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Rudbekia
Citizen
Username: Rudbekia
Post Number: 193
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 10:14 am: | 
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Boy how I wish the search function here worked because I'm sure I'd find a lot of past discussion about this. But since it doesn't, or at least not for me anymore, I'll ask what I'm sure has been discussed a lot here. I've heard that every chimney cleaner tried to sell liners and that often it's just scam. I have a chimney cleaner who seems great, was recommended by someone who seems reputable on this forum, and he says I need a liner. It looks to me like I need one too, but what do I know? Any opinions on this and whether caps are needed? Thanks for the input! |
HKing
Citizen
Username: Hking
Post Number: 39
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 10:36 am: |
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I don't know the specifics of your situation or why he's telling you this. I can tell you what happened with us. The previous owner had switched from old oil-fired furnace to a new gas-fired, high-efficiency furnace. Not upgrading the chimney liner at that time caused quite a bit of damage including a roof leak. Here is description of problem as I understand it:
The exhaust gases from a fuel-efficient gas-fired furnace can cause condensation to be formed inside the chimney(there is some relationship here to heat of combustion gases and size of the chimney as well as quality of existing clay liner or masonry-only furnace flue). This condensation is corrosive because it becomes acidic when combined with the byproducts of combustion from the furnace. In the winter the freezing/unfreezing of the moisture destroys bricks and leads to gaps in joints and chips in the brick. For these reasons, as I understand it, a new liner should usually accompany the installation of a gas-fired furnace.
Seller had to do about 4K worth of work re-doing the masonry chimney and cap and installing a liner to correct the problem. I think the liner part was around 1-1.5K.
Hope this helps. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 9099
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 11:23 am: |
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Our chimney had ceramic tiles lining it, which were found by MFD in our furnace. Long story short, our reputable and trusted chimney guy recommended a stainless steel liner. I trust him, I think it was a good decision. It is often used as a scam, but that doesn't mean that they are never necessary.
I was more confident of the need due to the fact that the Fire Department and furnace guy found the debris from the flue.
A cap is always a good idea; it keep squirrels and other creatures out. |
mjh
Supporter
Username: Mjh
Post Number: 756
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 11:30 am: |
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Rudbekia;
You're asking a very reasonable question, and I strongly advise you to get at least one more opinion before going forward with a new liner. The advice may be correct, but there are soooooooooo many snarky companies in that business (Honestly, the trauma of my first naive experience with one of these guys has not entirely left me after 8 years!)
We were told the same thing, only to have it refuted by 2 other companies, both of whom said that the chimney was fine, and no new liner was needed. I believe the guy we liked and eventually trusted was from "Top Hat" (he's been recommended repeatedly on this forum, so someone will surely have the exact name and a phone #).
If this is the company you are already using, I'd feel pretty confident, but I'd still get at least one more opinion before shelling out that kind of money. |
Robert O'Connor
Citizen
Username: Local24
Post Number: 85
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 12:44 pm: |
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Goldie Locks Saves the 3 Bears from Certain Asphyxiation:
The last time we saw Goldie Locks, she was a mere child being chased around by 3 bears. But alas, Goldie has grown up and is now an appliance installer. As we peek in on Goldie Locks, she is attempting to connect a furnace to one of three vent pipes in the three bears house. The first vent pipe was toooooo small, the second vent pipe was toooooo big, but the third vent pipe was just right. At one point we were simply worried about vent pipes being big enough but as technology has progressed, we are now worried about vents being too big. Vent pipes for new Federally mandated mid-efficiency appliances have to be "just right" When a vent pipe is too small there isn't sufficient area to vent the products of combustion. When a vent pipe is too big it will be subject to excessive condensation. The corrosive nature of this condensate will cause the vent pipe to deteriorate. This issue, as well as the dangers associated with vents and chimneys that don't funtion properly have led to incresed concern about using existing chimneys and vents when appliances are being replaced. You have probably seen some articles on the subject. An article called "Carbon Monoxide--The Silent Killer" , "Danger Lurks in Local Neighborhoods: Dangers of Carbon Monoxide," written by George E. Lucia and Trica Branley of Hillsboro, NJ and it appeared in the Feburary 1994 issue of New Jersey Municipalities Magazine. Both of these articles are worth reading. Some questions I ask a applicant who is proposing to use an existing chimney or vent with a replacement appliance are:
1. Is the chimney/vent clear and free of obstructions?
2. Is the chimney lined, and is the liner in good condition?
3. Is the chimney/vent size appropriate for the new appliance?
Often it is not possible for an inspector to see the inside of the flue or chimney. In most cases, an inspection is done after the new appliance is installed. For this reason getting some certification about existing conditions from the installer probably makes sense and is in fact code in the great state of New Jersey (counter form: F370). In addition, a spill test performed by the contractor should be performed. If possible, this spill test should be witnessed (a permit IS required for a new chimney liner). We now return to Goldie Locks, who has just completed the furnace installation in the 3 bears house. The 3 bears are so happy with the installation that they don't chase Goldie Locks out of the house, but rather, invite her to sit down and have some porridge with them. And they all lived happily ever after--untill the bears got the bill. Papa Bear thinks Goldie Locks' prices are toooooo high!
The End.
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Dennis J O'Neill
Citizen
Username: Plungy
Post Number: 78
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 3:55 pm: |
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Slightly off topic. We have been getting a rash of service calls from customers with central air complaining of ductwork sweating in the basement. Upon arrival we've been finding that folks are running thier whole house attic fan in conjuction with thier central air.
Problem is obviously with all the windows closed in the house the attic fan only has one place to draw air from....THE CHIMNEY! the condensation from the water heater flue, not to mention the poisonous gasses, are being pulled bacwards down the chimney by the attic fan and causing condensation on the cold ductwork in the basement.
People, if you have central air or not please don't run your whole house fan with the windows closed. |
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