger, who could have grabbed them and threw them in my car, if I had still been in the lot instead of up on the ramp by the door. I didn't do anything to 'shame' the father. He embarrassed himself by coming out of Staples yelling and screaming at me. Had he not done that I most likely would have told the police never mind the father is here now. I also think if the dispatcher didn't hear him screaming at me they would have let it go. While it's true we can't smoother our children, the world is not the same place it was when many of us grew up. My brothers, sisters and I use to take the train and subway to Brooklyn when we were eight and nine years old. We'd take the train to Maplewood, Millburn, Short Hills, Summit by ourselves to see a movie. We'd ride our bikes all over town; be at the pool from the time it opened until the time it closed; at the library and who knows where else we'd be. We live two blocks from the pool and we won't let my nephews go there by themselves - like I said they are eleven. We don't even let them ride their bikes around the block. When I watch some of my friends children there are things the parents allows them to do that cause me to be uncomfortable. When the kids are with me, the kids know these are things they can't do. The parents don't have a problem with it. Back to the kids in Staples. I don't know about you, but I would never be able to forgive myself if I had ignored the kids and something had happened to them. But that's just me. A few weeks ago I stopped in 7-11 with one of my friend's ten year old child. Despite the child telling me his father would let him stay in the car; I made the child come with me -in the rain! | ||
| mooewe Citizen Username: Mooewe Post Number: 373 Registered: 6-2001 |
This just strikes me as terribly sad. | ||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 2390 Registered: 10-2002  |
I go back and forth on this issue (which has been debated ad nauseam on this board). But, it comes down to age for me. Young kids - never. Kids 6 & 8 years old being left in the car together for 10 minutes doesn't seem like that big of a deal. I'm also really disturbed by the kids' reaction to your making that phone call. If the kids were worried about "daddy being taken away," and the fact that the police knew him, being in the car for 10 minutes without daddy seems like the least of their worries. I realize you thought you were doing the right thing, and you may well have been, but reading your description makes me worried more about the kids now that they have to go home with an angry screaming father who has had some "experience" with the police before. | ||
| Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 2856 Registered: 8-2003  |
mooewe - it strikes me as sad, too. Perhaps the Aunt's nephews are immature for their age? JGA, what age do you think they will be allowed to ride their bikes in their own neighborhood? Do you live in a particularly rough part of town? | ||
| Scully Citizen Username: Scully Post Number: 1029 Registered: 8-2005 |
'let stupidity suffer in it's own stupid bed': Nice, except the father was being stupid and the children are the one's suffering. | ||
| Scully Citizen Username: Scully Post Number: 1030 Registered: 8-2005 |
LilB: The kids were 5 & 7, NOT 6 & 8. And they left the car to talk with a complete stranger. Nuff said. | ||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 2391 Registered: 10-2002 |
Thank you for correcting me Scully - it's easy to lose track of things in the longer threads. Still - having kids together I think makes a difference in the decision. Frankly, I can't imagine leaving kids at either of the ages listed in the car by themselves because of my own worries, but I don't think that it's absolutely wrong. Are they safer in the locked car or in the store where the "not-so-great" dad has 3 young kids with him that he's not keeping an eye out for at all times?? Seems easier to snatch a kid from a store than from a locked car. Does anyone know what the actual statistics are for this type of crime - ie - children being snatched out of cars in parking lots when left alone? I'd be curious. |
