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eliz
Supporter
Username: Eliz
Post Number: 960
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 11:54 am: | 
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So...after all the back and forth I vetoed the slate idea and decided on hardwood. I've changed my mind many times but finally settled on a wood/color. I had Claudio from Russo floors here last night and it turns out that to lay hardwood over my existing yellow pine floor I need to either remove it and lay a layer of plywood or lay plywood on top of existing floor and then the new floor (this would bump up the floor well over an inch which I don't want to do). To add another wrench into this I have a square about 2 x 3' of concrete where I guess there was originally some kind of wood burning stove or something and this will have to be removed. From the basement you can see that this is bricks and then must be covered with concrete on top. There are copper pipes running a couple inches underneach the bricks as well. So....Claudio can't fix this thing and I have to find someone to do it - who would do something like this???
(this has turned into one big headache) |
gemini
Citizen
Username: Gemini
Post Number: 356
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 1:32 pm: |
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Eliz, you'd have the same problem with slate also, so don't feel too bad about your descision. I have a wood floor kitchen and I love it so much, so warm both physically and aesthetically. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 3688
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 1:41 pm: |
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Any decent contractor can do it. I'd look and see who gets good referrals and give them a call. |
Earlster
Supporter
Username: Earlster
Post Number: 881
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 3:07 pm: |
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When I ripped the tiles out of our first floor bathroom I, found they were glued right onto regular wood flooring (don't ask, but some of the previous owners were clearly morons), which explained while they were all cracked. Putting a new subfloor in isn't all that hard, you should easily find a contractor to do that for you. |
eliz
Supporter
Username: Eliz
Post Number: 964
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 3:32 pm: |
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I can find the person to put the new subfloor in but he won't do it until the concrete/brick thing (hearth?) is removed. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 3692
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 3:40 pm: |
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Try a demo service. The guy who did our demo (Dave Burrell) was great & I am pretty sure he does small jobs, too. |
Duncan
Supporter
Username: Duncanrogers
Post Number: 3808
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 3:50 pm: |
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Dave Burrell is fantastic and so are his nephews, and they will do any job small to tall. Highly recommended. |
Bobkat
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 7289
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 3:50 pm: |
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I don't think you have to take out all the masonry, just remove it down to where it is even or slightly below the joists. Buy a cold chisel and a hammer and go at it. |
eliz
Supporter
Username: Eliz
Post Number: 965
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 6:43 pm: |
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Oh Bobkat you obviously don't know me or the DH...
Do you have a number for Dave Burrell handy?
Thanks. |
jab
Citizen
Username: Jab
Post Number: 366
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 8:54 pm: |
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Eliz, our kitchen contractor laid prefinished wood flooring on top of the existing floor without putting plywood down first. It seemed like a big shortcut to me, but it looks fine (except for a tiny area that is really a separate passageway to the next room). Stop by if you want to see how it looks. |
eliz
Supporter
Username: Eliz
Post Number: 966
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 9:52 pm: |
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jab - thanks I may do that. The main problem is that our existing kitchen floor is yellow pine - very soft. I even called Bruce (the manufacturer of the flooring) today to verify if it was necessary. The first response was it was okay to lay over existing wood but then on double checking I was told that unless the new floor was being laid perpendicular to the old floor a subfloor was necessary or we would experience problems with movement, gaps etc.
I have to give kudos to Claudio at Russo - he was right and said he wouldn't do it because I wouldn't be happy and he relies on word of mouth for his business. Last week I had an installer from Expo come by to give me an estimate and he had no problem with laying over the existing floor. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 3700
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 10:14 pm: |
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Eliz-
Dave doesn't like his number posted. I PLed you with it. |
Me2
Citizen
Username: Me2
Post Number: 88
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 9:28 am: |
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I too have been considering replacing my ceramic tile in the kitchen with wood. I am hesitant because I am concerned about the maintenance for wood floors. How do you clean them? I never use chemicals to clean the wood floors in the rest of the house, but I imagine I will need more than just damp mopping for the kitchen floor. No? Also, is there some specific type of wood flooring that is recommended for kitchens? |
Wilkanoid
Citizen
Username: Cseleosida
Post Number: 301
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 9:49 am: |
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I've had wood floors in my kitchen for more than 5 years now. We clean them mostly with white vinegar and water, which is what the wood flooring guy recommended. Haven't had any problems. |
Me2
Citizen
Username: Me2
Post Number: 89
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 2:30 pm: |
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Thanks Wilkanoid!
Any recommendations on pre-finished flooring vs conventional? |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 3712
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 2:48 pm: |
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My one regret is that we used a glossy wood on our kitchen floor. Go with a satin or matte wood so that every little scratch doesn't show up.
We use Swiffer wet because I am lazy. |
lizzyr
Citizen
Username: Lizzyr
Post Number: 160
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 3:37 pm: |
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Go with conventional - you will have a longer lasting finish than the pre-finished. I know someone with pre-finished that hates it. |
Bobkat
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 7315
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 3:49 pm: |
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Interesting, some of the prefinished companies such as Bellawood offer a 50 year warrenty.
www.lumberliquidators.com
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JGTierney
Citizen
Username: Jtg7448
Post Number: 198
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 1:57 pm: |
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My two cents for hardwood:
We have it, we recommend it...we usually don't recommend a glossy finish because you have to keep it up (as stated above).
