| Author | Message | ||
     Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 11299 Registered: 1-2003  |
I abhor and oppose Republican policies. Is that enough thinking on my own for you? I believe it's possible for a Republican to contribute to our community. Do you believe it is categorically impossible? The fact that I can have these views seems to be adequately independent thinking. In other words, I lean to the left yet I believe right wingers have the potential to be useful; I believe we can come together on some issues. If you don't, then it's an example of black and white thinking. | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 403 Registered: 3-2005 |
Tom, Do the Republican and rightwing policies you abhor and oppose include sensationalizing "threats?" It is sensationalism to start flinging about policy prescriptions for Maplewood as if the town has a gang problem in the commonly understood sense of what a gang problem would be. It is a genuine disservice to everyone in this community to hype a gang threat. Not every Republican in town is hyping a gang threat -- and my recollection is that Bart Albini thought cameras were a waste of time and money, a false promise to neighborhoods that actually need some real town assistance. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 11305 Registered: 1-2003 |
I'll start answering your questions after you're done answering mine. If you read what I've written so far, you would know my answers to your questions. My questions to you are not merely rhetorical. They will help us communicate. At least I believe they will. | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5275 Registered: 12-2001  |
Kathleen your post was vindictive and not in any way helpful. Whatever you issues with Marie deal with them. Just not here. Marie as Tom put it quite well, posted some useful information. You have too. The post I refered to being mostly an exception. And clearly you are out of the loop when it comes to the usage of bitchy. It can apply to men just as well as women. | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 1496 Registered: 5-2001 |
Kathleen's rants are so inaccurate and angry it's impossible to respond to them. It's frustrating when she makes unfounded attacks. As one who has been on the end of her crazy-stick, it's upsetting . I was going to say Kathleen posts falsehoods, but she out and out lies. Kathleen, Your attacks on people because they belong to the Republican party border on bigotry. There are Republicans and Democrats who are good-hearted, and there are others. Marie is a woman who cares about Maplewood - I've disagreed with Marie on many issues, but I respect her right to say her piece. Marie has moxie and bravery and says it like it is. Kathleen? You're cowardly. You attack again and again but when push comes to shove you don't have the fortitude to actually talk to Marie, or me, or whomever your enemy de jour is. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 4553 Registered: 9-2001  |
Kathleen, you remind me of the story about the guy at a bar who sits down next to a beautiful woman and asks her if she would like to go to bed with him. Well, she immediately hauled off and smacked him off the barstool. After he picked himself off the floor, he sat down besides her again and said, I'm sorry about that Miss, but how about you just given me a little feel instead? Kathleen, we don’t find ourselves at the butt end of mockery and insults… Maybe you don't understand that you can't always smack everyone in the face and expect them to just go away. As examples with Marie and I, us Republicans have a strong will to succeed in whatever we set out to do... So Kathleen my dear, how about a little feel?  | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 404 Registered: 3-2005 |
Duncan and Tom, Do you even know when you are being insulted? Marie posted above that "this community" -- meaning you -- doesn't really want to hear about alleged gang activity at the Tennis Club or across the street from her skateboard store. Really? Several hundred Maplewoodians turned out two weeks ago on a Tuesday night to learn as much as they could about just such things. I've asked her directly to tell us about the "ice cream cone" incident and, while I'm at it, the situation across the street from her store. I'd very much like to know. Wouldn't you two? Don't you think the scatterbrains who come onto MOL and trash the liberal community that lives here (or move to Maplewood and sue the community) should be confronted in public? Have their politics and illogic exposed? I deal with Marie here because this is where she publicly misrepresents Maplewood and distorts gang issues. What "information" that she puts up do you two find useful for Maplewood? (I thought I did answer your questions, Tom. Which ones did you think I missed?) | ||
| Jonathan Teixeira Citizen Username: Jhntxr Post Number: 264 Registered: 10-2005 |
Marie , to answer your question . Yes , I am for metal detectors and cameras , in CHS and MMS . Not in the elementary schools . And Marie did post a very lenghty , but very correct account of how gangs operate . I did not find her post 'sensational' at all . You , on the other hand are coming across like a left wing fanatic . | ||
