| Author |
Message |
    
ashear
Citizen
Username: Ashear
Post Number: 1579
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 3:29 pm: |     |
I don't have a dog and I am all in favor of the town figuring out a place to have a dog run. But dogs in the park should be leashed. I'm the parent of two young children. We all love dogs but it can be quite scary for all of us to have an unleashed dog take of toward us when we are walking through the park. I have no way of knowing if the dog is friendly or not. So please, keep them on a leash. |
mwsilva
Citizen
Username: Mwsilva
Post Number: 430
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 3:52 pm: | |
Tom
"without public money"
Public land was aquired with public money. It was intrusted to the township for public people use, not just for people with dogs too big for their yards. |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 6992
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 3:57 pm: | |
Actually the pool, parking lot and the land where the first aid squad is located were given to the Town by the Ward family. |
mjc
Citizen
Username: Mjc
Post Number: 84
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 4:02 pm: | |
mws - By the same reasoning, should we not have municipal parks, playgrounds or tennis courts because people's yards (and budgets) are too small for those amenities and not everyone plays tennis or has kids?
It's a beautiful sunny day, I hope you can get outside and enjoy the public spaces wherever you are.
MC (full disclosure: cat owner, but likes dogs) |
Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 4723
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 4:12 pm: | |
mwsilva, your interpretation of what I hope to do is incorrect.
Furthermore, specialization of public land is, as mjc points out, is OK.
I am talking about a particular parcel of land. If you have a different use for that strip of land in mind, you have a right to argue for that use. You might win. How would you prefer that town uses that land?
If you want to ascribe some evil intentions, please find another target. I'm trying to do some good for the public, and sure, I benefit, too, but there's nothing wrong with that. My benefit -- and my dog's -- are maximized if and only if others enjoy the space at the same time. |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 4463
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 4:32 pm: | |
BobK: You write that the strip of land behind the pool parking lot is not being used for anything but someone posted recently that at least part of this space was being used for a skate park for the town's youth. Can anyone verify whether that is the case and if so how much of the proposed site has been taken for that purpose?
Uke: I can remember a time when bicycle riding was permitted along the paths in Memorial Park while the bridge was being repaired. Some people may not be aware of the fact that bicycle riding is again prohibited.
Similarly, I can remember a time in the not too distant past when so many dogs were running off leash in Memorial Park that new comers to the area just assumed that this was an acceptable practice.
It is possible that both you and the child on the bicycle were ignorant of the fact that you were breaking park rules. This still does not put either of you in the right or excuse your mutual rudeness.
Just curious, did the police officer also comment about the kid on the bike?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
One does not have to see the dogs running off leash to observe that it is once again becoming a problem for the ecology in Memorial Park. One just has to look at the portion of the field which is once again being eroded in the same place as before to know that it is being overused by the dogs.
|
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 6993
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 5:45 pm: | |
Joan, the skate park is, or was, in the paved parking lot. I was down there over the weekend and I don't think it is there any longer. I remember seeing it in the parking lot in the past. |
Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 4725
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 7:26 pm: | |
Joan, the proposed area for the dog run does not conflict with the area that the skate park occupies. There might be a parking conflict, but that's all. |
mwsilva
Citizen
Username: Mwsilva
Post Number: 431
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 9:07 pm: | |
Tom
I'd like to see the space left open with grass, bushes and perhaps a tree or two more.
I'd like the skate park to enjoy the vista of the open space, the back drop of the tree line, without fences and trash cans full of dog dodo.
I'd like the skate park to enjoy the fresh air without the odor of the collected dog droppings.
I propose that we just leave it alone and save it for all to enjoy. |
Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 4729
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 9:14 pm: | |
That's more like it. Thank you. Are you a skater?
And by the way, it's not about what we can afford, as you originally said. The public benefits by allocating public land for public use, even when it's specialized. The skate park is a good example. |
Arthur Gartenlaub
Citizen
Username: Artg
Post Number: 32
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 12:18 pm: | |
mwsilva,
It's probably a safe assumption that you have not had an opportunity to see the site that is being proposed for the fenced in dog park area. At present the skate park takes up no more than 250 square feet and is directly behind the first aid station thereby providing a view of the first aid station, the community pool parking lot and trees and bushes on two sides along with an existing fence (between the vast vista of foliage and Winchester Gardens). As far as I understand it this is a temporary site and will be relocated in the not too distant future.
The proposed area is barely within the direct line of site of the skate park and certainly is not within "smell-shot" of any "dog droppings" as long as appropriate sanitation is maintained.
