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C Bataille
Citizen
Username: Nakaille
Post Number: 2591
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 5, 2006 - 8:49 am: | 
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As many of you already know my car was stolen from my driveway Saturday night and subsequently wrecked/totalled. My next door neighbor heard suspicious noise around 4:30 a.m., looked outside and decided to call the police. The thieves were fast and the car was gone before the police arrived. After speaking to her briefly they banged on our door to tell us what had transpired. We described the car which they radioed to another officer on Springfield Ave. We could hear them confirming that they were seeing the car being driven into Irvington. The officers at our door said something about the "no chase policy", except if it was a carjacking.
I understand that "no chase" policies were developed primarily to protect innocent bystanders. AT 4:30 ON SUNDAY MORNING?? When you have immediate confirmation of a theft, why wouldn't you pursue? This is, after all, Essex County NJ. As in stolen car capital of the country. The police report I picked up yesterday confirms that the officer on Springfield Ave had visual contact with the car. It may be that the car would have been wrecked anyway in a chase. But it also may be that the perps would have abandoned the car before major damage was done.
Shouldn't "no chase" policies take into account the circumstances? Like the fact that it is known that a felony has just been committed and that there are about zero people moving around town? |
jet
Citizen
Username: Jet
Post Number: 1100
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 5, 2006 - 10:22 am: |
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It's just a hunk of insured metal. # 1 cause of police death on duty, heart attack # 2 car crash. Chasing stolen cars on busy streets is just plain dumb. Wait till the creatures leave it in Irvington or Newark & retrive it. |
mjc
Citizen
Username: Mjc
Post Number: 1109
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 5, 2006 - 11:23 am: |
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jet, you might check C Bataille's thread about Job's Sister (in Virtual Cafe?) for some background on the difficulties the loss of this car is causing.
At 4:30 Sunday morning, Springfield Ave is probably not a "busy street." Obviously this has to be at the discretion of the police, but what would it have hurt to attempt a traffic stop of the perps, since the car had been reported stolen? If they didn't stop, then we're no worse off than before, and if they did stop then CB's troubles are lessened, not to mention the dangers entailed when the perps wrecked the car. |
HOMMELL
Citizen
Username: Hommell
Post Number: 157
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 5, 2006 - 11:56 am: |
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C Bataille - very sorry for your loss.
Let's not forget the desire to catch those who did this so they might not do it again - also the deterrent effect on others. I suppose it is a balancing act between public safety during the immediate pursuit and quality of life. Maybe once the new police station is completed on Springfield Avenue, that escape route will close off and we will see a drop in car theft.
By the way, for others trying to prevent future theft - what type of care was it, what neighborhood, area do you live in, etc. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7561
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 5, 2006 - 12:11 pm: |
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A couple years ago, TS stopped at the liquor store on SA near Tuscan. There was a car parked in the Mr. Goodlube lot and, as she walked into the store, a guy came barreling out, jumped in the car and took off into Irvington. The store owner was yelling because the guy had done the classic "ask for something out of reach, grab the cash from the register and split".
TS got the license plate number & gave it to the store owner, along with her contact info to be a witness. No one ever called her. She went back a few days later to find out what happened and the store owner told her that the cops told that, since the car took off into Irvington, it was probably stolen and not worth pursuing.
I agree about high speed chases being a bad idea. Last summer, there was an armed car jacking in Orange. My neighbor and I stood and watched the stolen car and 8 police vehicles from various jurisdictions tearing down Elmwood. No sirens, nothing. They were all going so fast that each vehicle's wheels left the ground when they came up the little hill in front of Winchester Gardens. Anyone who had been crossing the street or making a turn would have been killed.
Although, in Cathy's case, if another patrol car spotted the vehicle, I don't know why they coulnd't at least attempt to pull them over. There is a big difference between that and a high speed chase.
It sometimes seems that the MPD SOP is to chase criminals back into Irvington. Maybe we don't have enough officers to follow up with arrests. But, why not hit Maplewood if you know that you are home free if you can cross the border out of town. I'd like these guys to live in fear of even driving thru town. |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 1324
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 5, 2006 - 4:00 pm: |
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Being a cop can be very dangerous. So, I suggest that instead of chasing stolen cars that the police just shoot to kill. Sure we would spend more on bullets, but if we killed 1 out of every 5 car thieves wouldn't it be worth it.
As a side note, if the perp is shot and not killed it should be up to the discretion of the officer to either bring him/her to the hospital or to leave him/her in pain lying on the street. Priority should dictate that the car is more important than the perp’s life.
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14105
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 5, 2006 - 5:28 pm: |
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Good idea. And if the cop misses and hits an innocent person, the cop should shoot again at close range, to put him out of his misery.
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11424
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 5, 2006 - 6:29 pm: |
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The rule makes sense, unless it is your ox that is getting gored. |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 7386
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 5, 2006 - 6:56 pm: |
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Mayor:
If the police shoot to kill the driver of the stolen car, won't the car be totaled as a result? I fail to see how this could have solved Cathy's problem.
Cathy:
I am so terribly sorry about what happened to your car. I can understand why the police would have been reluctant to engage in a high speed chase, but I agree with those above who suggested that the police should have engaged in a safer means of apprehension if one were available.
I haven't read the Job's sister thread yet (I will now) but can anyone tell me how the car was totaled if there was no chase. Does anyone know? |
C Bataille
Citizen
Username: Nakaille
Post Number: 2592
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 5, 2006 - 8:56 pm: |
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Joan, apparently the thieves drove it into something at sometime between 4:30 a.m and 4:30 p.m. on Sunday. I can't tell from the Newark report what the immediate circumstances were when they found the car.
