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Message |
    
Woodster
Citizen
Username: Woodster
Post Number: 83
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 8:39 pm: |     |
I thought the Hilton Neighborhood Candidates Forum was going to be televised. Is it over? Does anyone know how it went or have any highlights to offer?
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Woodster
Citizen
Username: Woodster
Post Number: 86
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 1:38 am: | |
Was it cancelled? |
L'Angelo Misterioso
Citizen
Username: Misterioso
Post Number: 253
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 8:02 am: | |
They never broadcast those things live - they're not set up for remotes. It should be on Ch 35 in replay pretty soon. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 8479
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 8:38 am: | |
This is a chicken and egg scenario. Did the police become recalcitrant because they felt the TC and Administrator weren’t bargaining in good faith? Or are they just a group of radicals?
In the end, other towns manage to handle municipal employee contracts without the level of rancor we had during the DeLuca years.
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ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 3813
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 10:50 am: | |
The questions last night exceeded the answers! Time ran out for many residents who appeared desperate to ask the candidates their questions.
Personally, regarding the property tax issue, the number one most important concern for residents , I felt Fred and Ian did the best job overall in explaining the facts and laying out a clear direction for our town in the future. Just relying on Trenton for help doesn’t make it for me...
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Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 5615
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 12:12 pm: | |
Would anyone knowing the broadcast dates for the HNA debate please post them here. |
steel
Citizen
Username: Steel
Post Number: 682
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 12:18 pm: | |
Steel's Humble Impressions: (also largely posted in another thread)
For my part, I was at the candidate's debate the other night and not having seen DeLuca speak for a while was again reminded that he does less well at persuading than insisting and that much of what he insists upon does not bear close examination for either accuracy or presentation of wise priority. It strikes me that he is better suited as an advocate for some narrow cause, (whatever he should choose), than as a steward for the totality of a municipality.
It additionally did not serve him well that apart from wrongly insisting both in tone and content that he also managed to both wrongly imply or only partially reveal on matters such as rent control, developer's interests, campaign canvassing tactics and yes, police negotiations.
However I did enjoy his old politician's trick of when asked a difficult question would first reply; "Thank you for the question..." as in; "Thank you for poking me in the eye you bastard why did you have to show up here tonight..." He would then insistently "hold-forth" weaving a dunning tapestry of how HE had first looked at, studied, was responsible for, should be credited with, initiated, and had invented everything presently good or hoped for in this town I think not to the exclusion of the internet.
His method seems designed not so much to fully inform as to numb you with the blunt object belief that; "well gee, he is certainly saying it forcefully enough so it must be right". -"Thanks Vic, I've never been hit over the head, I mean, had it explained to me like that before."
His portion of, (I presume once bright-faced and earnest) self-presumed nobility has become all-too tainted and thus toxic with bile that cannot be disguised with quick smiles. It may have once been the bile of others tossed at him during his many causes in "fighting-the-good-fight" but now it has become his own. In my opinion it is a quality not conducive to either "healthy debate" or reaching mutually arrived at agreements and certainly not to be admired or sought in a representative that I would choose.
In my case he was decidedly unpersuasive despite that I had in good faith walked in prepared, (probably much to the presumed shock and horror of some acquaintances), to be persuaded to change from my still present and now final choice of Profeta & Grodman.
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Reflective
Citizen
Username: Reflective
Post Number: 940
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 6:24 pm: | |
Steel:
Maybe the best post on MOL in 2005!
Well presented. |
Nohero
Supporter
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 4483
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 7:52 pm: | |
Reflective - Congratulations, because I've read Steel's post three times now, and I still can't figure out what actually happened.
Maybe I should watch the replay, and judge for myself. |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6451
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 8:40 pm: | |
I did enjoy Steel's part where he puts words in Vic's mouth to portray Vic in a negative light. Good to see open minds being engaged by issues.
(What were the issues, by the way? Oh heck, that's not as interesting as doing play by play color commentary.) |
Reflective
Citizen
Username: Reflective
Post Number: 942
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 9:04 pm: | |
Nohero - at least he didn't say "sources said"
and Dave.....welcome to newsweek and rather world
Caveat - steel was there |
steel
Citizen
Username: Steel
Post Number: 683
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 9:35 am: | |
Dear Dave,
-You are exactly right sir regarding interest.
-As the wise wizard you must indeed realize that some posters must of neccesity do "color" (as you use the popular term, -I prefer to call it "related observation of intuiative and common sense experieince in an alternating humorous and geniune tone designed to elicite as much clarity as I may"), on MOL or far few folks would read it or participate. We each go with our strengths as we experieince the world and in our abilities to report what we experience.
As to putting worlds in Vic's mouth to portray in a negative light? -Exactly right again sir, though I believe that my transgression is small if not laudable when you consider the context as one relating a common and relatively harmless foilble of most polished politicians. Surely you recognize the habit of ANY politician of when they first reply to a difficult question with, "Thank you for the question..." and to what thought is actualy rattling around in their head at that moment. I believe that I have also seen Fred, (and certainly a multitude of others as have we all), perform the same tactic.
I recommend to all voters who were not present at the debate to follow Nohero's idea and judge for yourself as best as possible from the tape.