I propose that once you see the area and determine that the proposed area will somehow interfere with existing programs, that you come up with an alternative suggestion so that the owners of approximately 1200 licensed (and paid for) dogs can have an area to exercise their pets as well as socialize with people of a common mindset.
Art
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r2boy
Citizen
Username: R2boy
Post Number: 201
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 2:50 pm: | |
I don't think putting 1200 dogs in that narrow area is a good idea.Behind the tennis courts in Maplecrest Park(Springfield Ave side) is a level area that is much wider and is never used for anything.The tennis court fence could serve as a barrier on one side and the snow fence on the other.I don't think the Winchester people and their neighbors will be too receptive to all that barking....Plus when it rains the grass on the pool site doesn't hold water and it floods into the parking lot..Dogs will ruin the grass there and it will turn into a mud pool.R2 |
Michael Janay
Citizen
Username: Childprotect
Post Number: 1374
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 3:04 pm: | |
What about Boyden Park?
Maplecrest park is a great idea too, but Boyden park is probably the least used park in Maplewood. OK, I say that based on nothing but my observations, but it is well enclosed and has lots of space.
Seems like a perfect place for a dog run, or off leash times. |
Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 4740
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 3:10 pm: | |
I'll look at the area behind Maplecrest Park, though I think I heard there are plans for it.
And I hope you realize no one plans to put 1200 dogs in any one place simultaneously.
I'm going to review all the suggestions we have received so far and decide on a path to take. I will probably contact the folks in Livingston and see what they have learned.
Art, have you looked at Boyden Park? I heard that they are planning to renovate it, so we may be too late to get in there. |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 4466
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 4:39 pm: | |
I suggested both Boyden Park and the Maplecrest area years ago as preferable sites to the one being proposed in Memorial Park. Both were turned down for NIMBY reasons because they were too close to peoples homes. Perhaps either of those sites might be more acceptable now.
An advantage of Boyden Park is its limited street access. A disadvantage is that it is a small park with a single grassy area that would be just big enough for a proper dog park if this were it's only use. The limited street access also makes it an ideal place to bring young children. Another problem is that it is the only park serving the community in which it is located. I don't think people in the neighborhood would be willing to give it up full time. Shared hours (young children in the day time and week ends and dogs off leash in the early evenings) is a possibility but Lydia's point about having the proper ground surface for a dog park is a valid one and I don't think young children would do well with the kind of floor surface her Hoboken source recommends.
The area in Maplecrest Park originally under consideration was by the library. People liked this because of the proximity to Springfield Avenue and considered it a possible anchor for that part of the Avenue especially if dog-related businesses such as a pet store could be established near by.
The area behind the tennis courts on the Springfield Avenue side sounds like it would abut the new Police Station (when constructed). I doubt there would be as much of a problem with resident's complaining as there was with the site by the library. Of the suggestions thus far presented, this sounds the most promising if it doesn't interfere with the Police Station operation and I doubt that it would. |
Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 4748
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 5:29 pm: | |
I hear that Boyden Park is very low, leading to drainage problems. This would make a bad situation with waste. And the reasons Joan cites also makes it unsuitable for a dog park. I don't think timesharing is a good idea at all. I'd rather take a less-than-ideal space in order to have it full time. |
mwsilva
Citizen
Username: Mwsilva
Post Number: 432
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 5:57 pm: | |
Art G.
I have seen the location, I in fact walk it. It is the spot Art C. posted a picture of a year or two back.
I would suggest that all the dog people visit each others yards. There they can have the time to talk and allow their dogs to run free in their yards.
Leave the parks and open space to people. |
Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 4753
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 6:02 pm: | |
mwsilva, I think that's not a constructive criticism. I think you fooled me into thinking you oppose our proposal because you cared about the skate park. Now it seems that you merely oppose a dog park, no matter what. You have tried to show that it will be a public sacrifice, but we have shown you to be wrong twice.
My aim is for this not to cost the public anything. If you still oppose it, I don't think I can help you.
If you'd like to clarify your position, I invite you to contact me at noglider@pobox.com. I cannot privateline you, as you do not accept those messages. |
Ukealalio
Citizen
Username: Ukealalio
Post Number: 1573
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 6:10 pm: | |
I wonder mwsilva, have you attended any meetings regarding the skate park ?. An awful lot of people consider skaters more of a nuisance then dogs.
I'm not one of these folks , I've contributed to the Skatepark and helped run a benefit for it. I like skaters (I better, my son is one of them) and I like dogs. Silly me. |
yabbadabbadoo
Citizen
Username: Yabbadabbadoo
Post Number: 181
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 6:29 pm: | |
There is no Boyden Park in Maplewood. There is a Borden Park n Boyden Ave. and the field is used primarily for soccer. It also has a playground which is regularly used by local residents with small children. Not a good location for a dog run.
