| Author | Message | ||
     johnny Citizen Username: Johnny Post Number: 1226 Registered: 5-2001 |
The bottom line is that to get elected in Maplewood these days you must run as part of the Democratic party. This is why Fred lost the first election as an "independent." It had nothing to do with Huemer running a superior campaign. As for Vic, why should we re-elect someone who was clearly defeated only two years ago? Have his ideas really improved or changed that much? Profeta all the way. | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 3736 Registered: 5-2001  |
"Profeta all the way."...and Grodman. | ||
| birdbrain Citizen Username: Birdbrain Post Number: 91 Registered: 2-2003  |
I worked on Fred's first campaign, and the one after that got him and Ian elected. I'm sure there were all sorts of meetings between various people at various levels of the party. That's how things work. Here's why I supported Fred and Ian three+ years ago. We had a town council that seemed (to me at least, and others) unresponsive to local concerns, and at least in our perception as opposed to kathleen's, not at all open in their discussions. We also had a group of council-members who seemed more devoted to some sort of "agenda" rather than just running a town. kathleen seems to confirm this by several references to the "reform" and "liberal-progressive" style of Vic and co. While I had a Reagan sticker on my car in high-school, I've voted Democrat in almost every election I've ever voted in, and have always been a registered democrat, so this isn't a case of republican-in-sheep's clothing going after a "liberal". So, three years ago the majority of voters in the primary chose Fred and Ian. Since then, what has happened that would have changed anyone's mind about them? While Ian may not have seized the spotlight, perhaps to his political deteriment, he is hard working, intelligent, and has been involved in the nuts-and-bolts of the changes over the last three years. One of the biggest of these was mending relations with the police and moving forward on the new police station. They even managed to get $1 million dollars from the State to help! Yeah, there was the attempted use of imminent domain, something that I didn't agree with. Fred, to his credit, when he saw how the town felt, found a different site for the police station. I call this responsive governing, and am happy to have him. I guess, for me, the question is why go back to Vic? I'm sure he's a nice guy and everything, but what is he offering that is different than what he did before? After all, most voters obviously didn't approve then. And why short-circuit the continued process? Ian and Fred have proven to be an incredibly affective team for the last three years, I just don't see any reason to mess that up. -David "Three more years! Three more years!" Wren-Hardin | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 66 Registered: 3-2005 |
David, If you worked on Fred's first campaign you are well aware that after he lost, he complained vocally about "party line" voters in Maplewood who belonged to the Democratic party who wouldn't vote for a Republican or an independent. He felt a non-Democrat had no chance of winning in Maplewood, so he tried to start a movement to institute non-partisan elections. It fizzled. When he agreed to become the Maplewood candidate of Steve Adubato's Essex machine, Fred wasn't a member of the Democratic Party. His interest in gaining control of the party line was simply to be able to fool naive voters into believing that by casting a party line vote, they were getting someone they could trust to enact the principles of the Democratic party -- most especially principles of fairness and an open door to all people in Maplewood, regardless of income bracket, gender, race or religion or where they lived in Maplewood. That was the "agenda" you saw the TC pursuing when you moved here. Sorry it didn't appeal to you and Andrea. I've never said that everyone who voted for Fred was a Republican, but it's certainly fair to point out to people considering voting in the upcoming primary that Vic De Luca NEVER lied about his party affiliation. It's surely the political understatement of the century to say that Ian Grodman has not "seized the spotlight" while Fred has been mayor -- except for those times Fred pushed him out to walk the plank on embarassments like the selection of the Bette White site. And could we please stop this canard about "mending relations" with the police department? Every TC for as long as you and I have lived here -- and this includes the ones Fred served on -- has taken the position that the TC MUST have input into police promotions. When the legal issue was settled -- in FAVOR of the TC's position, it was possible to let the promotions go forward. There may be political police who want to beat Fred's drum for him. During the years Vic was in office, crime went down in this town and NO ONE has ever demonstrated that the