| Author | Message | ||
     Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5208 Registered: 12-2001  |
And Tom lives east of Valley. So do I. So does AJC. Straw on the other hand, lives west of valley. Make of that what you will. | ||
| LW Citizen Username: Lrw Post Number: 23 Registered: 10-2005 |
JERRYC--I live in SO, on the east side of Valley, and I totally agree with JoeR. I think that he, and all other posters that have spoke on the absurdity of the "War on Drugs" make the most sense, and seem to be right on target. However, I still think that we shouldn't relegate this forum to East Side vs West Side residents, everyone has something to offer. I am opposed to the idea of surveillance cameras; I think that an increased police presence will help dramatically on Jacoby, in addition to the formation of a Block Association. Also, I was very disturbed that the mayor could open his meeting by bluntly stating that new policies would disproportionately affect Blacks, and no one really seemed to care. | ||
| Chuck Berry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 6349 Registered: 10-2001 |
Look if it were up to me I would simply split the two sides of Valley up eliminating Maplewood. We on the west side would take our charming village (which we take great care of by the way) and become part of Millburn. The East side could join forces with South Orange and finally attempt to do something about SA AVE.. Maplefart's a stupid town...Let's can it. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2005 |
We just moved in, and this TC was our first introduction to the town. It appears things aren't as the Realtor presented it to us! This has left me with many questions, and as a Message Board purist, I'll start a separte thread since this one seems to be about the War on Drugs and not the issue. | ||
| steel Citizen Username: Steel Post Number: 880 Registered: 2-2002 |
Excellent post Joe R. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 6164 Registered: 5-2001  |
I'm not envisioning security cameras as a tool to catch "Row Walkers" (is there an official term for walking abreast?). That would be incredibly silly. I'm thinking about it more as a way to have evidence against car thieves, vandals, muggers, dealers, et. al. It will give MPD faces, descriptions, etc. I don't see someone sitting in front of a monitor 24/7 looking for illegal activity and sending screaming squad cars to the site of the problem. Given that many of these incidents are perpetrated by the same small group of people on sprees, it can be helpful to prosecute and convict. And I just don't understand the problem with holding parents accountable for their minors' actions. Someone mentioned earlier that there are extenuating circumstance, such as an "uncontrollable child". Well, hell. Why on earth does that parent get a pass? Are they supposed to throw up their hands and say "Oh, well. S/he cuts school, hangs out with thugs, sets shrubs on fire in the park and I can't seem to stop it"? There are recourses, hard ones, I know, for kids like that. I am sure that no parent wants to voluntarily put their kid into the court system. But, doing nothing is not an option and (IMHO) makes the parent accountable. In the meantime, I am not reading these posts as a "throw your hands in the air and give it up, all is lost" sort of thing. What I'm getting is that there are proactive actions going on here. Maybe in some neighborhoods, "proactive" is not quite the rigth description. I still think that we need to separate the at-risk kids from the actual thugs and reach out to those kids. I am willing to fork over for that. Every area has it's problems. I wouldn't blame the realtor or feel misled. I'd be happy that the town is addressing a problem. We knew that we were buying on the border of Irvington when we moved here and knew that it brought different levels of risk that moving further west may not have. It is up to the potential home owner to do their homework about the area. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 6165 Registered: 5-2001 |
Oh, well west of Valley. Near SA and Boyden, thank you very much. And yes, I've dealt with the smart ••• kids and been a victim of crime a couple of times. | ||
| JerryC Citizen Username: Jerryc Post Number: 169 Registered: 12-2002  |
