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Message |
    
jasondc44
Citizen
Username: Jasondc44
Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 1, 2006 - 7:05 pm: | 
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Hi, we had an electrician come by for an estimate today for running power to our detached garage. He told us code was now to run it under ground - I wasn't sure if this is true. Anyone know? Thanks |
Cedar
Citizen
Username: Cedar
Post Number: 200
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 1, 2006 - 8:11 pm: |
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Don't know about code (that you can research on the town's website), but when we ran it to our detached garage, we ran it underground. It sure is a lot prettier, though probably a bit more expensive, having to trench and so on. In the end, you will be happier. |
Jersey_Boy
Citizen
Username: Jersey_boy
Post Number: 1573
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 1, 2006 - 9:01 pm: |
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Oh crap! I want to power up MY detached garage someday. Was this the code in Maplewood or South Orange? Or the state?
J.B. |
Rich
Citizen
Username: Veneto
Post Number: 10
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 2, 2006 - 8:21 am: |
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I had an electrician tell me the same thing about no overhead service to the garage. One electrician wanted $825 to run the wire from the pannel to the garage, but I would have to dig the trench. Another wanted $600 to make the connections with me running the wire from the pannel to the garage via a PVC tube attached to the underside of the deck. Since I can't stomach the cost to have it done we're leaving the garage in the dark. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 12296
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 2, 2006 - 8:38 am: |
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Rich, did that include the cost of a sub-panel in the garage and putting in GFI outlets per code? |
Rich
Citizen
Username: Veneto
Post Number: 13
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 2, 2006 - 8:54 am: |
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the sub pannel is already in. the garage is mostly wired as there was once overhead service. the last owner felt the overhead service was unsightly, so he tore it down leaving the garage and deck without power. he also was running a household with four people off extension cords and ungrounded 2 prong outlets. i was going to finish wiring the garage myself, i just needed a "licensed professional" to complete the connection of the wires. |
sac
Supporter
Username: Sac
Post Number: 3641
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 2, 2006 - 9:28 am: |
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When we rebuilt our garage about ten years ago, we were told the same thing. The old garage had been connected by an overhead wire, but when they built the new one, they had to bury the wiring. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 12297
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 2, 2006 - 9:55 am: |
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The price seems high for a couple of hours work. |
Robert O'Connor
Citizen
Username: Local24
Post Number: 58
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 2, 2006 - 10:05 am: |
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First off I believe the price(s) seem fair. Second, the code does support it running underground. Third, you can do this yourself.
If you are the owner of a single family, owner occupied house, you can do EVERYTHING yourself, provided you secure the necessary permits of course.
Good Luck! |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 8792
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 2, 2006 - 11:24 am: |
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The wiring must be in an underground conduit, 18 inches down. You don't really want to pay the electrician at his/her rates to dig the trench. |
J L Bryant
Citizen
Username: Jeffbryant
Post Number: 40
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 2, 2006 - 12:51 pm: |
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This per discussion with NJ DIVISION OF CODES AND STANDARDS, Code Assistance Unit [Contact: (609)984-7609]
www.state.nj.us/dca/codes/forms/xls/telephone_directory.shtml
Apparently, electrical service to a detached garage (residential) does NOT need to be run underground (per NJUCC~NEC 2005~NFPA 70). It is at the discretion of the owner (and MOST opt to run it underground). IF it is run above ground, it must comply with height clearances, etc., etc. IF it is run underground, the cable must be installed 18" min below grade (can be direct-burial cable & does NOT have to be in conduit) and 'protected' only if it comes up exterior to the garage (meaning, in conduit, metal or plastic). Also, all receptacles within must be GFCI-protected.
As for the prices.... well, depending on how much you DIY, I guess the prices quoted certainly aren't great, but maybe you can negotiate.
And for Mr. O'Conner...ummm... Robert, though I too fully subscribe to a it's my own little kingdom viewpoint.... actually, there are certain portions of electrical, plumbing, and structural work that are required to be designed/installed by a licensed professional, even when you take out the permits yourself. It's the law, and it's not optional (AND it is that way for 'your' - the public's - safety.... just refer above to Rich's example of what the previous owner did to reinforce why codes are for public safety). Building code requirements & town ordinances are not "in support of" performing construction, they are minimums that must be met. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 8800
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 2, 2006 - 1:01 pm: |
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I'm not so sure that Maplewood doesn't require the conduit, regardless of State code. |
J L Bryant
Citizen
Username: Jeffbryant
Post Number: 41
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 2, 2006 - 1:28 pm: |
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greentree - municipalities cannot lawfully impose-more-than/supercede the state minimums on construction issues (defined under NJUCC); zoning, landuse, noise, etc. .. yes. Construction, no.
This, of course, is not to say that the inspector won't sign off if you don't do what he dictates..... but under state laws, local towns may not supercede the state construction requirements. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 8803
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 2, 2006 - 1:42 pm: |
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Interesting.......
