| Author | Message | ||
     Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 1541 Registered: 8-2003  |
Now I know why MTD commuters look at me funny when I get up early!  [I am a former full-time Hoboken commuter, now commuting 50% of the time through NYP] | ||
| Zoesky1 Citizen Username: Zoesky1 Post Number: 1294 Registered: 6-2003  |
I don't know, BobK...i am a MTD person, and I always get up early. But maybe I'm just impatient. Still, on my regular train home in the evening -- the 5:20 -- I have not noticed people NOT getting up early. Many of us get up as we pull out of SO; I usually do it no later than when we cross the Parker St trestle. I am most often in an aisle seat so it's easy. | ||
| mrmaplewood Citizen Username: Mrmaplewood Post Number: 277 Registered: 5-2001 |
What is it with people who have a compulsion to stand in the aisles of a moving train? It doesn't make the train move faster. And you occasionally inconvenience me to let you exit from the seat before I really want to stand. The 10 seconds you believe you are saving is not worth it. Why do I feel this way? Years ago I was riding one of the old Edison trains pulling into Broad St. station. My station was to be Hoboken, so I was seated. Without warning the people who were standing in the aisles were thrown onto the floor of the train and some were injured when the train struck another train already in the station. And so, unlike Zoesky, I do not get up until the train has stopped moving. I constantly ask myself "How smart are those people?" But then, they do not have the advantage of having been in a train accident as I have. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10020 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hey, some of us like to live dangerously!!  It speeds up the time it takes for a train to make a stop. The average on a Hoboken train is maybe 30 seconds. On an MTD train it is probably closer to two minutes. It adds up. No wonder so many MTD trains are late. LOL | ||
| chiquita Citizen Username: Chiquita Post Number: 59 Registered: 5-2001 |
I always wondered the same thing--I didn't see the point in getting up before the train stopped moving. (Have to admit being a Hoboken commuter too.) Then a friend told me she tries to be one of the first people off the NYC train because on several occasions she missed the jitney by seconds, which made her late in picking up the kids from the sitter, then late for dinner, then late for piano or soccer or whatever--it was a whole domino effect thing. The whole juggling act of being a working parent and trying to allow your kids to participate in some activities gets way too stressful!! | ||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 1131 Registered: 10-2002  |
I find the best time to get up out of your seat if you're getting off at Maplewood is after the overhead light goes off and comes back on again -- this occurs between S.O. and Maplewood... | ||
| Alberto Citizen Username: Buckwheat Post Number: 22 Registered: 12-2005 |
I can recall the desperate challenges of finding a seat on the NY bound morning express train. In 1997, I moved my firm to Summit. Now, its a 10 minute train ride with 50% of the seats open. Consider it- quality of life is what matters. | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 1120 Registered: 3-2004 |
One of the reasons we're leaving the NY metro area for the peaceable countryside is the increasing rudeness, intolerable congestion, and immense clutter around us, NJTransit to NYC included. We can do our business from any number of locations, some of them logical and virtual. The price of proximity to the city has for us become linked to increasing stress and bother that aren't worth it. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 96 Registered: 10-2005 |
I just happened upon this thread, and I have to say I am so happy to have an outlet for this discussion.... I happen to be a chunky white, balding guy who commutes in/out of the city everyday. Wouldn't you know it, but I typically put my coffee or my reading beside me, to signal that I would prefer not to share my seat with anyone else. I have to say, I've always wondered why people glare at me, make snitty comments under their breath, and take an inignant tone when they want me to give up the seat next to me. I am always polite about it, so there's no need to assume a nasty tone. Allow me to first say that nobody has really provided any good arguments about WHY I shouldn't be doing that? You are all seething with venom, yet you haven't actually suggested what the problem is? If there is an empty seat across the way, or a rider that doesn't have a newspaper next to him (signalling that he's fine having a guest sit next to him), than why must you bother me? Are you naturally antagonistic? Granted, I don't use the phone on the train (rude), and I don't support that at all. But the seat space problem is really about your taxes and NJ Transit. The seats are paltry, and the three abreat seat is a stupid idea from the beginning. Take your gripes to NJ transit....ask for morre room and space. I definitely don't get up early before my stop... I think those people are complete idiots. | ||
| ess Citizen Username: Ess Post Number: 752 Registered: 11-2001 |
