| Author | Message | ||
     Meandtheboys Citizen Username: Meandtheboys Post Number: 2215 Registered: 12-2004  |
Great story steele, and probably so true about so many of us growing up. My parents never used the "N" word, but my father was only one step removed from a very bigoted father himself. Also grew up in the lily white suburbs and we had one AA kid in the whole school--out of something like 350 kids. Going away to college in the heart of Philly was an eye opener for me! I want my kids to have a different experience, which is one of the reasons I'm here. | ||
| steel Citizen Username: Steel Post Number: 883 Registered: 2-2002 |
Jeez Jerry, Can't ya just toss me a compliment and leave it at that. Besides, writing a piece like that is as easy for me as pouring a glass of water. Regards, StEEL | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 531 Registered: 7-2003 |
steel, what a gesture of brutal honesty! I admire you for that. Its amazing how the worlds of black and white are so different, yet so much the same. I had to laugh, I too moved to a predominantly white (94%) town in high school. I had a white girl ask me with sincerity, "what type of shampoo do you guys use"? Even had a white guy on my football team tell me, "I heard all blacks are good for are the three F's, fighting, feeding and f*cking". You can't make this stuff up. | ||
| Richard Steele Citizen Username: Brookwood Post Number: 32 Registered: 5-2005 |
sounds like whoever's concerned about not shopping on SA are just a bunch of P$$$y's.The world has gotten dangerous,not just some lil town that you love so much.Get a backbone, go out and enjoy your life and your town.Sheet, ya pay enough taxes, get All you can get from this town.I've been here for a year and I love all sides of this place.East,West, tupac, biggie..As they say....It's all good.Except for the post office in the village.Lines are shorter at the DMV. | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5230 Registered: 12-2001  |
Richard Steele...lines are shorter at the SA branch of the post office. I often go there instead. Especially now that they changed the hours. | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2369 Registered: 6-2002 |
Now, low and behold as the world has turned, my daughter is dating "one of these guys". The two of them are very much in love and he has been emptying my refrigerator for over two years. It is going to be rough next year when they each have to go to separate colleges but at least I will have more food in the house. Gives new meaning to "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner".  | ||
| eb1154 Citizen Username: Eb1154 Post Number: 412 Registered: 5-2001 |
As I stated the other night, THIS IS NOT A RACE ISSUE. It is a Quality of Life issue. Jerry C. is right in the fact that depending on wear you live in town does play a factor in how you view these proposals. I’m sure I came off as a racist with the comments I made the other night, but for those of you who know me and what I have done and continue to do know that is far from the truth. I’ll give you an example of the different views. That night I spoke with several of my friends who live on the west side and they were making comments about the proposals affecting the blacks more than the whites. They said “what about the white joggers on Wyoming Ave. will they be issued tickets for being in the street?” or “what about if I give someone directions, would I be loitering?” “If not, then this is about race.” No, I don’t agree. Are the joggers on Wyoming Ave. blocking traffic and do they refuse to move out of your way when they realize they are blocking traffic? Do they throw you the finger or threaten you when you beep? When you are giving directions to someone you have a reason for standing there, you are doing something. When you are standing there just to let others know this is your turf or so others can find you to buy drugs then this is a problem. This is the reason for the proposals it has nothing to do with race. Mr. Johnson from South Orange will have you believe it is all about race. He claims the police treat people of color different. Maybe there are a few officers (I don’t know of any in Maplewood) who do, but to class them all in the same group would be profiling. The same thing he claims to be fighting. He doesn’t want to hear anyone say “I don’t trust the colored people” yet it is okay for him to say “I don’t trust the State Police, they have their own gang.” If there was any racism that night… it came from him. After I made my comments I went to the back of the room and the people of color who live in my neighborhood said that I hit it right on the head, it’s not about race it’s about our Quality of Life in our neighborhood. The problems do exist and unless you live on the east side and see it everyday, you really can’t say what is and what isn’t a problem. Nor, can you say how ridiculous these proposals are. p.s. I really hate typing, so if anyone wants to discuss this in more detail I am willing to meet for a beer and conversation. (Although, I don’t drink so it would have to be a soda for me) | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8068 Registered: 4-1997  |