Thanks. My point about indicating where you are is simply to put into perspective the viwpoints. Obviously, those who live where most of the problems are might be more in favor of stronger measures that those far from it. Id like to believe that we all think of this as one town but for the past 50 years that hasn't been so and I don't believe that it has changed in the last few months. It was evident during the discussions about where to locate the new PD and it is fairly evident now..at least to me. Our chief of police indicated that he is STRONGLY in favor of surveillance cameras in certain areas. WHY on earth do we feel the need to second guess him. Do any of you know more about his job than he does? Is privacy the issue? If so, let's consider the affect that these crimes have on the people living in those areas. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt. The HNA came out in support of limited use of cameras. As for this issue of the ordinances affecting blacks more than whites, there are many things that have a disproportionate effect in all areas of life. Affirmative action affected more blacks than whites, many of the policies adopted by colleges (quotas) affected more blacks than whites. In this particular area of town where we are having the problems, more of the crimes are being committed by blacks than whites. SO WHAT? It does not mean that our PD is going to start rounding up every black youth and beating him with a nightstick. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 11056 Registered: 1-2003  |
Smarty Jones, there are still people who don't lock their doors. Most locks I've seen in Maplewood are a joke, too. I took the trouble to notice when I was house shopping in 2003. Most houses are easy to break into. I take this as a sign that at least burglary is not a big concern. There are crime problems to address, but I don't think we should be afraid to walk the streets and go about our lives. | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 4207 Registered: 5-2001  |
JerryC- I think that it is insulting to assume that geography dictates one's thoughts about the town. You've had lots of support here on MOL from people who are not in your immediate neighborhood. | ||
| JerryC Citizen Username: Jerryc Post Number: 170 Registered: 12-2002 |
ffof, I didn't mean to imply that it is true in ALL cases and I certainly didn't intend it as an insult to you or anyone else. I will admit to and am grateful for the support given from people in every area of town. However, MOL is represntative of a fairly small portion of the people in Maplewood and my experience has been that in general, people from above Valley are less concerned about what happens on the East side of town. It is a fact that many people from the West side still will not even consider patronizing businesses on Springfield Ave. | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 4208 Registered: 5-2001 |
I have never heard of anyone (anywhere) who would not consider patronizing businesses on SA. | ||
| LW Citizen Username: Lrw Post Number: 24 Registered: 10-2005 |
JERRYC--I do agree with you there. I agree that while most people here do seem genuinely concerned with your issues, alot of our fellow residents do see them as just that, YOUR issues. When I was in school, I remember my classmates parents giving me a ride home, where they revealed that they always thought that Seton Hall (Centre St) was the end of SO. It's hilarious, but sad to know that some in our community don't even know the borders of our towns, and like you said, let alone would they willingly venture or patronize the areas. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 9842 Registered: 5-2001 |
Greenday, I think you mean east of Valley.  Ffof, I have to agree with Jerry. There have been threads about how dangerous SA is perceived to be. Can anyone forget Straw's rants when his car was stolen? | ||
| JerryC Citizen Username: Jerryc Post Number: 171 Registered: 12-2002 |
ffof, I am on the Board of the Springfield Ave Partnership and believe me we are very much aware of a reluctance on the part of some people to partionize business on SA. Changing the mind set of many of those on the Village side of town and getting them to shop and dine on the Ave has been a difficult task for us. One of the reasons given is the perception that SA is unsafe. Others don't even know that there are stores there, and some have just said that they would never consider shopping there. It has gotten better but there is still a long way to go. | ||
| Ken Scout Citizen Username: Lightningken Post Number: 37 Registered: 11-2005 |
As a newer resident, I can tell you that I've never had any security concerns about SA, however, the only place we frequently shop is the Benjamin Moore paint store, because there aren't very many choices on SA, at least ones that are interesting. Most of the stores seem to be local service providers (drug store, hair salons, nail salons, medical offices, bank, low-end liquor store, quick check and really bad Pizza shops) and I'm unaware of other options that would draw my interest to frequent "the avenue". Build great shops and stores, and I'm sure people will come! My wife has lamented that she wished there were options on Springfield that would eliminate the need to go to Livingston or Springfield Mall...but there isn't. As far as safety, it has never crossed my mind. I frequently make late night runs to the KFC on springfield ave in Newark (by-passing the BK for it's lack of a drive-thru, and I've never found any stretch of Springfield to be threatening, particularly the stretch in Maplewood. | ||
| jem Citizen Username: Jem Post Number: 1475 Registered: 5-2001 |