FF |
Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 4756
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 6:31 pm: | |
Boyden, Borden, Bowdoin, even when I keep them straight, it's a tongue twister!
Agreed: let's keep Borden Park out of consideration. |
AlleyGater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 29
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 20, 2004 - 11:33 am: | |
From my experience at many dog runs (2 in Hoboken, 3 in NYC, and 1 in Westfield) I have found that they don't usually smell of anything offensive (because the dogs are picked up after) nor is there a lot of barking (the dogs are having too much fun to bother barking much at all). All of the locations I have been to (except the Westfield location) are in cities where the dog run is EXTREMELY close to spaces that humans are using for other purposes (including >>gasp<< children's parks) . And there is NO problem (no smell issues nor noise issues nor for that matter violent dog attacks on adults or children).
I can understand how people who have not visited these sites might assume that there are problems. But they would be wrong. If they need evidence of this feel free to visit Washington Square park or Thompkins Square park two sites downtown in Manhattan. |
AlleyGater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 30
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 20, 2004 - 11:47 am: | |
I feel like we need a new approach to people who are opposed to the dogrun in Maplewood (for whatever their reasons). I think we should just ignore them, and keep pushing forward with plans to get one. I believe the 2 or 3 naysayers are mostly vocal because we keep egging them on by asking them all sorts of counter-questions. I think as Tom just found out you can try to have a well thought out discourse with the dog run haters, but that isn't their goal at all. They just want to hear themselves talk, be negative and they couldn't care less about logic, discourse or anything. They are at cross purposes to us dog run lovers.
Coming to this thread which is full of dog run supporters is not a logical method to eliminate the dog run proposal. It makes sense to me that the anti-dog run people should make their own MOL discussion thread and talk about squashing the dog run -- somewhere else. That would be logical if they wanted to eliminate a dog run. Go somewhere else and find supporters and people who actually want to hear you speak. But because they don't do that, it goes to show that they really only want to hear themselves talk, and for that matter just be a public nuisance. There is a word for this in the online world it's called Trolling. And the best way to get rid of Trolls is to ignore them. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 4808
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 20, 2004 - 12:09 pm: | |
The criticism has been useful in that we know what we will face in real life. I believe I have gathered enough good suggestions and naysaying to proceed. The next trick is to find the time to talk to the Livingston folks. Then I have to find the time to write a proposal to bring to the town meeting.
If you want to volunteer your time, please email me at noglider@pobox.com. Or if you have anything further to say, you may email me.
I agree that prolonging the discussion here on MOL is not likely to bear any new fruit. It also detracts from the time we could spend writing the proposal. |
alison mccoll
Citizen
Username: Alikoz
Post Number: 70
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 9:43 pm: | |
Tom Reingold:
I admire your tenacity and community-minded spirit. People who have never been to a dog park can not imagine the sense of community one fosters. Even before I had a dog, I would go to the Union Square dog park at lunchtime. The goodwill and happiness that swell from these places is truly inexplicable and rare. Strangers talk and laugh with eachother. Local merchants benefit from the foot traffic. People network, discuss community politics, and organize around the issues that matter to them. Dogs are the ultimate ice-breaker.
I can understand the fears some people have about noise and odor. But honestly, attendees understand that dog parks are a privledge. While some may fear the place could become unruly, in fact, my experience has been the exact opposite: people actually get a little carried away policing each other (all in good humor). God help the poor fool who doesn't curb his dog...And for some reason, dogs rarely bark in groups. Dogs mainly bark when they are alarmed or want something, and every dog I know is happy as a clam at the dog park.
This is not about having a place to run your dog in lieu of a yard. Anyone who needs that sort of space can find more that they could ever use at the Reservaton.
Dog parks are just as much about the people as they are about the dogs!
|
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 3429
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 10:07 pm: | |
"Dog parks are just as much about the people as they are about the dogs!"
This is true! So what are you and Tom going to do about it? It's been a month since the last post on this subject... |
Dego Diva
Citizen
Username: Fmingione
Post Number: 208
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 12:29 pm: | |
Tom has started a Yahoo group to help keep this project moving along. Yes, it's been a month, but keep in mind the holidays fell during that month - I think I can safely say that the last month has been a busy time.
