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Message |
    
Tom Reingold the prissy-pants
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 1529
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 10:57 pm: |     |
sylad wrote:
quote:Again...what experience does Hillary have? What legislation has she sponsored? What bills that she authored or even co-authored are now laws? I don't even think that most of her resolutions have been passed. What senate committee does she chair? What is her experience as a proven elected leader??
I went to http://thomas.loc.gov and typed "hillary clinton" into the search box. I got 50 bills that appear she at least co-authored, though I confess I didn't check each of them. She did single-handedly write some of them. I won't list them here, because it was an automatically generated list, not a static web page I can point you to. I also learned that Clinton serves on the committess on armed services, on environmental and public works, and on health, education, labor, and pensions.
If you like, you can criticize these bills and committee participation, but I guess you can no longer imply that Clinton doesn't do (or hasn't done) anything, if that's what you meant to do.
Tom Reingold
There is nothing
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Sylad
Citizen
Username: Sylad
Post Number: 122
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 7:12 am: | |
A bill is not a law, how many are laws????
Again I will ask, maybe I will get an answer.
Give me facts as to why I should vote for any of the dems. When I ask this I get responses about Bush, but no facts about why one of the dems has the experience to lead our nation. I do not agree with Bush on many issues, but I believe that he is the best to lead our nation during these times, but I admit I am open to listen to others...as of yet I have heard (or read) anything that makes me want to change my mind.
Whoever wins in Nov. come Jan, regardless of my vote, that person will become MY President, and while I may be critical of his/her actions I will be supportive for 4 years. |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2006
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 7:28 am: | |
This could be the phrase of 2003 most at odds with itself:
"...and while I may be critical of his/her actions I will be supportive for 4 years." |
Tom Reingold the prissy-pants
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 1539
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 9:19 am: | |
What's your point, sylad?
I don't know the answer to your question, but I've given you the address of the website if you're interested in using data to make your point. Congress does write lots of boring laws that don't make the news.
Tom Reingold
There is nothing
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Sylad
Citizen
Username: Sylad
Post Number: 123
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 1:01 pm: | |
My point is that in almost three years what has she accomplished? What would make anyone think she would be a good President? |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2007
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 2:25 pm: | |
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
mayhewdrive
Real Name
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 633
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 3:34 pm: | |
Sylad,
The thing I love best aboout your posts is they could easily be stated about "YOUR president":
in almost three years what has [s]he accomplished? What would make anyone think [s]he would be a good President?
HE has turned the world's empathy for the U.S into the world's disdain of the U.S.
HE has presided over a net loss of jobs
HE has rolled back years of environmental progress
HE has given tax cuts to the rich & left everyone else behind.
You ask for reasons to vote for a Democrat...if any of the above statements repulse you (as they should for any thinking compassionate human) those are very valid reasons to vote for a democrat, since every single one of the democratic candidates is offering the exact opposite as "your president".
I don't know why you focus on Hillary....she's NOT RUNNING. Can you honestly provide a single good reason for people to vote for Bush? I don't think so, yet there are many good reasons to support any of the democratic candidates.
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Sylad
Citizen
Username: Sylad
Post Number: 128
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 4:19 pm: | |
MHD--I do not agree with your statements, not sure that the fact that he is the President makes him the cause for your all of points above. Other than FDR what other President actually can take credit for job creation. Unless there is a flat tax it will always be unfair to some, I am not rich but I am paying less taxes today. I like the fact I have more money each month, to spend or save as we see fit. I like the new laws regarding 529 plans, and child care tax credits. Not sure what you mean from an enviromental standpoint, Alaska or something else?
And as for Hillary, I did not bring her up here, I just pointed out that she has limited impact in the senate, which is typical for a first term senator. But I would hope for more from a presidental canidate. |
sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 10545
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 6:11 pm: | |
HE has turned the world's empathy for the U.S into the world's disdain of the U.S.
Nonsense.