And now that I have a child and I love it even more, it cleans up well.
As far as the long haul, someone once told me they look forward to their child 'antiquing' it for them. I've since stopped trying to manage the nicks, and am teaching myself to like them :-)
A friend just installed cork and am anxious to see how it ages/ performs. |
Wilkanoid
Citizen
Username: Cseleosida
Post Number: 306
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 9:58 am: |
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I recommend conventional over pre-finished. The pre-finished flooring I looked at a long time ago had grooves (which you can't see unless you're looking for them) which collect dirt. The floor guy also recommended conventional, although I can't remember why.
If you're having them installed and finished in the winter (now?), you may have to go with a matte water based finish unless you want to get high for a week or so. If you had the windows open and could stand the smell, I am told that oil-based finishes are much more durable. Having said that, I went with a matte water based finish because I have a sensitive nose and I can't stand paint fumes.
All that being said, I've also heard good things about bamboo floors but have no personal experience with them. |
Bobkat
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 7363
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 10:07 am: |
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Wilkanoid - the cheap engineered floors have the groove because of machining issues. The more expensive ones don't.
Please don't view my postings as an endorsement of engineered flooring products, although I think they have their uses. Unless your subfloor is as flat as a billiard table they aren't going to look, at least initially, as good as a site sanded and finished floor.
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sk8mom
Citizen
Username: Sk8mom
Post Number: 72
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 11:51 am: |
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Who did you use to rip out the old floor, put in a new subfloor and level the whole thing? I am hearing $10,000 for my maybe 9x12 eat-in area not counting cost of new floor. |
eliz
Supporter
Username: Eliz
Post Number: 978
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 12:53 pm: |
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No way - that is nothing near what I've been quoted. |
cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 646
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 1:11 pm: |
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sk8mom -- that's an absurd estimate, unless you have a lot of custom work that needs to be done.
I'd suggest calling R&G (yes, the roofing people -- they have a big carpentry business too, and did much of our kitchen renovation). They gave us an estimate of about $1100 to do a slightly larger area than that. We ended up not having them do it, for reasons too complex and unimportant to get into. |
JGTierney
Citizen
Username: Jtg7448
Post Number: 199
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 1:19 pm: |
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Ok, that quote makes your job for 108 square feet, $100 per square foot.
For ripping out my old floor, and installing new Brazilian cherry I paid $7.50 per square foot. Granted, I didn't have a new subfloor put in, but that estimate is INSANE. |
Bobkat
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 7383
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 1:37 pm: |
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Even if you are talking structural work (removing the floor joists, replacing damaged sills or jacking them up) the price seems high.
If you are taking just removing the finished floor and putting down a new underlayment, or even removing the old underlayment and replacing it with tongue and groove 3/4 inch plywood somebody saw you coming.
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sk8mom
Citizen
Username: Sk8mom
Post Number: 78
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 6:20 pm: |
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The existing ceramic tile has to be ripped up, the linoleum under that and who knows what's under that, and the floor has to be leveled. It is off by up to 3" in that part of the kitchen.
Any additional or further comments are most welcome! |
Bobkat
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 7390
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 7:58 am: |
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Removing the tile and linoleum isn't a biggie. One guy can probably do that in a morning.
However, a three inch out of level in a small room is probably more than normal settlement. Is the area over the basement where you can look for rotting or broken sills along the outside wall and or sagging joists? Is the dining area built on grade where the sills and joist are subject to rot?
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Blueandgold
Citizen
Username: Blueandgold
Post Number: 26
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 12:51 pm: |
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I don't know whether they are willing to rip out the concrete/brick area, but you can try calling Arthur & Arthur, Inc. (866-322-2985). I know they install sub-floors and provide quite a few services. |
sk8mom
Citizen
Username: Sk8mom
Post Number: 82
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 2:02 pm: |
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Bobkat, the area was added on in maybe the 1950s and is over a crawl space. I will check what you noted.
Thanks again to all. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 3772
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 2:39 pm: |
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Sk8 - we put a wood floor over exactly the same thing: a 50s addition over a crawl space, which was 2" higher. It involved demolishing, removing several layers of subfloor, releveling and adding new subfloor and the flooring itself.
No way should it be that expensive for your ~100 square feet. We did roughly 475 square feet (3 rooms) in that ballpark, including materials.
If the height difference is due to issues such as Bob raised, and not just former owners slapping new floors on top of old ones (as was ours), then you will pay a lot more. But, it doesn't even sound like your person included this in the estimate. |
Bobkat
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 7404
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 5:38 pm: |
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Greentree makes a good point. I have been operating under the assumption that their is a three inch dip between the high point in the room and the low point.
If this floor is a couple of inches higher than the kitchen floor it is probably because of layers of linoleum, plywood and tile. This isn't a big deal. |
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