| Author |
Message |
    
Insite
Citizen
Username: Insite
Post Number: 186
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 7:13 pm: |     |
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Sylad
Citizen
Username: Sylad
Post Number: 120
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 9:13 pm: | |
What does this mean?????
Unfortunately the masses in this country have succumbed to instant gratification and ignorance. |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 413
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 10:35 pm: | |
If you have to ask... |
NRL
Citizen
Username: Nrl
Post Number: 410
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 11:00 pm: | |
Mark this down in the history books. For once, I agree with Llama. Lord help me..
This country has become the land of instant gratification and ignorance and I will add lazy to the list.
On the other hand we are the richest and most powerful nation in the world. We have democracy, freedom, capitolism, power, wealth and a functional government unmatched by anyone else.
Oh.. and a great President to boot. |
Ukealalio
Citizen
Username: Ukealalio
Post Number: 307
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 1:38 am: | |
Pukealalio, I love it. Nothing like a good 4th grade retort. |
Ukealalio
Citizen
Username: Ukealalio
Post Number: 309
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 2:02 am: | |
Straw just may get his wish, while he wears his Reagan/Bush button during the next election. I wouldn't want to advertise that I voted for a man who obvioiusly was entering the 1st stages of dementia (no , I don't think this is a joke, I think its true).
Bush has got the masses just where he wants them-SCARED. Add some Jingoistic marketing (ya know, just like his Dad, play Born in the USA without knowing what the hell the lyrics are actually talking about) and you got a landslide.
I'm scared too, for my son and the children who will have to live with the world this maniac is creating. Watch all the usual suspects go nuts saying Du(M)bya has craeted a "SAFER" world. Oh yea?, tell that to his personal friends and business partners, the Saudi royals. |
United Strawberry of America
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1638
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 10:09 am: | |
Ukealidio,
I'm scared for your son also because it sounds like his parents are how should I say this..a little confused.
"We won't always have the strongest military"
--Howard Dean
"Most competent and qualified kindergarden teachers can tell you who the 5 kids are in his or her class likely to wind up in prison 15 - 20 years from now."
--Howard Dean
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llama
Citizen
Username: Llama
Post Number: 398
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 10:37 am: | |
NRL:
Congratulations! You're half way back to reality. But your comment about these lazy, ignorant, instant gratification seeking people electing a "great President" is contradictory. Like I said, the key to battling terrorism is intelligence, not this administrations policies of violence and instilling fear in our own country, which caters to the lazy, ignorant, and instant gratification seeking masses in our society. You can't go after an idea with a weapon effectively, especially in this day and age, and it doesn't help our cause to alienate other nations, either. |
United Strawberry of America
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1641
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 10:47 am: | |
Llama,
When you say the key is intelligence, fine. Once you have intelligence though aren't you supposed to react to it? If the intelligence tells you Iraq has WMD'S buried somewhere aren't you supposed to react? If the intelligence tells you Iran has a Nuclear program aren't you supposed to react? If the Intelligence tells you Afghanistan protects Al Qaeda, aren't you supposed to react?
I really don't get your point. On the one hand you say we need to know, but then you say once we know we're not supposed to do anything.
"We won't always have the strongest military"
--Howard Dean
"Most competent and qualified kindergarden teachers can tell you who the 5 kids are in his or her class likely to wind up in prison 15 - 20 years from now."
--Howard Dean
|
1-2many
Citizen
Username: Wbg69
Post Number: 783
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 1:03 pm: | |
you're supposed to react by (1) investigating the 9/11 crime, (2) putting together the evidence, and (3) taking that evidence to the world court.
just ATTACKING when we believe a person or agency is guilty? without legal process? they didn't do that for Tim McVeigh, also a terrorist, and they shouldn't do that here.
generally, in a rational, intelligent world, it behooves us to analyze the reasons BEHIND crime if in fact we truly seek to diminish it. so we need to look for the motivating reasons behind 9/11 if we really want to diminish the cyle of violence, which will benefit US as much as anyone (though proportionately less, since we are so infrequently the target). |
anon
Citizen
Username: Anon
Post Number: 883
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 1:45 pm: | |
I really hate it when I agree more with the Right than the Left.
Should we have reacted to Pearl Harbor by "investigating the crime, putting the evidence together and going to Court"? 9/11 was not a "crime" it was an Act of War. Bin Laden never denied responsibility and late took credit. We asked the Afghan government, or what there was of a government, to turn him over to stand trial. They refused. What choice did we have?
Of course, this has nothing to do with Iraq, and in going to War in Iraq, Bush, et. al. said it had nothing to do with 9/11. They later began back-pedalling on that, which was wrong and is one of the things that pisses me off about Bush & Co.
I have absolutely no way to know whether Bush is doing a good job on the war against terrorism. I have no information to judge that and have no way to gage whether there would have been more or less terrorism but for Bush's efforts.
One thing I am certain about is that next year's election will not be a landslide. I wouldn't bet against Bush winning, but I will surely bet against his carrying anything like 48 states or anything approaching a landslide.
