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Kenney
Citizen
Username: Kenney
Post Number: 262
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 8:20 am: |     |
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1019586.htm
North Korea
The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today..FDR..
Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth...G.W.
Everyone wants a voice in human freedom. There's a fire burning inside of all us...L.W.
Dave Ross is the coolest!!(being banned sucks) |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 617
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 9:17 am: | |
The idea that Bush is a right wing extremist is really new to me. I'm a right winger, and I didn't realize that:
1) Teddy's Education Act was right wing extremism
2) the biggest expansion of an entitlement (the drug giveaway) in umpteen years is right-wing extremism
3) that putting tariffs on a product of a wasteful and woefully mismanaged industry in order to keep union stiffs employed and getting benefits is extreme right-wingism
4) that the 75K pages of new -- yes new -- regulations on business and the environment are right-wing
5) that supporting race based quotas was right-wing extremism
6) that curtailing freedom of religous speech was right-wingism.
7) the Farm Bill which dwarfs that stupid tariff decision...
You leftists can't objectively see the world we live in. I know a righty when I see one, and a lefty. Can't say the same for you.
If Bush had all the above as 'accomplishments" without getting taxes and the war right, then he WOULD repeat his Father's performance in his quest for a second term and have us right-wingers desert him by just staying home on election day.
And that's the truth. |
Duncan
Real Name
Username: Duncanrogers
Post Number: 1382
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 9:39 am: | |
quote:And that's the truth.
as you see it
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"
Wayne Gretzky |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2629
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 9:45 am: | |
Duncan: Don't tell me you've already gone back on your resolution for 2004?
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Kenney
Citizen
Username: Kenney
Post Number: 263
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 9:47 am: | |
http://www.cato.org/pubs/tbb/tbb-0308-16.pdf
The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today..FDR..
Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth...G.W.
Everyone wants a voice in human freedom. There's a fire burning inside of all us...L.W.
Dave Ross is the coolest!!(being banned sucks) |
United Strawberry of America
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1689
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 10:20 am: | |
bottomline,
You can't say Bush is a highly popular President and in the next sentence say he's the worst President in the history of the country.
Tha American people have always voted out or given low opinion points to Presidents who sucked. For instance, Carter was sent packing in 80 and as history now demonstrates he was the poorest President of the 70's. He actually managed to steal the title from Nixon.
As I've said and you repeated in your own words, you want to believe Bush is awful. So, in your own way you look for excuses so your belief can be reality.
Halburton: They over charged and the book keeping snafu will be rectified. In other words, issue resolved and not a negative for Bush.
The CIA scandal is terrible news for the CIA. Not for the President. This issue won't reflect in the polls, nor is it a reflection of the President. I'm sure you'll argue this point but it's the truth.
The slow pace of the war?? Hmm, the intial strike to kick off the war targeted Hussein. From the get go Bush knew getting Saddam was the key to the war. As we now see, his capture seems to confirm this belief. The war hasn't been slow paced, it's been a tough hard fought war and one Bush anticipated. There were never false promises on this one.
Again, you want to hate Bush but you can't find real reasons to do so.
I look forward to reading your reply.
"and I'm p*ssed that I'm on the list, just so some p*ssant can say that he gave me a lower score than the last time (whenever that was)"
The above post was the last of many unpunished personal attacks committed by Nohero.
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Kenney
Citizen
Username: Kenney
Post Number: 264
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 10:40 am: | |
Jan. 2 (Bloomberg) -- A gauge of U.S. manufacturing unexpectedly rose in December to the highest in 20 years, an industry report showed.
The Institute for Supply Management's factory index rose to 66.2 last month from 62.8 in November. December was the sixth straight month the index has exceeded 50, signaling expansion, and the reading was the highest since 69.9 in December 1983.
Factory production increased in November by the most in four years as companies churned out more computers, appliances and businesses equipment. With sales rising in the fourth quarter, production may continue to grow, helping to sustain the economic expansion this year.
``Manufacturing looks very strong,'' said James O'Sullivan, an economist at UBS Securities LLC in Stamford, Connecticut, before the report. ``We are seeing continued solid growth in consumer spending, plus a clear pickup in business investment, exports and inventories.''