| aquaman Supporter Username: Aquaman Post Number: 617 Registered: 8-2001 |
Prediction. Any TC Democrat that votes for surveillance cameras in Maplewood will be summarily voted out of office. Any Democrat. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 11308 Registered: 1-2003 |
Kathleen, I think I'll save my breath this time around, or my fingers, as the case may be. And aquaman's prediction, if it turns true, will render all this discussion quite moot. Thanks, aquaman. | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 4886 Registered: 10-1999  |
Looks like there are two camps in this discussion. On the one hand, some seem to be implying that the police are downplaying the situation. They want to see school metal detectors and more crimes classified as "gang related". On the other hand, some seem to be implying that the police are overstating the situation. They have a negative reaction to considering measures such as cameras. Interestingly enough, both sides seem to be distrusting of our local officials. Is it possible to just listen to what our law enforcement officials are saying, and to consider what reasonable responses they may be suggesting? | ||
| Lester Jacobs Citizen Username: Lester Post Number: 43 Registered: 10-2005 |
Kathleen: It is freaky liberals like you who are running normal people out of town. Most people who live here just want a nice place for their family to live that is commutable to NYC and could care less about politics. Anytime anyone tries to improve the quality of life here they are jumped on as being a right wing extremist. (i.e. trying to do something about gangs, trying to do something for the kids to enjoy Christmas). My wife and I can't wait to move out of here so we don't have to raise our little boy in such a bad environment. A lot of the friends we have made here feel the same way, and I can think of 5 young families who moved here in the past few years that are packing up and moving west because they can't take overlly liberal attitudes. I hope that once Maplewood becomes the next Irvington in a few years that you and the rest of the Howard Dean crowd will be happy with your accomplishment. What this town needs is for people like you to get the out of the way and let the police and our elected officials do their job to get rid of gangs, get all these illegal black kids out of our schools, get Christmas music back into the schools, and start a serious dialogue about leaving Essex county and joining Millburn in moving to Morris county . | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 4887 Registered: 10-1999 |
Lester - Sorry you feel that way about the town. We've been really happy raising our kids here. | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 1497 Registered: 5-2001 |
Nohero
Yes. I've been thinking about this thread a lot on and off-line. Going through the underpass between the train and the village - a spot that gets tagged and tagged again - cameras would make sense. On one hand it would catch the people who keep ruining the murals, and another, cameras would help make a remote spot seem a little less isolated. Even in the late morning walking through the tunnel can feel a bit dicey - I'd like another set of "eyes" on the beat. If cameras make a difference in the village I'm all for them, I'm just not sure the need is there. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 4555 Registered: 9-2001 |
"Any TC Democrat that votes for surveillance cameras in Maplewood will be summarily voted out of office." Well, seeing that our Township Committee are all Democrats, the Independents, Republicans, and even some of the more moderate Democrats really have little to no say in what goes on in our town. It’s a sad state of affairs. To listen to Aquaman’s prediction, it’s their way or the highway… I'm sure there are many residents like Lester and some of his friends and neighbors who are getting the message loud and clear, and it ain't pretty. Maplewood has become Howard Dean country, much to far to the left. I’ll make a prediction of my own. If our town doesn’t move more to the middle soon, the shine is coming off the apple… IMHO, Maplewood needs to go to a non-partisan form of government to give residents who feel disenfranchised a stronger sense of belonging. Mixing local politics with national political issues is really getting old. | ||
| Montagnard Citizen Username: Montagnard Post Number: 1840 Registered: 6-2003  |
Our TC members swore an oath to protect and defend the constitution. This means opposing the •••• that's currently in the White House and his flunkies here in Maplewood. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 4558 Registered: 9-2001 |
"Our TC members swore an oath to protect and defend the constitution. This means opposing the •••• that's currently in the White House and his flunkies here in Maplewood." Really? "Our TC members swore an oath to protect and defend the constitution." His flunkies here in Maplewood? You made my point... The TC needs to work on local issues, NOT do the work of the United States Congress!!!! IMHO, Maplewood needs to go to a non-partisan form of government to give residents who feel disenfranchised a stronger sense of belonging. Mixing local politics with national political issues is really getting old. | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5279 Registered: 12-2001 |