police were not given all the resources they needed to police the town. The million dollars Fred got from the state for the new police station was immediately swallowed up to cover cost overruns that are a direct result of Fred's incompetence and political maneuvering in selecting a police site. Every time his campaign brings it up, I intend to tell the truth about it. Among Vic's last acts in office was an effort to move the police station process along more quickly to beat the rising costs of steel and secure early aid. Fred thwarted every single one of those moves, seized control of the process and then flubbed it trying to seize the Bette White site. Now we're stuck throwing a million dollars in hard -to-get state aid at cost overruns because of the delays. Who says Fred has seen the light about "imminent domain"? When the folly of seizing the Bette White site was made glaringly obvious to him by a public uproar, he verbally attacked Maplewood's citizens in print, sent Ian out to do the same (and a number of his former campaign workers) and then when it was obvious seizing Bette White's business would never happen, he ostentatiously did a "poll" which cost us all 1,000 bucks to tell him what to do. I don't call that responsible government. It only looks tht way to the chanting Fred cult. Vic lost his re-election bid because after the reveal, the same politics of deceit that exploited anger about the legal and fair results of the reval organized Republicans to run as Democrats to fool voters and restore Republican policies where the biggest winners will always be developers. What Vic is offering the people of Maplewood is somebody who has been true to his principles all his life, who stands up to pressure and lies, who has actually read a book or two on government and economic development (make it more like several hundred), who has realistic solutions and who brought REAL VISIBLE progress to Springfield Ave., not "let's-hope-we-all-live-that-long" dreamscapes to build Profettaville. Guess we won't be voting the same way, David. Maybe some day you'll be telling your kids that Profeta-Grodman sticker on your car was just a youthful indiscretion. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 6805 Registered: 1-2003  |
kathleen, by using the word "actually" are you implying that Ian and Fred haven't read any books on government or economic development? I don't know what books they have or haven't read. Do you? My votes are still undecided. | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 67 Registered: 3-2005 |
Why not ask them? You'd think one of them would have mentioned it by now, no? It's been 3 years. All Fred has ever said is that he's talked to people, and now we find out it has mainly been just ONE person. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 6807 Registered: 1-2003 |
OK, I'll take that as a yes to my first question and a no to my second question. | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 68 Registered: 3-2005 |
You know, Tom, if you look at Vic's background, you'll see a long list of involvment with good government organizations and policy think tanks, as well as deep involvement with the issues of sustainable economic and community developement. That really is his work. He's not the prisoner of one set of development assumptions (or tax assumptions or political assumptions). One of the serious problems with the development path Fred's pursuing is that it puts us the town in the position of paying for expert advice and then being driven to accept it because other options weren't looked at, too much time is invested in the plans and we don't have the money to start over with somebody different. | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 69 Registered: 3-2005 |
Our posts skipped. Fair enough interpretation. If you ask, pass along what you learn. I'm beginning to think neither of them has ever read the Open Meetings Act, and it's not that many words. I'd like to see a return to public meetings where crucial votes aren't taken when 99.9 percent of the town is asleep. | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 3739 Registered: 5-2001 |
holy ignorance. | ||
| Chronic Pain Citizen Username: Chronic_pain Post Number: 21 Registered: 5-2004 |
If Vic is ever elected Pope, Harpo will be his Cardinal Ratzinger. | ||
| birdbrain Citizen Username: Birdbrain Post Number: 92 Registered: 2-2003 |
