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moving soon
Citizen
Username: Movingsoon
Post Number: 67
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 9:40 pm: | 
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One of the recent threads had all sorts of ominous warnings about not letting anyone without a license work on your house. It was in reference to handyman work...is that really an issue?
Two specific questions: if someone is doing simple carpentry for me, do they need a contractor's license?
I'm considering acting as GC for my bathroom renovation project. I'll hire a licensed plumber & electrician, but the crew doing the demo/tile/drywall etc. would be unlicensed & uninsured. Would that put me at risk? |
george H
Citizen
Username: Georgieboy
Post Number: 127
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 3:59 am: |
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Technically speaking,if the someone doing simple carpentry work is a person you know or trust,then probably not.The licensing issue was developed to bring contractors into compliance in regard to having the proper insurance and to give the state,by virtue of consumer affairs,some oversight,and you the homeowner,some protection.Why would you want to act as your own G.C.? To save money? Do you really know whats required of the person in charge of a bathrm. project? If you let uninsured people work on your home,you deserve what you get.Your homeowners policy might cover an incident,but then again,they may drop you after that and you may find yourself in a higher risk category. |
Michael K. Mc Kell
Citizen
Username: Greenerose
Post Number: 844
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 8:37 am: |
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Everyone including landscapers are required to be licensed with the department of consumer affiars. No contractor can pull permits without said license number. Everyone must carry workers comp even if a one man operation. All quotes must have a copy of the dec page of the insureds policy. That is the law of the land.
This business is not all peaches and cream as many of the folks on this board have voiced. The biggest hurdle is assuring the customer that your not a theif and will look out for their best interest. I'm licensed, registered and well insured including full benefits for my workers and get really ticked about this subject. If you saw my insurance premiums you'd understand too.
I'm a stickler |
Jgberkeley
Citizen
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 4434
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 9:03 am: |
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It became State law at the first of the year.
I too am licensed and have all the needed insurance.
The law is pretty clear that if you as a homeowner pay someone to do the work and not do it yourself, that person must be licensed and insured.
Since the first I have been audited once for insurance, and found an inspector wating at my truck one afternoon wanting to see my license.
Given the fines, this is pretty serious. Even if the job does not require a permit, the license and insurance must be in place.
My insurance audit has made it clear that I can no longer hire Cash only day labors. My workers must fill out W-9's and will get 1099s.
I think we will be hearing a lot about this over the next year.
Later,
George
DBA
Home Improvements by George, LLC
973 953-0781 |
george H
Citizen
Username: Georgieboy
Post Number: 128
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 5:47 pm: |
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Michael,your mistaken about the requirement that even one man operations need to carry workers comp.The only insurance needed for a state license is liability in the amount of 500,000$. |
Michael K. Mc Kell
Citizen
Username: Greenerose
Post Number: 848
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 5:56 pm: |
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George,
I beg to differ. W/O starting a pissing match I'll call my broker in the morning to confirm this.
I can and will not hire a 1099 / sub without coverage. At the end of every year, I am audited by my comp carrier and pay and A/P for those who can not produce a valid certificate.
On another note: As for day labor... Never have, never will. |
David Cataneo
Citizen
Username: Dave_cataneo
Post Number: 111
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 6:27 pm: |
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It's always been my understanding that a sole proprietor(no employees)can opt out of worker's comp. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10710
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 6:48 pm: |
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Day laborers do not qualify as independent contractors and just about every Workers' Compensation insurer is going to include them in your premium audit as employees. The same is true for general liability coverage, the 1099 amounts are going to be included in your premium audit. Basically, if you don't have a certificate of insurance on file, you are going to be charged as if such workers are employees. Since insurance companies often aren't that bright, it may take a while for them to catch up with you.
Most states allow sole proprietors to opt out of the Workers' Compensation system. It is possible that the Consumer Affairs Department can require coverage in addition to what is required by the Workers' Compensation board.
Any homeowner who is having work done on their home should require the contractor to supply a certificate of insurance for general liability, automobile liabiliy and workers compensation and the homeowner should also be named as an additional insured under the policies.
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Fotboat
Citizen
Username: Fotboat
Post Number: 50
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 6:56 pm: |
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Does this hold true for the lady that cleans my house once a week? |
Jgberkeley
Citizen
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 4437
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 7:04 pm: |
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This is George B not George H.
I infact opted out so I know that you can do that, until the day. The day I hired a helper and that helper stepped on a nail.
I now have workmans comp, I hire on W-2 or 1099 only and day labors are out of my life.
Even that is a problem some times. This past year I hired a licensed plumbing company to do part of a job for me. When I had my W. Comp audit, I was not able to produce a Cert. of insurance, and the plumber told me that he could not as he did not pay the bill.
So I had to pay it.
Good luck to you.
George B |
upondaroof
Citizen
Username: Upondaroof
Post Number: 555
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 7:30 pm: |
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Michael is correct to a point. If he subs work to another contractor, even a one man op who carries no comp, he (Michael), will be on the hook for any premium generated, unless insurance coverage is in effect for the sub.
