| Author | Message | ||
     Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 2036 Registered: 8-2003  |
wendyp - The last few episodes have lead me to think Carmela may be the one to take over! she is getting very savvy about the business. And she seems to be losing her moral ground. (see her session with Melfi). She's finally admitted she hasn't always been bothered by what Tony does to make money. completely unrelated - I thought you'd go back to your Meandtheboys name  please..... | ||
| Josh Holtz Citizen Username: Jholtz Post Number: 380 Registered: 4-2004 |
I actually loved the fact that the rapper paid Bobby to shoot him in the leg (after Bobby says he is a marksman) and then gets shot in the a**. I couldn't think of a more embarrassing news headline for a gangster rapper. Funny stuff. | ||
| ess Citizen Username: Ess Post Number: 1621 Registered: 11-2001 |
Carmela is such a fantastic character. I rave about her all the time. The combination of how Carmela is written and how Edie Falco plays her is phenomenal. Would love to see her take over. She was very perceptive regarding Vito (excuse me while I vomit) and has demonstrated in the past a certain acumen for business. I think that if Tony does become "born again", his position as "Skip" would be severely compromised. Don't forget, Vito (excuse me while I vomit) and Phil Leotardo and Johnny Sack and even Paulie are the metaphoric circling sharks. One crack in Tony's wetsuit and they come biting. | ||
| The Soulful Mr T Citizen Username: Howardt Post Number: 1732 Registered: 11-2004  |
so, Carmela Soprano = Michael Corleone? | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 1427 Registered: 4-2004  |
Carmela and Meadow will never- NEVER- crack the old boys club. And Tony has had moments of moral clarity before, but he quickly reverts back to his old form. He once told a friend (Robert Patrick, the degenerate gambler who Tony destroyed) the fable of the frog and the scorpion- Tony being the scorpion- to illustrate that relationships are secondary to his own self-interest. Carmela has moved away from her guilt over the lifestyle she lives and the means by which Tony provides it. She is now about seeing her family succeed regardless of any moral consequences. Her ultimate fate will be decided by how long Tony stays in charge- that glimpse of Paulie and Vito in the elevator confirmed what she already knew. Rosalie Aprile and Angie Bompensiero demonstrated what happens when the husband is out of the picture, and Ginny Sack is seeing the same thing. Carmela has accepted her role and determined to see her loved ones provided for- a healthy, happy Tony is all that stands between them and the gutter. | ||
| Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 2038 Registered: 8-2003 |
I'm not sure I agree, Brett. But we'll see how it plays out. I don't think Carmela is nearly as subservient or naive as Rosalie or Angie. I think Carmela is WAY tougher than all of them, including poor Ginny Sack. I agree Meadow will never be partof the family business.... she's way too naive and too much of a daddy's girl to really believe the worst of him. She knows what he is but she chooses to bury it in her subconscience | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 1428 Registered: 4-2004 |
You're right about Carmela, Pippi. She is a survivor. I just don't think this bunch is accepting female members. In their world, she could never back anything up with the necessary violence that the men use so casually. Carmela may become a valuable advisor to Tony, albeit discreetly- his crew would never tolerate him revealing business to his wife. | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1566 Registered: 10-2004 |
Johnny Sack is a wack job, and I am sure he is prone to violence, but let's be honest here, he doesn't stay at the top because he is the strongest or because he can back his words up with his fists. He's on top because he has henchmen who do what he tells them to. Like I said way earlier on this topic, I think that Carmella would be great as the boss but I don't think the producers/writers of the show know how to pull it off nor could the majority of their audience accept it. | ||
| The Soulful Mr T Citizen Username: Howardt Post Number: 1733 Registered: 11-2004 |