Well kathleen, there's a lot to respond to. I may take stuff out of sequence as I jump up and down. First off, anything I write is under my own name and ID. Please leave Andrea's name out of it. She has her own ID, and if she wishes to express her polictical views in this forum will do so under her own ID. The second thing I want to respond to is this: [QUOTE] When he agreed to become the Maplewood candidate of Steve Adubato's Essex machine, Fred wasn't a member of the Democratic Party. His interest in gaining control of the party line was simply to be able to fool naive voters into believing that by casting a party line vote, they were getting someone they could trust to enact the principles of the Democratic party -- most especially principles of fairness and an open door to all people in Maplewood, regardless of income bracket, gender, race or religion or where they lived in Maplewood. That was the "agenda" you saw the TC pursuing when you moved here. Sorry it didn't appeal to you and Andrea. I've never said that everyone who voted for Fred was a Republican, but it's certainly fair to point out to people considering voting in the upcoming primary that Vic De Luca NEVER lied about his party affiliation. [/END QUOTE] I resent the implication that by not supporting Vic, I somehow don't support the principles of fairness and equality regardless of gender, race, etc. I specifically chose to live in Maplewood because of its attitudes toward these principles. I resent the implication that just because Fred and Ian chose to run against Vic, that they don't hold these principles close to their heart. This is often hard for people who strongly support a candidate to believe, that just because someone runs against their candidate, that they are running against the underlying principles of that candidate. A campaign can be run on differences in _execution_, not necessarily underlying principles. Thirdly, I have no idea who Steve Adubato is. I have associated with Fred socially, casually, and politically, and never heard the name come up. Doesn't mean he wasn't involved, whoever he is, but whatever agenda this is supposed to be code for went right over my head. Maybe I was just too involved in eating Chex Mix. It _is_ true that Vic has a long history in Newark, and I assume, Essex county politics. But his losses here don't necessarily reflect some vendetta against him. Perhaps he lost on his own merits, or Fred and Ian won on theirs. You mention that Vic wanted to move the police station along because of "rising steel prices". In 2001, the year that Vic would have been moving this along before the 2002 primary, steel prices were at a low. Here is one URL: http://www.ipsco.com/News/News0112.htm and another http://www.steel.org/news/pr/2002/pr020227_imp.htm This last one, from Feb. 2002, says "...the big story in January was the unsustainable low price levels for steel imports and the continuing, unprecedented steel price depression in the U.S. market..." If Vic was really this prescient about steel prices, then he should have talked to Dave Heumer about cashing in. And I don't have a Profeta/Grodman sticker on my car -- yet. I do have a Pettis/Leventhal one, and still have my Kerry/Edwards sticker. Kind of an odd thing to have, actually, for a republican-in-sheep's-clothing non-diversity-liking guy to have. -David "Profeta/Grodman Kool-Aid sipper since 2001" Wren-Hardin | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 73 Registered: 3-2005 |
birdbrain, In your previous post, you referred to "our perception" (of the TC) and I didn't know who that royal plural could have referred to other than your spouse. If you prefer "mrs. birdbrain," I can oblige, but it seemed rude without an explcit invitation. Going down your points, I can't take responsibility for your confecting a resentment of things I didn't write but you did. You misrepresented the TC that existed prior to Fred's tenure. And now you misrepresent Fred, who isn't committed to the principles that you claim are the reasons you moved to Maplewood. Fred tells people he supports these principles when its poliically convenient for him to do so. You should hear how he talks when you're not there. If you want to go on believing in Fred, I can't stop you. If you have no idea who Steve Adubato is, you should find out. He's the Essex County political boss. This is a grown up discusion. It's not about your breakfast cereal. And yet in the same breath you *know* that "Vic has a long history in Newark"? Really? You don't know who Steve Adubato is but you know Vic De Luca's "history" in Newark? Do tell. birdbrain, I don't know where you were when projected costs for the police station were handed out to citizens in 2004, but at that time it was said OUT LOUD that rising steel costs were of great concern to all TC members. It wasn't a matter of "prescience." Wasn't Fred or Ian paying attention? I don't know where you were last Tuesday night, but Eli Goldstein stood up and elaborated on the police station cost overruns -- and we haven't broken ground yet. Are you here to blow smoke in everybody's eyes about a report that just took place in public? Have only steel costs risen since Fred became mayor and bungled the selection of the police station site? Well, no, birdbrain, they haven't. So have energy costs. As for your bumper stickers: Over dinner this evening I was conversing with a man about national politics, and he shrugged and said: "The 'Reagan-lite' crowd thinks just because it fools itself its fooling other