| Author |
Message |
    
colleen
Citizen
Username: Bean2005
Post Number: 51
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 3:59 pm: | 
|
So we had our heating system looked at and the block is cracked so PSE&G gave us a great big red failed tag. UGH! Now we need to replace it. Can I have some recommendations for a plumber in the area that can do it and the approximate cost.
Thanks so much!
|
ttwizard
Citizen
Username: Ttwizard
Post Number: 35
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 4:07 pm: |
|
You can use a plumber; I've heard good things about Gateway Plumbing or you could let PSE&G do it. If you're concerned about initial cost, PSE&G offers a plan to offset the total cost over 12 months.
I've seen similar offers from other plumbers, so get quotes. Do it now while it's warm, otherwise the price will go up dramatically. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 15337
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 4:48 pm: |
|
Gateway is excellent. You can't find a better plumber. 973-762-1000
We've also had excellent dealings with Premier Plumbing and Heating. They installed our new boiler two years ago. 973-509-4422
|
emmie
Supporter
Username: Emmie
Post Number: 837
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 6:05 pm: |
|
How old is the boiler? Check with your homeowners ins.
This just happened to me a couple of years ago. I had a Well-McLain that was only about 15 years old. The low water shut-off valve failed and the boiler cracked. I had new boiler, pipes etc. installed. The best part, homeowners paid for all but my deductable. So you should check and see what is the cause of the problem, in other words, why did it crack and check with your homeowners. They will send someone out to verify the problem. Same thing happened to my friend and her homeowners paid also. BTW, I have oil heat. |
J L Bryant
Citizen
Username: Jeffbryant
Post Number: 69
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 9:25 am: |
|
I believe you're roughly looking at between $4K to $10K, totally depending on the size of boiler (well, & quality thereof...). Great suggestion on the insurance possibly covering, though... (wish I'd thought of that when replacing 'the beast'!) |
colleen
Citizen
Username: Bean2005
Post Number: 52
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 12:32 pm: |
|
I will call up my insurance - that would be great if it is covered. I dont know how old it is as we just moved a year ago.
I will give these plumbers a call.
Thansk so much! |
Ibeme
Citizen
Username: Ibeme
Post Number: 153
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 12:49 pm: |
|
We replaced our Utica with a Weill-McLean in March(?) and our plumbr, Brien McLoughlin turned me on to the Insurance Co. paying for it. Total cost was a hair under $6k for a 250,000 BTU boiler. It turns out that i didn't need one that big, but that's what we got. |
Robert O'Connor
Citizen
Username: Local24
Post Number: 79
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 6:27 pm: |
|
Ibeme,
You wrote, "It turns out that i didn't need one that big, but that's what we got".
250,000 BTU is a verylarge boiler for a residential application. When you say "that big", how big should it have been? Did the contractor perform a heatloss calculation?
Forced hydronic boilers are sized to the heatloss of the structure, and are performed by measuring the entire house, room by room, and window by window with factors being used for the windows, doors and insulation (or lack thereof).
Steam boilers, on the other hand are sized by the connected load. The heatloss calculation for this is determined by EDR (this simply means you have to determine the square foot of steam required at each room terminal and then add up the values). If a heating contractor comes to give you an estimate on a boiler replacement and does not perform one of the appropriate methods, SHOW THEM THE DOOR.
If you need additional info, please don't hesitate to ask.
Or
You can go here http://forums.invision.net/index.cfm?CFApp=2
Good Luck! |
Master Plvmber
Citizen
Username: Master_plvmber
Post Number: 545
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 7:42 pm: |
|
This has been covered extensively in winters past on this forum.
I know I have to get a life but it bothers me to no end when I hear (read) a statement like "It turns out that i didn't need one that big, but that's what we got" said so matter-of-factly.
YOU GOT THE WRONG ONE!!!
Why are you OK with that?
It's wrong! It's costing you money!
The installers couldn't get the size of the boiler right. How good could the rest of the installation be?
All hail the lowest bidder!!!
Master Plvmber |
Dennis J O'Neill
Citizen
Username: Plungy
Post Number: 75
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 7:05 am: |
|
No kidding, and this boiler is what an EGH 95, a 105? Installed for under 6K? Not only did the customer get screwed. The plumber screwed himself. I wonder if she is right about the rating. This must be an 18 room victorian in Montrose. |
Politicalmon
Citizen
Username: Politicalmon
Post Number: 249
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 10:29 am: |
|
We have a 450K BTU Weil-McLain steam boiler installed 5 years ago. Our original boiler was a 250K BTU and constantly running during the severe part of the winter. Our new boiler though more of a commerical unit warms the house in record time and we now don't experience the constant cycling of the undersized unit. We have a 14 room Victorian in Montrose.