Gator and Pipmeister, I agree with you. I also think that, as I said above, it would be [too?] reminiscent (sp?) of Michael, the innocent, evolving into the Godfather. What a great group of secondary characters, though: Ginny Sack, Rosalie, Angie, Bobby B. and Janice. How very not-like-normal TV. I also like Carmela's father who struggles to remain a strong male figure knowing full well what an animal his son-in-law is and how helpless and ineffectual he is around Tony. It was sad when his attempt to partner with Carmela on building the house went south. | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 1430 Registered: 4-2004 |
Johnny Sack and Tony "made their bones" before they rose to power. Tony still gets his hands dirty when needed (Pussy, Matt Bevalaqua,Tony Blundetto). Nobody gets ahead without soldiering first, and women don't get in period. Just look at the contempt Paulie and Vito had for her when they were told to pay up- they only did so because Tony woke up. To put Carmela in a position of overt power within the crime family would be ridiculous and implausible. The behind-the-scenes roles of the women are far more fascinating anyway- Carmela, Janice, Livia all wield power in ways the tough guys don't even comprehend. Now, Carmela may not be the next Michael Corleone but A.J. is a natural-born Fredo... | ||
| Buzzsaw Citizen Username: Buzzsaw Post Number: 4361 Registered: 5-2001  |
AJ is also the Jar Jar Binks of the Sopranos | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1569 Registered: 10-2004 |
I often think of Cristufa as Jar Jar too. Maybe Jar Jar with teeth however. | ||
| Buzzsaw Citizen Username: Buzzsaw Post Number: 4364 Registered: 5-2001 |
Wha? Much better acting coming from M.I.  | ||
| The Man Citizen Username: Bumboklaat Post Number: 170 Registered: 2-2005  |
AJ is definitley the most annoying character on that show. It just seems he is the quintissential stunad. | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 1748 Registered: 5-2001 |
The Sopranos is coming to a head, and it's a fight between the Capos and Capos-wanna-bes. The underlying theme of strong women (Carmella, Dr. Melfi, Tony's mother, Meadow, Paulie's mother(s), Janice - even Ginny Sack) comes up repeatedly. These guys hate/need their women and catagorize them as Madonna/Whore everytime. Carmella was the Madonna until it looked like Tony was dead - then she was "The Princess" Poor Adrianna was a borderline Madonna until she messed up and the last words she heard was that she was a ••••. Women support the men in the Sopranos world, but if they venture beyond Sunday night gravy and manicures they are dangerous. | ||
| Dego Diva Citizen Username: Fmingione Post Number: 713 Registered: 12-2003 |
I believe that the first episode of the show foreshadowed how the series will end. When Tony's henchman wanted out, we learned the stark reality that the only way out is death. To me, at the time, it seemd like an odd way to start the season - this character, whom we hardly know, kills himself in order to be free of the mob. Now, here's Tony, narrowly escaping death, saying "I should have been dead", and now acting like a "softer", kinder Tony. I predcict that very soon, he'll want out, and the rest of the season will be about how he gets out. How he'll do it is another question - he doesn't strike me as the kind of man to kill himself, but who knows. | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 1437 Registered: 4-2004 |
I dunno, DD- Tony is pretty much irredeemable. There is no going back for him. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7168 Registered: 5-2001  |
He makes little starts here & there, but, ultimately - he's too far into his lifestyle and all the "perks". Paulie will definitely get caught & whacked. He beat that poor kid up after Tony promised the mother that nothing would happen to him. And he's skimming from the boss. I think the conflict will come from Tony coming to rely on Carmela; Silvio is getting weaker. | ||
| breal Citizen Username: Breal Post Number: 831 Registered: 6-2002 |
Maybe the season opener was Chase's offering to the "keep it real" gods. Maybe now he'll bookend the opener with a closer that allows Tony to go out with a bang. Tony's "code" does include loyalty to his family. Maybe he can die trying to save that idiot A.J. I think I'm in what's called the negotiation stage. | ||
| Joe R. Citizen Username: Ragnatela Post Number: 376 Registered: 6-2004 |
