| Author |
Message |
    
Barbara
Real Name
Username: Blh
Post Number: 252
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 7:12 am: |     |
Sbenois, the Community Coalition doesn't support candidates. As an organization we don't run candidates, don't endorse candidates, don't donate funds to candidates. In the most recent board election, some of our trustees held coffees for different candidates. We voted for different candidates. In fact,two of the candidates serve(d) on our schools committee - one won, the other didn't. As an organization, we support positions - our litmus test is whether something is pro-integrative or segregative. Whether the trustee is conservative or liberal, Dem, Rep or Ind, South Orangian or Maplewoodian - we are all asked to view decisions to be made as trustees through that prism. |
fringe
Citizen
Username: Fringe
Post Number: 398
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 8:00 am: | |
First, I, too, thank Ms. Heisler-Williams and the CCR for defining their position in the letter to the BOE posted on the Education board. While I disagree with it, it leaves little doubt as to the organization's primary prisim. This is in contrast to the current Township position. By substituting the word diversity for race it has created a murky situation that raises more questions than it addresses. If Maplewood is to use diversity as a primary membership criteria for its committees, the word must be defined. If that means race alone, have the courage to say so.
The problems raised by establishing such a definition are illustrated in Ms. Heisler-Williams post immediately above in response to the those of Sbenois. The CCR letter to the BOE includes this:
* Finally, we urge you to consider the racial make-up of our schools as you appoint a member to fill the position that is being vacated by Mr. Clifford. People of color are under-represented in our governmental bodies. Since there are large numbers of highly qualified men and women of color in our community, it should be easy to find one of them that to fill the position. This would send a signal to all racial groups in the two towns that the Board is committed to dialogue with all members of the community as well as to equity and excellence for all of our children.
Did the CCR urge both the Democrats and Republicans to consider the racial make-up of the town when choosing their candidates. If not, why not? And after all, the primary is still a month away. It's not too late for Messrs. Huemer and Profeta and the members of the Maplewood Democratic Committee to rectify the current situation and select a black candidate.
In the post the executive director retreats from the position staked out in the BOE letter to a less controversial one. Here it appears the organization's test is a candidate's position on integration rather than skin color. So which should the BOE members be considering?
JTL
|
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 5384
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 8:04 am: | |
I think Barbara's position is very reasonable and I know that the CCR has any number of members and friends who are highly capable and committed to improving our community. While, depending on where you live in the two towns it often doesn't look it, this is very much a mixed race and mixed income town and the more representative of the community various groups are the better, as long as the people are committed and work well with other children.
I still have a problem when diversity is proposed solely for its own sake, where someone is put on a committee simply because of their skin color or ethnicity, or age.
|
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 2275
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 8:54 am: | |
I'll tell you what, when someone is picked solely for "diversity"(pick a meaning), it often backfires. In fact it backfires in two ways: 1)That person more often than not does not pull his/her weight and 2)the person passed over in the name of diversity, gets cynical and disillusioned thus losing a potentially great volunteer/leader.
|
Barbara
Real Name
Username: Blh
Post Number: 253
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 8:57 am: | |
Reflective -- Not sure who would be "rais(ing) their hands and ask(ing) why am I excluded?" The idea is to expand the pool, not to exclude anyone.
If we focus on "who is under-represented", no quotas, but where are we lacking representation - and work to get representation in those areas -- this whole conversation will become moot. It will become self-fulfilling that people of all groups will see that they are included, that they belong and are welcomed at the table, and will step forward much more easily. This works for racial inclusion as well as gender, political perspective, etc. It just takes some work to get there. |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 2277
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 9:07 am: | |
But Barbara- I have seen many times (not all times obviously) where someone felt "entitled" to a position so they get the position, because of everyone wanting to try and achieve inclusion as you've described, but it backfires. The people left holding the ball get bitter and often stereotypes get confirmed. |
Barbara
Real Name
Username: Blh
Post Number: 254
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 9:18 am: | |
ffof, I do know what you mean. But I think that is also driven by a perception of 'tokenism.' My goal would be to work for true inclusive representation, where the pool is large and includes many talented people -- goodness knows there are enough people of spectacular talent in every hue and persuasion in this community -- that we all win.
|
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 2279
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 9:39 am: | |
Okay, that is a worthy goal. But too often tokenism is what results.
