| Author |
Message |
    
Dhearon
Citizen
Username: Dhearon
Post Number: 56
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 8:14 am: | 
|
I think I'm going to put in a tree in the back corner of my yard, however it's underneath 2 huge ASH trees and 1 huge Black Walnut, so it's under shade, but they are tall enough (40'+) that they do get some sunlight, and I've noticed other trees are growing underneath. I have 3 questions:
1) What is a good tree for this situation? I want something that will grow, and eventually replace the cover I get from the Ash trees, which I anticipate will be coming down in the very near future.
2) What age/height of the tree is the best time to plant? Sapling? 8'? etc.?
3) What time of year is best for planting?
4) What kind of costs am I looking at?
Thanks! |
Elizabeth
Citizen
Username: Momof4peepers
Post Number: 118
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 11:57 am: |
|
Fall is generally considered the best time for planting for most trees. Japanese Maples (I have been told) better tolerate being moved/planted in the spring, so they are one exception. Are you looking for fast growing? shade? ornamental? The optimimum size to plant depends on the variety you ultimately choose. Your costs will be commensurate with the size of the tree (bigger the tree, more expensive it is). Most trees are sized by the width of the trunk (2" or 3" is what I've most frequently seen).
Do you want these shade trees to replace the shade you get from the ash trees? If so, how soon? Trees don't grow to 40 feet in a year or two - more like 10-15 years (again, depending on variety).
As for pricing, it depends on the tree variety and size. My suggestion is to visit a few nurseries and check out their trees and prices. You can then ask them for their recommendations. They can also tell you how long to maturity, maximum height, etc.
Does that help? |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4455
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 12:24 pm: |
|
One option would be a silver maple. They grow pretty fast. But, they don't live as long as oak trees.
Don't plant Norway maples. They are non-native and shade out EVERYTHING.
Linden or basswood would be nice and would be a change from the usual oaks and maples.
Tupelo/black gum is also a nice interesting option.
If you don't mind a bit of tree mess, starleaf gum or sycamore are also good options.
Or even sassafras.
I have a bit of a bias against oaks and maples since they are everywhere. |
mjh
Supporter
Username: Mjh
Post Number: 662
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 12:29 pm: |
|
Two trees we planted and that are doing very well:
White birch
Non fruit-bearing pear (grows fast, good shade) |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 12086
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 12:43 pm: |
|
Two problems with your plan. First, the new tree is going to have to compete with the three existing trees for light and water and probably wouldn't survive or become stunted, bent, etc.
Second, in digging a hole for the new tree you are going to damage the roots of the other three trees, hastening their demise.
I wouldn't plant the new tree, until you take out the old ones. I would talk to an expert before proceeding. |
Politicalmon
Citizen
Username: Politicalmon
Post Number: 198
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 1:14 pm: |
|
BoB K hit it right on the head - don't spend the energy unless you've address the issues he brought up. |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4457
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 2:27 pm: |
|
Young trees can handle the shade of mature trees. If you have some trees on your property that appear to be approaching the end of their life, plant some new trees and have the old ones removed at some point. I can't say that I will be following my own advice, but I think it is sound advice.
And BobK, what is the talk about consulting an expert. I didn't have you figured for somebody who reads instructions before putting things together and operating new machines, but I guess you are. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 8290
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 3:35 pm: |
|
Agree with Bob & PM. The other thing is to consider where the tree will be (near a structure?) and how far/deep the root system will go. It may not be a problem for many years, but if you don't choose the correct tree for the spot, it will be a problem eventually.
We have a sweet gum, which is kind of cool. I like it because it is maple-ish, but not. You look at it & say "that's unusual." |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 893
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 7:58 am: |
|
Consult with experts? What do you think MOL posters are? :-) Thank you Elizabeth, tjohn, Greenetree.....If I was ready to plunk down and make a purchase, I'd go ahead and start soliciting bids from experts, but I'm not there yet which is why I'm looking for advice and ideas on-line.
To answer some questions:
1. There are already some trees growing underneath the giant trees and doing quite well. I'm not planning on planting this tree at the base of existing trees, rather, it's going to go where a dead Pine tree currently sits. (Neighbors must have planted a xmas tree or something, and it looks like it never quite worked)
2. Faster growers would be great, as I don't care to wait until retirement to enjoy the tree to its fullest. Shade is nice, but we're already in the shade, so it's not neccessary.
3. We already have a Black Walnut, and cleaning up the walnut bombs that come down is enough work as I'm ready for....so low maintainence is preferred.
4. I can't wait to take down the neighbors trees....for that reason....I don't own them. Thats why I'm looking for something that will flourish in the shade. |
juju's petals
Citizen
Username: Jujus_petals
Post Number: 293
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 8:32 am: |
|
Some dogwoods do well in the shade, some require only part sun. They grow fairly fast and don't leave behind debris. They do, however, require a consistent watering (more than the average tree) the first year until their roots are well-established. |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4463
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 8:44 am: |
|
Actually, even oak trees grow reasonably fast at first.
