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katarina alexander
Citizen
Username: Bowlofmilk
Post Number: 2
Registered: 7-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 1:05 pm: | 
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and can recommend someone to come and replace it? Is this typical in some of the older homes in Maplewood? |
eliz
Supporter
Username: Eliz
Post Number: 1621
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 1:33 pm: |
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It is very typical and any electrician can replace the panel. We had ours replaced by Eddie Ore and at the same time upgraded our service.
(973) 762-1172 |
katarina alexander
Citizen
Username: Bowlofmilk
Post Number: 3
Registered: 7-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 1:36 pm: |
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Thx - i will give eddie a call - i was doing a search on google about this & what i read started to scare me a bit - fire hazard problems, etc. |
Arsenal
Citizen
Username: Arsenal
Post Number: 97
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 3:00 pm: |
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Katarina-
They do have a bit of a history hence the company went out of business a while ago. We replaced ours when we moved in. |
J L Bryant
Citizen
Username: Jeffbryant
Post Number: 32
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 1, 2006 - 9:19 am: |
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katarina - just like other examples of manufacturing notoriety in our society (the corvair; the AMC pacer; hundreds of toys that have been recalled; heck even Vioxx didn't kill everyone that took it) you should remember that if FedPac's total products ever EVER made were faulty, then some level of either class action suit or some federal gov. action of forcing complete recall & replacement would have occurred. Point is that not all their panels were "faulty". Maybe 1 in 5? Could be... More prone to than other mfgrs??? maybe....
Look, NO argument, there are solid reasons for being cautious with this issue, but you might - just might - consider having an electrician review or test the panel and allay your fears. Why spend a couple grand if it's not necessary. After all, think how long has the panel been functioning already. Why would your home have a CO if these panel's were absolutely positively unsafe? If the electrician absolutely say it shows signs of pending failure, then definitely replace it. Certainly, you're the one who has to live with it, not the MOL board.
Pls don't misunderstand. I am not saying you shouldn't be concerned. All I am advocating is simply don't throw something out because there have been some other failures of a given product line. Again, if there was REALLY that large of a failure rate, they would have all been mandated to be replaced. THAT you can bet on. I don't think you can bet that your particular panel will fail. Also, consider that it may be in the interests of real estate salesfolks and electricians to latch onto an item in older homes that elicits "whoa, you're gonna need to replace that...".
If you really REALLY think your heading for a fire, then obviously have the panel replaced (and probably you should consider upgrading the capacity too). Ours has been perfectly fine for 7yrs now, and lord know how long before that. But it may not be a cost/action that you need to tackle in this wonderful world of home maintenance.
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katarina alexander
Citizen
Username: Bowlofmilk
Post Number: 4
Registered: 7-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 1, 2006 - 9:30 am: |
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Jeff,
thx for all the info. We had a home inspected & the inspector recommended having it replaced & that is what lead to my posting here! |
fabulouswalls
Citizen
Username: Fabulouswalls
Post Number: 182
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 1, 2006 - 9:49 am: |
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Not all Federal Pacific boxes were defective. I had a FP box in my house and it was fine. However, you should get an opinion from an electrician before you just change the box. Like JLB said. |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 2119
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 1, 2006 - 9:52 am: |
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I think there is a lot of paranoia about Federal Pacific -- after all, its easy to get that way when someone tells you your house is about to burn up!
That said, I've also been told that another possible remedy is to replace the original breakers in the box -- a much smaller task than replacing the whole box.
/p |
J L Bryant
Citizen
Username: Jeffbryant
Post Number: 34
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 1, 2006 - 9:52 am: |
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katarina - my point exactly.... WHY did the inspector caution replacement? Did he see signs that it (that particular panel) was failing or faulty?? My sellers inspector did not recommend it be replaced (gee I wonder why??, who was he working for?? hmmm??), and yet my electrician did not raise any flags either (other than "oh, gee a Fed Pac... well, a lot of folks have replaced 'em...").
ALL I offer on this issue is.... are you CERTAIN that the panel is bad. Are you CERTAIN that totally replacing the brake system is needed rather than just pads after a mechanic looks at the car for 'a little squeak from the front'?
