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Rudbekia
Citizen
Username: Rudbekia
Post Number: 172
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 3:43 pm: | 
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I had Maplewood's health inspector, Robert Roe, out and he recommended that we only scrape our peeling paint and not sand due to the fact that we have an infant and we have exterior lead paint. So I'm looking for someone who can just scrape the areas of the house that need it and repaint those areas with the same color paint. Any suggestions? Also, is this a dumb way to do it? |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 939
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 3:54 pm: |
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Not a dumb way to do it at all.... |
fabulouswalls
Citizen
Username: Fabulouswalls
Post Number: 134
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 4:21 pm: |
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I would be careful with spot repairing like that. There is a possibility that the paint won't match if the house has been painted for some time. Paint will weather with age. It happens faster here in NJ because of the wonderful climate |
wnb
Citizen
Username: Wnb
Post Number: 453
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 4:51 pm: |
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I did that a couple of years ago to try to hold off on a whole house paint job. There is only one way to do it, the dumb way, and it is impossible to do the job in such a way that the end result is not equally dumb looking. Save yourself the trouble.
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 12149
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 5:53 pm: |
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Up until a few years ago most house painters did very little sanding. They scraped bad areas and maybe feathered in the edges with hand sanding. It isn't necessary to strip the house down to bare wood to paint and actually this should only be done as a last resort when paint will no longer stick, is badly alligatored, etc.
Other than cost, why not have the whole house painted the old fashioned way? |
wnb
Citizen
Username: Wnb
Post Number: 454
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 9:57 am: |
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Just to be clear, what I was referring to was only painting the scraped parts. The result is patchy and splotchy looking and stays that way. You can scrape only instead of sanding, but plan on painting the entire house, not just the scraped areas.
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Robert MW
Citizen
Username: Robertmw1
Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 3:09 pm: |
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I got my house painted that way last month, George Mera and his crew did a great job at a reasonable price. (973)444-1956
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Rudbekia
Citizen
Username: Rudbekia
Post Number: 173
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 9:58 pm: |
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Robert MW, what was your reason for having your house painted that way? Same as mine? Could you PL me with your address so I could take a look at the result? Did you just have the parts that were scraped painted, or did he paint the whole house? |
Cerebrus Maximus
Citizen
Username: Xtralargebrain
Post Number: 77
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 11:15 pm: |
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Can someone please tell me what the connection is between lead based paint and the infant??? The sanding is done outside of the house. The debris is vacuumed up as much as practicality allows and the balance largely carried away by the wind. The infant is inside the house. Am I missing something?
I dont know if anyone else cares about the Hispanic laborers working for Rutgers as much as I do but some homeowners curiously insist on having a tarp draped across their house during the sanding process. Do you have any idea what is is like to work under a tarp in a dark, sweltering and dusty environment??
What is the tarp supposed to accomplish exactly?? Why would you subject the Rutgers staff to that kind of punishment? Try working in those conditions for even 15 minutes. I thought that this was a liberal community but ironically, it seems determined to torture these kind Hispanic laborers by forcing them to work in a horrible environment. What is the basis for your decision to force these poor laborers to work under a tarp? You should all be ashamed of yourselves. |
Rudbekia
Citizen
Username: Rudbekia
Post Number: 175
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 8:28 am: |
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Cerebrus, I would have appreciated your starting a new thread on this subject, possibly in Soapbox, since I'd really like to hear responses to my question as opposed to this thread being hijacked. I can answer your questions, though. The tarps are attached by town ordinance. Homeowners do not suggest it to the painters, they are required to work that way by the town due to the fact that many painters do not use vacuum sanders appropriately (attach more than two sanders per vacuum, etc.) and therefore dust drifts everywhere, including onto neighboring property (this happened to us during our last paint job by Rutgers and they ended up having to replace our back lawn and powerwash our neighbors' property about 8 times).
I don't think that no one cares about the workers but the effects of lead exposure are much less severe to adults than to children. Workers should be required by their employers to take appropriate measures to protect themselves from the lead exposure--wear masks at all times and be educated about not wearing their clothing they've worn on the job into their homes, etc.
