| Author |
Message |
    
themp
Citizen
Username: Themp
Post Number: 578
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 29, 2004 - 12:25 pm: |     |
When our electrican was finishing up, I noticed that many of the new outlets were loose, i.e. you could push them in with your thumb. The electrician said that the drywallers had loosened them all by "slamming" the drywall into place. He reluctantly put in extenders to stabilize them against the drywall, not without complaining (I guess I was supposed to just live with them).
My question is, given that the walls were open, and the electrician had the opportunity to use any type of common nail he wanted, is it plausible to blame it on the drywallers if most of the boxes were loose? I know how fragile drywall can be, and I know how well a common nail sets into a stud.
I'm settling my final bill and I want to list a few shortcomings, but I don't want to go off half cocked. |
jgberkeley
Citizen
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 3503
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 29, 2004 - 1:15 pm: | |
In my opinion, the box should have been mounted in such a matter that a drywaller slamming the box, would break out the dry wall.
The box should not move. I was not mounted correctly.
In my opinion.
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark; professionals built the Titanic. |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 484
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 29, 2004 - 4:17 pm: | |
Those boxes should have been installed with the correct offset -- so when the sheet rock was installed, they would extend the correct distance.
The electrician should have taken that into account.
Did the work pass inspection prior to the sheetrock being installed?
Pete |
themp
Citizen
Username: Themp
Post Number: 579
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 29, 2004 - 7:06 pm: | |
I think the offset was right to bring them out flush with the outside of the wall. The electrician said that the drywall slammed them back into the wall and pulled the nails out, but I had trouble seeing how that would happen if they were nailed in nicely. |
Richard O'Connor
Citizen
Username: Roconn
Post Number: 174
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 1, 2004 - 11:14 am: | |
I watched this done in my house during the rebuild of the second floor.
The methodology for drywallers is to put the sheet up loose with loosely marked centers of the boxes then use a spiral saw (roto zip) to cut the openings. Usually even though the electrician 'correctly' set the offset for the boxes they end up being a little shallow.
Now, add in that if the outlets were in when the drywallers rotozipped around they made a space large enough for the 'ears' on the outlets to go through and you have your problem.
A couple of my 'brand new' outlets have this problem ... ran to hd and got some shims and all is fine now .. the boxes were VERY LIKELY mounted exactly right with the appropriate hardware, it is unlikely they are even loose, what happens is that IF the hole in the drywall is dramatically bigger than the box (but still smaller than the faceplate) then there is nothing for the outlet/switch to be solid against ... almost always (excepting remodel/old work boxes) the box is at 'some' depth behind the front surface. (This is probably true of even your old outlets .. but it was done with plaster and lath then and the installers took way more care to get it right.
I am currently building a closet for a friend ... one of the walls has two oulets and a switchbox in it ... I made very careful line drawings and placement markings for the boxes and EXCEPT FOR ONE in every case, I managed to cut the holes marginally too big ... and yes, my box off sets are in fact exactly right .. and yet .. slightly behind the drywall ... hmmmm
Anyway, what you have is common and that is why there is a really cheap solution at the home depot.
The little shims now exist because this happens all the time. If the drywallers took the kind of time it takes to get their holes for outlets "exactly right" you'd not be happy with what that part of the job cost.
Richard (ROC)
--Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark; professionals built the Titanic.--
--AIM: ROConn |
themp
Citizen
Username: Themp
Post Number: 595
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 2, 2004 - 3:26 pm: | |
Thanks, Richard. The boxes themselves are what's loose. I took off the faceplate on the one that he didn't fix and checked. When you plug in a three prong extention cord, you think the sockets are going to recede into the wall - only the face plate makes them spring back, and obviously that one screw in the face plate isn't designed for that.
By adding a box extension, he stabilized them against the drywall in most cases, which is like making a new work box into and old work box (? sort of).
I think you are right that the holes were cut too big. On a couple light switches, the edge of the hole peeks out from behing the plate. Are the lobes on a receptacle supposed to rest on the outside of the drywall? That means that the silouette of the receptacle has to be bigger than that of the box, and the hole has to be cut to a close tolerance. |
jgberkeley
Citizen
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 3508
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 2, 2004 - 3:32 pm: | |
The size of the hole does not matter to the mounting of the box.
The box has been knocked loose from the mounting. To really fix it you will need to cut the drywall out, fix the box, install new drywall patch and tape and work the joints.
The lobe of the switch or outlet should be outside the drywall and screwed flush to the drywall finish.
The hole aroun the box and the drywall, peeking out under the cover plate can be filled with spackle and painted. Fill only the area from the drywall to the outer edge of the box, not inside the box.
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark; professionals built the Titanic. |
themp
Citizen
Username: Themp
Post Number: 618
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 3, 2004 - 10:53 pm: | |
Right.
I just did a decent drywall patch. For the first time I used a carpenter's square and cut a very precise patch to the exact size of the hole. First time it went painlessly. |
bobk
Citizen
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4854
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 4, 2004 - 5:16 am: | |
In our first house I took out the plaster in the bathroom and replaced it with water resistant sheetrock. Not all that hard to do. However, I got the outlet opening a little large. I bought a large cover plate for the box and nobody ever noticed, including my wife, the inspector. 
this was 20 years ago, but I believe that the plate was made specifically for this problem. |
tmb
Citizen
Username: Tmb
Post Number: 10
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 4, 2004 - 11:45 am: | |
They sell oversized face plates at Home Depot. I had a similar problem after renovating our kitchen and the bigger faceplates (outlets and switches) finish the job nicely. |
dano
Citizen
Username: Dano
Post Number: 75
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 4, 2004 - 2:52 pm: | |
They are called goof plates. Just for that reason. |
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