What was the inspectors' motivation to suggest replacement? Because maybe it's a very apparent object/device in the home that he CAN point to?? Did he suggest you might want to look at the condition of all your electrical wiring? The condition of all your pipes or replace the water heater ("oh, gee that's a bock... they fail y'know...")? Did he say repair a hinge or the whole front door???
Again, ALL I'm cautioning is don't blindly replace something because a particular product's poor reputation that has been continuously foisted upon buyers in this area by home inspectors & realtors. It (the panel) IS *absolutely IS* a point of concern...... but for god's sake don't blindly go with someone's council about a product like that when sooooooo many other expenses & concerns are there.
And, ummm sorry for the overpassioned rant.... |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 2120
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 1, 2006 - 9:55 am: |
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which home inspector? is it perhaps one that advertises on MOL? If so, his recommendations are suspect at best...
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HOMMELL
Citizen
Username: Hommell
Post Number: 273
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 1, 2006 - 9:59 am: |
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For example:
Federal Pacific Electric FPE Stab-Lok Class Action Settlement
http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/FPEnotice12-05.htm
This is informational and not legal advice. |
J L Bryant
Citizen
Username: Jeffbryant
Post Number: 35
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 1, 2006 - 10:14 am: |
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Wow...... HOMMEL.... my profuse thanks. wow.... (given one's usage), a reconsideration of risk is warranted. Really, THANKS.
[damn, too late to get in on the lawsuit....] |
Ms. Cooper
Citizen
Username: Ms_cooper
Post Number: 94
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 1, 2006 - 10:16 am: |
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Talk about a coincidence! We have a Federal Pacific box in our basement and we have adopted the philosophy of JL Bryant--we are aware of it, we are aware of the concerns, although once overloaded, the sellers paid for a new sub-panel to bring it up to code so now it isn't overtaxed, etc. I figured everything was cool and didn't want to panic needlessly.
BUT. This weekend, we lost power twice on the same circuit (maybe a short). I went down to flip the switch which was clearly in the "off" position. No sweat. Howevever, I noticed that the two toggle switches next to it were maybe a third of the way to the "off" position. Were they trying to trip off? Maybe all along we have been enjoying a copious supply of electricitly blind to the fact that the system is overloaded and CAN'T trip off because of the faulty box.
So I have been doing my Federal Pacific searches and then saw this thread. Funny. Anyway, I am having someone come and take a look at it to see what they think. Also want to get an estimate to upgrade the system to 220(?) |
Arsenal
Citizen
Username: Arsenal
Post Number: 101
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 1, 2006 - 11:00 am: |
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One other point to think of. Some Home Inspectors make a big deal about the Federal Pacific panel. When we bought our home we specifically made the seller pay us for an upgrade due to its history. Hence, if you sell you may be asked to do the same. Just food for thought. |
george H
Citizen
Username: Georgieboy
Post Number: 270
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 1, 2006 - 11:30 am: |
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I've had a few F.P.panels replaced in conjunction with a service upgrade and each time the attitude of the homeowner was "why take a chance".If replacing your panel lets you sleep a little better,go for it.We're talking approx.$1500 to upgrade the service and replace the panel.Overall,a good improvement to make,with a fair amt. of peace of mind for good measure. |
tb0010
Citizen
Username: Tb0010
Post Number: 33
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 1, 2006 - 11:51 am: |
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It's the luck of the draw -- any manufacturer that makes defective products occasionally turns out one that works. So maybe your Fed Pacific panel might test out OK for now, but given that the mfr has a reputation for making switches that won't always trip under load is enough to merit total replacement. It just doesn't make sense to cheap out when safety is concerned.
I have a friend in town whose house recently burned (noted in another post) due to defective wiring. So I take this stuff VERY seriously.
Please rip out that panel.
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J L Bryant
Citizen
Username: Jeffbryant
Post Number: 36
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 1, 2006 - 12:17 pm: |
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tb10010.... good lord!
"...any manufacturer that makes defective products occasionally turns out one that works. So maybe..."
Whoa, man, ...pessimistic much?? Do you REALLY think that Fed Pac INTENTIONALLY went into manfacturing of a product line & components THAT WOULD FAIL???
