| Author |
Message |
    
Pippi
Supporter
Username: Pippi
Post Number: 2781
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 5:35 pm: | 
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Some time ago I got a recommendation on this board for a contractor to do demolition, waterproofing and put 2 sump pumps in our basement, in anticipation of redoing the space.
We hired him and the work was done. However, about 2 weeks after the work was done, we realized a pipe was left leaking (not sure if that was the contractor's fault or not) and water was collecting in an area just next to our new sump pump.
Our clean, dry basement had a small pond in it! It seems that the ground next to the sump pump is lower than the pump, so water was collecting there. My husband used a broom to sweep the water into the pump to dry the floor and then he fixed the pipe. The basement has been dry since, but we wanted the contractor to come back and see what he could do to make the ground level with the pump.
We contacted the contractor, explained the situation and he agreed to come fix it. That was about two weeks ago. he never called back but we got a call earlier this week from the company that he subcontracts for. They agreed to send some men in to fix the problem (turns out they were sending the original guy)
He left a message last night asking us to call him to clearly explain what needed to be done so he could tell his workers. This morning, my husband left a detailed message. I called the contractor this morning before 10a to ask him a question and before I could speak he proceeded to tear me apart.
He was beyond rude to me, raising his voice and stopping just short (barely) of telling me I am an idiot. They didn't lay the floor; we should have known that the sump pump takes care of ground water and not surface water; why did you wait two months after the job was completed to call (it was two weeks) blah blah blah. I got very upset and told him that I am a customer who doesn't understand and it's his job to explain it to me. He very halfheartedly told me that he's having a bad morning. No excuse for treating me so poorly. I asked him to call my husband and tell him what he told me.
(FWIW, a coworker came over to me after the call and expressed shock over how I was treated -- and he only heard my half of the conversation)
It is 5:30. No workmen showed up at or house and my husband never received a phone call explaining why what we were complaining about couldn't be fixed. (I subsequently found out that when my husband called the main company, they were rude to him, so there is no recourse for us complaining to them further)
Needless to say, we spent quite a bit of money and are now left with a very bad feeling from this contractor. In addition, once we finish the basement, I am concerned about what will happen if there is any surface water.
I just wanted to vent. This is my first of many interactions with contractors in the coming months and I am feeling put off the whole remodeling thing already!
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SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 656
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 8:44 pm: |
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Sorry to hear it. The guy is a huge jerk. Unfortunately, you aren't the only person to have the contractor from hell in your home. Supposedly, if you file a complaint with the Dept. of Consumer Affairs, they will investigate.
But also try calling Ethan Campbell of Germer Construction, 201-933-3396. He took a prior subcontractor type by the scruff of the neck and got them to deliver even though he wasn't part of the job originally and wasn't paid to straighten out a previous problem. You just don't come across people like him often here. I even hesitate to list his name because he might be inundated by people who have had bad experiences with dishonest contractors.
He is one of the most honest people I've met and highly competent to boot.
If you do contact him, I'd be interested to know what you think.
Good luck. |
JC
Citizen
Username: Demolitionman
Post Number: 51
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 11:02 pm: |
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Who was the contractor? |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 12430
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 4:40 am: |
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The contractor freaking out was absolutely wrong. However, if you had a perimeter drain (aka French drain) installed sloping the floor towards the sump wouldn't have been part of the job in most cases. The perimeter drains collect water that seeps in through the walls or at the base of the walls and directs it to the sump pump. |
Jersey_Boy
Citizen
Username: Jersey_boy
Post Number: 1640
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 8:03 am: |
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Bob K,
Very clearly and calmly and politely explained.
J.B. |
Bklyngirl
Citizen
Username: Bklyngirl
Post Number: 190
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, August 20, 2006 - 4:19 pm: |
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Pippi: Please PL me with the name of the contractor.
Thanks.
bklyngirl |
Kibbegirl
Citizen
Username: Kibbegirl
Post Number: 711
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 20, 2006 - 10:12 pm: |
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I need to vent a general question if I may. I read MOL whenever I can and make posts and take advice. Why is it that when situations such as the unfortunate one Pippi had, the business is not mentioned? I don't think Pippi is wrong in venting the complaint, as a matter of fact, it's because of complaints like this that make MOL work for the us, the homeowner/consumer. Is it so bad to post the name of the business but with a preface of something like ... "this was my experience and it may not be the experience of all"? I too would like to know the name of the business as this is a project Mr. Kibbergirl and I have discussed off/on for years. I really don't see the harm. Any one? |
daylaborer
Citizen
Username: Upondaroof
Post Number: 900
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 20, 2006 - 10:56 pm: |
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" I really don't see the harm. Any one?"
