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Lixouri
Citizen
Username: Lixouri
Post Number: 31
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 10:09 pm: | 
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We are renovating our enclosed porch and want to keep the clapboard that covers what used to be the exterior wall of the house (now interior wall of the porch). My husband wants to strip, sand, and repaint the clapboard, which is actually in relatively good shape; I'm afraid that it has lead paint. House was built in 1952; no idea when this clapboard was last painted, but it could easily be decades ago.
My question is, can laypeople like us do careful enough lead-paint abatement ourselves while stripping the clapboard, and if so, does anyone know how? Is it a question of using chemical stripping rather than a belt sander? How sealed off does the work area have to be from the rest of the house? What other precautions have to be taken? This porch will be our daughter's playroom, so we absolutely want it to be clean and safe. |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4714
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 10:34 pm: |
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You can buy lead test kits at Home Depot and probably Ricciardi. It is easy enough to test for lead - in your case, the lead paint might be in the undercoats, but not the top coats of paint.
If you sand, you should keep any dust from entering the rest of the home, especially if your daughter is still crawling around.
Being a man, I sort of already know the answer to this question, but why not leave well-enough alone. Clean the surface well and put a fresh coat of paint on it. I think that exterior walls that have become interior walls can look pretty nice. |
Elizabeth
Citizen
Username: Momof4peepers
Post Number: 170
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 11:33 pm: |
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Can laypeople do it careful enough? Sure. It's A LOT of work. Do a google search on DIY lead abatement. Rhode Island has the highest concentration of lead-poisoning cases in the country and I seem to recall their department of health having a good web site on how to remove lead paint safely.
Basically you'll want to seal any windows and doors to the main house with plastic on both sides (I remember there's a specific mil plastic recommended, I just can't remember). Use chemical stripper and scrape any paint off. If you have to sand, use a hepa vac (preferrably not your home vac as you could cross-contaminate your house later), then wet mop everything using TSP (NOT the substitute) in one bucket, clear water in the 2nd. Wait 3 days. Do not go into the room. Re-wet mop using TSP and paper towels Toss the paper towels and double bag them. Whenever you're doing work - keep work clothes and shoes out of the main house (or buy those disposable dust suits) shower immediately after doing work. Wet mop the house every day when work is being done.
There is also encapsulating paint you can use over the existing paint. It's like a primer. Then you just put the color you want on. The city of Boston used to offer a course on DIY lead abatement. You might see if the NJ department of health offers a similar course. |
Proud Daddy
Citizen
Username: Proud_daddy
Post Number: 50
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 3:16 pm: |
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One stop shopping. This is the HUD Guidelines for the Evaluation and Control of Lead-Based Paint Hazards in Housing. Basically the Bible.
http://www.hud.gov/offices/lead/guidelines/hudguidelines/index.cfm
Fine Homebuilding had a pretty good Primer on lead safety regarding exterior paint. http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/pages/h00108.asp
Unless you know that all paint including trim had been removed to the base wood, I would treat all exterior paint as lead containing. Tjohn is correct, that the one or two samples you take for lead may not be representative for the entire painted surfaces. For an area that is going to be your daughters play area, I would consider using a paint contractor. Just make sure that they remove to base wood using a PaintShaver exhausted to a HEPA filtration system. Make sure that they put down plastic to collect the bulk drops. You can also follow Elizabeth's recs for containment and cleaning. Seal all windows and AC units will need to shut down and plastic bagged/taped.
For a house, I would not do it without having a paint shaver (around $500) and a HEPA vacuum. IF this was my detached garage, I would do it myself without the paint shaver and rely on handscraping and a HEPA exhausted orbital sander. Plastic on the ground. |
dougw
Citizen
Username: Dougw
Post Number: 859
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 5:31 pm: |
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It is accepted practice in the residential rental industry to incapsulate and NOT abate lead paint. This is also what insurers and local governements support. |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4721
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 5:36 pm: |
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Dougw,
Does encapsulate mean a good coat of paint in this case? |
Proud Daddy
Citizen
Username: Proud_daddy
Post Number: 52
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 8:06 am: |
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Yes - a few coats of paint. To properly encapsulate, the paint below has to be in good condition. This means some scraping and sanding to blend (my garage). It has been my experience that all local painters who offer warranties for their work, only do so if removed down to the bare wood. Besides for a homeowner to not worry about lead for their kids is a big plus.
Insurers and local governments do not have to live in the homes that have been "encapsulated" by being painted over. Insurers and local governements are more worried from the risk associated with an improper paint removal as well as disposal of removed paint as hazardous waste. |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4734
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 8:13 am: |
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The lead hysteria is right up there with the asbestos hysteria. In the overwhelming majority of cases, the victims of lead-poisoning are those living in poorly-maintained older buildings with peeling lead-based paint.
What would be the percentage reduction in lead poisoning if we could apply a proper coat of paint to all of these older homes?
I grew up in a lead-painted house. My kids did the same. The paint was always well-maintained. Neither I nor my children ever suffered lead poisoning. |
sportsnut
Citizen
Username: Sportsnut
Post Number: 2556
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 9:42 am: |
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Back in 1999 when I bought our home and before I knew better I stripped all of the moulding on the first floor down to the bare wood. Most of it was done with a liquid chemical stripper but to get some of the really tough spots I used a belt sander. Then I read about the potential for lead poisoning and wondered and fretted over whether my son's behavioral problems were related somehow to all the renovations we did. Bottom line is I agree with tjohn that the threat is overhyped. We had our son tested and he had normal levels of lead in his blood.