Smarty, whether or not a passenger is "fine having a guest sit next to him" is completely irrelevant. Those people purchasing tickets are entitled to a seat. It doesn't matter that the three-across seats are crowded or too small or whatever, they serve as seats for people who take the train. Why should someone stand just because your belongings are next to you? Until you actually purchase a ticket for your newspaper, briefcase, laptop, or coffee, then move your stuff and deal with the fact that someone is going to sit there. This has absolutely nothing to do with NJ Transit, and everything to do with people's selfishness and lack of consideration for others. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 97 Registered: 10-2005 |
ess, to clarify, I travel with a monthly pass, not a one-ride daily ticket. | ||
| shestheone Citizen Username: Shestheone Post Number: 208 Registered: 5-2003 |
smarty, i think ess's point is that when you have TWO monthly passes, you can claim a seat for your coffee and personal belongings. otherwise, the seat next to you is open to any TICKET HOLDER. | ||
| Richard Steele Citizen Username: Brookwood Post Number: 45 Registered: 5-2005 |
I travel with a monthly and a bag everyday.I don't Expect a seat, but if there is one available and I would like to sit down, My purchase surley gives me the right to do so.Just like your monthly gave you the right to sit your balding fat guy self down anyone who buys a ticket should have that choice.I guess common courtesy isn't a good enough argument For fat balding men, but its probably a great argument for healthy fit good looking full haired men with a great attitude  | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 99 Registered: 10-2005 |
now that's just silly. I never said I didn't move my coffee/bag/newspaper to my lap when asked, nor expected my items to take precedence over a passenger wishing to squeeze in next to me. Is it so much to ask people to interact? What is the harm in having to address somebody prior to sitting next to them? Are we that fearful of having to make eye contact anymore? Do you want the train commute home to be in utter silence, make-believing that the person (whose lap you are practically sitting upon) next to you is not there, while you both stare blankly off into the distance? Maybe more people should be more liberal about where they place their belongings....it'll force us to deal with each other a little more frequently, which might cause people to be more friendly/polite with others. We're all in this commute thing together.....it seems to me that most of you are looking for reasons to get into spats with people on the train. It's like you have road rage, but on the train. | ||
| weekends Citizen Username: Weekends Post Number: 94 Registered: 1-2002 |
The Train (Words & Music by Suzzy Roche) I sit down on the train with my big pocketbook the guitar and a sugar-free drink I wipe the sweat off of my brow with the side of my arm and take off all that I can I am trying not to have a bad day everybody knows the way that is Even though my baggage and I are using up a two person seat I'm not trying to be funny but the guy who sits down next to me is even bigger than that we are overflowing out of the seat I can't look at him he doesn't look at me Once you step on you might never get off of the commuter train it doesn't go very far away but just the same it s a trip and a half My face is pressed up against the window and through it I can see the reflection of the train I spy on the big guy sitting next to me he's drinking two beers and reading the New York Post trying not to get in my way everybody knows the kind of day that is He is miserable I am miserable we are miserable can't we have a party would he rather have a party after all we have to sit here and he's even drinking a beer I want to ask him what's his name but I can't cause I'm so afraid of the man on the train | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10093 Registered: 5-2001 |
Smarty, see my post at the beginning of this thread. I regularly see people stand instead of asking someone to move their "stuff" off a seat. I don't think people should have to risk an arguement to sit on a train. | ||
| Richard Steele Citizen Username: Brookwood Post Number: 46 Registered: 5-2005 |
Nobody wants to be forced to interact with anyone.If you want a seat in the morning why wouldnt you think someone else wouldn't want one without the hassle of asking someone could they please move there belongings.You got to sit down without that hassle.If you want to interact have a friendly look on your face and let someone know that hey here is an availabel seat.How are you this morning.that will start somone's morning off way better than having to wait for someone to move there things and other people behind them waiting to search for there seat. | ||
| Richard Steele Citizen Username: Brookwood Post Number: 47 Registered: 5-2005 |
Most people who hog up the seats usually have there head burried in theie paper like an ostritch in the sand.They think if I don't look up I will master the art of being invisible.....Man we see you!Just be a gentleman or woman and leave the space. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 100 Registered: 10-2005 |
People would rather stand 30 minutes than ask somebody to lift their newspaper??? Sounds like the standing people are the ones with the issues..... Why does everyone assume an argument will ensue upon requesting some extra space? Seems to me that it's YOU PEOPLE who are out trolling for arguments. | ||
| Lucy Smith Citizen Username: Lucy123 Post Number: 70 Registered: 6-2005 |