I feel confident that at the very least of what I observed at the debate was certainly a snapshot of future TC meetings should Vic be elected. -I would hope that few honest voters would argue THAT point though many will argue the desire or dread of same. |
mplwdian
Citizen
Username: Mplwdian
Post Number: 75
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 3:24 pm: | |
Steel- Your post is most eloquent. Everyone should understand what is at stake in this election. |
L'Angelo Misterioso
Citizen
Username: Misterioso
Post Number: 256
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 12:07 pm: | |
What Steel actually said, for those who need a translation, is: I don't like Vic, I have never liked Vic, I will never like Vic, and despite protestations that I came in with an open mind, my mind was made up in advance not to hear, and instantly to dismiss, anything he had to say.
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L'Angelo Misterioso
Citizen
Username: Misterioso
Post Number: 257
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 12:08 pm: | |
Re: old-politician tricks - that's exactly the way Mr. Profeta answered several questions at the GRASP debate on the 11th - before giving answers that directly contradicted both previous statements of his and later statements he made at Hilton. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 8517
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 12:23 pm: | |
L"Angelo your comment on Profeta at the GRASP debate could benefit from some specifics.
Also, DeLuca appears to have ducked questions about NJCA people soliciting on his behalf. There are several posts that he ducked this question at the Hilton debate. We know you are fairly close to Vic, any comment? |
wharfrat
Citizen
Username: Wharfrat
Post Number: 1838
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 12:27 pm: | |
quote:Also, DeLuca appears to have ducked questions about NJCA people soliciting on his behalf. There are several posts that he ducked this question at the Hilton debate. We know you are fairly close to Vic, any comment?
I was at the debate. Vic didn't "duck". He answered all the questions asked of him. |
L'Angelo Misterioso
Citizen
Username: Misterioso
Post Number: 259
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 1:03 pm: | |
Here's one where Mr. Profeta actually used "Thank you for the question..." The question was about how the three candidates had voted on the TC resolution requesting that President Bush seek further UN approval before starting military action against Iraq. Mr. Profeta started his response with Steel's formulation, and then rambled on for several minutes without ever actually answering the question.
Here's another:
At the GRASP debate, in response to a question about whether he supported the proposed constitutional convention, his answer was that he was on the fence about it, and had some reluctance to support it, because it might cost taxpayers who made over $100K more than they pay now.
At the Hilton debate, he said that he was absolutely and wholeheartedly in favor of the convention, without reservation.
I understand pitching an answer to a particular audience, but that wasn't a change in pitch, it was an almost total about-face.
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 8519
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 1:40 pm: | |
Wharf and others, another post indicates he praised NJCA to the hilt, but never got around to answering about the solicitations on his behalf by solicitors for that organization. So what is the story? |
wharfrat
Citizen
Username: Wharfrat
Post Number: 1844
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 5:05 pm: | |
Bobk-
I don't remember seeing you at the debate. Were you in fact there?
If no, you are repeating something someone else said.
Which poster has said Vic "ducked" the question? |
steel
Citizen
Username: Steel
Post Number: 685
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 5:34 pm: | |
TRANSLATION of this ELECTION:
Voters need to bear in mind that if this primary election were a simple one-on-one contest of Fred vs Vic that Vic would surely lose. Hopefully all can agree that Fred is widely popular, (though clearly not with all) and will absolutely be retaining his seat even in this 3-for-2 musical chairs contest. In spite of that reality Vic is being run basically as the Anti-Fred, (as though he would replace Fred which he will not), and only stands a chance of gaining a seat if enough voters split their Profeta/Grodman vote which would be an injustice to Ian and a loss to the town. Ian is not Fred, (though clearly not in the minds of all). He has presented a voice of thoughtful calm reason who has worked hard for this town. In my opinion Ian deserves reelection and is needed on the Town Council.
Having Vic and Fred behind the same dais would be like having a matter/antimatter reactor trying to run our humble municipality. (NOTE: matter/anti-matter reactors only work on TV and even there it is a problem).
___________________________________________
Dear Mysterious George,
A team of scholars have carefully examined the ancient text of the book of Steel and compared it to your modern translation. They find that although there may be some undertstanding for the presumption of your interpretation found in historical evidence that you have in fact greatly exceeded any standard of veritas that could be widely accepted with the following exception:
"I don't like Vic" may be accepted only when placed in a proper context of an expanded declaration such as; "I don't like Vic as compared to Ian as a candidate for town council".
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 8530
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 6:11 pm: | |
Wharf, actually I was there, but fell asleep.
I think it was Steel who made the comment, but it might have been someone else. I am just trying to get a feel for this. |
wharfrat
Citizen
Username: Wharfrat
Post Number: 1845
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 7:53 pm: | |
Bobk-
The first question from the audience was asked at 8:10!
Up past our bedtime, are we?  |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 8539
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 9:37 am: | |
So, Wharf, what was his answer? Did he admit using NJCA or not? |
steel
Citizen
Username: Steel
Post Number: 686
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 10:01 am: | |
Nuh-uh Bob,
Was not I who claimed that Vic "ducked" a question. Personally. I can't remember much of what he said about the NJCA except that he was proud of their work and he was sure that they were only asking for checks, (as opposed to cash) during their canvassing. I must have been hit over the head during the debate. I can't remember much after Vic told Fred, "Ya know you've got alot of nerve!" After that all hell broke out, Ian slammed his folding chair across Vic's back and one cowboy was tossed through the bar mirror. Bottles and jaws were broken everywhere, (which may account for more typing here). |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 8540
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 10:03 am: | |
God, to think I slept through all that!! Being up all the night before with the Maplewood Lawn Sign Patrol must have really tired me out. |
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