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Reesa
Citizen
Username: Reesa
Post Number: 145
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 3:41 pm: | 
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Before deciding to hire professionals, we had attempted to do some of the painting/ prep work ourselves and had sanded and primed/ painted much of the woodwork. In many places the paint/ primer is peeling off and we thought it was because we didn't sand sufficiently. Painting America and New Colors came to look at the job. According to the guy from New Colors, the peeling is due to latex primer and paint put over oil based paint. He said that in order to do the job right, all of the latex paint/ primer needs to be stripped off and then an oil based primer needs to be applied before being able to use latex paint. His estimate was DOUBLE Painting America's estimate because of this. Does anyone know if this is valid? We obviously want the job done correctly - but the price was really expensive. We have 2 more estimates coming in. |
Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1806
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 11:47 pm: |
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I'm willing to be corrected, but as I recall the following are valid combinations:
bare wood > Oil primer > latex paint
bare wood > Oil primer > oil paint
bare wood > latex primer > latex paint
If you have existing paint, you need to determine if the paint is 'chalky' or not. If it is, then you need to sand... and going to bare wood is advisable. I do not believe you're able to 'slightly rough up' oil paint and then put latex over it (but I may be wrong here).
It sounds like you might have rough sanded the old paint job (without going to bare wood) and then put on primer and paint. If the paint failed, then it probably IS due to surface preparation... though it could also be something like an extended delay between prime and paint, where you got moisture in the primer?
If you are getting two more estimates, my suggestion would be to KEEP QUIET about what New Colors said - let the contractor give you his opinion. Ask questions, for sure, about what he think caused the issue... you may be surprised to learn that everyone you talk to agrees. In that case, you may be in the position of having to sand to bare wood. Logically, if your house is currently peeling there's no way to paint over that - you'd be forced to do a complete strip (there's just no way to cover peeling paint, I'm afraid).
Keep doing what you're doing - get estimates - and I'm sure you can find a way to make the job work for you. It may be a bit more expensive, but as you mention in your post... its important for this job to get done correctly!
Good luck, and let us know what your other estimates reveal. |
Darren Say Grrrrrrrr
Citizen
Username: Darrensager
Post Number: 459
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 12:31 am: |
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I would agree with Case on the assessment and paint combinations.
Another bit of information. No matter who you use make sure they guarantee their work. Chances are you should get a 2 year warranty from a good painter. Beyond that, its anyone's game.
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Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 850
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 8:25 am: |
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Cases formulas are accurate, however, Latex Primer will adhere to aged Oil Based paint, or Oil Based paint that has been properly sanded. More often than not, adhesion problems like you detailed are due to improper washing. Having analyzed hundreds of homes for Paint-Warranty issues, I can help you determine the cause, particularly if you can post a couple photo's of what is happening. Couple questions:
1. Exterior/Interior?
2. Brand of Paint/Primer?
3. Last time house was painted PRIOR to your work?
4. How many layers are actually peeling? Just the Paint? The paint and the primer? (you can tell if it's two layers if the front and back side of the paint peels are two different colers.
Rarely rarely rarely rarely is full paint removal neccessary, I'd advise you to do your homework before a final decision is made. |
Reesa
Citizen
Username: Reesa
Post Number: 146
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 2, 2006 - 10:10 pm: |
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1. It's interior.
2. Where we applied primer and paint, it was Behr, but unsure of what the previous owners used where they made the same mistake.
3. No idea how long ago the house was painted prior to our work
4. In some places it's just the top layer, in others it's multiple layers
Update: had painter number 3 come - George Mera. He said almost the same thing as the guy from New Colors - basically that the problem is due to latex primer on top of oil paint. He said that the wood does NOT need to be stripped completely, but that he would sand it as best as he could, then apply oil based primer on top to provide a good barrier. He recommended Benjamin Moore's oil based satin impervo paint for all of the trim. His price was a few hunderd less than New Colors. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 12006
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 3, 2006 - 5:53 am: |
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This is a good case study on reading the label before using any paint product.
Just about every painter around here uses Zinsser Bulls Eye 123 primer, a departure from their usual love of all things Benjamin Moore. The label says it will cover any type of paint. We use it around the house and have never had a problem. |
Longheadself
Citizen
Username: Longheadself
Post Number: 20
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 3, 2006 - 9:23 pm: |
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If there's old milk (cassein) paint from the 20's underneath there, you may continue to have problems no matter what you do short of stripping it off.
Just a thought. Hopefully you don't. But if its multiple layers, I would say its possible. Frequently it had a kind of creamy yellowish-white color although other colors were available. It was frequently used for woodwork. On walls in the early half of the 20th century there was a product called cosumine that had to be washed off before repainting, basically a tempera "technology". After WW 2 latex paint was touted as an amazing miracle product that would stick to any thing with minimal prep. Many people assumed that included cosumine. Not so. Occasionally walls painted with cosumine and not washed off, even from back in the 40's and 50's come back to haunt us.
Good Luck. |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 866
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 4, 2006 - 7:16 pm: |
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Reesa, can you post a photo? |
Reesa
Citizen
Username: Reesa
Post Number: 148
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 7:36 am: |
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having minor camera problems, will post photos soon.
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Reesa
Citizen
Username: Reesa
Post Number: 149
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 7:46 am: |
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here is a photo of multiple layers peeling
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Reesa
Citizen
Username: Reesa
Post Number: 150
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 12:03 am: |
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bump |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 932
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 7:48 am: |
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Interesting....unfortunately the picture came up a little grainy, so it's hard to say exactly. However, my inclination would be to think it's not a Latex over Oil problem, because it looks like bubbling in areas through, yet the area right above it is adhering fine. If you take a scraper at the edge of that peeling, are you able to scrape away long easy sheets, or is it localized to those spots? How many peeling spots are you seeing throughout the work you did, and is that a piece of trim we are looking at, or something else? |
Reesa
Citizen
Username: Reesa
Post Number: 151
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 12:31 am: |
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long sheets of paint peel off easily. That is a door frame and the reason it's so pronounced there is because of a pressure mounted baby gate. It just was a perfect example (unfortunately I guess it didn't show well) of multiple layers of paint peeling at once. It looks like we're going to go with Jorge Mera and he will guarantee his work against peeling...Thanks for your assistance with this issue, Smarty. |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 947
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 11:12 pm: |
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Reesa- sorry I didn't have better news....long easy sheets is not good news....good luck with your solution. I think you made the right decision. |
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