AJC you are absolutely right on this one. There should be wide open, non affiliated elections for TC in Maplewood. There is too much partisan BS for this level of gov't. We have our own issues to contend with and I don't really get impressed seeing John Corzine in Maplewood (for anything else than a cuppa from his daughter). AMEN And Kathleen, yes I know when I am insulted, and I am insulted by your post. I am not so impressionable as to assume that every "We" when used to describe the populace of Maplewood applies to ME. Thankfully I can see a bigger picture, with differing, but no less compelling arguements. It must be much easier to see no gray. Thats why I dye my hair before auditions... | ||
| Jonathan Teixeira Citizen Username: Jhntxr Post Number: 267 Registered: 10-2005 |
Lester , you hit it on the head !!! Most young families who moved here ,were just looking for a safe place to raise their children , not political at all , myself included . But when you are bombarded with this stuff every day , it makes you want to pack up and leave. I mean I have heard parents in my kids school yard talking openly about our president and what a ' fool ' he is ! This is elementary school ! | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 11312 Registered: 1-2003 |
What bombardment occurs? Does it happen in the street? At the schools? On the train? We have a lot of discussion here on MOL, but participation here is voluntary. No one has pushed his/her political views on me here, and I haven't done it to anyone, either. | ||
| Ken Scout Citizen Username: Lightningken Post Number: 83 Registered: 11-2005 |
On the over politication of this town, my own opinion is that Liberal voters are taking out their frustrations with Federal Govt., via Local politics (ie The TC motion against the Iraq War, which is meaningless on a local level). I'm sure that Conservatives in conservative towns do the samething when Liberals are calling the shots in DC. Unfortunately, I don't see it changing here until a Liberal Democrat gets re-elected. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 4560 Registered: 9-2001 |
"What bombardment occurs? Does it happen in the street? It sure does!!! Come on Tom, you don't expect anyone to believe that, or do you? The bombardment occurs everywhere in town. 1. Lets begin on the street in front of Kings, the bank, the post office, and on a regular basis, not just the peace signs and literature, but on car bumpers, kids walking with sign and buttons, and lets not forget about the "BE ABOUT PEACE" signs on what seems to be on the lawn of every other house in town for the past several years. 2. At the schools? Right! The kids in our schools and on the streets are becoming a reflection of their parents. Signs, protests, in the parades, on the streets, and even on Channel 35 all weekend long, which is coming from the school program... 3. Trains? Yes, conversation and debate on, off, before, after, on top, and even under the train with the rest of the crap... 4. As for all the discussion here on MOL, yes there's voluntary participation here if you consider the personal attacks and hate posts on here, and dispersed in other threads from time to time by the same posters in this section. 5. Finally, "No one has pushed his/her political views on me here, and I haven't done it to anyone, either." Pleeeeeeeese Tom, with 11,312 posts, you as much as anyone has made your feelings clear on everything from pancakes to political poles.... FWIW, Duncan, as usual is fair and balanced when he said, "There should be wide open, non affiliated elections for TC in Maplewood." Will anyone take a stand for political diversity, or is it all the diversity about just race? Trust me when I say, political freedoms are as, if not more important than racial ones... What are some of you so afraid of anyway? Is it that you might lose one more way to bash and bombard us with you partisan bull*hit every 5 seconds? Give it up Tom... try to "BE ABOUT FREEDOM", freedom from the bombardment of all the Left wing brainwashing going on in our community! It’s really getting old! | ||
| Garcia Citizen Username: Photojournalist Post Number: 8 Registered: 3-2005 |
is having a "be about peace" sign really a bombardment of left-wing politics to people on the right? are kids in this town not enjoying christmas? well, then, it must be the lefties! and finally to lester and jonathan, i say, don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you... | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 11313 Registered: 1-2003 |