Smarty: To quote you: "Wouldn't you know it, but I typically put my coffee or my reading beside me, to signal that I would prefer not to share my seat with anyone else. " "Is it so much to ask people to interact? What is the harm in having to address somebody prior to sitting next to them? Are we that fearful of having to make eye contact anymore? Do you want the train commute home to be in utter silence, make-believing that the person (whose lap you are practically sitting upon) next to you is not there, while you both stare blankly off into the distance? " You decide to preach about the sad state of affairs we are in that people can't even make eye contact with each other yet you admitted you don't even want to sit next to someone! Why is it that you prefer to not share your seat??? That is much more anti social than simply not wanting to ask someone who obviously doesn't want a neighbor for the seat. We assume that an argument will ensue because it happens and there is "train rage" and we don't know that you happen to be the one man on the train with his crap next to him who doesn't mind moving it and does it with smile  Because as you know...most do it with a grumble and glare and huffing and moaning and groaning. | ||
| ril Citizen Username: Ril Post Number: 438 Registered: 6-2001 |
Why should I have to ASK you for something (a seat) that purchasing a ticket entitles me to? Perhaps you should look up, make eye contact and OFFER to move your stuff so someone might sit down (and that way you can choose your seatmate, instead of getting someone who's already annoyed by having to ask your permission to use the seat). Train riders are not your "guests", we're paying customers. If you want an extra seat for your coffee, buy it a ticket. | ||
| TomR Citizen Username: Tomr Post Number: 870 Registered: 6-2001 |
Smarty, Don't argue with them, and definitely don't propose a reasoned point of view. Its obvious that you just don't understand the dynamics of existence in accepting, tolerant, and harmonius Maplewood. TomR | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 11615 Registered: 1-2003  |
This thread shows that the term "common courtesy" is an oxymoron. The term supposes that everyone has agreed on certain things. In this case, it's that the seat you paid for is available and you don't have to ask for it. Smarty, the money should be enough for a passenger to have his seat free and empty. And imagine the price of tickets if the trains had four seats across instead of five! Innisowen, people have been talking about rude New Yorkers for literally centuries. I think your tolerance has changed, not New Yorkers. Not that that's bad. Mine decreased, too, and I stopped living and working there. Not that NJ is a heck of a lot more pleasant, but it is a little. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 11616 Registered: 1-2003 |
TomR, are you proposing that not wanting to ask for one's seat is evidence that one cannot think with reason and logic? It's about the "cost" of asking. Smarty seems to say it's not high. The others are saying it is. | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 1538 Registered: 5-2001 |
Smarty Jones is spot on. Someone has an unpaid seat for their laptop and coffee? Suggest, "Can I sit here?" I've said it a 100 times, sometimes I get a grumpy "yes", but it's always a yes. I don't care when a stranger taking up two seats gives me the stink-eye - when they buy an extra ticket we can talk. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 103 Registered: 10-2005 |
Tom, there's a reason LIRR and the new NJ transit trains are going to 2X2 seats (double decker) which is that the 3 seaters are just too small. Also, while I appreciate your effort to look at the trainride like an economist (ie paying for a seat/attaching costs/etc), I'd like to offer my own suggestion on your logic...you aren't paying for a seat when you buy a ticket. You are paying for a ride from point A to point B. No guarentee of a seat is given, either explicitly or implied. Otherwise, you could claim a refund for every trip you were required to stand, which is half of them. While on the topic of buying seats, I'd gladly pay twice my monthly fare for reserved cars with more space/seating/coffee/drinks etc. But NJ transit isn't interested in making extra revenue. They'd rather just hike the fares on everyone rich and poor, as opposed to just hiking fares on those willing to pay more for more. Until improvements occur, we all squeeze in together, you, me, my coffee, my paper, your laptop, your bag, your phone, my work-day stench....unless, of course, pudgy bald middle-aged white guys are too frightening to speak too..... | ||
| SO Ref Citizen Username: So_refugee Post Number: 1361 Registered: 2-2005  |
Passive aggressive behavior personified... | ||
| TomR Citizen Username: Tomr Post Number: 872 Registered: 6-2001 |
Noglider, I submit that one cannot think WITHOUT reason and logic. Not wanting to make the request? I dunno. Could be caused by a person's reluctance to interact with strangers. Could be a person's sense of entitlement. Could be a "I hate this @##$%@ commute every morning" attitude. As I wrote, I dunno. I further submit that asking a passemger to move their belongings from an adjoining seat is no more onerous, or an inposition, than asking a person blocking a supermarket aisle, or a sidewalk, to let me pass. No reason to be beligerent in making the request. A smile and a polite attitude have usually been sufficient to achieve the desired result, whether it be on a train, in the supermarket or a public thoroughfare. If the COST of asking is too high, I hope the person who believes that never poses an inconvenience to another member of society. (We all get in the way sometime). Smarty DIDN'T write that people COULDN'T sit next to him. Just that he prefers to sit alone. He also wrote that he's polite and doesn't expect his personal possessions to take precedence over other passengers. He prefers to sit alone. Others prefer to sit with other passengers. Can't we all get along. TomR | ||