people." Uh-huh. Look, I think everybody who lives where I do knows Fred was your wife's politcal patron in the last election. Whatever you feel your political obligations are, I don't feel obliged not to mention it for the sake of "netiquette." One of the things people in this town need to know is that Fred is fielding candidates for the Board of Education because he wants to keep a lid on the school budget to give him wiggle room on his municipal expenses. He wants to secure a majority of loyalists on the BOE. People -- especially people with children who have a huge investment in the schools -- have to think about whether they want to endure cuts in education to finance Fred's development agenda and the preservation of Fred's politcal base of large property owners. That's something for parents of kids in public school to think about. Their most precious, fundamental interests are not being served by having "Fred's friends" in positions to cast votes on all-important issues all over town. A vote for Vic breaks the lockstep. | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 3741 Registered: 5-2001 |
"One of the things people in this town need to know is that Fred is fielding candidates for the Board of Education..." What planet are you on?  | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 3742 Registered: 5-2001 |
Profeta/Grodman signs are being stolen in the Durand neighborhood. | ||
| tdurkin307 Citizen Username: Tdurkin307 Post Number: 28 Registered: 4-2002 |
Kathleen, Please get your facts straight. Your credibilty is weary and thin at best. If you are that concerned about what I do and would like to in some sick way connect it to politics then here goes.. I am a Detective in the UNION COUNTY Prosecutor's Office, which is in Elizabeth not Newark. For the last two years I have been assigned to the Child Abuse and Sex Crimes Unit, where I perform forensic videotaped interviews with victims under the age of thirteen. The children demonstrate what happened to them using anatomically correct dolls. I'll further obtain a statement from the fresh complaint (the first person the victim told about the incident). A subsequent arrest and possible search warant (semen and/or blood stained clothing, weapons, etc.) are signed. Then it's time to arrest the bad guy/girl. I am my own person. Tim Durkin | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 76 Registered: 3-2005 |
Tim, Did you work in Essex County law enforcement (besides Maplewood)? And were you involved in PBA endorsements in prior TC campaigns? | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 1214 Registered: 5-2001 |
Kathleen, Your posts are very Stalinistic - If a poster doesn't drink your Kool-Aid 100% than you are bringing their wives into it, knocking the police and whipping yourself into a self-righteous frenzy. So much of what you post is either a complete fallacy or a fantasy. Birdbrain is correct that Vic DeLuca had a long history in Newark. If you were an elected official, you would be privy to some of the meetings with everyone from the Essex County Dems up to Jon Corzine. When Vic DeLuca showed up he was not received warmly. Vic Deluca had his chance in Maplewood politics - he's come back alone and he doesn't have the backing of any major organzations in our town. Maplewood Democratic Commitee? No. Policemens' Benevolent Society? (Local # 44) No, Majority of the Planning board, Board of Adjustments,? No. Judging by lawn signs - majority of the town? it remains to be seen, but I doubt it. Meanwhile Vic DeLuca is running on a platform that basically translates to "this town sucks, it was so much better when I was Mayor" The average voter opens their door on a sunny May day and sees that Maplewood is doing well - we don't want to go back to the days of lines drawn in the sand and back-biting. Vic is about dividing and turning the town against itself. You need not look any further than the non-profit organization that he spearheads which sent out workers to canvass for him under the cloak of "saving Social Security". I heard Citizen Action may be in danger of losing it's non-profit status because of DeLuca's misuse of it's volunteers. Kathleen, Do you really support these dishonest practices? Does it ever occur to you that you are being used? | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 80 Registered: 3-2005 |
tim, Sorry. I just did a google search and an MOL search, and I see that your brother, Chris, was the former sheriff's officer, not you. Once you posted on MOL where some former Maplewood officers were now, and after beginning with yourself you immediately listed those who had recently moved to Essex law enforcement, and that too was what I misremembered. But I still recall you as being very vocal supporting Fred and a Bush/Cheney voter. Did you hold office in the PBA? | ||
| yabbadabbadoo Citizen Username: Yabbadabbadoo Post Number: 229 Registered: 11-2003  |
accuse first. ask questions later. bad form, kathleen FF |