(The experiences I am referring to above revolve around volunteering in the schools at the elem and middle school level, but I don't think I will go into specifics online) |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 2640
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 2:06 pm: | |
“The idea is to expand the pool, not to exclude anyone.”
Now this is more along the lines of what I’d like to see happen. Why, with such a large pool of volunteers do we have to limit ourselves to only one Board of Adjustment, or Planning Board? Why not have two? Applications often have to be scheduled months ahead to get heard. Important matters become more costly, and of course more frustrating. I’m sure there are other committee’s in town that could be duplicated as well.
BTW Fruitcake, I do qualify as a senior citizen, so some of you should cut an old guy like me some slack once in a while...
|
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2811
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 4:58 pm: | |
Barbara:
Sorry but I don't agree with you either. If people in this town feel excluded from public service because there aren't enough opportunities to meet everyone's need, then we should expand on the opportunities.
I think Art is going in the right direction when he suggests creating more positions, not to the point of creating multiple committees which would duplicate each other's efforts but in expanding the number of areas in which people could could volunteer their services.
A number of the service organizations in town are in danger of ceasing to exist because their membership, made up mostly of senior citizens, many of whom are in failing health, simply can't get enough members together to provide the functions mandated in their own charters. True, joining such an organization may not serveas a springboard to high elective office, but it would be a simple way to help your fellow citizens in Maplewood and in our larger community.
Thought could also be given to getting involved in services the town can't now provide due to budget restrictions or in providing services the town shouldn't be involved with directly. After school destinations/activities for latch key kids, visiting the infirm and the elderly, beautification of public spaces, expanding literacy programs, ESL, helping out at the First Aid Squad, developing and maintaining a community skills bank, mentoring a youth, the list is endless.
There is no reason to squabble over a few positions on a few committees.
|
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2812
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 5:04 pm: | |
Regarding refilling Mr. Clifford's position on the BOE, the job should go to the most qualified of the persons expressing interest in assuming the seat. Qualifications should be viewed more in terms of interpersonal skills, decision making ability, knowledge of the school district and its problems, problem solving abilities, etc. rather than age, race, religion, or nation of origin. |
kathy
Citizen
Username: Kathy
Post Number: 902
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 7:03 pm: | |
Joan, I don't think that anybody is "squabbling over a few positions on a few committees". Many Maplewood committees have unfilled slots. And as you note, a lot of other community organizations could also use more people. Is it too much to ask that, in looking to fill such positions, all segments of the community be recruited from? If you wait for people to come to you, you are likely to get the same old same old. (This kind of active recruitment is the real meaning of "affirmative action".)
So far, Mr. Lamkin's tale of "non-diverse" citizens being turned away is mere hearsay. |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2815
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 8:02 pm: | |
Kathy:
I agree that recruitment is an important aspect of the problem under discussion. I wonder how many people in Maplewood are even aware that these committees and other opportunities exist. But, increased publicity and more pro-active recruitment are not in and of themselves going to result in more "diverse" membership on the committees under discussion here. The positions being refered to on committees such as the Planning Board and the Board of Adjustment wield a considerable amount of power in Maplewood. The perception is that these are positions filled by persons who have political clout and contacts within an established town power base. I would hope that appointments to these positions are going to the most skilled of the applicants but I am not naif enough to believe that this is necessarily always the case. |
Reflective
Citizen
Username: Reflective
Post Number: 442
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 9:18 pm: | |
Joan
You hit the mark above. Remember Burt Liebman, township committee member? He had the idea that the TC should maintain a list of people who could fill the committee or other volunteer groups. In retrospect, one wonders whether the TC viewed those volunteers thru the CCR prism.
Kathy says many committees have unfilled positions and Barbara says we have a large diverse talented base of residents which with a little hard work will fill all those vacancies.
