| Author |
Message |
    
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1071
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 12:32 pm: |     |
Yesterday morning at the Maplewood Chamber of Commerce breakfast meeting, the guest speaker was Paul Kieltyka, Executive Director of the South Mountain YMCA. One of the subjects discussed was the YMAC’s long-standing pursuit of obtaining their own swimming pool. In past years, the YMAC has used the swimming pool at Columbia High School.
I offered a proposal that the South Mountain YMCA, in continued cooperation with the Township of Maplewood and the Board of Education, could achieve its goal to provide year round swimming by enclosing the present Maplewood Community Pool. I have already reached out for information from the Twin Oaks Tennis Club on Columbia Turnpike who has a cover they use nine months a year that covers four of their tennis courts. The prospect is reasonable, very achievable, and can be ready for use this fall.
Therefore, rather than raising and investing over eight million dollars in locating and building an Olympic size pool of their own, the “Y” could raise the necessary funds just to cover our community pool nine months a year. The need for parking, locker rooms and bathrooms, and of course the swimming pool itself would no longer be necessary. This could also open the possibility that the entire community could get access through the “Y” and also use the pool, thus generating additional income for the township in the process.
This is what you call using our town resources to their best advantage. Year round community swimming, dog run, skate park, and no additional cost to our taxpayers. So there you have it, another “Perfect Solution.”
Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated to move this project forward.
Thank you. Art
|
jgberkeley
Supporter
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 2951
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 10:43 pm: | |
Having been in the swiming pool buisness for 6 years in California, I think this is a pretty good idea.
It is doable if the design is a removable shelter with heating equipment. It is cheaper than building a new venue. I would pay a reasonable fee to be part of it.
How would the impact your skate park? |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1072
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 9:35 am: | |
Thanks George, the whole idea is based on it being removable. The tennis court site I mentioned has done it successfully for years.
I also believe a four-acre site in Morris County is considering using a removable cover for a soccer field. It’s the only way to go. If you think about it, given the twenty-five year successful history of our 8,000 member, self sustaining community utility, you won’t be alone in wanting to be a part of it.
BTW, the dog and skate parks at the pool were only meant to be temporary sites. I believe the approval by the TC for both these ideas were more like trial balloons. All of these dreams require a sustained effort on behalf of small groups of volunteers. They both have difficult up-hill battles to collect money, agree on locations, and maintain collective interest. The TC needs to be careful because without it, it becomes a township maintenance and control issue that winds up costing the township tax dollars.
What I like about the YMCA involvement is, they raise the money and run the program, the residents get the benefits and the town stands to save, if not earn some income in the process.
However, my experience tells me that without wide support, this suggestion will fall by the wayside like so many others before it. Hey, an idea like this doesn't take a lot of thought to comment on it one way or the other. You either like it, or you don't.
There is no comment yet from any TC official? Maybe they haven't seen it yet?  |
njjoseph
Supporter
Username: Njjoseph
Post Number: 1904
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 9:54 am: | |
Art, I like the idea, but have some questions. There may not be answers yet, but they are things that would need to be worked out:
Would the Y have access year round, or only during the 9 months that the pool is currently closed?
If so, would this create a strain on the pool during the summer months? At that time, we would have the increased membership of anyone who would be eligible to join the Y.
Would the regular members need to join the Y or enroll in one of their swimming programs to use the pool during off-months? |
drewdix
Citizen
Username: Drewdix
Post Number: 303
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 10:51 am: | |
there may also be some pool neigbors that may not like the prospect of the add'l traffic and activity extended past the Summer season.
Lifeguards may also be unrealized overhead. Maplewood pool uses school aged lifeguards who basically dictate the (too short) season now because of their school obligations. We would possibly have to hire adults in the "off" season, and is that more expensive? |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1075
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 12:00 pm: | |
Thank you Njjoseph,
My idea is that the YMCA would only offer swimming classes and the like during the nine months that the pool is closed. I believe that the "Y" is mainly interested in providing services to the community. Being that it already works in cooperation with the township now with their AQUATICS programs, I don't see any problem there. The town already has a good program in place for the summer activities anyway.
