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Message |
    
Star Princess
Citizen
Username: Star_princess
Post Number: 5
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 11:52 am: | 
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Anyone know of a good company to blow in some insulation into the walls of a house? |
Czele
Citizen
Username: Czele
Post Number: 95
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 12:27 pm: |
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Glen Reilkelt Contracting 845-876-6559.
He is certified to install BioBased (an eco-friendly & VERY efficient foam insulation).
http://www.biobased.net/products/advantages.php
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sac
Supporter
Username: Sac
Post Number: 3497
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 1:34 pm: |
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We used Flesher Home Improvements a few years ago. See http://www.flesherinsulation.com/.
We were pretty happy with the job they did. |
Shanabana
Citizen
Username: Shanabana
Post Number: 571
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 8:53 pm: |
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We used Paulsen Insulation. You can pl me for the info. |
MittenReckitt
Citizen
Username: Mittenreckitt
Post Number: 38
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 8:19 am: |
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Can someone please elaborate on what this project entails - is it pretty much like it sounds?
Also, ballpark costs for an average size house (2400 sq feet)
Thanks
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sac
Supporter
Username: Sac
Post Number: 3512
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 9:35 am: |
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First they cut little holes in the walls, almost as if they were done with a cookie cutter. Ours were done from the inside, so we later had to re-wallpaper, but sometimes they do it from the outside. Then they literally blew the stuff in with something like a reverse vacuum cleaner. Then the holes were filled in with a cookie-shaped piece of foam material and spackled in. They had carefully cut flaps in the wallpaper which they then glued back down. It wasn't totally invisible, but quite satisfactory until we could get around to wallpapering later.
All of this made a dusty mess in the house, but the person who did our job covered everything well and did a great cleanup afterwards, so it wasn't too bad.
We only did our ground floor and a portion of that was already insulated, so I think what we did probably represented only about 25-30% of the whole house. I think it cost about $1500, but I can't swear to that and it was over 5 years ago. When we got the estimate it was fairly proportional to the cost of doing the entire house at once, so we decided to address the worst area first and then see if we wanted to do the rest later. As it turns out, getting the ground floor to retain a bit more heat helped even out the entire house and we haven't felt the need to do the rest. (Or at least not enough need to justify the additional expense.) |
Ibeme
Citizen
Username: Ibeme
Post Number: 23
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 9:57 am: |
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We dd blown in insulation in eh early part of the winter and it cost $4000. Our house is a three story six bedroom albeit a small one. The name of teh buy that did it is Tony Parasmo and his company is called Energy Specialist. His number is 201.933.0468. He does it from the exterior and if your house is wood clapboard sided, allow him to ramove the board where necessary and reattach them. We experimented with drilling holes in the board and patching them and the board that were removed look a lot better. |
Eire
Citizen
Username: Eire
Post Number: 190
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 10:08 pm: |
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is blown-in insulation good for the long haul too? this may sound weird, but someone told me that the stuff can kind of "settle" and fall down in time... does that sound right? |
MittenReckitt
Citizen
Username: Mittenreckitt
Post Number: 42
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 10:59 pm: |
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Ibeme
Did you notice a signficant difference in the comfort level of your home after completing the project?
Thanks
Mitten |
kevin
Supporter
Username: Kevin
Post Number: 734
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 11:39 pm: |
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After all is said and done, do you notice more dust around the house for a while?
I'm thinking about after an evening where the wind has been hitting your previously drafty house -- does some of the dense pack insulation, which hasn't completely settled, come out of places like the electrical outlets?
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Liz
Citizen
Username: Mschiquita
Post Number: 134
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 10:27 am: |
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we used Divine Energy Solutions and are pleased. Our 2000 sq. foot house cost app. $4000 and it included a thick layer of insulate in the attic, as well as blown in for for the main home, our sun room and little ensuite wing. They did it from the outside (pried off cedar shingle and then reset with clear caulk), and while we were told we would need to repaint, it was a little worse than I imagined, but the house needs a painting anyway. But if you opt for external entry, know you WILL need to repaint. They do a good search of the interior, to be sure there aren't any holes where the cellulose could blow in...The only interior drama came from a hole in the kitchen, hidden behind the dishwasher - when they were blowing in from the outside it came in through that hole and made a mess. I have to say they handled it very well, with excellent customer care attitude - they sent a mechanic over right away to pull out the washer safely and then patched up the hole, and brought in their special vac to clean up all the mess, which was in the cupboards, countertops, etc. They did a good clean up job outside, too and we notice a vast improvement in our main downstairs area, and a good improvement in other areas (which is what they said would be the case). Our heating bill stayed the same as last year, despite the huge bump up in heating costs..
