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Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 673
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 11:18 am: | 
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I'm admittedly very late to this conversation, which seems to span back 10 years now...but the point as I understand it, is that more parking will fuel more business in the towncenter, correct?
I don't see how a Parking deck will solve this, because it will simply fill up with more daily train commuters (parking that doesn't support the business)....in a town where so many people walk to the train, and that has jitney service for those who don't, why do we even have the commuter parking offered? Most long-island commuter towns don't offer this at all.
Wouldn't the solution simply to be to take back the daily parking offered to commuters and revert it back to hourly parking?
I'd be curios to see how many non-maplewood residents use the $3 a day daily lots, which I completely don't understand why a NJ Transit daily lot is offered at all. If NJ trans wants to offer cheap daily parking, they should build a deck by Secaucus Jct, not offer it in Maplewood.
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TK South Orange
Citizen
Username: Tk_south_orange
Post Number: 382
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 11:41 am: |
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11599
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 12:05 pm: |
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The parking spaces, I hesitate to call them lots, near the tracks belong to NJ Transit and they have choosen to make them open to all.
NJT approached Maplewood about building a parking deck where Nelson's is. There was a lot of concern about increased traffic, etc. and it was turned down.
I have always felt that double decking the lot behind the stores on the west side of the tracks to increase shopper parking had some merit, but I am pretty much a minority of one on that subject. |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 678
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 12:25 pm: |
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I wonder if reclaiming this lot from NJ trans, and the Fed Post office are truly ever attainable?
It strikes me that these are the only true opportunities to dramatically impact/improve the downtown, but I can imagine the red tape involved in trying to do so would be insance.
Is it possible for a local government to use Eminent Domain and take from State and Fed Govt? :-) Or would they Eminant Domain us right back.... |
Lucy
Supporter
Username: Lucy
Post Number: 3780
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 12:39 pm: |
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Everything has a pricetag |
drewdix
Citizen
Username: Drewdix
Post Number: 1185
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 1:39 pm: |
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There is no parking problem in Maplewood. |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 679
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 2:20 pm: |
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suffice it say, drewdix, I agree...
there is, however, a traffic problem in Maplewood. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7772
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 3:11 pm: |
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The single biggest thing that can be done to alleviate the parking issue in town would be for business owners to impress upon their employees that they should not (illegally) take up spaces for paying customers. Oh, and for MPD to give out tickets.
I've watched 5-6 employees walk out of their places of business at one time and go straight to their cars in the Village Coffee lot at the end of their shift. I've also heard them say things like "must be a new cop; they know my car and I don't usually get a ticket".
It won't solve everything, but it would sure help. If you work in town center or own a business there, ask yourself how many potential customers you've lost because there is no parking during the day. And it's not about being too lazy to walk. I'm one of those who will park over on Dunnell or the streets west of the village. But you can't do that on weekdays because there is no parking there, either.
If I'm off during the day, I'll head to town first & if there is nothing there, I'll go elsewhere. Our businesses are wonderful, but nothing that I can't go somewhere else for if they are not accessible. |
Lydia
Supporter
Username: Lydial
Post Number: 1872
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 5:42 pm: |
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Agree with Drew Dix and Greenetree -
I don't think there is a parking problem in the village - occasionally I've had to drive all the way to the parking lot behind the woman's club to find an empty spot.
In 7 years I'm pretty certain I've never not been able to find a spot.
If we encourage people who live near the village to drive less and stroll more, that would eleviate driving congestion, increase foot traffic, get more people into the stores, etc.
If people walk 30 minutes or so a day, no one would have to go on a diet either - Unless you're walking to the ice cream store
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susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1578
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 7:27 pm: |
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I moved to S.O. just before Midtown Direct went in, and I can tell you that NJT did not spend millions on the transfer junction only for the benefit of the residents of the towns that actually have train stations. They actually planned for this to benefit a wider group of NJ citizens.
I believe that NJT seriously considered using eminent domain to get land for additional NJT owned parking, but then backed down. I'm not sure that you want to restart this discussion with them...(note that S.O. is the only town in the area to have allowed a significant NJT owned parking lot)
It would not be appropriate for NJT-owned parking to be restricted to residents, however nice it might be for us locals, given the NJ taxpayer subsidy. |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 7460
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 8:42 pm: |
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I agree with Lydia, Greenetree and Drew. We have sufficient parking in Maplewood Village to meet the present need. What we don't have are enough people who are willing to park a short distance from their destination if need be or check out a second parking lot if their lot of preference happens to be full.
We need to work on changing people's perceptions rather than devoting more of our limited space to parking lots and access ways to those lots. |
Lydia
Supporter
Username: Lydial
Post Number: 1873
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 9:03 pm: |
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Joan -
Quote:We need to work on changing people's perceptions rather than devoting more of our limited space to parking lots and access ways to those lots.