Economists had expected a reading of 61 in the factory index, based on the median of 55 forecasts in a Bloomberg News survey. The institute, based in Tempe, Arizona, surveys more than 400 companies in 20 industries, including clothing, printing, transportation, furniture and plastics. Manufacturing accounts for about one-seventh of the economy.
The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today..FDR..
Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth...G.W.
Everyone wants a voice in human freedom. There's a fire burning inside of all us...L.W.
Dave Ross is the coolest!!(being banned sucks) |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 618
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 10:46 am: | |
Duncan -- can you tell me -- a right winger -- how Bush is an extreme right winger as he's been characterized? Or is he just a right winger cuz you're from the left? I'm just looking for intellectual honesty here. Please show me where I"m wrong about Bush?
For instance, I know -- and admit -- that Howard Dean did things as governor of VT that are bordering on the conservative. I would say he's liberal on some issues, but he's no Kucinich who's off the political edge of the earth. Howard isn't currently running in the center and will be hard pressed to get back there for the general election....but.... |
bottomline
Citizen
Username: Bottomline
Post Number: 41
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 10:54 am: | |
No false promises, Straw? Paul Wolfowitz testified before Congress that the Iraqi’s would welcome us as liberators and that the reconstruction would pay for itself through Iraqi oil revenues. Six months later we’ve got rampant insurrection, the oil isn’t flowing, and America has an $87 Billion price tag. And how about the war in Afghanistan? Just yesterday the constitutional council adjourned in disarray because of irreconcilable differences among the factions. Afghanistan is in real chaos because western-style constitutional government hasn’t taken hold and because there is inadequate military security outside Kabul. At this pace, how long until the Taliban regains control?
Bush may be enough of a Teflon politician to escape most of this with American voters, but you still can’t convince me he’s providing real leadership.
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bottomline
Citizen
Username: Bottomline
Post Number: 42
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 11:00 am: | |
cjc,
Is Bush a right-winger? How else do you explain his choice of John Ashcroft as Attorney General? Why do we need a repressive demagogue like him leading our nation’s justice department? Devotion to (extreme) right wing ideology is all I can come up with.
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United Strawberry of America
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1691
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 11:02 am: | |
The majority of honest Iraqis have welcomed us. The terrorists have not welcomed us.
Oil revenues will more then pay for reconstruction and the redevelopment of that country. Before it's over Iraq will be one hell of an ivestment for American business and International business. These things take time. Rome nor Iraq can be built over night.
The only way the Taliban regain power is if Bush is not re-elected. It's just not going to happen. We went to Afghanistan looking to weaken al qaeda and those who support it. Both have been accomplished, but much more needs to be done.
Real leader? Again just a pot shot on your part, without evidence.
"and I'm p*ssed that I'm on the list, just so some p*ssant can say that he gave me a lower score than the last time (whenever that was)"
The above post was the last of many unpunished personal attacks committed by Nohero.
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mfpark
Citizen
Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 123
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 11:06 am: | |
The Democrats do not stand a chance until they can come up with simple, clear platform planks that make common sense to people. You can argue all you want about the impact of Bush's tax cuts, but most people's eyes glaze over. All they see is that Bush cut taxes--period. And Americans hate taxes--period.
If in the future these tax cuts lead to huge deficits, or disproportionate gains for the super rich, then the President and party in control AT THAT TIME will get the blame.
Bush wins with clear, simple and even simplistic statements, even when he contradicts himself repeatedly (CJC did a good job on this above). Even if he originally ran against deficit spending and nation-building, he will still win because he will keep the message straight and simple. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 619
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 11:26 am: | |
bottomline---you may dislike Ashcroft, but The Patriot Act had bipartisan support and was defended vociferously by none other than Diane Feinstein, saying the accusations of wrongdoing, overreach etc on the US population were inaccurate.
Again, aside from taxes (and the US as a whole is against taxes, EXCEPT in New Jersey) and the war, Bush has not -- repeat NOT -- governed with an extreme, right wing agenda. And I challenge anyone to prove that to this conservative.
And don't try Kyoto -- Clinton's Senate Democrats wouldn't even vote for that turkey, and they were hardly right-wing. |
Kenney
Citizen
Username: Kenney
Post Number: 265
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 12:16 pm: | |
If you spin the effort in Afghanistan and Iraq as humanitarian liberation, add in the money being spent on AIDS in Africa, medicare and the overall huge increase in domestic spending, one might think Clinton was still in office.