OK, if you call exposure to people exercising one's right to free speech bombardment, then yes, you get bombarded. If that threatens you, I can't help you. I'd prefer if people spoke their minds than shut up. I believe that's what America is about. I don't condone personal attacks. I see people on all sides doing it. It isn't pretty, and it isn't called for. I don't think voicing opinions is the same as pushing them. To me, pushing them is telling the other person that there is no choice but to agree. You are free to disagree with me on anything. I happen to like your pancakes and Kevin's recipe, too. Brainwashing is a strong word. Are you that vulnerable? Furthermore, you spend a lot of energy talking about what a great town this is. I agree, and I believe you are sincere when you say that. How do you fit this brainwashing into that picture of this great town? | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 405 Registered: 3-2005 |
Why is it a "personal attack" to hold Republicans accountable for what they've done and what they do? Why is it that the biggest demanders of "accoountability" for schoolchildren are exempted from having any answers demanded of them? I'm sure they would like 'non-partisan' elections, so no one would examine their core philosophy and its consequences. They want to cut funding to education -- right here in Maplewood, let alone to the inner city schools that border our town. They want to increase police surveillance of everybody and crackdowns on non-violent offenders. They oppose gun control and back candidates in the pocket of the NRA. They spend their money dragging the town and schools to court to stop every kind of policy that would bring about greater fairness and equity in the community. And does it get any nuttier to advocate putting up cameras where we've let the kids paint all over the walls to stop the kids from painting on the walls? Sorry you felt offended, Duncan, but I don't think it is my imagination that Marie thinks you are part of the community that doesn't want to hear the details about the gang shooting across the street from her store or the gangs at the Tennis Club. Nohero, I think you're oversimplifying the nature of the discussion, especially since there are several different discussions going on. There is the one going on here on MOL which is, quite frankly, of no real consequence, and then there is the political conflict in the town which long pre-dates this month about whether the police or the schools should have the priority when it comes to taxes and addressing youth problems. For quite some time now, the Profeta majority on the TC has been favoring the police, and I think people also have to ask how well the town and the children are being served by this. We just went through an entire election where the incumbent Mayor ran on a platform touting his achievements in public safety -- and less than two weeks after the election we are suddenly told we have a public emergency that requires draconian sentences and surveillance cameras. In the prior election, David Huemer said outright that the police had identified 7 people living in Maplewood with gang connections, and he advocated beefing up youth programs, and dedicating the old police station on Dunnell as a youth center. I didn't see anyone else on the TC offer help to make these things happen, as far as I can tell, and I keep hearing Fred rejecting the idea of dedicating the unusued Dunnell building to becoming the public's youth center. In fairness to Fred, I think he actually does know that policing is not the answer to Maplewood's at-risk youth. And I think he is capable of shifting to start leading with the foot that puts the emphasis on education. But without community policing -- not cameras, community policing -- some neighborhoods in Maplewood are going to continue to experience wrenching problems while the rest of the town polishes its jewels. Community policing costs money, but it's the only fair and effective thing to do. | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 406 Registered: 3-2005 |
The Washington Post ran an insightful article that offers clarity to the local issues: A Good School Is Best Weapon Against Gangs By Marc Fisher Tuesday, November 15, 2005; B01 Now there's a cop in every high school in Montgomery County, 120 police officers assigned to the District's 17 high schools and mandatory lessons about the evils of gangs for every Fairfax middle-schooler. This week, Congress is pumping millions more into the local fight against gangs, and police and prosecutors are using the extra cash to attack Latino gangs as if they were organized conspiracies such as the Mafia. All of which is fine if you're running for office or making a movie. But let's be real -- this isn't likely to turn any kid away from joining MS-13, Vatos Locos or any other local groups. When machetes fly and teenagers rampage at a high school or a suburban mall, we are guaranteed a slew of initiatives, each with some merit. But this is not Los Angeles. We have no Bloods and Crips here. There is next to no coordination among Maryland, Virginia and D.C. gangs. Our situation is scary because the rise of the gangs seems so relatively quick. But the vast majority of the kids in Washington area gangs don't fit the movie cliche of gangbangers, and there lies an opportunity. My own assumptions about the teenagers in local gangs started cracking apart when I served on a jury in D.C. Superior Court this year. For three weeks, we heard from gang members, hangers-on and people who live in gang-ridden neighborhoods. The guy we convicted, Dimas Villatoro, was