Meanwhile, though, some of us have been, and will continue to contact the folks in charge of the Livingston dog run to get some guidance. It's a start. |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 3433
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 1:23 pm: | |
...sounds good. Let us "all" know how we can help. |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 4810
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 4:32 pm: | |
Over two years ago Fred and Ian (now our Mayor and Deputy Mayor) stated during their campaign for TC that they were in touch with the county to try and establish a dog park on county land. Does anyone know the status of this proposal? |
Dego Diva
Citizen
Username: Fmingione
Post Number: 211
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 6:49 pm: | |
No, I personally don't know the status. Are you volunteering your time to find that out Joan? |
Dego Diva
Citizen
Username: Fmingione
Post Number: 212
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 6:55 pm: | |
Will do ajc! It's certainly going to take "a whole village" at some point, hopefully soon. I guess right now Tom is just trying to figure out a plan of action by learning how other towns have done it. |
AlisonS
Citizen
Username: Alisons
Post Number: 23
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 8:37 am: | |
Deigo Diva -
I couldn't find that Yahoo Group. Can you give more info?
Thanks |
Dego Diva
Citizen
Username: Fmingione
Post Number: 214
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 10:26 am: | |
Private line Tom Reingold about it. He started the grooup, and I think he might need to invite you - I'm not sure. |
AlisonS
Citizen
Username: Alisons
Post Number: 24
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 10:35 am: | |
Thanks. Will do. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5261
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 12:59 pm: | |
You can join the group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mapledogs. There is an archive of the messages posted so far, of which there have been very few.
Let me know if you have trouble joining, and I'll help. |
The Oracle of MOL
Supporter
Username: Oracle_of_mol
Post Number: 4
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 1:30 pm: | |
Greetings from Florida. Now that Spring is here (and where you are also), I thought you all might be interested in knowing how this great little town deals with the idea of a fenced-in dog park.
(The details are all available at http://www.ci.boca-raton.fl.us/parks/dogpark/dogpark.htm )
Not being a pet-owner myself, I had nothing to do with the creation of Boca's Dog Park, but I must admit to thinking of SOMA when I first passed the place:
Here's a run-down, including the Rules&Regs:
"Dogs are allowed to run off-leash
Benches are located throughout the park.
We DON'T have restrooms in the park.
We DO have Water Fountains & Wash Stations.
Handicap Access: Yes
Trash Cans: Available on site.
Doggie Bags for Waste: Available at six stations throughout the park. Owners are expected to pick up after their dog.
HOURS OF OPERATION:
Mon - Tues: 9:00 a.m. - Dusk
Wednesday: Noon - Dusk
Thur-Sun: 9:00 a.m. - Dusk
The 2-acre property is fenced: One acre is for large dogs, One acre is for small dogs.
GUIDELINES FOR USE:
Be polite. Scoop up the poop! Bag stations and trashcans are available throughout the dog park.
Remain in the dog park and in full view of your dog at all times.
Leash your dog prior to entering and upon leaving the dog park.
Aggressive behavior must be addressed immediately. Either move your dog to another part of the park or leave the park.
For safety reasons, children must be at least 4 feet tall and supervised by an adult to use the dog park. Children must behave in a responsible manner: no running, chasing dogs, or petting dogs without the owner’s permission.
No more than two dogs per person on any one visit.
Dog toys, leashes, etc. left in the park will be disposed of at the end of the day. The City accepts no responsibility or liability for such items.
Female dogs in heat or sick dogs cannot be brought to the park.
Dogs should be under voice control (i.e., come when called).
Dogs must be vaccinated and display current licenses on their collars.
Puppies under four (4) months of age are prohibited.
Spayed/neutered animals are recommended.
No food, treats, alcoholic beverages (soft drinks and water are allowed), strollers, bicycles, or children’s toys are allowed in the dog park. This is a recreation park for dogs accompanied by their owners.
Choke, prong, pinch, and spike collars must be removed inside park area.
Professional dog trainers are not permitted to use this facility for training.
Persons in violation of these rules may be required to leave the dog park.
Use of this facility shall be for a dog park; any other use is prohibited.
All incidents and injuries must be reported to the Recreation Services Department
This dog park is an unsupervised recreational area of the City of Boca Raton’s Recreation Services Department.
The use of the dog park is at your own risk.
Dog owners are responsible for, and liable with respect to, the actions of their dogs and any damage or injury to person or property caused by same."
Well, that should give you mortals something to chew on. Play nice.
-The Oracle of MOL |
Andrea Weisbard
Citizen
Username: Njnetsfan
Post Number: 164
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 11:10 pm: | |
This may or may not have been posted, but there is a fenced in dog run in Livingston on Shrewsberry. I know that you don't have to be a Livingston resident, but you have to register. I will get more info and post it.
There a a few things I do know though since I go hiking on the fitness trail.
There is two fenced in areas, one area for small dogs only and anoter area for big dogs, or people who have more than one dog. I also know that the dog owners are responsible for cleaning up after their dog(s). Basically that's all I know. |
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