What do you mean they're not doing something? They're walking here!*  * The cab in the movie was not part of the production and Hoffman's line was ad-libbed. | ||
| eb1154 Citizen Username: Eb1154 Post Number: 413 Registered: 5-2001 |
Dave, Funny. But this has actually happened to me in my neighborhood. They actually hit my car because I blew my horn at them and after they refused to move i started to pull up and they hit my hood. | ||
| JerryC Citizen Username: Jerryc Post Number: 180 Registered: 12-2002  |
eb, Right on the money. I have been trying to make the point for some time now that this is indeed about quality of life and the objective should be color blind. What is now happening is reverse racisim. In an continuing effort to avoid discrimination againts blacks, we have gotten to a point where we accept discrimination against whites. Reasonable behavior in a society, consideration for others and ethics should apply to all. Those who immediately jump on the band wagon saying well, what about joggers on Wyoming or what about innocent black youths, will they be unduely harrassed? Not if they aren't doing anything that would put them in a position of being harrassed. Are we so afraid of our law enforcement running wild and clubbing innocent people? Is asking why a large group of kids (white OR Black) are congregating on a street corner harrassment or just good police work? Do we really think that our police officers are that inclined to act in such a racist manner that they would unjustly apply the law to one race verses another? If so, then perhaps we need to take a harder look at our PD? I, for one, don't think that is the case. Mr. Johnson threw the race card right on the table. It didn't take him 2 minutes to make his agenda clear and yet the TC let him continue to spew his racist remarks for another 10 minutes...inspite of a 3 minute limit. WHY???????????????????????? Have an answer Fred? You were perfectly willing to cut others off. Indeed and unfortunately, this has become a race issue now. | ||
| Gordon Agress Citizen Username: Odd Post Number: 282 Registered: 8-2004 |
I didn't mind that Mr. Johnson was allowed to speak over three minutes. There weren't many people offering that point of view, and it deserves to be heard, though I disagree with it. Had he been the third or fourth speaker to go along those lines at such length I would have felt differently. Later in the evening a white resident was allowed to go on at similar lengths about problems in the parks. I thought Fred exercised reasonable judgment. I've heard a rumor that he is not a Maplewood resident, and if true then I do object to an uninvited outsider taking up so much time. To me, the most interesting thing about his comments was that, despite the time given him, he didn't have any proposal for how we should address the problems that concern his neighbors. And while he denied there was a problem, he didn't mention that Chief Cimino put up statistics showing that robberies and assaults are up from last year, or that many people feel that a lot of youth are disrespectful and getting more so. If that is the best case that we don't have a problem, then I'm pretty sure we do have a problem. | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1306 Registered: 3-2003 |
Posters on newarkspeaks.com are applauding Maplewood for being pro-active: http://newarkspeaks.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9833&postcount=1 | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2378 Registered: 6-2002 |
(Although, I don’t drink so it would have to be a soda for me) Now I understand why you are so angry.  | ||
| eb1154 Citizen Username: Eb1154 Post Number: 414 Registered: 5-2001 |
anon, I have been in AA for 13 years now, so I didn't find that comment funny. Just kidding, I just haven't found a booze that I like the taste of yet. Seriously, I'm not angry, I've been very calm about everything going on and I have even tried to find some solutions over the years. I just get angry when people who don't have a clue get up there and suggest that there is no problem or that the solutions are racist. | ||
| Richard Steele Citizen Username: Brookwood Post Number: 33 Registered: 5-2005 |
I could be wrong and please correct me if I am, but didn't officer crimino's chart say that adult crime has risen this year? | ||
| Gordon Agress Citizen Username: Odd Post Number: 283 Registered: 8-2004 |
Yeah, and I thought the same chart said juvenile crime was down, at least in some categories. Is that presentation available online anywhere? | ||