Not unlike the “Y” curriculum in place now, memberships would be separate from the township, and all additional programs would be scheduled in cooperation with each other. I imagine that all those memberships details could worked out between the “Y” and township if they want to move this idea forward.
Drewdix, I doubt that traffic or any problems with neighbors would ever be an issue. First of all the pool site will be totally enclosed, and it has no residential neighbors close enough to cause a problem. Also, the town already allows the neighbors in the area parking privileges as it is. One should not bite the hand that feeds it.
The lifeguards and all personnel would be the responsibility of the YMCA. This and all expenses would be consistent with any pool they were to build on their own. The good news for the ”Y” is the huge savings they will realize in a myriad of areas. Just as an example construction costs, 12 month operational costs, and property taxes...
|
sac
Citizen
Username: Sac
Post Number: 727
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 12:56 pm: | |
I think it's a great idea if the inevitable kinks can be worked out. I have wished for a year-round facility where we could not only have lessons, but also family and fitness swimming and I suspect that all of these would be available, consistent with other YMCAs that do have pools. I tried the West Essex YMCA in Livingston last year, but even at just 15-20 minutes away, it was too hard to get there regularly to take advantage of the pool. |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1077
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 4:17 pm: | |
Sac,
You're so right. Why should we have to go to Livingston when we have one of the best pools in the country right here in our own town? (BTW, it's paid in full)
Well, with your support Sac, the count is now 5 to 0 in favor. Wait a minute... Just think about the POWER we have with 5 positive votes!
* If all 5 of us were on the Board of Adjustment, I'd still have my B&B...
* If all 5 of us were on the township committee we would have a year round pool, and parking on both sides of Elmwood Ave... Hip, Hip, Hooray!!!
Who would ever think when we pull that lever every November how much power we’re giving to just five people here in town!
Now if we can just get a response from the three amigos, maybe we can all go swimming next winter after a long day shoveling snow. (Majority rules, any 3 of the 5 will do.)
Isn’t Maplewood a great town! It’s not hard to figure why we were voted one of the best places to live in America. |
aquaman
Citizen
Username: Aquaman
Post Number: 72
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 7:48 pm: | |
Art,
Why are you the only one in town with ideas for economic development and practical quality of life improvement plans? You should run for public office. I love the pool idea. Course, I am Aquaman..... |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1079
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2003 - 1:02 am: | |
Thank you Aquaman, but I've been there and done that...
Running for public is a great experience, and I recommend it to anyone interested in pressing the flesh and willing to give "Service Above Self."
The truth is anyone really interested in their community, can be just as effective off the committee as they can on it! We have a great town and many dedicated volunteers that impact us in a very positive way. Therefore, if you're willing to throw some crap on the wall, sooner or later some of it will stick...
Hopefully, the pool idea is something that will stick. BTW, after being self-employed for over forty years, business is my name and economic development is my game! |
Ed May
Citizen
Username: Edmay
Post Number: 1264
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2003 - 2:55 am: | |
For years I have thought about putting a "dome" over the Maplewood Pool and creating a tropical paradise inside year round. Complete with a jacuzzi (just for adults) and other amenities. Did not actually think it could be economical. Worth thinking about!
Ed May |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1081
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2003 - 10:45 am: | |
Ed,
I agree it’s worth thinking about, but better yet, lets do something about it. It’s never too late to put into action an idea whose time has come!
As Sac said earlier, it's a great idea if the inevitable kinks can be worked out. The benefits are obvious, it’s the downside we should be concentrating on now. So, I'd like to encourage everyone to post any possible objection they can think of.
Typically, the powers that be on both sides of any new suggestions for change will almost immediately want to “THINK” about it. However, other things on their agendas must be dealt with first, and something always manages to come up that seems more important to someone else. This is where many great ideas die a slow and agonizing death.