Here are just a few of the Springfield Ave. options that are worth checking out: Topf's Pharmacy - best independent pharmacy around; NetNomads - great coffee and snacks AND you get to chat with Deanne!; the Post Office - shorter waiting time than in the Village; the Beaded Path; the 99 Cent Store; Burnet Barbeque; Verjus; DiPietro's; Ricciardi's Paint and their decorating store; the Judaica store (yeah, I know, limited audience).....and I know I'm leaving out plenty of worthwhile stops along the way. And how could I forget the Parkwood Diner? | ||
| JerryC Citizen Username: Jerryc Post Number: 172 Registered: 12-2002 |
I'd love to hear from other side of town residents who would consider making a late night run to the KFC in Newark! I for one prefer the Poppyes in Irvington! As for interesting businesses on SA, there are lots more than just service oriented ones. I suggest that you go to the Parnership web page: http://www.springfieldavenue.com/index.php and look at what's available. Or, contact the partnership and ask for the new map and directory. For example: The new Parkwood Diner is WONDERFUL. Netnomads is a great place for coffee and deserts, Food of Our Own Design has incredible desserts, The Hobby Shop is great, Wooden You Know has really neat and unique children's toys, DiPetros has some of the best Italian specialties you'll find anywhere, there's a new yoga place, Burnett BBQ, Soups and Scoops, Ver Jus is a highly rated French Restaurant with a great wine selection, Conways Deli, Topfs Pharmacy, a couple of great art galleries and lots more. | ||
| xavier67 Citizen Username: Xavier67 Post Number: 603 Registered: 6-2002 |
"I'm unaware of other options that would draw my interest to frequent "the avenue" Here are 4 options: Verjus (great food and a smart, reasonable priced wine list) Net Nomads 1978 art center Parkwood Diner And if you're jonesing for a spliff, you always have those guys who hang out by Hawk's Tavern (though that's in Union, not Maplewood).  | ||
| Ken Scout Citizen Username: Lightningken Post Number: 39 Registered: 11-2005 |
Just to be clear, I live on the "other side" of town (bordering Millburn on the Mt.) Gotta have that 3 piece and a biscuit! | ||
| JerryC Citizen Username: Jerryc Post Number: 173 Registered: 12-2002 |
Gotta admit, Ken. You got some brass! Do you use the Drive up or go in? | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 9845 Registered: 5-2001 |
If you want really good ribs and fried chicken try Church's just over the line in Vaux Hall on SA. To heck with that KFC and Popeyes junk. When I think about it we Ks have contributed greatly to the SA economy. The guys at Ricardi's know me by name; we leased an Explorer at Wyman Ford and bought a van at what is now Essex Chrysler. | ||
| JerryC Citizen Username: Jerryc Post Number: 174 Registered: 12-2002 |
Did you just say Poppyes and junk in the same sentence???? How dare you? Church's is GREAT chicken by the way. Lee Horner at Wyman is one of the nicest guys you'd ever want to meet. Right off of SA (on Burnett) is One Stop Repair. A great place to get electronic stuff fixed (TV, Stereo etc.) I still think we need a nice eclectic CD/Music store. But we digress. Let's get back on topic. | ||
| marie Citizen Username: Marie Post Number: 1355 Registered: 6-2001 |
Many of my customers are of from the "other" side of town Jerry, as well as from Irvington, Union, Springfield, Milburn, Short Hills, SO, Livingston - yesterday I had a new customer from Summit... I'm not sure that Maplewoodians don't consider shopping on SA because it's the "wrong" side of town, but because they aren't aware of what's here... | ||
| JerryC Citizen Username: Jerryc Post Number: 175 Registered: 12-2002 |
Marie, I think it is some of both. | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 1550 Registered: 12-2003  |
Nunzio's (on springfield ave.) is one of my favorite restaurants in South Orange or Maplewood. I actually like it a lot better than Burnet BBQ (particularly the salmon -- delish), and the people there are extremely friendly. As has been noted, if you haven't purchased food from Church's kitchen, you are cheating yourself out of somet of the best cooking around. Incredible fried chicken, ribs and fish, and Joyce Church has got to be the sweetest business owner in town (sorry Pizzaz). I know I'm supposed to believe that Springfield Ave. is a pit of despair that is about to bring down the whole town. Yet I can't help but notice it's the fastest-growing business district in either South Orange or Maplewood. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 11069 Registered: 1-2003 |
And they are currently renovating the sidewalks around Vermont St on Springfield Ave, which is in front of Maplecrest Park. It's going to look spiffy. Maplewood Tire, right at that intersection, is under new ownership, which makes it worth a try. I haven't heard any reports of it yet. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 9849 Registered: 5-2001 |