Exactly - well said.
I run into you and your husband several times a week in the village - that's one of the nice things about living in Maplewood, driving is an option, not a necessity. Walking is a nice way to get some fresh air and talk to neighbors.
For heavy purchases, all the merchants have back entrances and it's no big deal to stop for 5 minutes and load up.
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14389
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 10:19 pm: |
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Smart Jones, what traffic problem?
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Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 680
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 7:42 am: |
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That's "Smarty" to you......
Traffic problem as I see it is:
1) Try riding a bike through town when everyone is looping around at the train station trying to pick people up/finding parking. The driving is eratic, with sudden left turns into the lot, and people charging out of the lot trying to get out into gaps.
2) The intercection by the ice cream store has so much uncertainty over who goes when, I think it presents a danger to pedestrians (who have the right of way) because people are paying attention to the other cars, not the people. I almost hit a 6 y/o racing across the street to Arturos, because I didn't see him as he had broken away from his Dad in his excitement. I'll never forget that.
3) It definitely gets overly congested at certain times of the day, taking away from the overall downtown appeal, even though there aren't any lines at the stores when this happens. It's all very train-centric, I believe.
My proposal is to eliminate the street side parking and extend the sidewalks so that you eliminate people coming to a stop (waiting for someone to pull out) and you can actually have outdoor tables for restaurants, because the sidewalk will be bigger.
Just the view from my Bike seat.... |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11604
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 7:57 am: |
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I think the question of parking and traffic relates to how you view downtown Maplewood.
Is it a typical small town downtown where you pick up the paper, have dry cleaning done, buy bagels, get the kids ice cream after a game and go to the grocery store or is it now a destination location where you go to stroll and browse the shops and have dinner?
I have posted previously that if we are going to have dinner or go to the movies parking a five or ten minute walk away isn’t a big deal. However, if you are picking up the laundry and in a hurry, a ten minute walk is a different story all together.
Am I the only one who has circled a block several times and then given up in frustration and gone someplace else to do business?
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14398
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 8:12 am: |
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Smarty, I've cycled thousands of miles in NYC, Boston, and other places and have pretty thick nerves. Traffic in Maplewood can't rattle me. When people do boneheaded things, I shake my head and mutter under my breath, but I don't see anything fundamentally flawed about Maplewood traffic. I think Maplewood Ave in the village area is pretty tame, since it moves slowly enough not to be too dangerous. In fact, I find it to be the safest area in Maplewood.
The fact that a kid ran away from his father doesn't point to a flaw. These things happen.
In capacity planning, one rule says that if you aren't pushed to your limit at peak times, you have bought too much capacity. So the fact that it gets congested at peak times doesn't indicate a problem for me. It never takes more than about four minutes to go from Durand to Baker.
But your proposal does sound appealing. If we did it, we would need to add parking somewhere.
Bob K, you circled a single block and gave up? Sounds like a lack of creativity. I would try all the parking in a reasonable distance before giving up. No, I have never given up in Maplewood Village for lack of parking, but then again, I've only been here three years.
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Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 681
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 8:25 am: |
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Tom, as a cyclist, I'll guess that you probably don't cylce through down during Business rush hour, no? Therefor, your view would be remarkably different than mine... and I'll acknowledge it's not even close to biking along 42nd and Broadway.
My imaginary plan is predicated on replacing the $3 NJT daily lot with 1 hour muni lot parking. This allows you to pitch the street parking out the door.....which allows you to widen the sidewalks.....which allows business' to expand their offerings to us and become more attractive...... |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11607
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 9:02 am: |
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ON weekends the best place to get a parking place downtown is on the other side of the tracks in the commuter spaces along Dunnel. I thank Jerry Ryan for that advise. Still, if you are dropping off cleaning or heading for Kings, that is kind of inconvenient.
As I said, what does downtown what to be when it grows up.
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14400
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 9:11 am: |
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Dunnell St isn't as far from Kings as are the outer spaces in the Livingston Mall are from your destination inside the mall. But it seems farther, because you're crossing so many property lines.
As Joan points out, the problem isn't the problem, the problem is perception of what's reasonable. One example is crossing lots of small properties seems bad, but if you measured the distance, you'd be embarrassed to complain about how many meters or how many minutes you walked.