The harm comes fom the fact that you don't truly know the whole story, only one side and that's biased as well. Recommendations (good or bad) don't always play out like you would like. Unless you were out and out screwed by a contractor (and I don't believe the original poster was) bad reviews are better discussed in private conversations. |
Kibbegirl
Citizen
Username: Kibbegirl
Post Number: 714
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 8:11 am: |
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Daylaborer, I think you're post is a bit harsh and I think it's because you've taken the position as a "Daylaborer" and not a homeowner. I'm not out to get anyone or cause harm to a business. I use MOL not only for great "conversation" but to get the skinny on companies that are hard to deal with and/or do poor work. You said that the story is one-sided and that we don't know the whole story, and I agree with that. But stating that unless someone was really "screwed" by a contractor, that should be the only reason to list the company name is not fair to the consumer. In your professional opinion, when is the homeowner "screwed" by a contractor? At what financial point? At what point of not returning calls, screaming at clients, doing shoddy work and refusing to make repairs, etc.? I'm also aware that many MOL'ers say nasty things about contractors, painters, etc., that may be extremely exaggerated and untrue. I think you have to trust the poster and then have other MOL'ers chime in if they believe that opinion is false and exaggerated. |
Bklyngirl
Citizen
Username: Bklyngirl
Post Number: 191
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 8:37 am: |
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I'm with you, kibbegirl.
Daylaborer: If you really are a daylaborer, step out of those shoes for a moment and step into the shoes of a homeowner.
bklyngirl |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 12440
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 9:16 am: |
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Pippi and Notehead are amongst my favorite MOL couples, so it is hard to write this.
Basically, as I said before most perimeter drain jobs don't include sloping the floor to the sump. The contractor behaved badly and possibly failed to explain exactly what work he was going to do (what does the estimate and contract say?). Since the water on the floor wasn't seepage, it was from a loose pipe, I doubt if water in the central part of the basement is a problem at Pip's and Note's house and quite possibly this wasn't covered in the contract.
Again, yelling and screaming isn't right. However, as UpontheRoof says, there are two sides to every story.
I think the moral of this story is knowing what you are contracting for and who you are dealing with.
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SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 671
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 9:37 am: |
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I agree with Kibbiegirl. There seems to be very little in the way of state regulation of contractors, so consumers sharing information with one another is fair game, even necessary. Everyone it seems has had disappearing contractors. Who wants to waste time on them? I don't have it to waste and if someone who seems trustworthy indicates they have had a problem, of whatever kind, with a contractor, I certainly appreciate knowing.
Having said that, if people aren't willing to post the names of contractors they've had trouble with, you can't force them to. But it is helpful to know and people can judge for themselves what to make of it. |
Pippi
Supporter
Username: Pippi
Post Number: 2783
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 9:39 am: |
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Thanks Bob K - we like you too 
A case can certainly be made for the fact that we were uneducated consumers. That does not in any way negate the other fact that I was treated poorly.
Because I need to share some of the blame for my ignorance, I will not post the contractor's name. I am not out to harm any one's business. If I felt that we had really been "screwed", I might feel otherwise.
One other thing to bear in mind is that I got yelled at the morning he was to come by and fix a problem. Apparently, according to his argument, there was never a problem for him to fix. Yet somehow he agreed to come fix it. That's a bit confusing to me as a consumer.
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SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 672
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 9:56 am: |
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Pippi, I just read your description again. I have also been advised to pay by credit card so that when the job is not completed as promised, you can reverse the charges. There really is no excuse for the main contractor passing you off to the sub. That's his (main or general contractor's) job. Neither you nor your husband should have had to deal with any subcontractors, including the drain guy; that's what you paid the general contractor to do. So it sounds like both contractors, main or general and subcontractor failed to perform as they should have and the sub got abusive when you objected. E. Campbell would probably help you deal with both. There probably are others who would too but I don't know who else might. You could try calling an architect for advice about finding another good general contractor to help you. |
Pippi
Supporter
Username: Pippi
Post Number: 2785
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 9:59 am: |
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SO Rising - calling him a subcontactor may have been erroneous. The main company is a national company that contracts the work in different areas to local contractors. For lack of a better word, I called him a subcontractor, but that's probably not the right term.