Tony could be going "undercover" bathrobe style like Vinny "the Chin" Gigante. Remember the residual "brain damage" comment from the doctor? | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 1756 Registered: 5-2001 |
Greenetree - First of all - totally agree on Paulie ripe for a whacking. But I think you hit the nail on the head with the real conflict being about Tony relying more on Carmela. The enduring underlying conflict (channeling Dr. Melfi here) has always been about the matriarchs in Tony's world. Even Paulie's temper tantrum against that poor kid was envy because the kid's mother loves him - meanwhile Paulie rejected his selfless "mother", and his bio-Mom is a fallen Nun. Paulie is careening down a path that won't end anywhere good. | ||
| Meandtheboys Citizen Username: Meandtheboys Post Number: 3514 Registered: 12-2004  |
I SOOOO hate Tony right now! I understand WHY, but why the kid? So many of the other guys could have really used that beating. Paulie, for instance! Serves him right he threw up blood! What are we thinking happened to Vito? | ||
| jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 449 Registered: 1-2006  |
Great episode. (4/9) Who's going to take over? HA! Tony's back, bloody vomit and all. I predict some major moves against the Johnny Sac family. Johnny is in jail, his own guys think he's weak. I mean, crying at a wedding! The scenes from next week suggest they're going forward with the hit, I think that a dead captain will stir up some problems. I assume Vito killed himself. I guess that'll be a relief for Meadow's fiance. Anyone notice who Frankie Valle played. He was in the credits. J.B. | ||
| ess Citizen Username: Ess Post Number: 1678 Registered: 11-2001 |
Tony was trying to act "as if". For a second, I thought the episode might have been staged, but that is preposterous. It was weird, and scary, and made Tony look weaker instead of stronger. It was too bad "Penne Arrabiata" got it; he did nothing wrong. I was thinkin' that maybe Vito was going to shoot himself. It looks like he is underground right now, and as soon as the word gets out that he is gay, he will, in fact, shoot himself. The vibes I got from the previews made it look as though his secret gets discovered. The whole scene at the wedding was pathetic. Btw -- I loved the scene when Carmela and Tony were making note of the gift they were giving. Their explanation of why was so totally unironic and deadpan. | ||
| ken (the other one) Citizen Username: Ken Post Number: 391 Registered: 5-2001  |
It would make sense to me that Tony beat up his body guard on purpose, to prove a point that he is still in control. Throw the bodyguard a few extra dollars. Frankie Valli plays Rusty, who has been in the past two seasons. | ||
| jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 450 Registered: 1-2006 |
Acting "as if": I knew that advice was a bad idea as soon as I heard it. ess, what do you mean "the whole episode might have been staged?" Do you mean the fight? I think the slo-mo assesment of everybody's biceps was Tony picking the biggest guy to kick the sh*t out of. He passed on all of the fat guys. That's why he's the boss. J.B. | ||
| jamie Citizen Username: Jamie Post Number: 477 Registered: 6-2001  |
Anyone notice the sublimal advertising? These are the ones I picked up on in this episode: Coke, GQ, Blockbuster, AMEX - "Don't leave home without it", Allegra, Calvin Klein. | ||
| jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 453 Registered: 1-2006 |
Jamie, It's not subliminal if you're conscious of it. It's product placement. It's everywhere. http://www.topmodelforsale.com/ J.B. | ||
| ess Citizen Username: Ess Post Number: 1680 Registered: 11-2001 |
Jamie - TONS of product placement. Jersey Boy - I had this fleeting thought that Tony had arranged with his driver that he would beat him up, and the driver would let him, so T looked strong. Like I said -- it was a preposterous notion. Yes, he was checking out the biceps. He would not have looked as tough picking on a chubby guy. | ||
| Lizziecat Citizen Username: Lizziecat Post Number: 1152 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was that blood that he threw up, or was it just tomato gravy? | ||
| jamie Citizen Username: Jamie Post Number: 478 Registered: 6-2001 |
I think it was Campbell's Tomato Soup. | ||
| jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 459 Registered: 1-2006 |