The cost of our boiler replacement was $8K and performed by Tom Hall of South Orange - Tom also did all the Sloan Street commerical properties when they were built. |
Horse
Citizen
Username: Grunt
Post Number: 20
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 10:55 am: |
|
What ever you do do not let them install a UTICA Boiler.
I had one and it lasted 6 years and cracked now I hear that is not uncommon. |
David Cataneo
Citizen
Username: Dave_cataneo
Post Number: 126
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 10:57 am: |
|
"Our original boiler was a 250K BTU and constantly running during the severe part of the winter."
Politicalmom, That's what it was designed to do. With 450K heating your house, I'll bet it heats up quick - or at least it better, for what it's costing you. Did the installer even look at the radiators? I'm assuming you have steam, but either way, you're boiler is incredibly oversized. Let me put it this way - I'll bet you wouldn't drive a Hummer, but you've got one(if not a cement truck) in your basement.
|
Politicalmon
Citizen
Username: Politicalmon
Post Number: 251
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 4:11 pm: |
|
David,
I have to disagree with you concerning the sizing. Yes, we do have steam heat using radiators as the heating conductor. Before we upgraded our boiler, our original boiler was always in the ON mode - certain radiators in our house never retained a high level of warmth - My wife (who worked on her PHD in Mechanical Engineering from Cornell and is a wiz at Thermo) worked on this problem every winter changing out the pinhole valves on the radiators trying to get the right balance – she would get close but it just never worked right.
It just seemed like that original boiler never had enough steam to get the house warm and keep it warm; it was always playing catch up. Once the oversized boiler went in - all the radiators get toasty and we don't have to concern ourselves with why radiator #13 appears non operational? They all work, all the time - the boiler turns on in the early AM and is off by the time I'm in the kitchen having breakfast. No more irritating sounds emanating from the basement - flame on - flame off – wondering if the thing was going to blow. The other problem is that since there was no automatic low water shutoff during one of those frigid Alberta clippers the water ran low during the middle of the night and the unit cracked.
The unit may be oversized but it does the job and more – another benefit is that we are in the initial stages of adding on to the house and the extra square footage should be easily handled by this unit.
|
MEC
Citizen
Username: Mec
Post Number: 185
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 10:09 pm: |
|
We had Gateway replace our boiler 2 winters ago. They were efficient, clean and very reliable.
You can't go wrong by having them do any work for you. |
JC
Citizen
Username: Demolitionman
Post Number: 50
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 10:55 pm: |
|
BOILERS REMOVED
www.claytondemo.biz |
David Cataneo
Citizen
Username: Dave_cataneo
Post Number: 127
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 11:13 pm: |
|
Politicalmom,
I understand what your saying, and if you're happy - fine. But while I haven't got a PhD in mechanical engineering, I do have more than a passing acquaintance with hydronics myself and I'm telling you there aren't more than 2 or 3 houses in Maplewood or South Orange that require a 450,000 Btu boiler. You said yourself, at 250K, you'd get it close. So, without singling you out, all I (and, I believe, MasterP, Dennis and Robert) am saying is - why not size it right, and why not install it right? Overkill can hide a lot of sins,if you don't mind paying for the extra fuel, but there's a lot more to a heating system than BTU's. |
Robert O'Connor
Citizen
Username: Local24
Post Number: 81
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 10:15 am: |
|
Politicalmon,
Steam boilers are sized to the EDR, period. If the radiation wasn't factored in, then, you have the wrong size. I'd check with Ms. Politicalmon on this one, and I'll say this, if the original 250K boiler heated the house without shutting down on low water, it was installed incorrectly based on your claim, or there was a serious system problem (venting issue) that wasn't addressed. I can tell you that I don't size per BTU, but by square footage of steam required. I can safely say that , if you would like, I could perform a house wide detailed calculation for you and make recommendations that would, (based on the info you provided) save you over 30% (or more) on your heating bill. What do you say? If I'm wrong, you pay nothing, If I'm right you can pay me the difference of what you save in a year based on degree days.