Many of us, ffof, Joan, myself know just how hard it is to get new people of any type to be a committed volunteer. It's about time, children, two jobs and other obligations.
It is not about making someone feel included, feel welcomed ect because they are under represented, what a crock of garbage that argument is!
|
Reflective
Citizen
Username: Reflective
Post Number: 443
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 9:25 pm: | |
Joan
You hit the mark above. Remember Burt Liebman, township committee member? He had the idea that the TC should maintain a list of people who could fill the committee or other volunteer groups. In retrospect, one wonders whether the TC viewed those volunteers thru the CCR prism.
Kathy says many committees have unfilled positions and Barbara says we have a large diverse talented base of residents which with a little hard work will fill all those vacancies.
Many of us, ffof, Joan, myself know just how hard it is to get new people of any type to be a committed volunteer.
It's about time, children, two jobs and other obligations, and every year there seem to fewer.
It is not about making someone feel included, feel welcomed ect because some idealistic not for profit, partially taxpayer funded group has identified them as an under represented group, what a crock of garbage that argument is!
|
michael
Real Name
Username: Michael
Post Number: 573
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 9:57 pm: | |
Some people sure like the word "hearsay!"
|
Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 590
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 7, 2004 - 6:20 am: | |
If active recruitment is an appropriate strategy, why wouldn't one approach organizations like churches, the VFW, PTA, etc. where "underrepresented" groups might be?
At the same time, I have to wonder whether reflective isn't right. People of all groups who are dealing with work and children might be less inclined to volunteer. I find it hard even to go to PTA meetings for these reasons.
Too, who exactly is complaining about not being represented? For all of us, we need to put our time where our mouth is. Complaining is easy...
And who do you seek, and why? My family is white, comparatively low income and not from NJ/NYC. My husband is a veteran. Are we not of interest? On the one hand, I might complain that township committees/officials don't see to our interests. On the other, I don't have time to be on a committee. I ride the train daily with an African American woman is in similar straights. Both of us find the town too liberal and too soft on crime -- but neither of us are volunteering given work schedules.
The diversity "issue" begins to sound manufactured by politicos for their own ends, as opposed to a real issue welling up from the actual community of actual residents.
|
michael
Real Name
Username: Michael
Post Number: 574
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 7, 2004 - 8:07 am: | |
quote:If we focus on "who is under-represented", no quotas, but where are we lacking representation - and work to get representation in those areas -- this whole conversation will become moot. It will become self-fulfilling that people of all groups will see that they are included, that they belong and are welcomed at the table, and will step forward much more easily. This works for racial inclusion as well as gender, political perspective, etc. It just takes some work to get there.
And this :
quote:As an organization, we support positions - our litmus test is whether something is pro-integrative or segregative. Whether the trustee is conservative or liberal, Dem, Rep or Ind, South Orangian or Maplewoodian - we are all asked to view decisions to be made as trustees through that prism.
All from Barbara.
Very nice words.
However, in practice could we please have one example where the "CC" or "CCR" supported a "conservative" member of the community for public office? (BOE or TC) There have been numerous "conservative" candidates that would have fit the "who is under-represented" criteria including several woman, people of color and other minorities.
|
Barbara
Real Name
Username: Blh
Post Number: 256
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 7, 2004 - 8:40 am: | |
Michael
In the lines directly above the second quote you cited are these lines:
Sbenois, the Community Coalition doesn't support candidates. As an organization we don't run candidates, don't endorse candidates, don't donate funds to candidates. In the most recent board election, some of our trustees held coffees for different candidates. We voted for different candidates. In fact,two of the candidates serve(d) on our schools committee - one won, the other didn't. |
eliz
Citizen
Username: Eliz
Post Number: 765
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 7, 2004 - 10:22 am: | |
I'm just curious if all these people who are complaining about quotas blocking them for positions have actually volunteered and been turned away?
As for Jerry Clifford's position - we just had an election and if the 4th slot had been open prior to the election it would have gone to Mark Miller based on votes. I would prefer that the BOE look to the people who voted as opposed to their preferences (whatever their criteria). |
gj1
Citizen
Username: Gj1
Post Number: 35
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 7, 2004 - 11:05 am: | |
Joan makes a good point that many people don't even know what opportunities there are for getting involved. Just doing a better job of gettting this information out would help to increase the number of prospective members to the committees.