Yep, and I forgot World Tire where I reshod the old Mazda last winter. All of which brings up the point that at present SA is still a place you go when you specifically want something (paint, tires, cars, skateboards), not a place you go to browse. | ||
| Ken Scout Citizen Username: Lightningken Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2005 |
Drive thru usually, but with windows down and sunroof open...I'll admit there's a tax you have to pay, as there are sometimes homeless people that approach you, but again, mostly harmless. The Newark KFC is one of the cleanest, sharpest run KFC's I've been too. All those are neat places you mentioned on The Ave, but other then restaurants, how much do you really spend at these types of places? What about clothes stores...electronics...Appliances....Furniture....Filenes Basement/Daffy's...places we can really do some $$$ damage?? | ||
| JerryC Citizen Username: Jerryc Post Number: 176 Registered: 12-2002 |
cmonty, I hope I never gave you the impression that SA is supposed to be a pit to be avoided. Quite the contrary. All of us on the Partnership have been working hard to change that image. I wish more people thought like you do and would partonize the businesses there. It is improving every day and we should all support that because it makes Maplewood a better town. ALL of Maplewood is better for it. | ||
| RR Citizen Username: Rogers4317 Post Number: 442 Registered: 6-2004 |
don't forget the shooting on springfield avenue recently...right at ricciardi's corner. there is still reason to believe that springfield avenue is not 100% safe. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 11076 Registered: 1-2003 |
Unlike some other place which is 100% safe? | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 1552 Registered: 12-2003 |
There have also been one or two shootings in Manhattan, yet I still go to work every day. | ||
| RR Citizen Username: Rogers4317 Post Number: 443 Registered: 6-2004 |
call me crazy but i have a feeling a shooting on springfield would be more likely than maplewood avenue or millburn avenue. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 11077 Registered: 1-2003 |
True. The question is, is it likely enough to keep you away? The question is not whether it's 100% safe. | ||
| steel Citizen Username: Steel Post Number: 882 Registered: 2-2002 |
THE HISTORY OF RACE, (from the history of Steel). (My plans for the day were changed and I'm in a story-telling mood.) After being forced to leave my beloved home town of Red Bank at the cruel age of 9. (-Oh how I missed the river, the ocean, the pond, the woods, the town center, the close neighborhood), we moved to a shiny new 60's, (it WAS the 60s), development in an upper middle class 'burb of Philadelphia where there was absolutely nothing to do in summer except ride our bikes up and down the street liked caged cats. . -a town so white and protestant that my Jersey City father was actually one of the very few Catholics and was initially advised by the realtor that he might not want to move there. A high school so white that we had exactly three black students and two of them were brother and sister. It was so rare that I still remember their names after thirty years have passed, -Ralph, Wanda and her brother Andy. Andy and Wanda had the misfortune to literally live on the other side of the tracks that ran through one end of town. Wanda had the additional misfortune for herself and our young impressionable minds to neither be especially attractive, bright or hygienic, (sorry Wanda). The normally mild-mannered Ralph kind-of freaked out one day in the boy's locker room and punched his locker shouting that "I can't take it any more!" when another boy expressed surprise that his johnson was black. The other boy had apparently assumed, (we learned after Ralph calmed down a bit) that it would be white like the palms of his hands. It was not until the ninth grade that we got a single black teacher and I remember her name as well for the very same reason of rarity. -Miss Saxon who was very young and taught Spanish. She was eager to teach and full of enthusiasm. I was sitting in her class one day, when she asked another student to please sit down, -"Chip" who was a big freckled lout of a young man and not particularly well liked by anyone. Chip replied that he "didn't have to take orders from no n_gger". Time and Miss Saxon stood still for a moment until her eyes started to tear and she left the room. She came back in a bit with the principal and Chip was removed. There was a lot of muttering and some giggling. Young Miss Saxon tried to put on a cheerful face and continued. I remember precious little Spanish, (except curiously the word "albondigas") but I remember those five minutes. My father was also not loathe to use the "N-word" at the dining room table particularly in regards to "all of 'em on welfare" that were making his taxes high. He said that where he grew up in Jersey City that all the white and black kids knew to keep out of each other's neighborhoods or