Don’t underestimate the value of the open and public discussions on MOL. Our input can shave months, even years off a suggestion like this. Persistence and follow-up will always prevail over weakness and procrastination. If we want this to happen, we can’t allow the idea to get bogged down in endless rounds of bi-monthly committee meetings.
There are thinkers, talkers, and doers. It’s not like anyone on the township committee has to physically do something. Once the talking is over and the decision is made, the responsibility is delegated and the committee can move on to the next dozen items on their lists.
One more thing, please keep in mind this idea can have a life outside of the players suggested thus far. Not unlike the food concession at the pool in the summer, any public private partnership can be negotiated to run the program. Therefore, in the absents of all the many contributors on MOL coming up with any major downside to this idea, the next few steps will be very important in deciding who approaches who first. Any suggestions on how to move forward?
PS:
After 48 hours of no response from any town official, does anyone feel this thread should be moved from “Official Maplewood,” to the Soapbox? Not that I think the TC has to respond to ever new idea presented for the good of the community, but it’s not like these ideas come along every day? Hey, how much time does one need to respond to a good or bad idea?
GWB gave SH 48 hours, and that was to get out of Iraq! Sorry, I couldn't resist... |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1092
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 7:07 pm: | |
Still no comments?
Well, last night I managed to find out that the idea to cover the pool was considered by the township committee many years ago, but the concern at that time was whether enough people would be interested to cover the costs... Due to a lack of interest back then the idea was dropped.
If the lack of comments by all the regulars on this Board is any indication of lack of interest, then I guess we have our answer! The only other thought would be to put it on a referendum and run it by the voters in the Fall. Unfortunately, even that will take some public interest in the idea.
Is there any interest folks??? |
Flt
Citizen
Username: Flt
Post Number: 20
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 7:49 pm: | |
One of the nice things about the pool is that it is outdoors. Close it in and it becomes a big room of chlorine. We want the sun, thanks. |
jfburch
Citizen
Username: Jfburch
Post Number: 479
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 10:17 pm: | |
Flt, I think the idea is to use a removable cover in the cool/cold months and keep it an open pool in the summer--yes?
I could be interested--depending upon costs, hours, ambiance, and etc.
I am a regular swimmer and have found a place to swim that works for me, so the question would be, would this compete favorably?
It's a hands down winner on location for me, but the other factors are hard to gauge at this point.
I do use the M'wood pool in the summer. |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1093
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 11:37 pm: | |
Flt,
Yes... no cover, just an open pool in the summer, run by the town, the same as it has operated from the beginning. The Fall and Winter sessions would be run by the YMCA, or an independent contractor.
Jfburch,
As a regular swimmer with a place to swim that works for you, maybe you would be willing to help us get a handle this idea?
Can you tell us what costs you're paying now?
What hours are available to you at your present location?
What kind of ambiance do you feel is necessary?
Do you know summer members that would use the pool in the off season?
Is there anything else that you would want to see?
Thanks. Art.
|
jfburch
Citizen
Username: Jfburch
Post Number: 480
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 1, 2003 - 1:30 pm: | |
Cost runs about 50 a month for a family membership--which includes lots of stuff besides swimming, but swimming is my primary use, and the reason we joined.
Hours are 6am to 10 pm weekdays and somewhat shorter days on the weekends. Lap swimming is always available--and that's a big plus. I've managed over the years at other places with more limited lap hours--typically early am, lunch hour, and early evening--but a) that made for often overcrowded swimming and b) I prefer to fit swimming into my schedule rather than schedule around available swim times.
Ambiance: lanes are not overcrowded, locker room is clean and pleasant enough for me to shower and dress after swimming (instead of coming home to do it), pool is well maintained and cleaned--meaning doesn't reek of chlorine or mold and mildew.
A sauna would be great--I don't currently have access as it costs too much extra.
On-site babysitting during some weekday hours is a plus I use at my current pool.
Long term (as opposed to daily) locker rental for a modest fee is important.
I know at least one person who swims summers only and would probably like to be able to do it year round. But, I do wonder if there are a sufficient number of like minds to make the individual cost reasonable.