HE has presided over a net loss of jobs
With two very valid explanations: something called 9/11, and the bursting of the stock market bubble, which took place under Clinton
HE has rolled back years of environmental progress
He hasn't been great for the environment, that's true
HE has given tax cuts to the rich & left everyone else behind.
Nonsense. Please go read the tax code under the section called AMT. Many people in M/SO, presumably falling in the class that you call "rich" are in for an extraordinarily rude awakening. While the regular tax calculation certainly gives the impression that the "rich" have been given a huge tax break, the AMT calculation takes it all back, especially in states where property taxes are high.
You ask for reasons to vote for a Democrat...if any of the above statements repulse you (as they should for any thinking compassionate human) those are very valid reasons to vote for a democrat, since every single one of the democratic candidates is offering the exact opposite as "your president".
As a fellow Democrat (and compassionate human being), I can't see any one of the current crop of Democratic candidates doing a better job than Bush. Not one.
I don't know why you focus on Hillary....she's NOT RUNNING.
Thank God. Hopefully she'll never run for President
Can you honestly provide a single good reason for people to vote for Bush?
Because he's a strong leader who has surrounded himself with solid people.
I don't think so, yet there are many good reasons to support any of the democratic candidates.
I can't think of one.
---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <-
Hey, it also wouldn’t look good coming out of a motel with your wife’s best friend saying you were just planning a surprise birthday party for her husband...- Arturo November '03
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United Strawberry of America
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1648
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 7:55 pm: | |
If the dems are going to run based on the state of the current economy be my guest. They'll get walloped on that one.
Oh, to be a lost Democrat in a sea of Republicans.
"We won't always have the strongest military"
--Howard Dean
"Most competent and qualified kindergarden teachers can tell you who the 5 kids are in his or her class likely to wind up in prison 15 - 20 years from now."
--Howard Dean
|
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2613
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 9:17 pm: | |
Actually, S., the AMT is going to hit those in the lower part of the high (or the highest part of the "middle") income range. The highest income ranges (who did receive the most benefit) may not be affected by AMT, but they're doing just fine.
You've made a good case for revising the AMT, to at least index it for inflation. But, you haven't made a good case for how the tax cuts were distributed. |
mayhewdrive
Real Name
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 634
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 9:33 pm: | |
Blueberry/S,
Once again, for the benefit of my fellow "tramp", Nohero - "Blind faith in your leaders will get you killed".
As a direct result of Bush II, the majority of the world hates the U.S more than ever. Travel abroad & see for yourself.
As for the economy - if Bush II wants to take "credit" for the improving economy, he must also accept "responsibility" for the miserable economy of the past 3 years. In reality, no president directly impacts the economy, so it winds up being a wash.
As for the environment - Bush's record is atrocious. I'll try to post relevent references some other time, but the argument stands.
As for leadership - that one's a joke. The only people who follow this clown are people who are too frightened to think for themselves. The guy can't complete a coherent sentence without some "bushism" appearing if the soundbite is not precisely scripted. You ever hear him speak extemporaneously? What an embarassment.
As for the democratic candidates, I admit that none of them provide the inspiration & innate intelligence of Bill Clinton. However, next to GWB, they are a vast improvement, particularly Wes Clark, John Kerry, Joe Lieberman & possibly Edwards. |
sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 10546
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 10:05 pm: | |
Once again, for the benefit of my fellow "tramp", Nohero - "Blind faith in your leaders will get you killed".
I don't blindly follow my leaders. In January of this year I wrote on MOL that I thought Bush was doing a lousy job on the economy
As a direct result of Bush II, the majority of the world hates the U.S more than ever. Travel abroad & see for yourself.
Baloney. India and China together make up half of the world's population. They don't gernerally hate us. Your facts are pure fiction.
As for the economy - if Bush II wants to take "credit" for the improving economy, he must also accept "responsibility" for the miserable economy of the past 3 years. In reality, no president directly impacts the economy, so it winds up being a wash.
As for the environment - Bush's record is atrocious. I'll try to post relevent references some other time, but the argument stands.
