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Message |
    
Mark Salamon
Citizen
Username: Maybe_moving
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 10:44 pm: |     |
(Note: I have posted this message in both the “South Orange Specific” and “Official Maplewood” forums.)
My family is thinking of moving to South Orange or Maplewood in the next 6 months -- from the Upper West Side -- which must be a first.  We have already visited the towns to get a sense of them and have a few friends who live there who we have peppered with questions.
I am trying to determine how much it will REALLY cost us to live in either town. Information about regular home ownership stuff I can do myself. But the tax-related details are difficult to pin down. So I was hoping someone could give me details on the following, for the town in which this message is posted:
(a) Property taxes seem very high. I have heard rumours that taxes are likely to go up a lot this year (or have already done so?) and will go up a lot again next year. Is this true, and, if so, can I get details, such as the percentage increase, by the type of property tax?
(b) I also know that the property taxes are a combination of things, including school taxes, municipal taxes and county taxes. Can someone give me the correct breakdown, in approximate percentages, of each type of tax, in the overal tax bill? Also, if taxes have/are going up a lot, which of the taxes are we talking about, school, municipal and/or county.
(c) I know that water, sewer and garbage pickup are not included in the property taxes. Can someone give me an idea of what each of these costs per month.
(d) I have also heard that Maplewood recently did a property valuation reassessment. Is this true? How often do these occur? What were the increases like? When is South Orange scheduled to do their reassessment? (I ask this question on the assumption that a reassessment is likely to raise everyone’s taxes.)
(e) Are there any other types of taxes/fees specific to South Orange and/or Maplewood that I should be aware of?
Finally, and this is broader question, for residents of the two towns, can you give me the plusses and minuses (if any) of moving to SO-M, and perhaps some description of how the two towns differ. And if anyone has a recommendation about the best neighborhoods to live in in SO-M (not too expensive neighborhoods), that would be appreciated.
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AZ
Citizen
Username: Azaltsman
Post Number: 200
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 11:24 pm: | |
Mark,
I moved to Maplwood from UPW 6 months ago so I was faced with the same questions as you have. Here are my experiences:
1. Our taxes were 12K and went up to 13K this year. As for the reval - I found that to be a sore topic here since people that have lived here much longer then I have were more greatly affected. I would do a search under "reval" or someone can probably post a link to some good threads on this topic. Unfortunately, the school taxes take most of the money. The insanity in NJ is that the schools get almost no money from the state. Since there are few ratables (businesses contributing to the tax base) in Maplewood the taxpayers have the burden to pay for the schools and the rest of the tax components. The rest is divided for municipal and county taxes. You get one tax bill for all components. There is an upcoming election for new members of the town council in November. Who knows? Maybe SOMEONE will take control of our absurd school taxes.
2. Expect to pay about $70/quarter for garbage. The leaves during spring/summer were $45 extra this year. Garbage is twice a week. Garbage collection is paid to Waste Management.
3.Water expenses are relative to the how much water you use. Our bill is around $30/month. We have no kids.
4. There is a sewer charge of $150 per year.
I have found Maplewood to be a very nice place to live. But that comes with a price. You get more for your money here then you would in an area like Millburn/Short Hills (considerably lower taxes because of the Short Hills Mall's ratable value) or Montclair (taxes are a little less but generally similar). The Midtown Direct trains here are awesome because they are non-stop to Penn Station, NYC.
Also, you have the Maplewood Village "downtown" area, which I personally find superior to neighboring towns. If you choose to live in a part of Maplewood that is within walking distance I think you will find the walk the Maplewood Ave pleasant and refreshing compared to walking down Broadway or West End Ave.
Private line me if you want any additional details on our UPW to Maplewood experience.
Sincerely,
Alex |
Alex Christou
Citizen
Username: Christou1
Post Number: 3
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 9:15 am: | |
We moved in last November, and so far we really like it. The positives include great location, generally well kept houses, and a nice community feel. The negatives include less than spectacular schools (Although I expect this to get better as the city further gentrifies),and taxes also seem a little out of whack (about 250 basis points). Good-luck. |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2002
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 1:35 pm: | |
The answers to your how-much-does-it-cost questions will vary somewhat depending on the property you select, the size of your family, whether you have school aged children and whether they will be enrolled in the public schools, the amount of garbage you generate, gas/oil/ electric/water/phone service you use, etc.