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 12441
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 10:01 am: |
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Pippi, you defined a sub-contractor. The company that did the work for you was a sub-contractor by any definition. |
Pippi
Supporter
Username: Pippi
Post Number: 2786
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 10:10 am: |
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SO Rising
We didn't hire a GC for this job, although we are planning to hire one for the build out of the space. We didn't think we need one for the demo and the waterproofing, athough in hindsight it may have helped us avoid some of the misunderstanding we experienced.
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Amie Brockway-Metcalf
Citizen
Username: Amie
Post Number: 562
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 10:15 am: |
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For what it's worth, Pippi's contractor needed us to move a car so he could get out his dumpster, and he hollered at my mother-in-law like we had parked on top of his beloved kitty cat, and not in a perfectly legal space across the street from our own house.
I've had good and bad experiences with contractors and home day cares. I'll always post that I'll share my story via PL; I don't need to defend my posts with a bunch of people who attack me for posting my own experience. I write it up once and retain the email to send out over and over. |
Pippi
Supporter
Username: Pippi
Post Number: 2787
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 11:00 am: |
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Amie - I had no idea he was rude about it! I wish I had known....
sorry! |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 9055
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 11:08 am: |
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I had a pretty horrendous nightmare renovation experience a couple years ago. I had been blogging the renovation (when things were going well) but when new walls and the shower collapsed after 4 months, I had the blog removed and then posted, mostly to ask for advice, not to vent. Although, I did get a lot of that in as well.
I never, to this day, have posted the name of the contractor. There were a lot of problems that he was not capable of making right. He was unable to do some of the things that he said he could. However, there were things that were done nicely. At the end of the day, everyone has their strengths/weaknesses and good/bad days. I never wanted to put this guy out of business; I only wanted compensation for the person I had to bring in (to the tune of $12k) to fix his work.
In fact, the only thing that has precluded a lawsuit is that I've been dealing with family matters that take precedence.
Now, if someone PLs me and asks me if XXXX was my contractor, I will answer honestly. I will tell the good/bad and what I perceive to be the weaknesses and what went wrong.
Unless someone is an out and out thief, there are two sides to every story. |
daylaborer
Citizen
Username: Upondaroof
Post Number: 901
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 1:10 pm: |
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"Daylaborer: If you really are a daylaborer, step out of those shoes for a moment and step into the shoes of a homeowner."
Bklyngirl, I've been wearing them homeowner shoes for a long time, almost as long as I was a contractor, so I tend to see things in a different perspective. As a home owner, I've been screwed over on occasion and I've had contractors that did great work, but were sloppy on the cleanup, the follow up, etc.I wouldn't have either type back to my home, but I wouldn't bad mouth them in a public forum, because (1) it leaves me open to a slander suit and (2) it's just not right. My problem may not become your problem, just as my recommendation to you might turn out to be the contractor from hell. I would be happy though,to discuss these contractors privately.
While I was in business (over 30 yrs), I was never sued or threatened with legal action. I'm proud of the fact that I was able to take the family business into it's 70th year before retiring. There were certainly disputes and misunderstandings with customers and some of them became guite heated. Sometimes I had a chip on my shoulder and sometimes the customer drew first, but everything was usually resolved on the spot. I do know that yelling doesn't usually get you too far and if one starts then the other usually does, too.
Kibbegirl, you asked for opinions, I gave you mine, not yours. If it seemed harsh, I'm sorry. I'm still a bit rough around the edges after running roofing gangs for most of my adult life. I still find myself reaching for my gun and whip when I drive by a roofing job!
Pippi, rant on babe and I think you took the higher road for not naming names here.
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Amie Brockway-Metcalf
Citizen
Username: Amie
Post Number: 563
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 1:32 pm: |
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Pippi: no worries! |
Bklyngirl
Citizen
Username: Bklyngirl
Post Number: 192
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 1:52 pm: |
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You're assuming that every bad post on this site about contractors is regarding something as minimal as sloppy clean ups. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about situations similar or worse to what Pippi went through.