As for leadership - that one's a joke. The only people who follow this clown are people who are too frightened to think for themselves.
Just because you don't like him doesn't mean that you're right. Most Americans like the President and think he's a good leader. It's a fact. The polls show it
The guy can't complete a coherent sentence without some "bushism" appearing if the soundbite is not precisely scripted. You ever hear him speak extemporaneously? What an embarassment.
Nonsense.
As for the democratic candidates, I admit that none of them provide the inspiration & innate intelligence of Bill Clinton.
Nohero, don't the rules say that if we can't bash Clinton in comparisons to Bush, then it's unfair to compare others candidates against him as well?
However, next to GWB, they are a vast improvement, particularly Wes Clark, John Kerry, Joe Lieberman & possibly Edwards.
Based on what? Soundbites? What does Al Gore think of Lieberman?
---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <-
Hey, it also wouldn’t look good coming out of a motel with your wife’s best friend saying you were just planning a surprise birthday party for her husband...- Arturo November '03
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sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 10547
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 10:10 pm: | |
Dearest Nohero,
Please define for us what "rich" is.
Thankey
---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <-
Hey, it also wouldn’t look good coming out of a motel with your wife’s best friend saying you were just planning a surprise birthday party for her husband...- Arturo November '03
|
NRL
Citizen
Username: Nrl
Post Number: 416
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 10:50 pm: | |
I love how people post "The World hates us more than ever, Travel abroad and see for yourself."
Mayhewdrive, Have you been abroad and seen for yourself? How many countries did you visit and take that opinion poll? How many people did you speak with and when did you return from your world tour.
Aside my sarcasm to prove a point, anyone that says the world hates us doesnt really know that for a fact. The U.S need not worry about winning a popularity contest when protecting its citizens from harm. The "world" will respect us more for that in and of itself. |
sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 10548
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 11:20 pm: | |
Exactly
---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <-
Hey, it also wouldn’t look good coming out of a motel with your wife’s best friend saying you were just planning a surprise birthday party for her husband...- Arturo November '03
|
mayhewdrive
Real Name
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 635
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 11:23 pm: | |
NRL....I have been to Europe several times this year, if you must know. Of the people I spoke to in professional business environments, they perceive George Bush as an idiot and feel Americans must be just as stupid to follow such an arrogant person. In fairness, those people who had been to the States, did recognize the difference between the PEOPLE and the GOVERNMENT of the US and were smart enough to know the difference. However, the mainstream media certainly portrays the US horribly and many people I spoke to had a very horrible impression of the U.S., which is very different than when I travelled in the late 90's. Certainly not scientific, but perception is often reality.
So, speaking of protecting us from harm...when are we going to take care of North Korea, China, Cuba and all those other horrible places that are such a "threat" to us like Iraq? |
anon
Citizen
Username: Anon
Post Number: 887
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 11:56 pm: | |
Sbenois: What does Al Gore think of Joe Lieberman? Gore's endorsement of Dean says more about Gore than it does about Lieberman, and what it says about Gore isn't very nice. Not only does it say something very negative about his judgment but it puts him in the same category as an about-to be Maplewood TC member who shall remain nameless (because I usually have trouble spelling her name). I'm beginning to remember why I was for Bill Bradley. |
Ukealalio
Citizen
Username: Ukealalio
Post Number: 313
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 12:21 am: | |
I travel all over the world for business. Truthfully , I don't really care what other nations feel about us, as I know part of this is jealousy of our standard of living. Do most foreigners abhor Bush?, you betcha. Do I agree with them ?, yup.
Two different arguments. |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2616
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 8:55 am: | |
Response to a couple of the latest morsels from Sbenois.
quote:Dearest Nohero,
Please define for us what "rich" is.
I dunno. It depends on context, I guess. I didn't use the word in my post above. Maybe you have a definition you like (and, I did agree with your implicit point about the need to revise the AMT).
quote:Nohero, don't the rules say that if we can't bash Clinton in comparisons to Bush, then it's unfair to compare others candidates against him as well?