you would "get a brick tossed at your head". -He seemed to express some nostalgia for this simpler time. He also informed us that they had "ruined Newark". I don't remember his relating any story of personal involvement in violence outside of dodging Kamikazes in the Pacific and the time that he killed a big sheep dog that was chasing his little sister with a single blow to the head using a baseball bat. I lost dad in '87 and despite being something of a "passive" racist he was otherwise a very decent man. People called him -"the salt of the earth". Mother still refers to her friend Beatrice as "my colored friend Beatrice". I never heard any other adjective ascribed to Beatrice and had otherwise had no idea what she looked like until my mother's 75th birthday for which we held a big party at a restaurant. At the head table facing us sat all the old widows still left, -thirteen of them including my mother at the center like some ghastly old-lady last supper, -and there was Beatrice among them, sweet, mild-mannered, chubby and friendly. Mother still feels that it's "not their fault" if someone is born black. She still feels that it is "unfair, they won't be wanted by either side" of children born of mixed race. Some ten years after I moved to Maplewood quite a few black families began to move in. One of my brothers, (not the hippie one, -the other, president of his fraternity one), would come around and ask with concern, -"It's not getting a little dark around here is it? -you better be careful". I reflexively DID begin to be a bit concerned. Afterall, up until that time in America, when blacks moved in things went down. That was the rule. They burned things. They had knives. They talked funny. There were all sorts of stories. But I can be stubborn. I don't like being told what to do. I thought, "I like it here. I'm going to wait and see what happens." I thought, "Until I start feeling unsafe or see things going down hill why should I leave?" Low and behold things started to get NICER. Some houses that had needed painting had black families move in and they got NICER. It was amazing, and I heard this new phrase come to life, -"the black middle class". Gosh, I even got to get friendly with some of them, break bread together, drink beer together, complain about our wives and brag about our kids. Discuss lawns. Now, low and behold as the world has turned, my daughter is dating "one of these guys". The two of them are very much in love and he has been emptying my refrigerator for over two years. It is going to be rough next year when they each have to go to separate colleges but at least I will have more food in the house. I still can't tell my mother. It would kill her. | ||
| RR Citizen Username: Rogers4317 Post Number: 444 Registered: 6-2004 |
of course, not likely...but honestly, i live between valley and springfield and i definitely prefer not to go to springfield avenue if i don't have to. the traffic sucks. it is not attractive to walk around up there. unsavory characters, etc. the only attractive spot is around prospect. i still shudder when i go by the ricciardi corner, like i did the night of the shooting. i know a shooting can happen anywhere but this is maplewood...i had just moved here from the city and that event just totally blew my mind. i go up there if i can patronize a business because i think it's important to do so...but there isn't a hell of a whole lot up there to draw me. it just ain't cutesy-pie enough up there for strolling with an ice cream cone and window shopping, etc. | ||
| Parkbench87 Citizen Username: Parkbench87 Post Number: 2956 Registered: 7-2001  |
Steel, Awesome awesome stuff. I can definitely relate to alot of the things you covered. RR, It's really about your past experiences and what you're comfortable with. Obviously it's not Rodeo Drive, but I do not feel uncomfortable in the least walking on Springfield. I'm not seeing this panoply of unsavory characters and I'm there alot, and I don't get chills walking by Riccardi. Now I wouldn't be out walking on Springfield at 11 at night but that's because there is no reason to be there at that time and the stores aren't open. | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 1705 Registered: 8-2003  |
I believe the guy on SA was shot by his cousin. I don't think the moral of the story is to avoid SA. It's that you should avoid your cousins. | ||
| JerryC Citizen Username: Jerryc Post Number: 179 Registered: 12-2002 |
Steele...nice piece but you obviously have way too much free time!!!!!!! To the rest, listen to RR. Not because he/she is right but because it is very much indicative of the attitude of a lot (not all, not most) but a lot of people in Maplewood and from other towns. Unattractive, unsavory charaters, unsafe, nothing there.....RR is not alone in this opinion. We HAVE GOT to change that or SA will die and so will our town. The Partnership is doing great work to overcome this but until the people of this fair town buy into it, it will not really blossom. |