There is no requirement that sole props and partnerships with out employess must have comp insurance unless they are incorporated.
But as a caveat, let the homeowner beware that comp insurance only protects the employer and not the home owner. If an employee of the contractor is injured on a job he's doing for you, he can and probably will sue you if it's lucrative enough for him and his shylock lawyer. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10712
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 4:23 am: |
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Yep, which is why on larger construction projects contracts usually contain a "hold harmless clause" that requires the contractor to indemnify you for negligence. The additional insured clause I mentioned before helps, because it essentially makes the contractors coverage primary for damage and injuries on the job.
There are a number of tests for independent contractor status. Among them are that the independent contractor provides tools, materials, plans the job and runs the job on his own schedule. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10715
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 5:00 am: |
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Fotboat, your homeowners insurance probably includes Workers' Compensation coverage for occasional in servants and out servants. I don't know if this is required by the Department of Banking and Insurance here in NJ or not. Check with you insurance agent or read your policy. |
Michael K. Mc Kell
Citizen
Username: Greenerose
Post Number: 849
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 8:11 am: |
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I love when contratctors band together! |
swato
Citizen
Username: Swato
Post Number: 168
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 8:16 am: |
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As a contractor when I am on a sales call I will hand the homeowner / business owner my business card, show them my NJ State issued Burglary & Fire & NJ Contractors license, copies of CURRENT workers compensation and professional liability insurance documents before we talk any business. You should ask and the contractor should supply the above documents it’s for your protection.
Swato
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upondaroof
Citizen
Username: Upondaroof
Post Number: 556
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 10:48 am: |
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Another caveat here regarding insurance. Copies of the policy dec page are fine to show that the contractor has insurance, but prior to signing or as a stipulation in the contract, the customer should request an insurance cert from the contractors insurer. This certification can only come from the insurer or their agent and is the only bona fide proof that insurance coverage is in effect. Also make sure that the insurer will notify you if coverage should lapse during the course of the project. |
Michael K. Mc Kell
Citizen
Username: Greenerose
Post Number: 850
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 12:09 pm: |
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We contractors need a topic page here on MPOL.
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Sherri De Rose
Citizen
Username: Honeydo
Post Number: 58
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 12:18 pm: |
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Swato, is the NJ Contractors License the same as the license received from the Dept of Consumer Affairs?
If not, where do you get this license? |
Jgberkeley
Citizen
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 4438
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 12:41 pm: |
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Speaking for myself, my NJ Contractors license was issued by the New Jersey Office of the Attorney General, Division of Consumer Affairs.
I has a seal. |
mark halliday
Citizen
Username: Markhalliday
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 3:55 pm: |
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My General Contrators License was issued by NJ, administered by dept of consumer affairs, a minimum of $500K is required and the state of NJ has to be named ont he prrof of insurance form. As a sole proprietor I AM NOT required to have workmans comp insurance. I carry $2 million dollars because I am not crazy and the xtra coverage is cheap by comparison. I use License sub-contrators who are also required to have insurance. Also The township of SO requires GC's doing work in the town to have a South Orange GC Licnese and name South Orange on a seperate proof of insuarance. That the rules.
More to the point, not using a person who is working on ANY aspect of your house(by far your biggest investment/liability) is a gamble at least and just not smart. A story in the news a few months talked of an exterminator who drilled into a wall, hit a gas pipe and blew the roof of the house. I could come in to hang a picture, use too long a screw(never happen of course!) and hit a live wire..... and the list goes on. Why chance it ? |
Cindy Bellow
Citizen
Username: Sob
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 5:43 pm: |
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what would be wrong with hiring a licensed carpenter/handyperson as well as plumber and electrician, and manage the timing of the project yourself? |
mark halliday
Citizen
Username: Markhalliday
Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 7:44 pm: |
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I'm not saying you can't do it. size is an issue. You just have to ensure that each is talking to the other and that no "cracks" turn up in the handoffs from one trade to another. also when you hire a contractor its all his problem so you really only deal with one person. everything else is his problem. And his policy covers the whole job. God forbid but if something happens you sue only the contractor. the "trikle" down is his problem. But you can do it. Get a book on being your own contractor and scan it. there will be some good ides in it. good luck |
swato
Citizen
Username: Swato
Post Number: 169
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 7:48 pm: |
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Sherri De Rose
It is the same one.
Swato |
Sherri De Rose
Citizen
Username: Honeydo
Post Number: 59
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 8:04 pm: |
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According to what I've read on the G.C. licensing web pages, unless you actually build homes, the only license you need is that which is thru the Dept of Consumer Affairs. For that you only need, $90.00, a registered name and proof of insurance. There is no test to determine if a G.C. or sub is actually qualified to do work. Anybody have any other info than that? That means that really anybody with the above can work on your home. |
upondaroof
Citizen
Username: Upondaroof
Post Number: 557
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 8:45 pm: |
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Jeeez Sherri, we ain't talkin' about opening heads here! |
mark halliday
Citizen
Username: Markhalliday
Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 11:22 pm: |
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like I said...do your homework and give it a shot. I genuinely meant the good luck |
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