James is the manager there and a very kind, helpful young man. You can google them for their website and contact info. Note that we opted for the cellose, (supposedly) environmentally safer insulation.. |
TomD
Citizen
Username: Tomd
Post Number: 470
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 10:31 am: |
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To those who have done this, what kind of benefits have you seen in heating and cooling? If you had to estimate, what would you say in the payback time on the investment? |
Richard Kessler
Citizen
Username: Richiekess
Post Number: 145
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 12:52 pm: |
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We had Divine blow in insulation last fall. Liz is absolutely correct that if you have a clapboard house, you will have to paint afterwards. It could be even worse, as we had a fair number of clapboards cracked pretty bad when they were taken off--we're going to replace them before painting. My only complaints about Divine was that they didn't bother to advise us to take certain things off the wall and when they started their work, a couple of keepsakes were destroyed...they did take some money off, but these things can't be replaced. Also, they just left all the wooden pucks around the property, these are the pieces of wood that are drilled out to blow in the insulation. |
doulamomma
Citizen
Username: Doulamomma
Post Number: 1584
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 6:32 pm: |
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To add a related question:
Would this sort of insulation be appropriate for the ceiling of an attached garage? We have rooms over the garage that are colder than other rooms...we know we need new garage doors, but think maybe insulation too...I wonder if this would be a fire risk though...thoughts? |
Liz
Citizen
Username: Mschiquita
Post Number: 139
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 8:55 pm: |
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my thoughts for doulamomma - It all depends on what the ceiling is like - our attic is a huge open space so we needed a layer (like 20 inches deep) of insulate. The stuff they blow in has to be, well, blown into a space that can contain it. That said, we had it blown into the ceiling of our sun room and little en suite wing (both had crawl spaces that were empty but contained). You could have a company or two come out and give you their assessment. Regarding fire risk, all the insulation products are treated to be fire retardant. The other thought is that you want to be sure there is proper ventilation, and so just be sure to discuss that with the companies when they come. |
doulamomma
Citizen
Username: Doulamomma
Post Number: 1590
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 6:52 am: |
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Thanks Liz |
Ibeme
Citizen
Username: Ibeme
Post Number: 25
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 1:08 pm: |
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Insualtion professionals are supposed to have someone stationed inside as they're blowing from the outside. This is to prevent disasters like the dishawsher story Liz mentioned. I had a similar situation happen when we did it at out house, but I work from home and was in the room that the insualtion started coming into, and was able to tell them to stop before it got REALLY bad. Tony from Energy Specialist was a pro at removing the board on our clapboard house in such a way so that repainting was not required. } |
Politicalmon
Citizen
Username: Politicalmon
Post Number: 179
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 3:00 pm: |
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Did anyone see a reduction in energy costs after this process?
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Ibeme
Citizen
Username: Ibeme
Post Number: 27
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 5:06 pm: |
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I'm not sure if it was the insulation or the slightly warmer weather, but my energy bills did decrease, albeit slightly. |
connied76
Citizen
Username: Connied76
Post Number: 36
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 7:56 pm: |
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Sorry to say that I had no such insulation work done and my energy bills were on par and perhaps slightly less overall this winter than last year because of the warmer winter. So, it seems there is not good evidence to support that this was worth the money in terms of recution in energy costs. That probabaly makes me re-consider as I was, too, thinking about doing this. Any benefit other than reduced energy costs seen for those of you who have had it done? |
Liz
Citizen
Username: Mschiquita
Post Number: 141
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 8:52 pm: |
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Sorry I didn't know about Energy Specialist - sounds like they are great! Regarding benefits - what I failed to mention about our energy bills was that we kept our thermostat 1-2 degrees higher at all times this past winter due to our newborn (and thus enjoyed a much warmer home overall than last winter when we bundled up in fleece and fuzzy slippers) - I really do think the insulation helped keep costs lower, if even a little...and we also notice a price drop with the central a/c. But all that $$ talk aside - the biggest benefits we have seen are 1. the two rooms that are apendages,if you will, of the main house, are much closer in temp to the rest of the home now..and 2. the main floor of our home is season-appropriately warmer/cooler than before the insulation. I will say that sadly, my vision of the second floor seeing a BIG change did not happen. It's better, but not fabulous. I personally feel it was worth the $$ given the changes before and after.. Hope this is remotely helpful. |
sac
Supporter
Username: Sac
Post Number: 3538
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 9:09 pm: |
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Our house was much more comfortable after we did it. Previously it was extremely chilly on the ground level. Since that is where the thermostat is, that meant that the heater worked overtime and the upper floors were often too hot as a result. After we had the insulation done on the ground floor, it evened things out a great deal. It can still be a bit chilly downstairs on really cold days, but it is much better than before. I can't really say about fuel costs because there are so many variables - changing weather, changing prices and we got a new furnace at some point in there. |
Travis
Citizen
Username: Travis
Post Number: 449
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 7:07 am: |
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Quote:is blown-in insulation good for the long haul too? this may sound weird, but someone told me that the stuff can kind of "settle" and fall down in time... does that sound right?