Rules? This is MOL; the rules are different here!
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United Strawberry of America
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1650
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 10:02 am: | |
For the record if you disapprove of President Bush you represent 3.4 out of every 10 Americans..In other words your opinion is a non-factor.
"We won't always have the strongest military"
--Howard Dean
"Most competent and qualified kindergarden teachers can tell you who the 5 kids are in his or her class likely to wind up in prison 15 - 20 years from now."
--Howard Dean
|
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2011
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 10:06 am: | |
By that reasoning, Churchill's opinion of the 1938 sellout of the Czechs at Munich was a non-factor. However, history certainly showed Churchill to be correct. |
Ukealalio
Citizen
Username: Ukealalio
Post Number: 314
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 10:10 am: | |
The masses are derrieres. |
United Strawberry of America
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1652
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 10:10 am: | |
history will do the same for Bush.
"We won't always have the strongest military"
--Howard Dean
"Most competent and qualified kindergarden teachers can tell you who the 5 kids are in his or her class likely to wind up in prison 15 - 20 years from now."
--Howard Dean
|
Ukealalio
Citizen
Username: Ukealalio
Post Number: 317
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 10:20 am: | |
History my ass, we already know he's a derriere. |
United Strawberry of America
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1654
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 10:26 am: | |
you and another 2.4 out of 10 believe this to be correct. A non-factor in other words. A small little minority.
"We won't always have the strongest military"
--Howard Dean
"Most competent and qualified kindergarden teachers can tell you who the 5 kids are in his or her class likely to wind up in prison 15 - 20 years from now."
--Howard Dean
|
Ukealalio
Citizen
Username: Ukealalio
Post Number: 318
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 10:34 am: | |
Straw,
You and some of your compadres seem to be obsessed with size. Feeling a bit inadequate are we ?. |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2012
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 10:39 am: | |
Churchill was a voice in the wilderness in 1938. Two years later, his opinion of Germany was the common view of Germany. Poll numbers have everything to do with who will win the next election and rather less to do with who is actually correct. Bush has two unfinished works in Afghanistan and Iraq. It is hard to say how these works will turn out. |
United Strawberry of America
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1656
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 10:41 am: | |
size as in masses..And yes we have the masses, so we have the power and the influence to make a difference. I've said this before and I'll say it again.
My goal and the goal of all like me is to destroy those who seek to harm the United States. We must do so by first eliminating those internally who don't understand that the defense of the U.S. is priority number one. We cannot accept 911 attacks. We won't accept 911 attacks. That's why candidates such as Howard Dean have to be stopped. They pander to those who don't understand the important issues. These are the type of people I can't have leading this nation. I won't tolerate it and neither will 6.6 out of 10 Americans.
"We won't always have the strongest military"
--Howard Dean
"Most competent and qualified kindergarden teachers can tell you who the 5 kids are in his or her class likely to wind up in prison 15 - 20 years from now."
--Howard Dean
|
1-2many
Citizen
Username: Wbg69
Post Number: 790
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 10:42 am: | |
the reason so many people appear to support Bush, is that they have been subjected to disinformation.
"if you ask people, ... were we right to go to war with Iraq, which still bothers some people, 61 percent say, we were right to have gone to war. If you ask them if we are safer today, a somewhat smaller number say, 56 percent. If you ask them if Saddam Hussein was personally involved in 9/11, which would explain these two other numbers, 52 percent say he was personally involved."
from http://msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?id=3759449&p1=01%7C%7C%7C%7C003
the totally false, but lingering, connection drawn by Bush&Co between 9/11 and Saddam has, falsely, created public support. I am hopeful that truth will prevail. |
United Strawberry of America
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1657
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 10:49 am: | |
that is true Tjohn, very true.
However, if the goals were to eliminate the terrorist leadership in both nations while building a government based on a Democracy we're on the way. It was a gamble for any President to take especially one serving its first term, but this is why Bush is a man who may go down in history along with Churchill.