Hommell, it was a 2002 Subaru Outback with only 34K on it. Not your typical joyride vehicle. It really doesn't matter what part of Maplewood or South Orange or Essex County you live in when it comes to auto theft. |
Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 1523
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, May 7, 2006 - 3:53 pm: |
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Maplewood P.D. doesn't make up the rules; the N.J. Attorney General does, and passes them down through the county prosecutor's office. There isn't a whole lot of wiggle room either. Cops who break those rules get suspended or fired. It just isn't worth it. |
The Notorious S.L.K.
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1373
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 7, 2006 - 9:10 pm: |
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Can I ask a silly question?
Why didn't the officer just follow the stolen vehicle fro ma safe distance?
-SLK |
Albatross
Citizen
Username: Albatross
Post Number: 837
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, May 7, 2006 - 11:04 pm: |
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It's amazing what 'police pursuit guidelines New Jersey' does on Google 
http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/vehpurs_2001.pdf |
LW
Citizen
Username: Lrw
Post Number: 126
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 9:57 am: |
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MAYOR- You're sick. |
C Bataille
Citizen
Username: Nakaille
Post Number: 2597
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 10:45 am: |
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Thanks, Albatross. Apparently, under NJ law, pursuit is permitted at the officer's discretion:
New Jersey Police Vehicular Pursuit Policy
(12/2001) 15
APPENDIX A TO NEW JERSEY POLICE VEHICULAR PURSUIT POLICY
OFFENSES IN ADDITION TO THOSE OF THE FIRST AND SECOND DEGREE
FOR WHICH VEHICULAR PURSUIT MAY BE AUTHORIZED
UNDER SUBSECTION IA(1)(a)
Vehicular Homicide 2C:11-5
Aggravated Assault 2C:12-1b
Criminal Restraint 2C:13-2
Aggravated Criminal Sexual Contact 2C:14-3a
Arson 2C:17-1b
Burglary 2C:18-2
Automobile Theft 2C:20-2
Theft by Extortion 2C:20-5
Escape 2C:29-5
Manufacturing, Distributing or Dispensing of CDS 2C:35-5b
Brett may have other info that we are not yet privy to but the above is what is on the books. Of course, judgement is required concerning road conditions, density of pedestrians and other vehicles, etc. But, at 4:30 on a Sunday morning, clear weather, etc? According to the regs above they can pursue into another town. |
Albatross
Citizen
Username: Albatross
Post Number: 838
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 11:08 am: |
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To be a bit of a Devil's Advocate, pursuit into another town might have also been an issue. Perhaps the officer was not confident in pursuing through an unfamiliar town? |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 1349
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 11:59 am: |
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Tom and Joan, I think you missed that I was kidding about the shooting thing. I don't actually think police should be wildly shooting their guns at escaping cars.
Although, seriously, I wouldn't care at all if when they caught the car theif that they shot him/her in the leg before bringing them in. A little extra punishment to deter crimes in town. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14155
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 11:58 am: |
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About a year ago, I read a New York Times article about how the police in Newark (and I think Irvington) have developed some sophisticated methods for blocking and trapping car thieves, without moving at high speed. It claims that they have been very effective at reducing car theft and catching the remaining thieves. I would like to know if Newark is no longer the capital of car theft. I don't think the article provided that bit of information.
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C Bataille
Citizen
Username: Nakaille
Post Number: 2604
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 1:09 pm: |
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Albatross' link describes that technique among others in some detail. It's not just a Newark/Irvington thing.
http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/vehpurs_2001.pdf
I don't know if the stolen car stats have gone down in Newark or Irvington but I do know that that's where lots of stolen cars from the "Urban Rim" end up. |
jet
Citizen
Username: Jet
Post Number: 1105
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 1:27 pm: |
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Cars have become riskier to steal, Onstar , Lojack ETC.. The punishment is still way to lenient , get grabbed slinging crack or $50.00 pot bags with a prior your in deep s#$% . Get grabbed in a stolen car for the 4TH time you get probation. |
jet
Citizen
Username: Jet
Post Number: 1106
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 1:50 pm: |
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Car stealing benefits a lot of people , car makers , body shops , car dealers , ins. companys , parts makers , law enforcement , tow co. , lowjack , alarm makers. Growing up everyone knew who the car thiefs were even the cops but they never really got time for it just like graffitti a few people do the majority of it but they just keep getting let go. To me thats preventive policing , catch a 15 yr old with a stolen Accord , you can be sure he'll be moving up to the major leagues in a short time. Give him 4 yrs . Car stealing is so low grade to these kids , it's just something to do when the're bored. |
Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 1531
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 3:22 pm: |
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C. Bataille- You are correct. There is also a distinction between Automobile Theft and possession of a stolen vehicle (Receiving Stolen Property, which is NOT enumerated among those authorized offenses).
It is also the case that the defendant initiates the pursuit by refusing to stop, the officer has discretion to pursue if conditions are met and the police supervisor may order a pursuit terminated at any time. Even at 4:30 AM with no threat to private citizens, a police sergeant or lieutenant may decide to terminate because the risk of injury or property damage is too great. There are also other factors, such as the need to immediately capture an offender vs. the ability to identify and arrest them later. Many conditions figure into deciding whether or not to pursue. |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 5102
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 12:22 pm: |
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FWIW, more and more users of Lojack who don't pay for their cars are becoming a major problem to repossessor's AND police departments everywhere.
We are averaging two our three of these lug heads reporting their cars stolen every month by activating their service. Now this is where the fine should be more than a slap on the wrist. False police reports can get people killed trying to get to the scene of the crime.
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