I would suggest that you sit down with one or more of the better realtors in town and ask them to help you develop a costing.
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Mark Salamon
Citizen
Username: Maybe_moving
Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 11:05 pm: | |
Joan,
Thanks for your comments. I realize that the costs of living in SO/M (or anywhere) are a function of all of those things. However, I wasn't too concerned about things like utilities, phone, etc., as I recognize those costs will be relatively equal anywhere, or at least are not a function of living in SO/M. I was more concerned about things like sewer, water and garbage collection, and the taxes and tax increases, that are SO/M-specific. AZ gave me some useful figures (clearly, ballpark figures that may vary in my given situation). I'm still trying to get a handle on the tax situation, such as how much they have/will go up this year and next and when an assessment is expected, which will likely increase everyone's taxes. If you have more info on the taxes, I would greatly appreciate it. |
davel
Citizen
Username: Davel
Post Number: 95
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 1:30 am: | |
Mark,
An assessment will not necessarily increase your taxes. In Maplewood the assessment did not bring in any additional tax revenue, but it resulted in the tax burden shifting, sometimes substantially among homes. Given that some homes appreciated at a much higher rate than others over a long period of time, many people had their taxes go up by thousands. Others had them decline by thousands. Others had little or no change. Supposedly Maplewood Township has an updated electronic database of home valuations. THerefore decades do not have to go by before another reassessment.
Apparently a town-wide assessment can impact the town's share of county property taxes. But I don't think that makes such a large impact to changing the amount of a family's property tax bill. |
Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 98
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 5:30 am: | |
If you use http://wwww.gsmls.com, when they list the property "list" price, they generally show you the current property taxes. We moved here in March, and I found this site invaluable in that way. Too, if you use things like realtor.com, they have features that give you a sense of the whole package against whatever mortgage plus taxes you can afford.
I found utilities, cable, phone, food etc. pretty much comparable to where I used to live, south of here in another state. Car insurance is higher than I am accustomed to, and that can be a shock for some.
Other shocks, given where I came from: (1) Do not expect to bargain down from list on a house; generally house price bids up (unless perhaps you're in the $750K+ realm), (2) You will not be competitive in your offer if you have any contingency, (3) expect to put down minimum of 10% prior to closing. As I said, I came from a far less competitive housing market, and these were big surprises.
Other surprises, some of which you can mitigate: Most houses, especially in the starter market (under $350K) are older and often need extensive attention; get a really thorough home inspection, and plan on having $5K to $10K on hand just to see to infrastructure issues related to plumbing, dead outlets, cracked windows and related. We dropped money right away on plumbing and electricity. Check out your prospective neighborhood at different times of the week/day to make sure there's as many or as few kids as you'd like to make you feel at home. My street doesn't have enough. |
AZ
Citizen
Username: Azaltsman
Post Number: 202
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 8:27 am: | |
Mark,
Here is a good web site where you can read about the school tax situation in Maplewood:
http://members.aol.com/njfabian/
Not sure if you have a car in NYC but if you do, don't expect any large decreases in your insurance for living in Essex County. |
eliz
Citizen
Username: Eliz
Post Number: 616
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 5:12 pm: | |
One thing I didn't properly budget for was the cost to heat our drafty old house! Ask to see the current owners PSEG bills for Jan/Feb/Mar.
Also keep in mind that that general upkeep of these old houses is hard to quantify. There is always something that needs to be fixed and we have a long list of upgrades that we would love to do if we had the money. |
xavier67
Citizen
Username: Xavier67
Post Number: 269
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 6:03 pm: | |
Eliz: EVERY house, not just "these old houses," need constant upkeep. I have lived in several new houses (some brand new, some less than 10 years old) that required similar amount of work as my current 1927 Dutch Colonial. What's the phrase? "They sure don't make 'em like they used to"?