| TomR Citizen Username: Tomr Post Number: 873 Registered: 6-2001 |
Hey, I just had an idea. Everybody who prefers to sit alone, raise your left hand. Everybody who prefers to sit hip-to-hip with their fellow passengers, raise your right hand. I'll check the hand count in the morning and post the results. TomR | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 11619 Registered: 1-2003 |
Most of us prefer to sit alone on the train. Some of us, however, don't believe it's right to place a hurdle to sharing the seat beside you, even if the hurdle is very low. That is the discourtesy, in our view. Just as you'd prefer to sit alone, we'd prefer not to talk. Is that so dissimilar? | ||
| ess Citizen Username: Ess Post Number: 755 Registered: 11-2001 |
Unfortunately, when one rides public transportation, one doesn't have the luxury of preference. Sure, wouldn't we all like to spread out on cushy seats. If that's truly your preference, hire a limo. Otherwise, deal with the fact that someone might want to sit down -- hip to hip, tush to tush, whatever. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10096 Registered: 5-2001 |
The "three seaters" were an economic decision brought about by the redo of the line back in the 1980s. Oddly, if the line had been turned into diesel only NJT would have stayed with two by two seating. On the Hoboken line people rarely sit in the middle seat and will stand as an alternative. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2142 Registered: 9-2003  |
Same stuff happens on the Amtrak where the seats are bigger! The faux "I'm sleeping" sprawl and other behaviors. I nearly always prefer to sit alone to gather my thoughts and do a crossword puzzle, but I don't park my stuff next to me unless it's pretty empty. I like sitting with a friend if there's one on the train, but mostly I hope to avoid people who talk into cell phones the whole way to/from work or have loud iPod like things in their ears. I wish there were "quiet cars" as on Amtrak, or cars that were an array of single seats. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10101 Registered: 5-2001 |
Back in the days before NJT took over the Erie Lackawanna there were private subscription cars. These cars were leased by a group of commuters and were relatively spacious and comfortable. Some even carried a bartender/butler to serve the members. In Europe even the subways have first and second class seating. Maybe this could work on NJT? | ||
| TomR Citizen Username: Tomr Post Number: 875 Registered: 6-2001 |
Noglider, Not dissimilar at all. TomR | ||
| Zoesky1 Citizen Username: Zoesky1 Post Number: 1316 Registered: 6-2003 |
So even iPods annoy people? Geez. What's next -- breathing annoys people? The sound of loud pages being turned or newspapers rustling? | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2145 Registered: 9-2003 |
Just the really loud ones! Some of us are not good in the morning....z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 11621 Registered: 1-2003 |
But TomR, the person asking for the seat would rather sit alone than with the already-seated person, but given that the choice is sqooshing in together or standing, squooshing sucks less. That's why he asks to sit. The already-seated fat bald guy is creating the burden of asking, whereas the asking-to-sit guy isn't really creating the burden of sharing the seat; he is presenting the reality that existed for the first guy when he got on the train, which is that he may have to share his seat. If it's rush hour, the reality is that he WILL have to share it. Why should someone have to ask? | ||
| TomR Citizen Username: Tomr Post Number: 879 Registered: 6-2001 |
Noglider, Somebody has to do something to accommodate another. In your scenario, first guy was there, well, first. I don't see the burden of asking first guy to move his stuff as being onerous. Others may. If we all adopt the attitude that we shouldn't have to ask for something when first guy is in the way of what we want, how do I deal with the person blocking the supermarket aisle, or the people blocking the sidewalk? Al Capone was definitely right, but I'll stick with using a smile. TomR | ||
| TomR Citizen Username: Tomr Post Number: 880 Registered: 6-2001 |
Oh! I forgot about the poll. 37 respondents indicated that they prefered to sit alone. 3 responded the they preferred to sit hip-to-hip (although they are all on the registered sex offenders list). 42 thought it was a robbery and raised both hands. 72 wanted to talk about something else and the poll drifted to the issue of whether there should be religious displays at Ricalton Square. 97 thought the question was framed in a misleading manner and accused me of conducting a "push poll". The remaining 471 refused to participate telling me that it was rude to place the obsticle of a poll in the path of their morning commute and/or that I shouldn't have intruded on their space by speaking to them. Happy commutting to all. TomR |