ALready we're seeing Libya playing ball as a result. We're also seeing strong support from the Phillippines as well. Reports now indicate North Korea wants to finally hit the bargaining tables to disarm. We've made a difference in Liberia and the African continent as well. All this under one President and his three years in office.
Also, not for nothing but thr economy is humming along and as we all know people in the end vote based on their wallet.
"We won't always have the strongest military"
--Howard Dean
"Most competent and qualified kindergarden teachers can tell you who the 5 kids are in his or her class likely to wind up in prison 15 - 20 years from now."
--Howard Dean
|
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2013
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 10:51 am: | |
"My goal and the goal of all like me is to destroy those who seek to harm the United States. We must do so by first eliminating those internally who don't understand that the defense of the U.S. is priority number one."
The question is not whether to act in our own defense, but how. That is why there is minimal controversy with regard to Afghanistan and major controversy with regard to Iraq. |
United Strawberry of America
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1659
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 10:55 am: | |
There's really not any controversy regarding Iraq other then the fact that the Democrats who backed the invasion, wanted to back away from the invasion after a few months. Now that Hussein is caught they want back in.
That's the only major controversy. The anti-war folks have long since gone back to doing bong hits and cutting classes so they don't really count.
"We won't always have the strongest military"
--Howard Dean
"Most competent and qualified kindergarden teachers can tell you who the 5 kids are in his or her class likely to wind up in prison 15 - 20 years from now."
--Howard Dean
|
Ukealalio
Citizen
Username: Ukealalio
Post Number: 322
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 11:05 am: | |
The anti-war folks can't go back to their bong hits since Rush bought all the drugs. |
United Strawberry of America
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1661
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 11:09 am: | |
Rush's drug problems were prescribed pain killers. The end result of a very bad back. He's not a pot face or crack head or anything like that.
"We won't always have the strongest military"
--Howard Dean
"Most competent and qualified kindergarden teachers can tell you who the 5 kids are in his or her class likely to wind up in prison 15 - 20 years from now."
--Howard Dean
|
Ukealalio
Citizen
Username: Ukealalio
Post Number: 324
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 11:16 am: | |
It's getting deep in here. |
Montagnard
Citizen
Username: Montagnard
Post Number: 317
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 12:01 pm: | |
My experience is that very few native-born Americans really grasp how their country is perceived by others, unless they have close friends or relatives from other countries, or travel enough to understand the countries they are travelling in.
However, the large anti-Bush demonstrations in Britain were not difficult to miss... |
sportsnut
Citizen
Username: Sportsnut
Post Number: 798
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 12:21 pm: | |
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/29/politics/campaigns/29DEAN.html?ei=5062&en=9ea1 ffc64c5e720d&ex=1073365200&partner=GOOGLE&pagewanted=print&position=
Even Dean acknowledges the difficulty in beating Bush. |
1-2many
Citizen
Username: Wbg69
Post Number: 801
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 8:30 pm: | |
sbenois raises an interesting point about the take-back of the AMT. the published information indicates that yes, more and more Americans will be subject to it, and yes, it will take back any tax cut. in fact, ironically, the effect of the tax cut is to push more people into the AMT.
I wonder why this wasn't really publicized, when the much-heralded tax cuts were passed? could it be so the middle-class American people stay unaware of this trap, and give their support for a plan that's represented to benefit them - staying unaware until they're caught in that trap, later in the decade?
an important related issue is the cut in taxes on unearned income. it is my understanding that AMT does not apply to unearned income, such as dividends and capital gains. THAT type of income got a huge, 25%(!) tax break, from 20% to 15%. so the people who get this tax break - by far, rich people - DON'T have it taken away by AMT.
is this right? if so, it's a quite cunning scam to fool the middle class. and just one more example of Bush saying one thing ('we're cutting taxes for average American families') and doing another (through the tax cut, forcing more American families into the more-severe AMT, while smiling on, and blessing and keeping, the tax cuts of the wealthy). |
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