sentenced to 25 years in prison for planning and taking part in the shooting of two members of a rival gang in an alley behind the Popeyes on Columbia Road NW in Adams Morgan. These guys were dangerous. They acted out their adolescent fantasies of violence and revenge with total contempt for those around them. They scared adults; one witness, the father of a gang member, could not bring himself to speak until he shifted his chair so he wouldn't catch even a glimpse of Villatoro's piercing stare. Another witness, a high school student who hung out with the gang boys, checked for Villatoro's nod of permission before answering each question. The trial was a window on a world of teens who live a virtually adult-free existence. These kids spend endless hours at midday skip parties, drinking and getting high, or at the neighborhood park playing soccer. Neither parents nor school authorities seem to have any idea where these teens are. They're on their own, making their own lives. "This is a different situation from L.A., where they live the gang life every day," says Sgt. Juan Aguilar, who heads the D.C. police Gang Intervention Partnership unit. "What we're dealing with here is kids who hold jobs, go to church, have families." Quite a few gang members work, and not in minimum-wage cleaning jobs, but as managers of restaurants and retail shops. Yet not a single teen we heard in court seemed involved in school activities that might compete with the lure of a gang -- arts, sports, service. School was irrelevant. The gang was their extracurricular activity. Gang members here are far less likely than out West to be assigned to prove their manhood by committing violent acts. "Mainly," Aguilar says, "what they're assigned to do is the taggings," the gang-specific graffiti found on school and playground walls. Just as 1980s crack dealers attracted middle-class teens to the drug trade, Latino gangs find it easy to recruit in the suburban neighborhoods that immigrant parents work two jobs to afford. Sadly, in too many cases, parents' efforts to build a better life for their children backfire. The fact that Mom and Dad are away day and night working extra shifts contributes mightily to the gangs' attraction as a street family. A spurt in gang violence has put more cops in the schools, but public dollars would be better spent to involve more parents in their children's schooling and envelop immigrant kids in school-based activities. There's nothing magical about the solution: Look at San Miguel Middle School in Mount Pleasant, an all-Latino Catholic school that steers its students clear of gangs with long days, weekend and summer sessions, English and parenting classes for moms and dads, and teacher conferences at the parents' convenience. School becomes even more all-consuming than a gang. Kids want to belong to something; kids who have nothing to belong to are easy prey. [The politicians who should be voted out of office are the politicians agitating to cut the school budget.] | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5287 Registered: 12-2001 |
Again Kathleen you are wrong. But that is seemingly a regular occurance of late. I do care about the shooting across from her place, and the incident at the tennis club and even the murder of a woman in her own home on, I believe it was Richmond, a few years back. And you say it should matter what a core philosophy is at the TC level. To some degree that is true. It has NOTHING WHAT SO EVER to do with how neighboring towns handle their affairs. Why you assume a republican would gut the schools is beyond me. Any more than a democrat. I want a level playing field for local candidates and as the system stands right now, even a moderate republican oh say a fiscally conservative, socially liberal republican (and there are some of those out there believe it or not) doesn't stand a chance in this town because the national/state parties are involved. And the democrats have more money in NJ and the Republicans don't spend any money in a TC election in a predominately Dem town. As to your second post. Some excellent stuff in there. And not too far off what was in Marie's post. I cannot speak for the town, nor would I be so presumptious as to speak for you, when I say that I have a great deal of interest in ways to nip the gang problem in town. I don't care if a republican comes up with the idea any more than if a democrat does. I just want to see it happen. | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 407 Registered: 3-2005 |
Oh -- and here's a thought: Instead of whining endlessly about grafitti and calling for police crackdowns and surveillance cameras against everybody, how about a clean-up team on MOL that asks for the removal of every scribble on here that stereotypes kids, stereotypes working parents, trashes the town and snarls against equal opportunity in public school education for all of New Jersey's kids? Why not identify the anti-social scribblings here for what they really are: anti-community grafitti in a very public place and a guarantee of more gang-related activity in town? | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 408 Registered: 3-2005 |