And finally, I use the M'wood pool in the summer--mostly with my kids, and love it, but I still do my serious lap swimming elsewhere so I'd want to know that I could manage my routine year round which might make the summer vs. Fall/Winter differences an issue. |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1096
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 2, 2003 - 2:57 am: | |
Jfburch,
Thank you. The information will be very helpful going forward... Does anyone else want to add anything? |
pmart
Citizen
Username: Pmart
Post Number: 67
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 2, 2003 - 9:51 am: | |
I like the idea of utilizing existing resources. However I was just wondering...
1) Will the Y be responsible for insurance during the 9 month period the pool is to be used by them?
2) Will the town be liable for anything, and thus require additional insurance?
3) Damages to the pool, pool facilities and parking lot to be covered by Y?
4) Installation and un-installation costs for tent to be covered by Y? Tent storage in off-season?
5)What happens to Y's swim classes for the summer months when the pool reverts back to tentless, town pool? Back to CHS?
6) Any price breaks for pool members for Y classes at the pool in the off months? Especially since part of pool membership goes toward pool/facility improvements.
7) Will Y clean and provide pool/lot maintenance during winter months? Shovel lot in snow?
8) Any costs at all to be picked up by town?
that's it for now. thanks |
barleyrooty
Citizen
Username: Barleyrooty
Post Number: 571
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 2, 2003 - 12:52 pm: | |
I have been wondering for awhile why we don't have a good indoor swimming facility nearby (unless I just haven't found it - maybe jfburch has - care to share the name of it jf?). Most other suburbs seem to, and most of them seem to be Y's.
It seems to me like it should be easy for the Y to bring in sufficient revenue to cover all the associated costs and probably pay the town for the use of the pool as well as sharing improvements. I base this opinion on the fact that other Ys can run multimillion dollar new constructions which should be way more expensive.
I can see why the town wouldn't want to run this, but I can definitely see why the Y would. There may even be revenue left over for some fun stuff like water slides.
I don't see why the town would even think twice if the Y makes an attractive proposal. What's the downside? The Y should be willing to bear the risk (financial) where the town might not (political).
Awesome idea.
|
jfburch
Citizen
Username: Jfburch
Post Number: 484
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 2, 2003 - 2:38 pm: | |
(Barleyrooty, we go to the JCC in West Orange.) |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1102
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 2, 2003 - 8:27 pm: | |
Pmart,
I think Barleyrooty covered your questions pretty good; it will all come down to negotiations in the end anyway.
BTW, other than the fear that the Y might not sign up enough membership to cover the expenses is the only concern I’ve heard yet.
The fact is if it fails for that reason, it's best they didn't build an eight million dollar white elephant. |
barleyrooty
Citizen
Username: Barleyrooty
Post Number: 574
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 4:39 am: | |
Thanks jf. So do we! JCC is not at all a bad place but the pool facility is pretty old (well, if it's not, it looks old). I hear the further facility in Whippany is even nicer but I haven't tried it yet. |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1106
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 3:27 pm: | |
Tell the truth, doesn't life go along much easier when people pay attention to each other?
Today's a week without comment from the TC on an interesting concept to provide improved community activities. This idea could also generate income for the town from local residents now spending time and money in neighboring communities. I guess this is a learning experience when dealing with town government on-line.
I should know better... The way to get the committee’s attention is during the “Public Comment” sessions at the township committee meeting.
ATTENTION MOL: Official Maplewood appears to no longer be an "Official" place to communicate opinion, or receive comment from members of our township committee!
It's time for the Soapbox... I’ve seen it over and over again where on-line comments regarding life in Maplewood only extort comments from members of the township committee when they feel like it.
However, if you pay attention, the TC meetings are not much different. With the committee’s recent town-wide SNUB regarding the anti-war resolution they passed, it’s obvious it didn’t matter to them what residents were requesting. The fact is none of the five even offered a comment after residents on both sides of the issue spoke, and requested relief.
