| Author |
Message |
    
parkah
Citizen
Username: Parkah
Post Number: 92
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 3:17 pm: | 
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Hey gang,
This last week we noticed seepage in 2 different rooms on our second floor.
The first leak appeared towards the ceiling on an outside wall in a
bedroom. I’m wondering if this leak may be caused by ice damming?
The appearance of the second leak was a bit odd. The center ceiling light
in our bathroom blew out, and when I went to replace it, I found that the
light fixture’s globe had about a shot glass amount of water pooled in it.
It seems that this leak must have traveled through the light fixture
before pooling in the globe. Because this leak is in the center of the
bathroom, I’m not sure it was caused by ice damming. We have a dormer
that aligns directly above the center light, so I’m wondering if the
problem could the flashing between the roof and the dormer? There is also
a steam pipe that runs above the bathroom ceiling close to the center
light… but I don’t think it could leak enough water to saturate the
ceiling insulation and pool in the fixture globe could it?
The kicker is, we just had our bathroom redone… aaaaaaaannd a new roof and
gutters installed in 2003 by one of the reputable roofing companies here
in town.
I’ve heard that there’s no easy way to prevent ice damming and that from
time to time you can have problems… but it just doesn’t sit right with me
that a problem has occurred 2 years after a new roof was installed. Am I
wrong in this thinking? |
Bobkat
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 7417
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 3:23 pm: |
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Call your roofer. The roof should still be under warranty.
Now a days most roofers use a plastic membrane under the first few rows of shingles to help eliminate ice daming.
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Daniel I. Goldberg
Citizen
Username: Dig
Post Number: 31
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 6:10 pm: |
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Who installed the roof? |
Steinism
Citizen
Username: Steinism
Post Number: 25
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 10:19 pm: |
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yes please tell. who installed it. i have a few roofers coming by to give me estimates this week. |
Jgberkeley
Citizen
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 4177
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 - 8:20 am: |
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I vote call your roofer and discuss the Ice dam problem and how he addressed it when he roofed.
Then I would consider the use of Ice wire to control the effect of an Ice Dam.
Later,
George |
Chalmers
Citizen
Username: Chalmers
Post Number: 105
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 - 12:03 pm: |
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We also have a leaking roof, installed about 6 months ago by Scott's Roofing. We had a plumber come to look at our leaking ceiling. He said it was melting snow from the roof. |
parkah
Citizen
Username: Parkah
Post Number: 93
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 - 1:12 pm: |
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Thanks for the advice.
I haven't had a chance to contact the roofing company yet, so I'd rather not name them before they've had a chance to look at our roof and confirm there is a problem.
If you'd like to PL me about my roofer selection process however, I'd be more than happy to share my experience.
Thanks. |
upondaroof
Citizen
Username: Upondaroof
Post Number: 86
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 4, 2005 - 9:20 am: |
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Hi all,
Just got back from 10 days in Florida and they don't seem to have any problems with ice dams.(tic)
But, seriously, the problem with ice dam leakage in new installations where ice guard underlayments were used, is usually due to improper installation of same. To be effective, the ice protection must be installed over the fascia, i.e., behind the gutter and also turned up at any side walls, (dormers, etc.) which means it has to be behind the siding. Also any projections (vent stacks, roof jacks, etc.) through the ice guard need to be caulked and then flashed. For some strange reason, these concepts seem to be lost on some roofers. Proper installation requires removal and replacement of the gutters and some siding. The majority of new roofs I have seen, usually have the ice guard installed either even with the eave or eave course of shingles and the usual excuse for the leakage is either extreme conditions or product failure, neither of which is covered by the warranty since the contractor has no control over same.
Don't let them BS you. Extreme conditions might cause leakage, but ice guard doesn't fail unless it was installed incorrectly. |
Daniel I. Goldberg
Citizen
Username: Dig
Post Number: 37
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 4, 2005 - 10:13 am: |
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Upondaroof: Are you a roofer? Do you do work in town? |
upondaroof
Citizen
Username: Upondaroof
Post Number: 87
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 4, 2005 - 3:43 pm: |
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Daniel I. Goldberg writes: "Upondaroof: Are you a roofer? Do you do work in town?"
Yes to both; however, I work alone and just do maintenance and small repairs, mostly slate work, and only that, which one man can safely do. You can check me out at: http://hometown.aol.com/eddorflinger/myhomepage/profile.html. I'm not trying to use this BBS as a source of income, I just enjoy the site. I grew up in West Orange and have worked the past 38 years in the Essex area, so I can identify with the people and their problems. I enjoy sharing the benefit of my experience, but hey, if you want to contract with me, I'll be happy to take your money, if it's something I can do. |
Travis
Citizen
Username: Travis
Post Number: 61
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 6, 2005 - 7:30 am: |
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Upondaroof, I'd be interested in your answer to this question:
I had water leakage from ice dams on my newly installed roof (first water damage in 7 years, on a new roof). This was where a porch roof and a gable roof intersected on the second floor. The roofer said that because the snow was so high, some of it got behind the siding. Never happened before.
I thought about this afterwards and thought, wait a minute, what about the drainage plane? So I am curious, where is the drainage plane for siding on a second story, where there is a porch roof extending out from the side of the house? I would expect weep holes for moisture to escape at the bottom of siding, all I can see is lots of tar. |
upondaroof
Citizen
Username: Upondaroof
Post Number: 88
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 6, 2005 - 8:40 pm: |
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Travis,
I'm not quite sure if I understand your info. Is the roof new or 7 years old and is the porch roof intersecting the gable end wall? If the latter is true, the buildup of snow in front of the wall combined with any heat loss through the wall could result in an ice dam situation at that point and melt off could breach the flashing at that point. If it's a new roof (new, meaning recent, like within a few months, then it might be something the roofer caused or overlooked. If it's seven years old "new",and it never leaked under similiar heavy snows, then it might be caused by an extreme condition that was particular to that snow alone, such as wind or temperature. It's hard to diagnose with out actually inspecting the area and picking your brain for clues.