I too am not an engineer |
Master Plvmber
Citizen
Username: Master_plvmber
Post Number: 546
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 11:22 am: |
|
You're a brave man, Mr. O'Connor.
That 30% (or more) claim could be a tough one to fulfill.
As I'm sure you know, there are a lot of factors that determine fuel usage besides system fitness and firing time.
And as far as your statement disclosing your "not an engineer" status: I'm sure that's to your advantage.
We field people get this stuff right much more often than most PEs I've come across.
We wouldn't dream of using a 50% "fudge factor".
They often do. And so there goes efficiency.
It's called guaranteeing you get paid with a little C.Y.A. built in.
Master Plvmber |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 12435
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 11:32 am: |
|
Just curious. I know that there are now computer programs to do heat loss calculations for hot air heat and central a/c systems. This saves a lot of time, since doing this with a paper and pencil can, I am told, take hours. Rumor has it that a lot of plumbers and HVAC guys used to estimate to save the time and that led to larger units than were necessary.
Are there programs for steam heat? Or is this still an art as much as a science?
|
Robert O'Connor
Citizen
Username: Local24
Post Number: 82
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 11:33 am: |
|
When I said "recommendation", You were gonna be it, given the fact you invited me here. Thats also a broad statement. Insulation, correct EDR, venting, sealing the envelope, system pressure, pipe covering, windows are all part of the recipe. I never said the fix was gonna be cheap . I finished a 50 family in Kearny and recently applied the totals (I saved close to 50%). I'm very confident, not cocky. |
Master Plvmber
Citizen
Username: Master_plvmber
Post Number: 547
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 12:11 pm: |
|
BobK,
There is currently no software I know of to calculate EDR (equivalent direct radiation). It must be done with a ruler and pencil, still to this day.
Master Plvmber |
Robert O'Connor
Citizen
Username: Local24
Post Number: 83
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 12:43 pm: |
|
Its Equivalence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalence_of_Direct_Radiation_%28EDR%29
Did you ever have that grand opening ? |
mjc
Citizen
Username: Mjc
Post Number: 1281
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 12:53 pm: |
|
Going back to the original question -
When our boiler cracked last winter, even the PSE&G guy said that PSE&G's price would be exorbitant. We got two estimates, came out within about $100 of each other, and had Gateway install based on scheduling convenience. The service was great, even though it was Dec. and they must have been busy. Old boiler out, new one in, felt confident about the installation (old boiler connections always looked like sort of a kloodge). They checked/adjusted all the radiators too, and came back promptly when one of the radiators started leaking.
Cost was about $5,000 for a typical mid-size old S.O. house, 2 levels, 3 br, 1.5 ba. Gas-fired steam heat. |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4710
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 20, 2006 - 8:38 am: |
|
If the old 250k boiler was operating at reduced efficiency due to accumulation of scale over the years, it could explain why it was unable to heat all of the radiators in the house.
Also, if I am not mistaken, steam systems are bit funny in that on really cold days, even a well-installed and tuned system can struggle to heat the radiators at the farthest reaches of the system. In my house, I suspect one reason for this is that because the mains (yes, they are insulated) and risers are running through cold or uninsulated wall spaces, they lose a lot of steam in transit on really cold days. |
colleen
Citizen
Username: Bean2005
Post Number: 53
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 3:01 pm: |
|
thanks for the recommendation - i will cbe calling plumbers this week to get estimates.
Questions though - why did homeowners pay for the new boiler? What reason would they need to do this?
|
sportsnut
Citizen
Username: Sportsnut
Post Number: 2553
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 4:05 pm: |
|
We had Gateway install our new boiler last September when we changed from oil to gas. Clayton Demo removed the old boiler and Gateway installed the new. Took them two days and cost a shade over 5,500 (if I remember correctly). We paid to change because of a leak in our oil tank. We chose not to deal with putting a new tank in the basement or on the side of the house and we were fortunate enough to already have gas running into the house.
We were very pleased with both Clayton and Gateway and would recommend them again. |
Crazy_quilter
Citizen
Username: Crazy_quilter
Post Number: 398
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 7:40 pm: |
|
we asked our homeowner's insurance about coverage when we had to replace ours this winter. they said no. that they used to cover it, but that they were wrong to do so (!)
they said our furnace was old and we needed a new one and it had nothing to do with them.
|
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page