Sanding a house painted with paint that contains very high lead levels creates an amount of lead dust that cannot be entirely caught by HEPA vacuums even under the best circumstances (which most painters don't attain anyway). The remaining dust, even if it's only 10%, will fall on decking, soil, driveways, etc., places where infants are known to frequently play on their hands and knees. Since infants spend so much time placing their hands on the ground and then putting their hands in their mouths, if there is lead dust on the ground, infants will ingest it and can be poisoned by even very small amounts of lead. This is why homeowners worry so much about infants and painting. Also, the risk of lead poisoning lessens enormously once a child is past the age of 7, the years leading up to which constitute the main brain development phase. If you have any more questions, I'd be happy to discuss them in a different thread. I'm sure it would be an active one. |
Cerebrus Maximus
Citizen
Username: Xtralargebrain
Post Number: 78
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 9:01 am: |
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I cant connect some of the dots in your response. You could address my question here or in another thread as you suggest.
You point out that the remaining not collected by the vaccuums falls on decking, soil, shrubs, etc. So please tell me then why the tarps are not placed on the ground, covering these sensitive areas. Placing a tarp over the house does not stop this supposed contamination from getting into the soil etc around the perimeter of the house (areas where children are certainly likely to play) and therefore does nothing to stop the infant/child risk scenario you describe above. Indeed, the tarp concentrates this supposed contamination whereas it might more sense for it to be unrestricted so it can be spread out over a wider area and diluted. Shouldnt you or the town insist instead that the ground be covered? Wouldnt this make a whole lot more sense? Am I missing something???????
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Rudbekia
Citizen
Username: Rudbekia
Post Number: 176
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 3:31 pm: |
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As far as I know tarps have always been and continue to be used to cover the ground, shrubs, decking, etc. The tarps hanging from the house are a new safety precaution to prevent the dust from drifting to other people's property. But tarps cannot possibly catch all the dust, and in the case of my last paint job, were simply shaken out onto my property after each day's use (my crew were morons). That is why I am considering merely scraping my home to prepare it for a new painting because if they are not caught in tarps, large chips are much easier to find and clean up than hard-to-see dust, some of which could find its way to my deck as I remove the plastic I plan to use myself to cover every inch of it. And all it would take is a few dust-to-mouth moments for my child to be lead poisoned, which of course is something that if I can take simple measures to avoid I obviously will. |
Cerebrus Maximus
Citizen
Username: Xtralargebrain
Post Number: 79
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 9:34 pm: |
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As a practical matter, you cant contain all of the dust no matter what tarp configuration or vacuum configuration. So at the end of the day, you end up with dust around the perimeter of your home. That is the reality.
With that as a backdrop and with the allegation by the mothers in this town that this paint residue is dangerous if not radioactive, then I am sure you will conclude as I have that either a) you simply SHOULD NOT have your house stripped if you believe this dust to be so dangerous or b) you should not live in a town that has so many older homes that require this treatment. Perhaps you would be better off in a community with vinyl sided homes. Why expose your children to this theoretical risk if you truly love them?????? Afterall, you had the town health inspector out to your house so you must really believe that there is a danger.
Either its dangerous or its not. Which one is it?????
Please only post a response if you dont live in silly world. |
Rudbekia
Citizen
Username: Rudbekia
Post Number: 177
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 9:52 pm: |
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Uh, that's why I posted about only scraping and not sanding--not much dust with scraping, tons with sanding. I have to fix the problem because the paint is falling off my house onto my deck where my baby will play. It was the town health inspector who informed me that there was a danger after taking samples of the paint off my house and having them tested and who advised me to have painters only scrape and not sand the failing areas, thus I posted looking for a painter who would do this. The one painter I've contacted so far would not. Also, I realize you're a troll, but I'm responding because I figure there really are people out there who wonder about this stuff and so better to give out good information then let you do what you're trying to do, which is, of course, tiresome. |
Cerebrus Maximus
Citizen
Username: Xtralargebrain
Post Number: 81
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 10:43 pm: |
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Rudbekia,
Re: Your last sentence; what is it about my postings that places me in the troll category and what is it you think I'm trying to do???