The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today..FDR..
Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth...G.W.
Everyone wants a voice in human freedom. There's a fire burning inside of all us...L.W.
Dave Ross is the coolest!!(being banned sucks) |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1713
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 12:23 pm: | |
quote:We went to Afghanistan looking to weaken al qaeda and those who support
That is the wimpiest thing I've read here in a long time -- and from Straw, no less!
If you've got an infection, do you take antibiotics to weaken it? No, because it'll come back stronger.
How about this: eliminate al qaeda.
quote:You can't say Bush is a highly popular President and in the next sentence say he's the worst President in the history of the country.
Of course you can. Popularity and quality are two very different things. For further reference, consult any right-wing screed against the immorality on the public airwaves.
Harding was hugely popular, now we realize he sucked. Truman, on the other hand, had approval ratings in the 30s somewhere when he left office. Now we realize he was, if not a giant, way up in the second tier. |
1-2many
Citizen
Username: Wbg69
Post Number: 833
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 2:53 pm: | |
Oil revenues will more then pay for reconstruction and the redevelopment of that country.
no they won't. the outrageous profits made will be harvested by Halliburton, Bechtel, etc. - big biz, maybe with red-white-and-blue investors, maybe not.
and if profits aren't made? if the whole thing falls apart? the venture is insured by OPIC - the burden for lost profits (!) will fall to the taxpayers.
the investor companies - Halliburton, Bechtel, etc. - have no downside. loss will be shouldered by the American people, gains will go strictly into private pockets.
oh, and two weeks ago, the Administration/CPA ordered cessation of the Iraqi body counts. we'll never know how many have died for this. |
Kenney
Citizen
Username: Kenney
Post Number: 267
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 3:07 pm: | |
oh, and two weeks ago, the Administration/CPA ordered cessation of the Iraqi body counts. we'll never know how many have died for this.
Iraq Infant mortality rate is 2 times greater than Irans. How many lives will be saved because of our efforts?
The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today..FDR..
Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth...G.W.
Everyone wants a voice in human freedom. There's a fire burning inside of all us...L.W.
Dave Ross is the coolest!!(being banned sucks) |
1-2many
Citizen
Username: Wbg69
Post Number: 834
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 3:19 pm: | |
Kenney, assuming that's true, that is likely due to the US sanctions that have strangled Iraq for the past 12 years. furthermore, you're only speculating; the current death is REAL, not speculative, though by US order it is unknown.
Cuba's infant mortality rate and other health care indicators was fine also, until the 1992 enhancement of the embargo. it was then that human conditions really plummeted there. and, btw, I believe THEIR infant death rate is about the same as the US's - which is 20th out of 20 industrial countries. it is a myth to hold ourselves out as any sort of leader on this.
*****
back to:
“Oil revenues will more then pay for reconstruction and the redevelopment of that country.”
Even if this were true, it is fraudulent logic to say, Country A can invade Country B – then SEIZE Country B’s natural resources to pay for it. (oh, and we’ll be requiring interest on that invasion investment as well.)
This also undermines the pretense of invading for “benefit” of the Iraqi people. The surviving Iraqis, that is.
If that were the case, we would be respecting Iraqi law, not pre-empting with CPA rules, that gut Iraqi industry protections, such as limits on foreign ownership and import tariffs.
For an eye-opening read, check out “Risky Business” by Naomi Klein, who covered the “Rebuilding Iraq 2” business convention. One memorable speaker there noted, “the best time to invest is when there’s still blood on the ground.”
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Kenney
Citizen
Username: Kenney
Post Number: 268
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 3:39 pm: | |
http://www.geographyiq.com/ranking/ranking_Infant_Mortality_Rate_aall.htm
The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today..FDR..
Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth...G.W.
Everyone wants a voice in human freedom. There's a fire burning inside of all us...L.W.
Dave Ross is the coolest!!(being banned sucks) |
sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 10560
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 4:01 pm: | |
Stop blaming the US for everything.
---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <-
Hey, it also wouldn’t look good coming out of a motel with your wife’s best friend saying you were just planning a surprise birthday party for her husband...- Arturo November '03
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