Now, is the shade full or dappled sunlight. Norway maples, for example, result in shade so complete that very few plants can grow beneath them. I don't know that a sapling can handle dense shade.
OTOH, if there are a few hours of sunlight per day, I think a sapling will do find.
If you want a faster grower, a silver maple would be a good option. |
Camnol
Citizen
Username: Camnol
Post Number: 404
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 9:23 am: |
|
Remember that the light situation will probably change if the ash trees are removed.
MJH--Is it a Bradford pear? If so, just keep an eye on that pear tree. They are shallow rooted and are notorious for toppling in wind storms when mature. Not a good tree for the home landscape--but they are lovely.
http://www.aces.edu/dept/extcomm/newspaper/may10b01.html |
mjh
Supporter
Username: Mjh
Post Number: 664
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 9:47 am: |
|
Camnol;
You are soooo right about that. It is a Bradford pear. We lost one in the front yard for that very reason (a heavy snow, and it split in half), and replaced it with a Japanese maple so as not to have to deal with it again.
However, we're keeping our 15-20 year old Bradford pear well-trimmed, and hoping that if branches are not too overgrown, and the tree is somewhat "balanced", it won't topple or split so easily. Who knows if it's really helping, but so far it is still going strong, and it is so very lovely.
It's not so cheap to keep it trimmed, though (it's beyond a size we can manage ourselves) so I'm not sure if we'd elect to plant another. I should have said all this when I recommended the tree, so I'm glad you said it. Guess I love the tree so much I tend to overlook the downside! |
joy
Citizen
Username: Joy
Post Number: 523
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 10:00 am: |
|
The Bradford Pear is know as the OT Tree because of all the work it requires for pruning in the towns that plant them.
I have to disagree on the silver maple - fast growing = weak wood. Several neighbors have had trees topple or split in a storm. One was down the street and the tree almost came down on the house - it was held up by the phone wires - barely.
the other was next door - huge limbs were coming down in their yard. One was over our house. We brought this to their attention and eventually they had the tree taken down. |
Camnol
Citizen
Username: Camnol
Post Number: 407
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 10:01 am: |
|
MJH-
They are a lovely tree, I agree. I'm glad you are keeping an eye on yours. I'm surprised that landscapers plant them so readily--I guess it is because they are such a beautiful tree in the spring. I have a friend in Chatham that lives on a cul-de-sac that was lined with B. pears. The street was so lovely in the spring, until a windstorm snapped all their pear trees in half. Luckily no one was hurt. |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4465
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 10:07 am: |
|
Joy,
How old were the silver maples? I agree that as they age and start to shows signs of rot, preemptive removal is wise, but when they are young and healthy, they are strong enough. I have a pretty large one in my backyard. It has three trunks which I have cabled together, but I would have done that for any tree with triple or double trunks. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 8298
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 10:54 am: |
|
If anyone has young kids, I'm having major tree trimming done this week. Lots of trucks & cherry pickers! Last time we did this, the kids in the neighborhood sat on the sidewalk across the street and watched without moving for hours. |
joy
Citizen
Username: Joy
Post Number: 524
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 11:09 am: |
|
Tjohn - The trees were very mature - the one in my neighbour's yard had been trunkated and the water sprouts had grown into large trunks. The other was a big one on Prospect that was 3 to 4 stories tall.
There's one across the street from us with a double trunk that I'm just waiting for it to fall into the street. It too is probably close to 4 stories tall.
I guess when I walk around town all I see are the old silver maples that seem to be on their last legs. I guess I never knew differently.
Tjohn - you know your trees - I respect your advice. |
Elizabeth
Citizen
Username: Momof4peepers
Post Number: 119
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 12:38 pm: |
|
If you've already had one tree fail at the site (the pine) double check that you don't have soil issues. Yes, it may have been doomed from the start to plant the Christmas Tree, but you might also want to address drainage issues (the plant might've drown with all the clay soil around here).
That said, a couple of trees you might want to look into are: river birch, paperbark maple, hemlock, washington hawthorne, or some crabapples are shade tolerant. (Elizabeth now ducks as arrows fly at her suggestions. )
|
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4468
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 1:15 pm: |
|
Joy,
Thank you for respecting my advice. But always get a second opinion. |
wnb
Citizen
Username: Wnb
Post Number: 445
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 3:21 pm: |
|
We have a dogwood and it has been doing quite well under the larger trees in a partial shade type situation as you describe. It's a great tree. We thought it had died a few years ago during a major draught (I am not much of a waterer and tend to let nature take its course) but the tree bounced back and has thrived ever since. |
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page