Duncan, I believe you and sorry to have gotten you wrong on the details. I would have thought anybody interested in potential gang problems would want the details about assessing the import of what is being described by marie as gang-related incidents in town -- but hey, I forgot: This is MOL. As for "my assumption" Republicans are trying to gut public education, I think it's fairly well documented at this point. Maybe others can explain. I've posted quite often on why I think non-partisan elections would be the wrong move for Maplewood, and I won't bother to take up space doing it again here. When it comes to gangs, a Republican is about 95 percent more likely to come up with an idea that favors harsher treatment of juvenile offenders and money spent on policing at the expense of schools than a Democrat is. That "cure" is going to continue to exacerbate the disease and spread it exponentially. If you can name me a Republican, locally or in the state, who is on the record for spending what it takes to make Essex county schools and recreation programs actually work for kids, I'd be interested. Seriously. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 4563 Registered: 9-2001 |
“OK, if you call exposure to people exercising one's right to free speech bombardment, then yes, you get bombarded." Thank you Tom, that’s exactly what it is, plus overbearing, often rude, and relentless! Not by everyone, and not always one-sided either. Listen, I don’t have to point to anyone, because everyone knows what and whom I speak of. This stuff doesn’t threaten me, and I don’t mind when people speak their minds. But, it’s much more than that. It’s in your face, it’s pushing, and if anyone was honest about it, the Democrats have literally infiltrated every part of our community. Don’t misunderstand or try to spin what I’m saying. But just look around and pay attention to what’s happening. The Township Committee has been and most likely will continue to be all democrats for years to come. Look at most of the committee’s, especially the key ones, and who sits on them, Democrats. Brainwashing is a strong word, and it takes all the energy I can muster to stand in the face of the anger and political mockery aimed at Republicans at all levels of government in this community, our state, and mostly our country. It’s depressing as hell. I thank God for talk radio, and FOX NEWS. Fortunately, I am not vulnerable, however, there are many around town I’ve spoken with who are intimidated to speak their minds. That’s especially true here on MOL… FWIW, the only option I feel I have is to get involved in all aspects of day-to-day community life. That means everything from MOL to the civic association, the CBAC, the Chamber, the Rotary, the CCR, the Township Committee meetings, the political action groups, the neighborhood associations, the schools, the churches, and different charities and support groups to numerous to mention... Listen, I support the premise of “BE ABOUT PEACE”, but how about being about a little more than that? "When it comes to gangs, a Republican is about 95 percent more likely to come up with an idea that favors harsher treatment of juvenile offenders and money spent on policing at the expense of schools than a Democrat is." ..... and, "If you can name me a Republican, locally or in the state, who is on the record for spending what it takes to make Essex county schools and recreation programs actually work for kids, I'd be interested. Seriously." Katheen, seeing as how you didn't take me up on my last offer, and because you have had more to say about his than anyone else, and because I fall into the 5% group you speak of, would you be willing to work on my committee to reach out to students and parents as spelled out earlier in these threads? | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 411 Registered: 3-2005 |
Art, I wouldn't be part of any committee you formed about anything simply because of your behavior on MOL, for which you refuse to take any responsibility. I don't think it sets any good example for kids, either, if you're concerned. {Just out of curiousity, will this committee also be trying to close the Hilton Library to sell the land to developers?) | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 758 Registered: 7-2003 |
Kathleen, you must really miss the old Soviet Union. You know, Castro and Kim Jong-Il are still in business. You may want to consider a move to Cuba or North Korea. They would love you over there. Are there any other intolerant, military dictatorships out there? How about a nice theocracy? I think Iran is still in business. | ||
| gj1 Citizen Username: Gj1 Post Number: 263 Registered: 11-2003 |
Settle down. I thought the discussion at hand was about the special meeting and the merits, or lack thereof, of the ordinance and camera proposals. It seems to have degenerated into a bunch of personal/political BS and turned to off topic discussions of partison/non-partison elections. I guess that's nothing new. Art, I wasn't so sure your proposal itself wasn't a "goof". However, I think community action is exactly what is needed, not ill-concieved ordinances or public surveillance. | ||
| maplewood fan Citizen Username: Mplwfan Post Number: 247 Registered: 4-2003  |