| Richard Steele Citizen Username: Brookwood Post Number: 34 Registered: 5-2005 |
That's what I thought.so what are we gonna do about those crazy ole people over 60 years old that's driven below the speed limit and burning my eyebrows with that strong scent of Ben Gay.And don't get me Started on the ones that come ring My bell to tell me ten minutes till Judge Wapner.  | ||
| SO Ref Citizen Username: So_refugee Post Number: 1312 Registered: 2-2005  |
Just a guess, but maybe some of the juvenile delinquents are growing up into adult criminals... | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2384 Registered: 6-2002 |
eb: You had me very upset with your first sentence. Buy yourself a very expensive bottle of wine for Christmas/Hannukah. | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 360 Registered: 3-2005 |
eb, I had a white female jogger hit my car with her fist when she thought I was in her way while she was jogging off the sidewalk on Wyoming. She also snarled an obscenity. (I also saw her several days later screaming obscenities at her overweight child, who wasn't running fast enough to keep up with her.) I guess if you don't live in my neighborhood you don't know what's going on here -- and that makes sense to me. Why should you? But the fact is that no one in any position of authority has given the public ANY evidence that these proposed ordinances will have ANY impact on drug dealers ANYWHERE in Maplewood. Nor has anyone in authority bothered to describe ANY drug activity ANYWHERE in Maplewood. I don't want to meet for a drink and be told you and your neighbors are the only authorities on the subject. (No disrespect intended.) I expect town officials to make this information public. If there are parts of town the police feel aren't safe, we deserve to know exactly where they are. Right? How can we have a rational discussion of what measures to take without it? If we were talking dangerous intersections and putting up traffic lights, we'd be talking specifics. The TC and the MPD need to start getting specific about where dangerous and unsafe activity is taking place that they think these ordinances are going to end. Without specifics, you can't blame people for saying it all sounds quite dodgy. "Quality of life" is completely cultural and always a subjective call. In Italy, the concept that you might be "loitering" and that would be criminal is laughable. A very big part of life is about hanging out on street corners in Italy. Hanging out IN THE STREET is also a big part of life west of Ridgewood Road in Maplewood -- and don't you think it looks different to some people if it's white people doing it not black people? So don't imagine everybody sees the same thing, even right here in Maplewood. I understand the town recently outlawed feeding ducks. I'm very glad they did, but I'll bet plenty of people are in tears about it and think the "quality of life" in Maplewood has been diminished. I see nothing 'racist' about worrying about criminality in the New Jersey State Police or worrying about racial profiling and false arrest, or bringing up those concerns at a meeting where (a) everybody was invited to speak and (b) laws that look like blunderbuses and dragnets are being proposed. Like you, my perception of the MPD is that it works very hard and very professionally with a lot of awareness of the history of racial tensions and policing, and why there is that tension. But that tension didn't just come out of nowhere. It came from a well-known American history, and it's still hardly racial paradise in New Jersey for African American families. I thought the people who spoke of their concern in this regard at the TC meeting did so thoughtfully. Gordon, The "rumor" you heard Mr. Johnson is not from Maplewood was started by Mr. Johnson, who said it at the TC meeting. He pointed out that his children come into Maplewood every day to go to CHS -- as do many children from South Orange. | ||
| eb1154 Citizen Username: Eb1154 Post Number: 415 Registered: 5-2001 |
Kathleen, Did the the incident with the female jogger upset you? I deal with this kind of stuff everyday. They may not hit my car but they block the road and refuse to move until they are ready. I shouldn't have to deal with this kind of stuff everyday. The Police did state where the crime areas are in town, there was a map outlining where most of the activity takes place. I do agree that if you take a hard stance on the smaller issues such as loitering, jay walking, and such that you will prevent a lot of the bigger crimes. If you keep these groups from hanging out on corners then they can't sell drugs there. Race does play a role in these problems, but please don't stand up there and tell me that these kids are being picked out because of race. They are being picked out because they have done something wrong. I feel that certain people are just playing the race card. I don't want these proposals squashed because people are afraid of the accusations that might follow. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 11099 Registered: 1-2003  |