Yes the problem with loose cells insulation is that it "settles" over time, by as much as 20%.
It is still way better than fiberglass, which just allows convective air currents to blow right through it.
If you have house wrap over the external sheathing, it may be possible to "dense-pack" the cells by blowing from the inside (take out the baseboards), i.e., get the cells dense enough so they won't settle. There is some debate as to whether dense-packing cells works to avoid settling.
Probably the best, and easily most expensive, approach is to use foam, say open-cell foam. But I'm not sure the technology is there yet for blowing into closed-up wall cavities (even if the products are there).
The research agrees on one thing: very important to seal air gaps in the walls. That is one of the big advantages of cells and foam over fiberglass.
Even if you fill the walls with insulation that seals air gaps, you've only got about 3.5" with insulation of about R-3.x per inch, say R-12 total. But you have to take away anywhere from 25% to 40% because of thermal bridging through the wood studs. You could recover some of that by putting foam board over the outside (need to remove siding and trim out windows and doors) or (if you're remodeling) the inside. Say 3/4" of styrofoam over the inside wall (behind DW) would give you an additional R-3.x with no thermal bridging. |
Richard Kessler
Citizen
Username: Richiekess
Post Number: 146
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 8:03 am: |
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We noticed a considerable difference after having insulation blown in: less drafty first floor, heat seemed to be retained much longer, and lower heating bills--even with my wife staying home with our daughter as opposed to the year before when we were both at work during the days. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11918
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 9:17 am: |
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1. Because of the increase in cost of fuel you have to make comparisons based on gallons or cubic feet, not cost.
2. For the garage ceiling, assuming it is open, I would use fiberglass. If the garage isn't heated remember to have the vapor barrier facing up towards the second story. Maybe not the best solution, but reasonably effective and cheap.
3. Few people would put styrofoam inside their house. You would lose some room and all the trim would have to be redone as well. By using a polyethelyn continuous vapor barrier and using sealing tape at joints, floors and ceilings, you can eliminate most drafts with fiberglass insulation.
And, for the record, no I don't work for Owens Corning.  |
Travis
Citizen
Username: Travis
Post Number: 450
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 12:04 pm: |
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Quote:By using a polyethelyn continuous vapor barrier and using sealing tape at joints, floors and ceilings, you can eliminate most drafts with fiberglass insulation.
Building science now discourages plastic VBs except in extremely cold climates. They advocate vapor retarders instead (3/4" of styrofoam has a perm rating of 1). Low-perm paint is usually also sufficient as a vapor retarder. Basically they want at least some drying in both directions, otherwise the VB is on the wrong side of the wall for half the year.
More here. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11926
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 2:34 pm: |
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Travis, interesting. However, I have always thought the reverse infiltration is more a problem in the hot, humid south than around here. |
Travis
Citizen
Username: Travis
Post Number: 451
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 4:37 pm: |
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The CW has been VB on the outside in the hot humid south, on the inside in the cold north. But once you have AC around here, your VB is on the wrong side when you run the AC on hot humid summer days. It's only exacerbated by having a completely impermeable surface like polyethylene where any moisture from condensation is stuck in the stud bay. If that inside surface is just a vapor retarder, there's at least a chance of drying to the interior. Otherwise you may have a mold factory on your hands.
If you poke around that web site for House Designs That Work, you'll see that they have pretty much the same wall designs for cold (Pontiac MI) and mixed-humid (Atlanta GA) houses: 1" of XPS on the outside (to stop thermal bridging and summer vapor drive) and semi-permeable paint on the inside as a vapor retarder. They are more concerned with moisture transmitted via air infiltration rather than diffusion, so they are relying on an air-tight DW wall to stop infiltration (as well as dehumidification in winter). The big problems here are penetrations like pipes and of course electrical boxes.
I've heard of an interesting wall design from U of Alberta. They put about 4" of polyisocyanurate on the outside, covered with a plastic membrane. Now there's no condensation into the structure, it's all stopped by the membrane. The wall cavities are kept at house temperature with no insulation. It is the perfect wall system, no condensation problems no matter what your climate, and no thermal bridging. Of course it does rely on whole-house dehumidification, and a retrofit to an existing house would require extending out all of the window and door trim. |
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