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Spqr
Citizen
Username: Spqr
Post Number: 87
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 1:55 pm: |
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We routinely avoid downtown Maplewood by car on the weekends because of the traffic and congestion. The issue for us is not the car traffic alone or the pedestrian traffic alone, but the combination of the two along with the wacky intersections like the one by the ice cream store and the numerous cross walks (which, as a pedestrian, I love). The combination of all those factors on a Saturday afternoon when everyone is out in full force is too much for me. I am too worried about hitting a little kid darting into the street as I'm trying to dodge the one idiot cutting in front of me at that ice cream intersection while trying to avoid the other idiot who just slammed on his breaks and came to a full stop on Maplewood Ave because he thinks he sees a little old lady approaching her parked car with her packages and therefore a space might possibly open up (don't give a thought to the fact that its going to take that little old lady 15 minutes to actually get to her car, open up the trunk, place her packages just so...and then decide she needs to go to another store and isn't moving her car after all!). I find it easier to navigate Mid-town Manhattan and Route 22 than downtown Maplewood on a Saturday afternoon. |
Larry Seltzer
Citizen
Username: Elvis
Post Number: 8
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 7:46 pm: |
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On the weekend just park on the other side of the train tracks. Easy. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14471
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 8:06 pm: |
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spqr, you make me laugh, depicting little Maplewood Village as worse than midtown and Rt 22. How dramatic! If so many of us are NYC transplant, have we lost our nerves of steel?
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Nohero
Supporter
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 5445
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 9:53 pm: |
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As Mr. Seltzer points out, on the weekend there are a lot more spots on the other side of the tracks.
Weekend traffic woes are not the reason to build a parking deck, which would also be on the other side of the tracks (and further away from the existing spaces). |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11628
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 7:46 am: |
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Actually, my suggestion for a deck would be in the lot on the west side of the tracks behind the stores from Arturo's up to Village Coffee. If the USPS ever moves out of their building on MW Avenue I suspect more parking is going to be needed to support the store(s) that would move in.
As I have said over and over a lot depends on what downtown whats to be when it grows up. I lived in MW long enough to remember when you went downtown to drop off the dry cleaning and shirts laundered, went to the hardware store, bought papers and such, etc. Now it seems to be almost like a tourist village, "Oh, look at the quaint stores" sort of place.
I agree with Tom that parking on Dunnel and walking isn't a big deal. However, if you are running down to the drycleaners at half-time of a Giants game and want to get home, the time is onerous. |
Spqr
Citizen
Username: Spqr
Post Number: 88
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 11:10 am: |
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Tom, I'm glad I could make you laugh. I haven't lossed my "nerves of steel", I am just judicious in my risk taking, and quite frankly the risk of hitting a child pedestrian in downtown Maplewood is far greater, in my opinion, than hitting a child pedestrian on Route 22 or midtown Manhattan. Here's my experience: how many times I have almost hit a child darting in front of my car on Route 22 - 0 times; how many times I have almost hit a child darting in front of my car in midtown Manhattan (where I now often drive) - 0 times; how many times I have almost hit a child darting in front of my car on Maplewood Ave - 2 times. So not dramatic for me, Tom, just my real experience observations. As far as Manhattan transplants, it never was a worry there since most of us didn't have cars. As for the suggestions of parking on Dunnell during those peak times, that is a good suggestion and one that I already use sometimes. But more often, I walk. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11636
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 11:22 am: |
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I don't think I have ever had a kid dart out in the street in front of me in downtown Maplewood, but it is something I always worry about because of the narrow sidewalks and the tons of little kids around. It is just one more thing you have to scan for along with overly bold pedestrians, people backing out of parking spaces, people stopping to let Aunt Polly out in front of the truss store, etc. |
Lydia
Supporter
Username: Lydial
Post Number: 1891
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 11:54 am: |
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About darting out between cars - 100% of the time the "darters" are adults, ahlf the time with children in tow.
The solution is education - zero tolerance for jaywalking. Give out reminders to jaywalkers, and eventually fines.
I don't see middleschoolers or HS kids crossing anywhere except on the cross
walks - why? I assume it's because they've been taught it's dangerous. Time to remind adults it's equally as dangerous when they jaywalk and a bad example for kids.
Sometimes you have to take your car to the village, but if 20 people a day chose to walk when they have to go to the post office or make a little errand, that would start to open up spaces.
Agree with Tom that a lot of the parking "far away" from the village (like on the other side of the train tracks) is just a perception that people have to change.
The Parking crunch can be eased (if there is one) with a few tweaks here and there, investing in a parking deck should be the absolute last resort, after we try simple and less disruptive solutions. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11638
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 5:20 pm: |
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Actually Lydia, the middle schoolers aren't the problem. The problem is the pre-schoolers and the elementary school kids who tend to get away from Mommy while she drinks her latte and talks with her friends. The curvy part of the sidewalk by Arturos and Schrivner's is especially narrow and dangerous imho.
As I asked before and will surely ask again, what does downtown want to be when it grows up?
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ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 5136
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 11:12 pm: |
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I had no problem parking in town today... BTW, was I the only Moler parked in the middle of Maplewood Avenue for almost 10 minutes while a trailer tried to back into King's driveway this afternoon? |
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