Liberals have so few places to escape the dominance of the conservatives, why can't we have one place to live without having to deal with right wing rhetoric? Isn't almost all of America right wing now - president, congress, supreme court, and almost every governorship? I think it's time for the conservative republicans to seriously consider moving from Maplewood. You sound so unhappy here. Maybe one acre in Western New Jersey would work better for you. No people of color, no ethnic restaurants, no dissension on radical right wing community governance experiments and lots of fundamentalist churches. While I honestly wish you would stay and work with the progressives in this town - I don't get a sense that this is possible because correct me if I'm wrong, it would require compromise and honesty. It would also require a respect for individuals who do not look or live like you do. It would require a committment to COMMUNITY. If you don't think you could be this kind of Maplewood citizen, maybe you should move and be happy. Interesting read: http://www.robertreich.org/reich/20040927.asp | ||
| Lester Jacobs Citizen Username: Lester Post Number: 44 Registered: 10-2005 |
Bombardment?? Just try getting a bagel and coffee on a Saturday morning during the primary election season at the Bagel Chateau without being harassed. During the campaign season the mayor and his opponent (I think his name was Deluca) came to our door twice and woke up our baby from his nap. What about that freak on Park Rd. with the permanent anti-Bush lawn sign in his front yard. What about those lesbians on Plymouth with their "Save Douglas College" sign up. What about the tasteless politically charged Halloween decorations on Prospect. What about the anti-Bush F-g-flag on Prospect. Is it even legal to have these lawn signs up? | ||
| Garcia Citizen Username: Photojournalist Post Number: 13 Registered: 3-2005 |
it's all just too much,isn't it? please pay us a visit when you feel like 'slumming.'we'll miss you. bye, lester. | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 4236 Registered: 5-2001  |
Wow, you'd think that we could at least elect someone to the TC who had xray vision. Jacobs, is there a beautiful FOR SALE sign in your yard yet? | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 11328 Registered: 1-2003 |
Lester, what does it mean to you that lesbians have a "Save Douglas College" sign on their lawn? What does it mean that you need to mention their sexual orientation? Do you care that one of them reads MOL? Do you care that they're very nice folks? Wow! | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 412 Registered: 3-2005 |
Chris, I think you're the one. not me, with a lot of trouble accepting the results in a democracy. And I seriously doubt that the history of Art'sMOL posts doesn't give a lot of people pause about the thought of him as a youth organizer. maplewood fan,  Personally, I don't care if what few Republicans are here move or stay, but let's all face it: Most people don't move to Maplewood without knowing its politics or thinking about them. They make a conscience choice to live in a community with a national reputation for supporting integration and same-sex marriage. They move here because they are determined not to live in a white flight suburb and they want secular schools. They are making a political choice not to live surrounded by people who endorse the values promoted by the present leadership of the Republican Party. They are here because they worry about schools and town governments in other places that don't fight to defend liberal values. gj1, I don't know what bothers you about a political discussion of this or asking people to take some responsibility for the history of policies they've tried to impose on the rest of us. You know, if George Bush had unveiled after the election a plan to install surveillance cameras in every small town in America, including Maplewood, I can't help but think that not only the voting majority in Maplewood but the majority on MOL would have objected vociferously, even if the police thought it was a nifty Christmas present. Surveillance cameras would profoundly change the nature of policing in Maplewood, and it deserved a full political discussion. It's up to the citizens here to decide what kind of town they want to live in and demand some accountability in making this discussion possible now. (Nohero, thinking back on your characterization of the discussion, I think you mischaracterize the position of many people opposed to surveillance cameras, which is not that they think the police are overstating anything, but rather that there is no objective evidence to indicate surveillance cameras would do better at solving the kinds of problems we want solved, whereas there is lots of evidence community policing will and that surveillance cameras are counterproductive.) Yes, Lester, it is legal to have these anti-Bush and pro-lesbian rights signs up. Where can I get more? | ||
| Parkbench87 Citizen Username: Parkbench87 Post Number: 3103 Registered: 7-2001  |
Lester, You have some serious ISSUES. And I'm not talking about back issues of National Geographic either. |