Matthew Johnson did state he lives in South Orange. The proposed solutions are proposals, so no one is saying the solutions are racist. This is the time to say that a proposal might be racist. I also disagree with Johnson, but he represents the views of some, which is why it was appropriate for Fred to let him speak, along with others with similar views. | ||
| Ken Scout Citizen Username: Lightningken Post Number: 51 Registered: 11-2005 |
Racism. Anyone see 60 minutes last night? It was a story on the rise of the Gang MS-13. They mentioned that the fastest growth in Gangs in the US is coming from Latin American/South American Gangs. I thought it was interesting that most people on this feed who cry "racism" against african-americans, are actually making racist inferences by assuming all gangs are african-american Gangs, when in reality, it's more likely they are not african-american. | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 361 Registered: 3-2005 |
eb, Of course it upset me. And I agree you with you that you shouldn't have to put up with this stuff everyday. At the TC meeting, the police presentation did NOT say where the activity that you are trying to get stopped is occurring. It showed circles where arrests for assaults had taken place. There were more circles in some areas of the map than others, which raises the question of why the response is to pass townwide "quality of life" ordinances instead of to deploy police to unsafe areas. What also needs to be explained is why ordinances that are mostly aimed at controlling the behavior of youths are being proposed when juvenile arrests went DOWN, according to the same police presentation. Are the people who are blocking your street kids? Or drug dealers? Or both? Who can disagree that if you throw everybody in town who jaywalks in jail for six months you can prevent a lot of serious crime? Are you going to arrest everybody jaywalking in Maplewood Village? Around the train station? If not, why not? Ken, No one is worried about South American gangs in Maplewood. And no one is "crying" racism. People are discussing it because many of the same posters who are so excited about these laws are the same posters who make racist comments all the time and because many people do not believe that if new jaywalking laws are passed they will be enforced against white people. | ||
| JerryC Citizen Username: Jerryc Post Number: 183 Registered: 12-2002 |
kathleen, Your unrealistic, myopic bleeding heart amazes me. Come down off the hill, dear. You are whining about a female jogger hitting your car with a fist on Wyoming...and she SNARLED at you..OMG! It must have been SOOOOO SCAREY! When was the last time you had a large group of teenagers dressed like "gangstas" stand right outside your door and yell threatening obscenities at you or your family? Does that happen much up there while you guys are hanging out on Ridgewood? When was the last time you went to a store in THE VILLAGE and found an empty crack vial on the ground in front? When was the last time you had an armed robbery in THE VILLAGE? Seen any people openly urinating on Maplewood Ave recently? Had any unsavory looking characters hit you up for some change in the past few days? I must say, I feel really awful about the white female jogger hitting your car....was it a Volvo wagon, an SUV or a Beemer? Tom, I never implied that Fred should not let Mr. Johnson speak or that he did not have every right to have his opinion heard. However, he had no right to speak beyond the alloted 3 minutes and should have been stopped as were others. The rules apply to all. If I hear one more comment about the ordinances possibly not having a positive effect I think I'll scream. Do you think it will be better to do NOTHING and just wait this problem out??????????? Just a few words: Irvington, Vailsburg, East Orange, Orange. Once wonderful towns, they all waited too long and now live with burned out, boarded up houses, nationally ranked crime rates, gangs, prostituion etc. They are all struggling to win their cities back. If we are so afraid of POSSIBLY offending a group of people, I am afraid that we are destined for the same outcome...maybe not tomorrow but soon. | ||
| LW Citizen Username: Lrw Post Number: 25 Registered: 10-2005 |