I know that my electrician uses conduit for this type of thing and he is a stickler for doing things to code. I guess that I just assumed it was a code thing. Although, to me it makes sense to give it the extra level of protection. |
gj1
Citizen
Username: Gj1
Post Number: 387
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 3, 2006 - 12:56 am: |
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I beg to differ, JL. Running power to a detached garage can be performed by the homeowner.
Also Bobk, code does not require a sub-panel for a residential detached garage. It does, however, require a means of disconnect, but this can be as simple as an ordinary snap switch. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 12302
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 3, 2006 - 4:02 am: |
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I don't think I implied it did. But if I was going to do this I would want atleast two 20 amp circuits. If you are going to electrify a garage my assumption is that you are going to use it as a workshop, not just to store the car.
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J L Bryant
Citizen
Username: Jeffbryant
Post Number: 45
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 3, 2006 - 12:33 pm: |
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gj1 - I never said a homeowner couldn't do it. But "running power" entails quite a lot of possible scenarios. At the very least, taking out a permit and having the work reviewed/approved by the town would be required, I think (that is if one does things.... shall we just say 'legally'?). As for a sub-panel being required, I didn't ask DCA that issue (but you could... or did you?) but again from a design standpoint, that actually would depend to what extent one does to "run power". And since I'd echo BobK's vision... and that surely would be 'better' or prudent to be as a sub-panel. |
Robert O'Connor
Citizen
Username: Local24
Post Number: 61
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 3, 2006 - 2:23 pm: |
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JL Bryant, I think we are on the same page when it comes to licensing and who is allowed to do what. I just don't fully understand what your reply was implying.
I replied to your post but it was deleted for some reason.
I'll ask again.
Please show me where it states in the regulations where an owner occupied single family homeowner cannot perform this installation.
As an example, I installed my entire 200 amp service myself and had the electrical sub-code official sumbit the cut in card to the utility, and I'm not a licensed electrican.
I agree that not everyone is cut out to do this work and that safeguards must be employed to insure the safety of not only the current occupants, but for future occupancy as well. However, this is not "rocket science". An applicant applies for a permit and must submit details that the plan reviewer must approve or deny in whole or in part and then a field inspector passes or fails it. I must be missing something, because I was unable to find it within the regulations. |
Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 1127
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 3, 2006 - 3:35 pm: |
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OK, hypothetically, what if a homeowner ran their own electric to a detached shed. And what if it was buried, within a conduit, more than 18" and powers an interior lightbulb and a single GFI outlet with a toggle switch - if the switch is off there is no electric to the lightbulb or the outlet. AND, what if the homeowner didn't get a permit or have the work inspected.
Will this be a problem re: a potential sale of the home?
Is it possible to, in hindsight, get a permit and have an inspection done (oh, concrete steps have since been installed in a nearby garden over the buried electric wire.) And will the wire have to be dug-up to show the depth it is buried? And if so, will there be a fine?
This is all hypothetical, of course! |
J L Bryant
Citizen
Username: Jeffbryant
Post Number: 49
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 4, 2006 - 11:22 am: |
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Robert - I would agree we're on the same page, but I didn't try to imply anything. All I was cautioning above was exactly what I wrote: ..certain portions of.. work... permits yourself. To paraphrase... for ANY construction effort to be LEGAL, inclusion of licensed professionals will occur at some point in the project..... no mystery, no implying, no sarcasm.
Andddddd, Robert, I'm pretty sure you show exactly this point in your example: ...had the electrical sub-code official submit the cut in card to the utility, and I'm not a licensed electrican. I'm gathering that the utility won't cut-in service until the installation is "signed-off" by a licensed electrician or authorized individual (in this case, the electrical official/inspector). So, you install, he verifies, on goes the juice & things are good. Great!!! I sincerely fully applaude your confidence & aptitude, 'cause, man, electrical work scares the pants off me.
I also agree that physical construction is not 'rocket science', and can certainly be performed by 'handy' or capable people (surely evidenced by my own efforts  ). And, yes, sure it's a free country & we all live in our own 'kingdoms' & life is fine.
So, I never EVER said that a homeowner couldn't physically perform the work themselves (nor, I agree, does the law say that either). But for the project/effort to get completed -legally- a licensed professional must be in the mix. That's all..... or conditions like Rich's example or Pdg's hypothesis happen....
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J L Bryant
Citizen
Username: Jeffbryant
Post Number: 50
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 4, 2006 - 11:33 am: |
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And Pdg.... absolutely no disparaging meant at all.... personally, I wouldn't even think twice about that line.... errrrr, hypothesis. If you put in it correctly (correct gauge, correct conduit, snug connections, etc.) it's no worry at all. It'll never trigger a sale concern. Though I can't speak for the town regs or bldg dept.,.... since it's hypothetical anyway I can't see bothering w/ permit at this point....
Unless I buy your house.  |
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