Please don't get me wrong... I'm NOT trying to defend Fed Pac, nor do I doubt that anyone takes electrical system concerns less seriously by any stretch..... but man, oh man.... what did they ever do to you to phrase it so harshly reverse? |
Dobler88
Citizen
Username: Dobler88
Post Number: 117
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 1, 2006 - 2:18 pm: |
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I was a homeowner like the ones George mentioned. The panel was mentioned during inspection, I heard the words "fire hazard," I did a little research, I decided, "why risk it?" I knew when I sold it would get raised again in all likelihood, and I knew I was going to be using lots and lots of air conditioners in the house (and maybe getting central ac). So why not replace and upgrade to 200 amps while I'm at it?
who cares whether they will all start fires with certainty, why live with the risk when you are talking 1500? |
tb0010
Citizen
Username: Tb0010
Post Number: 34
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 2, 2006 - 10:15 am: |
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TO JL Bryant, I can't speculate as to Federal Pacific's motivations, but in retrospect it's clear that they had very poor quality control. The company went out of business 10 - 15 years ago or something like that.
When a product has such a bad (and proven) reputation for being defective, why gamble with your life that maybe, just maybe, you have one that works. It's one thing to put up with a questionable product like a defective blender (as long as it doesn't short of course), but when you're talking something so mission- and safety-critical as an electric panel box, it defies logic to take chances. I strongly second Dobler88. |
Richard Kessler
Citizen
Username: Richiekess
Post Number: 183
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 2, 2006 - 6:23 pm: |
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We just had it replaced. We just needed the peace of mind and it was about a $500 job to simply replace the Fed Pacific panel that has the been the subject of concern. One electrician we brought in for a quote really pressed us upgrading to 200amp service, which would have really cost us. In the end, two other electricians did not feel we needed to upgrade service and the replacement and cost, was pretty reasonable in light of the peace of mind we now have. |
Richard Kessler
Citizen
Username: Richiekess
Post Number: 184
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 2, 2006 - 6:29 pm: |
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JL: Why did the automobile companies in the US fight just about every safety advent including seat belts, shoulder belts, air bags, etc. They didn't want to add the cost of making a safer product and only did so when forced by the goverment (at least in the instance of safety glass and seatbelts) . I don't think it's out of the realm of possiblity that Federal Pacific might have made some decisions on cost cutting or cutting of corners to save some money and offer a cheaper product. |
CJH
Citizen
Username: Christel
Post Number: 132
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 3, 2006 - 6:00 am: |
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My concern with the Fed Pacific panel in my tenant's side of the house is that the inspection report specifically says that I was told it should be replaced (not the inspector who advertises here, FWIW). I worry that god forbid something does happen, that the insurance company is going to point out that I knew it was hazardous in the first place and I somehow won't be fully covered since I didn't act on the recommendation in the report. At the very least, I know I'll feel guilty as sin if the inspector gave me the whole Fed Pac history and then something happens. Richard, who did you have replace yours? Do you mind if I ask how much they quoted to upgrade? |
Richard Kessler
Citizen
Username: Richiekess
Post Number: 186
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 3, 2006 - 3:07 pm: |
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We used Adam Schipani for a number of things recently and we cannot be more enthusiastic about him and his colleagues. First rate work, nice people, clean up well afterwards, and reasonable prices. Was between $500 and $600, for the replace of the 100amp Federal Pacific panel, can't recall the exact price. |
CJH
Citizen
Username: Christel
Post Number: 136
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 3, 2006 - 7:32 pm: |
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Great, thanks, I will definitely give him a call when I'm ready to replace and/or upgrade. |
J L Bryant
Citizen
Username: Jeffbryant
Post Number: 47
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 4, 2006 - 9:07 am: |
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Richard - though I thoroughly agree that cost is THE motivating factor for any mfgr to resist modifying a given product (cars, toys, panels...), the point I questioned was: are we that skeptical of our fellow man that mfgr's will release a product that will be inherently unsafe and/or knowingly fail? tb's note made it seem like they deliberately put out a panel & breakers that would fail..... and sorry, I don't believe the worst about folks, that's all. Yes, sure, I'm certain they were cutting costs, having poor quality control, all that. I just don't think they INTENDED or SET OUT to harm or jeopardize the public. Glass empty/ glass full issue of people/companies & their motivations I guess.
My thanks, though, to HOMMELL, eliz, Richard and everyone for your notes & recommendations... because I will be swapping out our panel at this point. It was not so clear that these panels were THAT suspect to me before. The risk is much too severe. |
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