JERRYC--You're unrealistic, you continue to go off on people who try to help and understand you. At first, I understood your frustration with people who don't live on your side of town, but now it's out of hand. How dare you minimize a violent incident that happened to another resident, and why, because the perpertrator didn't look like the ones on your side of town?One question, would you feel better if the kids yelling outside of your house were dressed as "preppies"? What's a "gangsta" look like anyway? Because the last time I checked, John Gotti was one, aka the "dapper don". Here's a solution to your problem: MOVE. If your angry that people don't want to be profiled, unfairly targeted, or subjected to harassment, then I don't know if this is the community for you. Because there are too many residents that will assure that this doesn't happen, because it's ILLEGAL and WRONG. I find it extremely hard to believe that this transformation on your street just happened overnight, so perhaps this is a case of reaction, as opposed to Pro Action. But don't lash out on people who live on the "west side", how were they to know what was going on on your block? | ||
| JerryC Citizen Username: Jerryc Post Number: 184 Registered: 12-2002 |
LW: First of all, I don't go off on people who are trying to help me. If you think that kathleen's post was aimed at helpingor understanding me or any of us who have brought this problem to the attention of all of you and the TC, you are mistaken. She was minimizing the issue and comparing her incident to what we have and continue to experience and the comparison is what set me off. She then proceeded to make a statement that no one has indicated that the proposed ordinances will have any impact on fighting crime. How did she come to that conclusion. The mayor worked closely with our PD to come up with the ordinances so they both think they will have an impact. Does kathleen think that the Mayor and the PD are stupid for making the proposals ot that they didn't consider the impact? She also brought up the quality of life isse and said it was subjective. Yes indeed it is but there are certain standards that are acceptable in certain places. In many areas of latin america, it is customary to slaughter chickens and cook them in your fron yard. Guess we should allow that. I think I have been VERY supportive of the people here on MOL who "get it". Your comment about what does a gansta look like shows that you DON'T get it. John Gotti is NOT the kind of gansta we are dealing with and you know that. How did we jump from the proposed ordinances and an effort to stem the crime to an immediate assumption that there will be racial profiling and targeting????? Our Chief of Police supports the ordinances. Guess he must be as big a racist as me! I am not angry that people don't want to be targeted or profiled. I am angry that some are using it as an excuse to behave badly and not take responsibility. As for your suggestion that I move. I won't give you that satisfaction. I only tend to lash out at those on the west side who after hearing about our issues, trivialize them or make statements without knowing the facts. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 11110 Registered: 1-2003 |
I'd like to see beat cops in the problem areas. I'd like to see enforcement of existing laws. I don't think we need new ones. If walking in the street causes a problem, the cops can already give a ticket for that. It's a state law. A township ordinance is redundant. | ||
| Rick B Citizen Username: Ruck1977 Post Number: 925 Registered: 8-2003  |
"Here's a solution to your problem: MOVE. If your angry that people don't want to be profiled, unfairly targeted, or subjected to harassment, then I don't know if this is the community for you." Wow. Feel the love...and don't get overwhelmed! The point is, there is a part of our town that feels threatened and there is a part of town that this threat is not even apparent too. If a person was on the "threatened" side of town, they may be less inclined to worry about "people don't want to be profiled, unfairly targeted, or subjected to harassment". Instead of protecting people who look or act in a manner that would lead others to think they are hoodlems, maybe we should protect our residents who are concerned for their safety and the safety of their families? | ||
| JerryC Citizen Username: Jerryc Post Number: 185 Registered: 12-2002 |
Tom, I agree that beat cops or at very least a greater police presence is the best answer. However, if we can't aford to put more cops out there, we might benefit from both more agressive enforcement of existing laws and enactment of some new ones that close some holes we may have. The cameras in some areas have been proven to suppliment the police presence. | ||
| JerryC Citizen Username: Jerryc Post Number: 186 Registered: 12-2002 |
Thank you ever so much, Rick B. for 'getting it". | ||
| LW Citizen Username: Lrw Post Number: 28 Registered: 10-2005 |