Mark: Approximately 58% of our town taxes go towards the schools; about 22% go to the town; and the 18% go to the county. (FYI: County merely takes, they don't contribute to the town fiscally.) in terms of increase, your guess is probably as good as mine. Given our current economic condition, it's reasonable to expect 5-7% annual increase in your tax bill for next several years. But that's just a guess. Bobk--want to chime in?
On the up side, after moving to Maplewood/SO you'll find that your budget for dining will drop substantially because there are very few decent takeout places here. Every couple of days, I find myself leafing through the same 6-7 menus, wishing there were more and better choices. Then I just pop something into the microwave!
Feel free to privateline me if you want. Otherwise, hope to see you eventually in our towns! |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 3602
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 8:47 am: | |
OK Xavier I will take the challenge, although this is all my opinion.
Town Taxes – Should remain relatively flat with a maximum of around a 2% increase. The Profetistas should control the TC next year and they seem committed to keeping taxes reasonable. This can all change if there is a bomb hidden somewhere in the projections, which seems to be the case in South Orange. If the Republican’s place one or two members on the TC in the elections they will not have the power to cut taxes as promised.
County – To me it has always seemed that the county took great joy in socking it to Maplewood. Remember the “open space” charge tacked on at the last minute in the year the reval became effective? Currently the TC seems to be in favor with Newark, having delivered Maplewood to the Joey D camp in his campaign for County Executive. I recall seeing a tentative distribution of the county revenue increases by town a few months ago and Maplewood faired very well. The Mayor and Mr. Ryan didn’t have good relationships with the county organization, while this is probably very much to their credit, I think it hurt Maplewoodians in their pocketbook. Maybe 2%?
Schools – This is a wildcard. Enrollment figures should have been released yesterday, but I don’t think anyone has seen them. If enrollment is up it would be very hard for Ms. Leventhal to keep her pledge of keeping the increase to inflation. Realistically, assuming that there hasn’t been a big spike in enrollment, around 5% to 7%.
On a proportional basis this works out to be around 5%, which is still $1,000 for someone with a $20,000 tax bill, not all of whom are incredibly wealthy investment bankers.
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ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 1563
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 9:11 am: | |
Pre-reval $11,000 in taxes for the ffof family.
Post re-val $16,500 in taxes for the ffof family (not that there shouldn't have been a reval...)
3 years later $21,000 in taxes for the ffof family
oh lord, won't you buy me, a Mercedes Benz... |
xavier67
Citizen
Username: Xavier67
Post Number: 270
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 3:22 pm: | |
I feel your pain, ffof. But perhaps Mark S will buy a house that has seen its taxes GO DOWN after the reval? |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 1568
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 3:35 pm: | |
Well, I've been curious. Since mine have gone up practically $2000 per year since the reval, what has happened to someone whose reval tax went from $6000 to $4000? They must be back up to the former number by now, no? And everyone in the middle whose taxes didn't really change significantly, their taxes must be ginormous now too.
Anyone? |
johnny
Citizen
Username: Johnny
Post Number: 751
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 10:08 am: | |
Everyone's taxes have gone up the same percentage since the reval in Maplewood.
As for expenses in Maplewood:
Garbage = $82 per quarter
Sewer = $150 per year
Water = $15 - $35 per month
Don't forget, at least in Maplewood, that you are responsible for the maintenance and repair of the public sidewalk in front of your house (an unfair form of double taxation if you ask me).
Taxes are made up of schools, county, and municipal. The schools is approximately 55% of the budget and the municipal and county portions are in the range of 20 - 25%. Taxes in Maplewood are going up approximately 5%.
There probably will not be another revaluation in Maplewood for several years. I don't know what South Orange's plans are. You should call the Town Hall.
Property taxes in Maplewood are approximately 3.25 x every $100,000 of assessed value. If the home is assessed at $400,000 then your taxes are about $13,000.
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grw
Citizen
Username: Grw
Post Number: 176
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 10:28 am: | |
You are also responsible for your CURBS in front of the house |
Tom Reingold the prissy-pants
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 893
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 2, 2003 - 4:36 pm: | |
Also, you may want to get a quote from a couple of car insurance companies. I pay more for my car than my wife pays for hers, and hers is insured in Manhattan! She still has an official residence there. Then again, my car is more expensive to insure, so it's not an apples-to-apples comparison, but it would be good to check first, anyway. Not that it makes a big difference compared to the bigger expenses.