What I am trying to do is stop the insanity and make MOL a place for rational reasonable people to interact. You know, people that use facts and sensible thought processes.
Fine, you are going to just scrape and not sand. So I invite the rest of the community that has endorsed and advocated the use of the tarp to explain in rational terms (hitherto a novel concept in this forum)why they think the use of the tarp is so important after considering from a practical perspective, how ineffective it really is. So far, the only thing the tarp seems to accompish is to create a punishing environment for the hardworking Hispanic laborers. So unless someone can convince me that the use of the tarp genuinely reduces health risks, then I can only conclude that those that promote the use of the tarp are filthy racist hypocrites that delight in seeing human beings (that are not white) suffer. So glad I am living in a "liberal" and "diverse" community. The Nazis had more compassion.
I desperately need an intelligent response to the lead paint residue/tarp issue. |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1692
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 11:00 pm: |
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Um, CM, what is it about your postings? How about your tone, your attitude and your seeming ignorance of lead poisoning dangers?
I too have had some amazingly ignorant painters out to give bids. My favorite were the earnest couple who had no clue when asked about sanding, and said "but lead is only a problem if it's in chips that a kid can eat, right?"
Thanks for the detail Rudbekia. |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 945
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 11:04 pm: |
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Simply put, if you find someone to temporarily repair your peeling areas, you will get a couple more years out of your paint job, without damaging the wood underneath....once it's done. you will likely not notice the repairs unless you look real close, and remember that you didn't go for the "Lexus" of paint jobs....
My advice, do the temp repair until you are really ready to do the whole shebang. |
Cerebrus Maximus
Citizen
Username: Xtralargebrain
Post Number: 84
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 11:10 pm: |
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Susan,
You should not live in this town if you believe that there is so much danger from the paint residue. Havent you noticed that nearly EVERYONE is stripping their houses and repainting. It has been proven that tarps are not effective in mitigating this danger so if you love your children, you will move away from this danger and into a safer vinyl siding clad community.
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Rudbekia
Citizen
Username: Rudbekia
Post Number: 178
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 11:14 pm: |
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Just to play along, if a tarp had been used in the way we are currently discussing during the last painting of my house, the enormous amount of lead-containing paint dust that drifted onto both my neighbors' property would not have. It's as simple as that.
Once the paint dust is spread out over 1/2 an acre or so, remediation becomes a much larger issue than otherwise. Lead dust will remain in the soil around a house forever. Whereas if it's contained and a worker wears the proper mask and clothing and knows how to handle the situation, the worker should experience no adverse consequences. Now the question is, do the painting companies educate their workers about the risks? If not and a worker ingests or inhales lead, the company should be responsible. I'm sure lead abatement companies take all the proper precautions and educate their workers about the risks. Maybe the painting of old houses should be considered a lead abatement job and companies should have to follow the procedures for that kind of work. Of course the cost of painting a house would then triple or more I suppose, but if that's what it takes for everyone to be safe, then I'd vote to pass that ordinance. |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 948
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 7:52 am: |
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Couple points on Lead Paint remediation:
1. Regulation requires tarps on the ground....regardless of tarping the walls/work area.
2. Also, proper procedure calls for a wet sand, which is why you will often see the workers underneath the tarps with a powerwasher running. Not only does it keep the dust to a minimal level, it keeps the heat down too.
With that in mind, I have no idea if the crews are following regulation and procedure....the ones who did the two houses adjacent to our house did so correctly. |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1694
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 10:42 pm: |
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CM, your concern is touching, but I remediate where appropriate, lead test when advised, and generally don't stir up lead paint without very great care.
I know which things in my house are the highest lead hazards, and plan and monitor accordingly.
I choose to live here instead of in the new growth burbs for a wide variety of reasons, and in spite of a more limited variety of irritants... |
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