Maybe I"m wrong, but I thought that the MPD Chief initiated the meeting by stating that it would disproportionately affect Blacks. So we should target everyone who looks like your "hoodlems"? And what about on Kathleen's side of town, do the same there? Increase police presence on your street, and do you all have a block association, or any type of organization? RickB--Living on the "threatened" side of town doesn't cause a person to lose all their senses, and act irrational, not a stable person, at least. | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 363 Registered: 3-2005 |
JerryC, You are the first person to say in any forum that "the cameras in some areas have been proven to supplement the police presence." Where does this information come from? I am NOT saying it doesn't exist. I'm asking where can I find it? Where did you find it? I want to look at the proof too. I have repeatedly posted here what Tom just posted: I am in favor of putting beat cops in areas where residents need greater protection. Is the reason you can't hear me saying that repeatedly is because I live on the "west side"? And look, if you like surveillance cameras, let's go to the videotape here on MOL: My post was a response to eb, who asked "Are the joggers on Wyoming Ave. blocking traffic and do they refuse to move out of your way when they realize they are blocking traffic? Do they throw you the finger or threaten you when you beep?" My post describing the jogger on Wyoming who hit my car was so un-whiney that Eb replied to me by posting: "Did the the incident with the female jogger upset you? I deal with this kind of stuff everyday. They may not hit my car but they block the road and refuse to move until they are ready. I shouldn't have to deal with this kind of stuff everyday." To which I replied: "You shouldn't have to deal with it." Now you come in and start screaming the "comparison" set you off -- and blame the comparing on ME, not eb! Who is not listening or paying attention here? I did NOT say that none of the proposed ordinances will have any impact on fighting crime. I said that no responsible official has explained how these proposed ordinances will have any impact on the kind of activity eb described or the police describe with their charts. Furthermore, no one has explained what any of this has anything to do with Bloods, and yet the meeting was called as a response to Bloods and a state anti-gang official was brought in to speak. I expect the Chief of Police and the Mayor to explain their thinking when they propose putting cameras in Maplewood Village as a response to the Bloods. Or when they propose outlawing walking more than two abreast in the street in areas where there are unsafe sidewalks as a response to the Bloods. I also expect them to explain how they intend to make sure that these laws do not unfairly impact black residents of the community after the Mayor announces he knows already that passage of said laws are going to have greater impact on black residents of Maplewood. It's a statement that needs an explanation. The Mayor said that this is only the beginning of what he described as a "very long discussion." I assume that in the coming weeks the public will be provided with more information about what activities the Bloods are involved with in Maplewood that can be eliminated by these ordinances -- and whether or not this is the same activity that eb has complained about here. In the meantime, you might explain what you mean by saying that if we can't afford more beat cops, we can nonetheless afford more aggressive enforcement of laws. That will take more police resources to do. Cameras can't arrest people. And they aren't free. If we are going to spend money on cameras, having cops watch them, and having cops make arrests based on the tapes, is it unreasonable to ask: "Why aren't we spending that money on beat cops instead?" If Wyoming Ave. had the kinds of problems being described as occurring in other parts of town, especially if it was presented as an incursion of Bloods, people up here would not ask for cameras. They'd demand a police presence. | ||
| JerryC Citizen Username: Jerryc Post Number: 187 Registered: 12-2002 |
kathleen, thanks for the clarification. I may indeed have missed the point about the jogger. sorry. My business is electronic security. I do a LOT of work with video survelliance as well as other security systems. I attend conferences and I lecture on the subject. I spent a lot of time in Asia and Europe where cameras are used extensively and successfully to combat and deter crime. | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 1470 Registered: 5-2001 |
Kathleen, I too, live West of Ridgewood. I strongly disagree with this statement:
??? I walk up and down these streets every day, and I have yet to see kids walking anywhere but the sidewalk. Kids and adults scoot across the street, but they don't walk in the street. Even on this icy Monday morning, I didn't see anyone skirting the sidewalks and walking in the (mostly) clear streets. People do jog on Wyoming, but behind the solid line, not in the road. | ||