As far as a "drainage plane" for the siding, I haven't a clue as to what you are talking about. Perhaps you could better describe what you mean since it's not a term I'm familiar with. |
Travis
Citizen
Username: Travis
Post Number: 62
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 6:09 am: |
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"Drainage plane:" The idea is that any water that gets behind the siding has somewhere to go besides into the house. The drainage plane is the tar paper/Tyvek behind the siding, but once gravity has the water it needs to go somewhere. Some of it can just evaporate back out through the siding, but my understanding is that there should be somewhere at the bottom of the siding for the water to get out. I'm sure you know all this, it's just a matter of terminology. |
upondaroof
Citizen
Username: Upondaroof
Post Number: 89
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 8:03 am: |
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Well then, your're talking about underlayment and it is supposed to shed any water that makes it's way through the siding. If the siding is caulked at the intersection of the roofing and the siding is prone to absorbing or passing water, (stucco, cedar shake, etc.), then any water that does get through is going to be trapped and will eventually work it's way into the building.
It's almost impossible to install a completely waterproof roofing system without removing the existing gutters, siding and flashings, because the underlayments have to be installed properly to be effective That gets to be extremely costly, so you try to factor for worse case scenarios in problem areas and this is normally effective over the life of the roof, but even a properly installed roof is going to allow water to pass through at one or more times in it's service life due to extreme weather, and if that happens in an area where the underlayment is compromised, then you have a leak. |
Daniel I. Goldberg
Citizen
Username: Dig
Post Number: 39
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 11:43 am: |
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Upondaroof: We moved to a new house in September. Our asphalt roof was fried, and upon the reccomendation of our home inspector, we immediately replaced the roof, along with the gutters. In addition, upon the reccomendation of the home inspector, we had the roofer install vents along the the front and back eaves (where the roof meets the fascia). Of course, a ridge vent was also installed.
Now that we have done the roof and venting "by the book," we have had a tremendous amount of ice bulding up on the front side of the house (which faces east). We did not have any leaks, but the iciles were terrible. I'm wondering whether the venting has created more of a problem than it solved. I know that the venting is important in the summer, and in theory it should work in the winter. But, I have to wonder whether it has caused the eaves to be colder than the rest of the roof, thereby causing the melting snow to freeze at the gutters. Any thoughts? |
upondaroof
Citizen
Username: Upondaroof
Post Number: 90
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 8:01 pm: |
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Dig,
The idea behind venting is to achieve airflow between the insulation and the roof deck so that there is no buildup of condensate in this space. A properly installed and balanced venting system in conjunction with properly sized and installed insulation will result in the air space above the insulation being at the same temperature as the outdoor temp, because any heat (or cooling) or moisture loss through the insulation is vented right out of the system. In the winter, that means a colder roof surface. Roof areas with an east exposure, receive only a small amount of direct sunlight which naturally melts the snow and it drains down to the gutter, but as the sun heads south to west, the eave areas are shaded and the continued melt starts to re-freeze at the eave. Because of your "by the book" install, there's no heat loss to keep the slush, slushy, and eventually everything just melts away sans interior damage. Icicles are just a byproduct of the freeze-thaw cycle.In the summer, it works just the opposite and you don't have condensation problems, such as mold.
You have chosen and spent your money wisely, Grasshopper! (tic)
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Ginny Brown
Citizen
Username: Ginny_brown
Post Number: 11
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 9:26 pm: |
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I had a leaky new roof and the ice was damming. I contacted my roofer and he insisted that they had properly put on the ice shield. Instead of fighting him, which takes time and money, this I installed heater cables on the roof this year and they have worked. |
mammabear
Citizen
Username: Mammabear
Post Number: 175
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 9:54 pm: |
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upondroof- do you know who repairs soffets? We have those darm enclosed gutters (yankee?) and they continually clog. As a result of cloggs, we have leakage and some old rot. Ithink they all need to be replaced. Any ideas? |
Daniel I. Goldberg
Citizen
Username: Dig
Post Number: 42
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 10:30 am: |
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Upondaroof: So, there is no reason to worry about the buildup of sifnificant icicles? Don't they stop the water from running down into the gutters? And, curiously, I did not get the icicles evenly accross the front eave, but only in certain spots. I'm wondering whether it is possible that the gutter was improperly installed and I am getting freezing water seeping between the gutter and the fascia. |
upondaroof
Citizen
Username: Upondaroof
Post Number: 93
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 8:56 pm: |
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mammabear writes: "upondroof- do you know who repairs soffets?"
If you have leakage due to clogs, then there are issues with the built-in gutters that need to be addressed prior to repairing the soffits. The gutter should be able to hold water without leaking. |
upondaroof
Citizen
Username: Upondaroof
Post Number: 94
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 9:07 pm: |
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Daniel I. Goldberg wites: "So, there is no reason to worry about the buildup of sifnificant icicles?"
Well, you may want to carefully knock them off to reduce the chance of personal injury or property damage. The icicles between the gutter and fascia or over the gutter are ok. Icicles through the soffit are not. Everything is frozen because everything is at ambient temp. This is good! The keyword here is frozen, as opposed to slushy from heat loss. |
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