In any event, while I agree that there are 2 sides to every story and that one should be careful on sites like these when recommending (or not) certain contractors, that nonetheless should not stop anyone from posting their really bad experiences. Afterall, that's, in part, the purpose sites like these.
bklyngirl |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3728
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 2:33 pm: |
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While we haven't mentioned the of the lame-o waterproofing company or its (expletive)-head subcontractor, I would like to mention that a friend of mine who has been one of the best plumbers in the area for many years was just at our house and gave me his opinion (which I fully trust) that the waterproofing crew did a pretty sloppy job. We thought that we had exercised due diligence because we asked for references and people in the neighborhood had been very happy with them, but now I realize that few people have a need to use a waterproofing company more than once or twice in their lives and may have no idea what the difference is between a quality job and one that is slapdash.
When the work was done, I was pleased that the crew (which, for what its worth, had only one English-speaking member -- I hope they were all working legally) finished the job so quickly. Now I'm wondering why we have a long run of exposed PVC carrying the effluent from one of the sump pumps. The second pump leads to another exposed bit of pvc (somewhat hidden in a bush) which empties onto the ground about two feet from the house.
Clearly, my own inexperience was a big factor in the poor results we ended up with, but, again, he had been recommended and how often do most people get this kind of work done, anyway? So, we won't be recommending this guy, and anyone who wishes to know who it was can email Pippi or myself and we'll be glad to tell you. |
daylaborer
Citizen
Username: Upondaroof
Post Number: 902
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 3:06 pm: |
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Bklyngirl, I assume nothing. Maybe I didn't phrase my reply clearly. I have been genuinely screwed at times by others to the point that I could crack a head or two. And I have been nickle dimed by little f#$kups, but the job came out OK. I might rant about both, but I'm not naming names.
I'm all for venting, but what if a contractor posted on MOL about a deadbeat customer and named them in the post? Would that be fair or ethical? I'm not trying to be confrontational, just voicing my opinion. Take it for what its worth to you. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 679
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 5:47 pm: |
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daylaborer, your suggestion that people could be sued for slander because they mention a bad contractor on a site like this is silly at best, but more accurately is just wrong. Slander involves FALSE allegations. As such, it is irrelevant to what pippi reported, assuming she is telling the truth. There is no reason to doubt her story in my view.
Amie B-M, I haven't seen "a bunch of people attack" anyone on this thread but several who have tried to help pippi, as she seemed to request by posting her story. But that's your private eccentricity I suppose. |
Dennis J O'Neill
Citizen
Username: Plungy
Post Number: 76
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 6:43 pm: |
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Checked out the problem for these nice folks while doing some work on thier heating system today. There's a little 4" deep by 18" wide low spot less than 2 feet from the sump pit that was installed, in an area where the concrete appears to have been opened and patched again recently. A $5.00 PVC floor drain, 2 feet of 2" PVC pipe, run into the pit, and a bag of Sakrete will make the problem go bye bye and provide a place to hose down the floor in future.
Could have been easily done with the pit installation but probably fell under the "Ees no my yob" clause. |
Amie Brockway-Metcalf
Citizen
Username: Amie
Post Number: 564
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 7:15 pm: |
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Uh, I was talking about my own past experiences, SORising. But thanks for proving my point that people will pick a fight over everything. |
eliz
Supporter
Username: Eliz
Post Number: 1701
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 7:16 pm: |
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SOrising - I'm sure Amie can speak for herself but I think what she meant is that it is very common on MOL that when people post about negative experiences with service providers it can often set off a flurry of counter posts. Sometimes that's good thing as it reflects other peoples' positive experiences but often it can end up with the original poster getting attacked for posting their real experiences. |
daylaborer
Citizen
Username: Upondaroof
Post Number: 904
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 7:28 pm: |
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Kinda brings out the best in everyone, no?  |
Pippi
Supporter
Username: Pippi
Post Number: 2790
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 10:37 pm: |
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...and this is why we love Dennis!
THANK YOU! |
Bklyngirl
Citizen
Username: Bklyngirl
Post Number: 193
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 7:38 am: |
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Daylaborer: I didn't want to get into any legal arguments here, so I didn't mention it, but SO is correct re: your slander statement.