I tend to get most of my information from the web, and the Maplewood township site is practically useless. I don't understand why the meetings page is continually blank, why there isn't information about the committees and in general any information that could be of use. What's the point of even having the site?
Heck, I'd volunteer to keep the site updated if I knew who to talk to. |
jem
Citizen
Username: Jem
Post Number: 994
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 7, 2004 - 11:22 am: | |
The Maplewood Leaflet gets mailed to every resident. All meetings for the quarter are listed on the back page. If you've thrown out your copy, I imagine that you can get a new one at Town Hall. |
gj1
Citizen
Username: Gj1
Post Number: 37
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 7, 2004 - 11:52 am: | |
Jem, I understand that there are other means to get the information. But the town Web site--if it were maintained--would be of the most use to me and I'm sure others. I guess my point is that if the town is going to provide a site, I should expect that it will provide timely up-to-date information about the town, it's services, and perhaps some information on how to get involved, much as you expect the leaflet to provide that information. Clearly this is not the case. |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2817
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 7, 2004 - 5:06 pm: | |
Cynical Girl: The VFW is having trouble finding enough ambulatory vets for the honor guard for the Memorial Day Parade this year. Please send me a PL if your husband would be interested. Time commitment would be from about 8:30 AM to about 10:30 AM on May 31, 2004. One time only and it would mean a lot to the people of this town.
Note: This invitation goes to any vet who is capable of walking the parade route, not just Cynicalgirl's husband.
GJ21: Jerry Ryan used to be the TC member in charge of internet communication. I don't who has that responsibility this year but he or she would be the person to talk with. From what I can see, the town has a great need for volunteers who are knowledgeable about computer systems. The need goes way beyond the town website. |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2818
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 7, 2004 - 5:07 pm: | |
Cynical Girl: The VFW is having trouble finding enough ambulatory vets for the honor guard for the Memorial Day Parade this year. Please send me a PL if your husband would be interested. Time commitment would be from about 8:30 AM to about 10:30 AM on May 31, 2004. One time only and it would mean a lot to the people of this town.
Note: This invitation goes to any vet who is capable of walking the parade route, not just Cynicalgirl's husband.
GJ1: Jerry Ryan used to be the TC member in charge of internet communication. I don't who has that responsibility this year but he or she would be the person to talk with. From what I can see, the town has a great need for volunteers who are knowledgeable about computer systems. The need goes way beyond the town website. |
michael
Real Name
Username: Michael
Post Number: 575
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, May 8, 2004 - 12:27 am: | |
I understand Barbara, but why then is the Coalition "upset" that a certain township committe member and SOMEA did not endorse Mr. Miller ?
It seems that the "CC" would like to play both sides of the fence. That is, support specific political candidates without being viewed as a politcal orginization.
Can't have it both ways.
|
Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 594
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 8, 2004 - 7:43 am: | |
Joan, thank you for the thoughts on the VFW. As it happens, we were talking about checking it out. Some VFWs are kinda cool (from a Viet Nam vet point of view) and some are a little too WWII, a little too conservative! I appreciate the reference. |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 2823
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, May 8, 2004 - 10:45 am: | |
Cynicalgirl:
The Maplewood VFW will have a representative at Mayfest this afternoon, as will a number of other service and community organizations in town.
Stop by and check it out.
I'm sending you a private line with more info. |
Pizzaz
Citizen
Username: Pizzaz
Post Number: 240
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, May 23, 2004 - 12:43 pm: | |
Please Cynical, you're not referring to the members of the greatest generation, are you? WWII, too conservative, what a laugh! |
Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 626
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 9:46 am: | |
Often, WWII VFW folks are less critical of gov handling of subsequent wars than are Viet Nam vets. That's all! |
Pizzaz
Citizen
Username: Pizzaz
Post Number: 249
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 10:06 am: | |
I thought I'd never use the word - tarradiddle. Oh, now I understand. |
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page