Unfortunately for me my father is slowly dying from asbestosis, but even that was from years of exposure without any protective equipment, working in the sewers of NYC. I think that hysteria is probably a good term.
That said I have heard of a paint removal system that uses infra-red heat to remove paint. I thought I read that it is safe to use on lead paint.
http://www.silentpaintremover.com/
I think its kind of on the expensive side but I know one person who bought one and said that it really works. |
Rudbekia
Citizen
Username: Rudbekia
Post Number: 192
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 10:10 am: |
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tjohn, I don't think people are worried about well-maintained lead paint. People get worried when they want to strip their windows to the beautiful wood beneath and do other renovations and are faced with the hard choice of doing them and almost certainly creating some lead hazard and possibly exposing their young children to that hazard or living with their house the way it is. Think about how much effort we expend getting our children their immunizations, feeding them iron-enriched food, holding their hands as they learn to walk etc. and then contrast that with letting them play in a room where someone sanded one windowsill and then cleaned up rather well but not the way you should when there's lead. Then think that all it would take is a few days of exposure of an infant playing near that area putting hands to mouth all day and ingesting the lead dust that remains resulting in a blood level level of 20 mcg. Good thing that parent was making sure the kid got iron, cuz he's going to need a lot of it to absorb that lead and bring the number down below 10. Unfortunately that scenario isn't hype. But all it probably would have taken to remove the hazard would be cleaning up with a lead cleaner. I don't think it's that big of a deal to just realize that if you're going to create lead dust during any renovation that you have to clean it up properly when you're done and try to contain it as much as possible, particularly when there is an infant who will be playing in the area. |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4735
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 10:50 am: |
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Rudbekia,
I agree. That's why I hate renovation in general and would gladly defer any renovation until my children are past the high risk years. For various reasons, luck being among them, I have never done much sanding in the course of home projects.
Also, children who drink a lot of milk absord less lead than juice drinkers. |
Elizabeth
Citizen
Username: Momof4peepers
Post Number: 173
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 3:35 pm: |
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"The lead hysteria is right up there with the asbestos hysteria. In the overwhelming majority of cases, the victims of lead-poisoning are those living in poorly-maintained older buildings with peeling lead-based paint."
Truly spoken by someone who has no idea what they're saying. This statement is patently false. Most lead-poisoning cases of children are those who are under the age of 6 living in houses being renovated and proper precautions not being taken. To perpetuate the myth that it's only poor people who get lead poisoning harms those who ARE at risk - those who don't know enough to take precautions.
And the level of acceptable lead in the body has been revised downward by the CDC. Prior to the early 80s, the largest culprit of lead poisoning was pollution due to lead gasoline. The average lead level when the majority of us were growing up was 14. NOW it's less than 10. So while Tjohn may not have had lead poisoning under the old guidelines, under the new ones, s/he may actually be classified as having had lead poisoning.
As a mother of two children who HAD lead poisoning, I can tell you, it's better to be safe than sorry. Lead chelation treatment is about as bad as cancer treatment.
Dismissing safe lead safety as "I didn't happen to me, therefore it can't be that bad" is analogus to "I've never had a car accident, therefore my kids don't need to be in carseats."
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tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4738
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 4:16 pm: |
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No, I'm dismissing the hysteria that leads people to have expensive lead removal performed when a proper paint job is sufficient.
As far as safety during home renovations is concerned, that does sound like a important public health message that people need to hear. |
Cubby
Citizen
Username: Cubby
Post Number: 54
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 9:16 pm: |
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This is not a subject I know much about. However, when my daughter was about a year old, she had a false-positive result on a finger prick lead screen. Eventually after having blood drawn we found out she did not have lead poisoning. During that interim period, I did some research and found that lead poisoning more often occurs in babies and todllers who crawl and put things in their mouth. Moreover, I learned that poisoning can result from ingesting as little as 2 or 3 chips. Fortunately, for her and for us, she was fine but I can't tell you how terrified we were until we found that out. |
avamarie
Citizen
Username: Avamarie
Post Number: 35
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 11:47 am: |
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We went through a bathroom remodel when our daughter was an infant and not yet crawling. The contractor was meticulous in containing the dust but it's impossible to keep it completley contained.
At 1 year old, she tested just above normal (10 mcg) for lead and still does to this day. Fortunately, she has no side effects at all, and it isn't even a concern with her pediatrician anymore.
If you have young children, either wait or do it appropiately. |
Susan Crucs
Citizen
Username: Scrucs
Post Number: 2
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 9:28 pm: |
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Before we moved into our house, we noticed a lot of chipping paint on the trim.
We tested the house and garden for lead and found it. We got about 4-5 estimates
for both regular painting and certified lead abatements. Since the cost of one of the certified lead abatements was in the middle of all of the estimates, we went with that. We also has a lot of other projects to do and a small child and limited time. My feeling is that it was money well spent. But it was definately something we could have done ourselves had we the time and energy. There is a lot of information out there about lead abatements and containment of lead dust. I do think that people can get worked up about this, but if you have small children around, I would research before I started disturbing lead paint. |
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