So, Straw ( and any of the rest of you so inclined) PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS! |
sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 10544
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 1:58 pm: | |
..
---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <-
Hey, it also wouldn’t look good coming out of a motel with your wife’s best friend saying you were just planning a surprise birthday party for her husband...- Arturo November '03
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Ukealalio
Citizen
Username: Ukealalio
Post Number: 310
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 2:37 pm: | |
Straw,
My 10 year old wants you to know not to fret over his parental units. He would also like to thank you for your entertaining posts which he sometimes reads. To quote him, "Wow that guys nutty posts are almost as funny as the Simpsons". |
NRL
Citizen
Username: Nrl
Post Number: 412
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 2:55 pm: | |
Llama, My half way back to reality means that your still halfway from reality, so we are even.
We have enough intelligence to fill the library of congress 100 times over. THe U.S. can gather intelligence all we want but if you do nothing with it, it is useless. Our government is doing so many things behind the scenes to better protect this nation that you and I will never know about. This country needed to act now to protect its people. If we didnt act now we would have looked weak in the eyes of the rest of the world and Korea, Iran and the rest of the nuts would have taken advantage of what was preceived as weakness. THey would have been the next to threaten us if they thought they would have the upper hand. Diplomacy is always the better way, but remember we are not dealing with Rational people. They are just as hungry for power, and when they get it they misuse it. |
1-2many
Citizen
Username: Wbg69
Post Number: 786
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 4:22 pm: | |
how could 9/11 be an act of war? it was not committed by a state.
it was committed, apparently, by a group of people with a religious/political message to the US. we should try to understand both that message, and why the radical method was used.
and we SHOULD adhere to the rule of law, as Clinton did during his presidency. the 1993 WTC bombing was investigated, the evidence assembled, the bombers tried - and convicted! how is the 2001 bombing any different? it's not.
I strongly disagree with the theory, "if we don't counter-attack, we look weak." quite the opposite is true. if we counter-attack, especially if we do so without gathering evidence, we look ruthless, and brutal, and barbaric, and neanderthal. we cannot legitimately claim leadership in the world if this is how we behave. and we certainly cannot condemn others for acting this way, if we ourselves do it.
further, just because a group takes credit for an act of terrorism, does not mean they are the ones responsible. we often have false alarms of credit-taking.
and finally, counter-attack that involves choking the innocent population, such as the US did to Afghanistan and Iraq, is inexcusable. we certainly would not tolerate someone doing that to US; the same standards apply to actions BY us, as actions AGAINST us. |
1-2many
Citizen
Username: Wbg69
Post Number: 787
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 4:25 pm: | |
furthermore: our demand of the Afghanistan government to turn over bin Laden, was met with the response, "Provide the evidence, and we will."
this is, on its face, quite a reasonable response, one like we would expect from the US.
the US responded, "our offer [demand] is non-negotiable." that is, we refused to provide any evidence. that seems pretty unreasonable and vigilante-y, doesn't it?
this business about refusing to disclose evidence that might compromise national security is a bunch of smoke and mirrors, there's no merit to it, and if there were, then you "redact" documents - i.e., remove the confidential portions and produce the rest to prove your case. this is done in most litigation, and should certainly have been done here. assuming, of course, the existence of such documentary evidence. |
Jerseyfabulous
Citizen
Username: Jerseyfabulous
Post Number: 52
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 4:46 pm: | |
1-2 Many. You're a naive pacifist. Your point of view is dangerous and your view of the world is idealistic and completely unrealistic. Apparently you are the only person who thinks the Afghanistan governnent would have ever turned over bin Laden. Even if he had checked baggage the 9/11 culprits, the Taliban would have never admitted to his guilt.
Furthermore our intelligence gathering efforts are far too complex to just white out a couple of names and turn over documents. |
Tom Reingold the prissy-pants
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 1542
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 9:51 pm: | |
Just a small point. There wasn't much government in Afghanistan. It was more like a land without a nation, run by local warlords. I understand it's like that again now.
That makes the problem of extraditing OBL a bit interesting, so to speak. No one really has the authority to turn him over or refuse to do so.
Tom Reingold
There is nothing
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1-2many
Citizen
Username: Wbg69
Post Number: 791
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 10:44 am: | |
Jersey: I think your points are a bit too cynical.
why not first give a GOVERNMENT a chance to comply with the law? and if it fails, refuses, or is unable, then there are external tribunals for resolving the dispute.
certainly a much more rational, reasonable approach than shooting first, and asking questions later. it is THAT attitude that makes the world more dangerous, not mine. |
dave23
Real Name
Username: Dave23
Post Number: 107
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 3:26 pm: | |
"President George W. Bush’s job performance rating enjoyed a bump up following last weekend’s capture of former Iraq dictator Saddam Hussein by U.S. troops, moving to 53% good/excellent, with 47% saying poor or fair. The rating had been relatively flat since September, even considering his surprise Thanksgiving visit to Baghdad airport." |
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