They also bye passed the public debate between themselves as to whether they should respond to the resident input. So it appears they must have had to come to that agreement, not to comment, from behind closed doors prior to the public meeting!
Therefore, if they had already decided they were not going to comment, then why did they bother to take the time to listen? Like before, their minds were already made up anyway. I believe that’s called patronizing us…
This is an excellent example of arrogance and pure political power. Our five elected representatives make decisions that effect our lives, and in many cases our businesses and our income. However, they only respond to us at the public comment sessions, and only then if and when they damn well please.
“Fairness in Dealing” is an issue I campaigned strongly for last year. Are our questions too stupid, or is our presence too upsetting for them? We elect and expect the TC to serve us openly and fairly. They also gave their word to serve us all equally. Therefore, I don’t care who, or where it is, or even what the comments or questions are, I believe every resident in town deserves a timely response from all our elected representatives when asked. If this isn’t true, then who, and what the hell do they represent us for anyway?
It really sucks if you think about it!
PS:
While I’m on a roll, one last thing, with all the debate about the war on MOL, has anyone observed any meaningful comments from our elected officials on any of the many on going threads about the war? Isn’t this the same group who previously had so visibly represented all Maplewood residents on the matter from their seat on high? |
grw
Citizen
Username: Grw
Post Number: 92
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 8, 2003 - 9:43 am: | |
Not to drift too much, but another issue the town needs to address is the recreation activities the town "runs", for example, we almost didn't have a baseball league for the kids this year due to lack of interest or going to the South Orange League. A group of concerned parents got together and pretty much took over the program, we now have over 500 kids signed up, they will be getting full uniforms, thanks to fundraising efforts. What we can't do is fix the fields, they are in dire need of repair, this is something the TC needs to step in and help us.
P.S.
The year round pool idea is great |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1127
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 8, 2003 - 5:44 pm: | |
Grw,
Good for you guys, even better... good for our kids! From what you posted, it's rewarding to see there's no lack of enthusiasm by your group of volunteers to keep the baseball program alive in our town.
Unfortunately, it appears someone will need to appear before the TC to request the additional assistance needed. If no one from your group is available, I’d be willing to speak out for you at the next TC meeting...
That being said, please excuse a lengthy response to your drift, but in the past it was commonplace for Vic and Jerry to both work and play with us on MOL. I can't tell you why this inter-action has all but stopped, but it's regrettable that it has. Their counterpart, Mrosner, much to his credit, continues to faithfully reply to all questions and comments posted on South Orange Specific.
IMHO, public servants have an important responsibility to respond to our residents in a timely manner. As you can see there are presently several issues without their comment in Official Maplewood. I certainly think within a day or so, at least one of the five could provide a comment of some kind. Often their response to our questions, complaints, and comments are of interest to many other residents besides the one who asks them, thus the value of a public response. Can you imagine the time it would take to answer the same question 500 different times?
With the invent of the Internet and MOL, it should nolonger be necessary for individuals to write the TC, or to be required to attend TC Bi-Monthly Meetings, or to sit through hours of discussions and debate on unrelated matters,just to ask if and when 500 kids can get their baseball fields put in shape for the coming season.
To make matters worst, even if one was to attend their meetings, the TC still doesn’t have to respond immediately during the Public Comment session. This lack of open communication by some of our local officials boggles my mind. I think it’s more about posturing; another words, not responding is just a lot of arrogant political BS.
In contrast, one of the things I’ve noticed about Fred and Ian is they seem to think on their feet. They speak their minds without any apparent prior collaboration with the other three on the committee. Now if we can also just get them to respond to us on line, life in Maplewood could be beautiful again...
As a closing thought, maybe the reason Vic and Jerry stopped participating on line is the pending election. Although I disagreed, I know my political party was not at all in favor of my activity on line. If you recall, last year Fred and Ian also stayed clear of MOL except for the formal questions from Dave Ross.
Hey, I lost the election so maybe someone else can figure out what’s going on? However, it sure seems a little early in the campaign for them to be acting as Lame Ducks?
|
|
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page