| Rick B Citizen Username: Ruck1977 Post Number: 926 Registered: 8-2003 |
"The point is, there is a part of our town that feels threatened and there is a part of town that this threat is not even apparent too. If a person was on the "threatened" side of town, they may be less inclined to worry about "people don't want to be profiled, unfairly targeted, or subjected to harassment"." I simply said, a person may be less inclined to worry. Not sure where the "lose all their senses, and act irrational" came in. I am not in the position of some of the people who live in these areas, but I can certainly imagine what it might be like. A petty stupid crime was committed in my driveway one night. The person who committed this crime was trying to steal our car. Fortunately for us, they did not steal our car, but did just enough damage to our car trying to steal it, that it ended up costing a pretty penny to fix it. That week, I definitely acted a bit irrationally (loading BB Gun, setting inane little traps, contantly patrolling back yard) and I didn't even feel threatened, I just wanted to protect my property. So, its hard to say how a a person who walks out of their home and feels threatened is going to act. I personally don't think more ordinances are necessarily going to do anything and that the existing laws need to be enforced. I also think awareness is important. Passive observance is not going to get us anywhere. Active reporting of suspicious activity will send a message. Its great to be sensitive to the types of issues that have been raised, but we should be cautious about who we are empowering by doing so. People do have choices about how they are going to act, and what type of clothes they are going to wear. People are aware of the types of perceptions there are about the clothes they decide to wear. If I dress to impress in a suit or tie, someone is going to make an assumption about how I am dressed. If I dress to intimidate, same thing goes. | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 364 Registered: 3-2005 |
I didn't say "kids." On Durand Road neighbors frequently stop their cars in the middle of the road to talk to neighbors who are walking up the street. Two of the most recent offenders were myself and Ellen Davenport, but it is a common occurrence on Durand every day among many neighbors. (I confess outright I am one of the worst offenders, or instigators of the offense, because I walk a lot and many people driving by stop to stay hello). It is also the case that sometimes two vehicles will stop so the drivers can chat and catch up. Also, because we have only one sidewalk on Durand, people often cross from the sidewalk into the street and stand in the street while they talk about the usual neighborhood stuff. It's just too long a distance to shout. Yesterday, I and everyone else who was walking on Durand walked in the street, not on the sidewalks because of the snow, but even on sunny days earlier this week there were women walking right up the middle of the road. The one sidewalk is very narrow, and two people walking (especially walking for exercise) can't do it comfortably. I once sprained my ankle walking with my husband on Durand because my heel got caught between the edge of the grass and the pavement. At the TC meeting, a woman spoke about moving to Maplewood with her son because she enjoyed being able to talk to neighbors, and said she sometimes was in the street when she did it. The same happens up here. | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 365 Registered: 3-2005 |
RickB, You can't arrest people for the way they dress in this country. I'm sorry if you think that empowers the wrong people, but most of us don't want to give the cops power to arrest for clothing violations. As I posted before, the police went way out of their way to say that they do not arrest people on the basis of their appearance, but on their behavior. The point was also made that we live in a culture where kids of all colors are encouraged by entertainers and clothing ads to emulate gang-type symbolism and -- I quote -- "75 percent of them don't know what they're emulating." That was what the state gang official said. We have a cultural phenonmenon he described as a "fad," and I sincerely doubt the police will join you in enforcing anti-fad ordinances. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 3830 Registered: 12-2001  |
Like it or not, no law can precisely define the type of hanging out that is a precursor to criminal activity. So, the police will have to make judgement calls. And the only way they can fine tune their judgement is to work with block associations and the CCR. | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 366 Registered: 3-2005 |
Thanks Jerry C. If you have literature on the cameras from here or other countries, I'm sure everyone would lke to see it if you can provide links. |