Second, with all due respect, you're mixing apples and oranges in your recent argument. Equating a contractor's negative posting about a customer with a customer's negative posting about a contractor makes no sense and it doesn't help your cause.
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
BTW: That was very nice of you, Dennis.
bklyngirl |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 12454
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 7:53 am: |
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Since I believe Pips and Notes are going to finish the basement, I am not sure a drain would be the best solution. Just a thought, no criticism, just discussing.
I think the major lesson here is knowing who you are dealing with and making sure that the work is going to be done by the contractors own crews, under his supervison and not by subs. If you are doing a major job, such as finishing a basement, the contractor is going to have to use subs for things such as electric and plumbing and this isn't the same thing. However, asking the GC who he uses as subs probably isn't going to hurt. Many years ago we had an addition built and were happy, overall, with the work, price, etc. However, many years later it turns out the electrical sub screwed up on some of his wiring.
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Camnol
Citizen
Username: Camnol
Post Number: 448
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 8:30 am: |
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As to the possibility of being sued for on-line comments about a business, it's happened before on a list I belonged to:
http://dir.salon.com/story/tech/feature/2002/04/04/aquatic_plants/index.html
It all started with someone complaining about bad service that they received from this company. It's an interesting read, if nothing else. |
Bklyngirl
Citizen
Username: Bklyngirl
Post Number: 195
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 9:03 am: |
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Absolutely. It happens all the time.
However, chances are the case will be dismissed for lack of merit, unless the words spoken or the words written are false and were spoken/written with malicious intent, etc...
bklyngirl |
Camnol
Citizen
Username: Camnol
Post Number: 449
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 9:31 am: |
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Bklyngirl,
Actually, this has been going on since 2002! http://216.168.47.67/psw/Default.html
It's cost a lot of people a lot of money and a lot of stress. The guy is acting as his own lawyer and keeps filing. It's an unusual situation, yes, but it has made me VERY careful of what I say in a public forum because you just never know. I think Pippi was very wise to keep the contractor's name to herself.
People tend to treat internet forums like they are talking to a small group of their best friends, instead of the reality, which is more like stepping up to a microphone at a crowded stadium. Anyway, I digress. Back to the matter at hand. |
Bklyngirl
Citizen
Username: Bklyngirl
Post Number: 196
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 9:39 am: |
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That doesn't surprise me, anymore. It used to, though.
But, you're right. Regardless of who wins or whether a case has merit or not, it's still a pain to have to defend a lawsuit.
bklyngirl
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greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 9080
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 10:24 am: |
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There is a local contractor here in town who used to be asked about quite often in "Please Help" or "Home Fix It". Poster comments overwhelmingly stated that they felt intimidated (your house will blow up in the next 10 seconds if you don't spend $1M fixing this right now) and overpriced (twice as much as 2 or 3 other reputable contractor estimates for the same job).
Most people were unhappy with price and attitude, but satisfied with the service. One poster gave a detail of an experience with this contractor where things did not turn out so well. The poster described the entire process and outcome, not just a "don't hire So&So, they suck."
That contractor threatened to sue Dave & Jamie. Refraining from posting names is also a way of protecting our community and Dave & Jamie from frivolous lawsuits.
It's not a matter of simply "getting it dismissed." The Brothers Ross spent a lot of time & money getting out from under a frivolous lawsuit a couple years ago when a poster uploaded a copy of a public letter that was sent to parents with kids in the high school.
Being a moron and in the wrong does not prevent anyone from filing a suit. |
Slideman
Citizen
Username: Slideman
Post Number: 22
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 11:11 am: |
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What a nice community here on MOL!
Bottom line, sounds like you're keepin' that basement dry, which in notehead's line of work (not the day job) is essential; power cords and amps don't mix with puddles on da floor ...
Dennis' plumbing company did good work for us when we had a new hot H-2-O heater installed. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 698
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 8:21 pm: |
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Well, for any interested, and if one felt unjustly sued or challenged for outrageous reasons, there are things like counter suits used as defenses. Of course, easier to avoid trouble where sensible, but free speech has to count for something also.
Amie B-M, your first post was unclear. Your second belligerent. But I can't really fight with you, despite your best effort to start something. Sorry you were attacked before. Not now. |
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