I think Italian people's blood IS tomato gravy. J.B. | ||
| Meandtheboys Citizen Username: Meandtheboys Post Number: 3515 Registered: 12-2004 |
Frankie Valli plays Rusty, "the mayor of munchkinland," the guy Johnny Sac wants Tony to whack. I loved the whole conversation about the proposed "whacking" which took place under the nose of the U.S. Marshalls, while Tony and Johnny were sitting at the table with the old folks who couldn't hear a word that was being said. Great wedding conversation. But I guess with Johnny going straight back to jail, it really was the only time they'd be able to talk face to face about it. | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1647 Registered: 10-2004 |
Overall, a very slow episode. Next weeks looks better. I also thought the writing was sorta...bad. The scene in the psychiatrists office was pat, and in fact, I don't ever remember the dialogue being so terse and trite for any of their sessions in any season. Yuck. If it was intentional by the writers, all I can say is it wasn't well done. The writing actually seemed a bit weak all episode and the editing felt herky jerky to me and wholly lacking flow. This made the episode hard to watch and overlong. The scenes at the wedding, slower than mollasses -- little or no dialogue and the little their was...mostly uninteresting. The whole nonsense about the muscles (with the overused slo-mo no less) and Tony needing to take on the strongest most manly and virile dog in the pack to prove that he isn't weak like Johnny Sac just struck me as oversimplified pop psychology. I did like the Vito scenes. And I just assumed he was dead. I like the idea that you guys posed of him deciding NOT to kill himself. Now imagine him going out with a bang and enjoying life (and when I say life I mean Meadow's fiancee) since he is already a deadman. Well that would be a very interesting twist to a pretty bland sub-plot. Or what if, Vito tries to save himself by taking over the business by knocking out Tony. Ok both of these are a stretch, but I firmly believe the show needs to be shaken up quite a bit. The scenes from next week looks like there should be some good stuff to come however. | ||
| Buzzsaw Citizen Username: Buzzsaw Post Number: 4417 Registered: 5-2001 |
Vito in that leather outfit was awesome! | ||
| notehead Supporter Username: Notehead Post Number: 3151 Registered: 5-2001  |
Tony is going to continue feeling that he wants to get out, and in order to accomplish that, he will have to orchestrate his own whacking. AJ is also the Jar Jar Binks of the Sopranos I totally agree. If we're lucky, he'll make some kind of fatal mistake while trying to whack Uncle Junior. | ||
| Buzzsaw Citizen Username: Buzzsaw Post Number: 4418 Registered: 5-2001 |
This like is a series stand out: "alegra... wtf does that have to do with cold medicine?" | ||
| Meandtheboys Citizen Username: Meandtheboys Post Number: 3516 Registered: 12-2004 |
I kinda thought Vito was plotting to kill the guys that saw him in his leather get up. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7197 Registered: 5-2001 |
Me& - I thought so at first, but I think Vito's hiding. The only reason that I think he's not gonna kill himself is that whatshisname did that just a few weeks ago. I'm not sure that Tony wants out. But Meadow is gonna dump Finn soon enough. Introspective, stop-and-smell-the-roses Tony is hard to take. It's also weird to see him being affectionate with Carmella. I agree about his session with Melfi, when she tells him not to show his weakness. That was so not their relationship. Did they have a guest writer from Joey this week? | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 1459 Registered: 4-2004 |
Tony's choice of the bodyguard to beat up made perfect sense; a) a younger, stronger tough guy who can't really fightback in earnest (and live), and b) there are no hard feelings as there would be by beating up a veteran crew member. Tony beat up Georgie at the Bing so many times it became comical. Now you have Phil questioning Johnny Sack's ability to lead, and Paulie flaunting Tony's weakness- power grabs are sure to follow. Vito is either dead or planning to take someone with him- he is "out" and won't survive when the news hits. Anybody see the look Paulie shot at Christafuh while playing cards- if looks could kill... |