Tom Reingold
There is nothing
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Tom Reingold the prissy-pants
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 894
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 2, 2003 - 4:37 pm: | |
Am I responsible for the LACK of a curb in front of my house? Mine seems to be the only one without one.
Tom Reingold
There is nothing
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Copihue
Citizen
Username: Cop
Post Number: 48
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 2, 2003 - 5:57 pm: | |
Although the revenues for the town may only need to go up 2% and the schools' another 5%, when we have another reevaluation this amount will be shifted among properties. To forecast what your dream house would do, I would suggest that you go to this same website >SOAPBOX>"Reeval 2-2.5 yrs later". There is a link to a data set. Have your realtor explain to you which neighborhood you would be in and then look at the worksheet "by VCS" and the column "average sale/assessment". If % is over 43.43%, the average, I would expect an increase in taxes at that time, if it is less, I would count of property taxes going down. |
eatapc
Citizen
Username: Eatapc
Post Number: 3
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 5:05 am: | |
Just got my PSE&G energy bill for the month: it topped $1000, up from $650 a year ago. The chart on the bill indicates lower usage this year than last, which makes sense given the new water heater and front door -- and the fact that I've turned the thermostat down to 60 degrees for much of the day and night to save energy.
I might start a thread on this topic, actually. |
Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 471
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 5:44 am: | |
Aside from the tax issue, if public schools are a consideration, make sure you find out which elementary and middle school your target property is zoned for -- and then, take the time to visit the school and check out some of the school data on the site AZ refers to, above.
Another thing I wish I'd done -- though I don't have the URL handy. Check out the detailed stats for types of crimes in your target NJ town. Not just the average, but the data by type. See how they compare to what you're accustomed to. Could be better, could be worse but it's better to know than not. Acceptability is in the eye of the beholder, and it's my impression that acceptabilty is a function of where the homeowner is moving from. |
mtierney
Citizen
Username: Mtierney
Post Number: 509
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 2:00 pm: | |
ffof it's a little late to respond to your October comment "And everyone in the middle whose taxes didn't really change significantly, their taxes must be ginormous now too," but I just noticed it.
Surely you could not have missed my frequent whining during the reval about those of us who live in the middle of Maplewood!!
My pre-reval taxes were $12K. I actually believed the reval would help us since I think over $12K was plenty already.
I was wrong. After the reval my taxes were $17,500! Today it is over $19K and I fear we may hit $20K yet.
I've lived in town (in two locations) for more than 30 years. Never heard about the east side v. west side before the reval. Of course, before the reval, we referred to various locations by which elementary school your kids attended.
Suddenly I learned I lived "in the middle" and we were pretty much ignored during the east v. west brouhaha.
I would like to know what happened to those folks who actually saw a decrease.
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Reflective
Citizen
Username: Reflective
Post Number: 346
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 6:45 pm: | |
mtierney
I live between Maplecrest park and Propsect. What I called the Middle Side. It was overlooked but not by the assessment.
I went from $8400 to $11,400 in propoerty taxes due to the re-val. A $3,000 jump in one year!
Sorry, to a few of that TC supporters. It is the property taxes stupid! Anbd still is, that's why Jerry and Vic aren't in Town Hall now.
Hopefully the BOE is beginning to tax itself out of a job, and elect three new tax sensitive board members. Pay attention - Bennett and Little. (If you want to win).
Mtierney, two people who saw such a decrease are Ken Pettis and Kathy Levethal, our two newest members on the TC ( Township Committee). On behalf of all of us, you should ask them.
Post script, Vic and gerry would still have a public trough job (Public Trough was gerry ryan's attack term against Grasmere, as in -he fed at the public trough), if they had been taxpayer sensitive, that is, phase in the property tax increase over three years, like many communities in other parts of the country do.
But in the end it was short term greed, imho, to get the voters in tax reduced areas to vote for them.
E Davenport immediately chose not to run, and the following year, B Lieberman and C King dropped out.
They would have been killed (by voting)in a re-election. Vic and gerry felt that 3 years later, no one would remember. Well, people did.
As old cronkite said , and that's the way it is! |
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