| Author | Message | |||
     Stevef Citizen Username: Stevef Post Number: 14 Registered: 5-2005 |
Read through the endorsement. There's nothing of any substance in it other than "we like Fred and Ian". Nice, sure, but where's the beef other than the police apparently got big raises and residents are debating whether or not to tear down one of its libraries to pay for it? Most of the cops probably don't even live in Maplewood. | |||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 3761 Registered: 5-2001  |
apparently you'd rather have disgruntled policemen/women protecting the citizens. | |||
| Stevef Citizen Username: Stevef Post Number: 15 Registered: 5-2005 |
I hope you're not saying police were not responding to citizens because they don't make enough money. I have a higher opinion of them than that. | |||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 3763 Registered: 5-2001 |
I didn't say Not Responding. I said Disgruntled. It's obviously about more than money, you pot stirrer. | |||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 6428 Registered: 4-1997  |
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| L'Angelo Misterioso Citizen Username: Misterioso Post Number: 243 Registered: 10-2003  |
My recollection is that the PBA was "disgruntled" because they asked for a 24% raise and the TC said no. In trying to find a good balance between taxes and public safety, the TC (in my opinion) properly decided that such a large increase was impossible. If they had given in, we'd be hearing now about how they'd given away the store. | |||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 8469 Registered: 5-2001 |
L'Angelo, as respects the police contract in a normal community there are negotiations between the various municipal unions and the guv'mint. There was precious little of this in the previous administration, at least as many of us see it, nothing that moved the discussions towards a conclusion. There was also a lot of personal animosity involved. Did Vic want to "take it outside" with the PBA President during a TC meeting? | |||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 3764 Registered: 5-2001 |
"If they had given in, we'd be hearing now about how they'd given away the store." You've said that in so many words a few times now. It's a bogus coverup for Vic's poor leadership. | |||
| L'Angelo Misterioso Citizen Username: Misterioso Post Number: 249 Registered: 10-2003 |
By all reports it was the PBA prez whose behaviour was unprofessional, rude, and highly inappropriate, not to mention insubordinate. Since he was behaving in a such a disruptive way during a Township Committee meeting, should it be surprising that he was asked to leave the room? The way I see it, ffof, Mr DeLuca, as an elected official representing the entire town, was doing his job extremely well, by looking to keep the taxpayers from being tied into an unconscionably large contract settlement. | |||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 4829 Registered: 5-2001  |
L'Angelo, Even if the PBA prez was heated (and I don't blame him the way MPD was treated by the TC), don't you think it was Vic's responsibility as a leader to be professional and appropriate and not freak out like he did? As the boss, would you call Vic's behavior good management style? Not being on speaking terms with the PBA and the police is bad, bad management. | |||
| Reflective Citizen Username: Reflective Post Number: 937 Registered: 3-2003 |
Thanks Officer JG No communication with, and disrespect to, the police force were my two anti Vic hot buttons. Our elected officials set the enforcement tone. Those vic years were characterized by low morale in our force. A sarcastic bravooo to vic. He's great for handing out grants to elite intellectual political causes (on a globalllll level)...he's not great dealing with day to local issues affecting us. His political prism is well ... vastly different! | |||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 13588 Registered: 10-2001  |
Well I have a pretty decent recollection of that meeting - 8/12/03 - and in my mind, there was plenty of disrespect on both sides. The reason why the PBA head got so heated was because he thought that Mr. DeLuca had called some of the officers racists. In fact, Mr. DeLuca had not done that. What he did say, in the course of what I would call a rather charged moment, was that some of the officers had used, in his opinion, racial code words in their interactions with residents prior to the election. It was the PBA head, not Vic, who brought up the subject of taking it outside. Vic absolutely DID NOT say anything about such a change of venue. Anyone interested should get a copy of the minutes and read them. | |||
| Jack Straw Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 5076 Registered: 10-2001 |
Thanks for the info Sbenois. Important we stick with the facts. | |||
| Woodster Citizen Username: Woodster Post Number: 84 Registered: 8-2002 |
Yes, thank you Sbenois, I recalled the PBA prez challenging Vic to take it outside. But I forgot all about the racial comments part. I believe a couple of residents told Vic they were told to “sell your house it ain’t what is use to be.” And “take a look around, this town is going down hill fast.” It’s just a shame that a few bad members of the force pitted the PBA against the town. If I recall correctly it was actually the chief and Mrs. Mead that had them so pissed off. I also recall (at the same meeting I believe) Vic announced they were going to get a new building and one of the PBA members said they didn’t care about the building. It was clear at that point they were just out to get Vic out of office because he wouldn’t give out this big raise. I said it before and I’ll say it again, there is a big difference between the PBA being happy and us (the residents) being safe. I don’t care if the PBA (which the majority of the members live out of town) backs any politician, it shouldn’t have any impact on the race. If this is all Fred and Ian have to show for their three years in office we definitely need Vic back and we need him now. Officer JG, was that you who challenged Vic to take it outside. If not, is that officer still on the force in Maplewood? If so, is he still the PBA prez.? | |||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 8474 Registered: 5-2001 |
S, thanks for the clarification. However, imho this rather nasty incident shows just how divided the Town was during that period of our history. | |||
| ll1 Citizen Username: Ll1 Post Number: 30 Registered: 6-2001 |
and now we're all united behind our profet. | |||
| L'Angelo Misterioso Citizen Username: Misterioso Post Number: 252 Registered: 10-2003 |
Not at all, Bob - it just shows how unpleasant labor/management relations can sometimes get when one side would rather play things out in public than negotiate in good faith. The PBA thought they had the upper hand - we can't do without police services, after all - and bet that an arbitrator, combined with their publicly embarassing the TC, would get them what they were demanding. The arbitrator decided that the Township, and not the police, were in the right. So the PBA decided that they were more likely to get the deal they wanted if only they had a different TC - one which would put political expediency and gamesmanship over doing the right thing for the town. And that's exactly what happened. | |||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 8480 Registered: 5-2001 |
This is very much the classic chicken and egg scenario. Did the police become recalcitrant because they thought the TC and the Administrator were not bargaining in good faith? Or are they a just a bunch of looneys? In the end I come back to the fact that other towns manage to handle municipal worker contracts without the level of rancor we had during Vic’s terms as Mayor. | |||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 6925 Registered: 1-2003  |
kathleen, your recollection of Vic's record impresses me suitably. Thanks for adding information about what went on. However, some of your points don't seem logical to me. You point out how SOMEA endorsed two very young (and probably underqualified) candidates for BOE. So? Are we then to believe that all endorsements from any organization are therefore bogus? Or is there some connection between SOMEA and the PBA that we should know about? You cite Fred's defeat during his first attempt, as if it's the real result, implying (I think) that his later victory is somehow false. Can't they both be real? He lost and then he won. Hypothesizing the reasons he lost and then won isn't necessarily the best way to decide how we should vote this year. My question is, who will do the best job for the township? I still haven't decided. Frankly, I see good things on both Fred and Vic's records, though as a newcomer, I'm not sure how to put them all in perspective. Maybe I'll vote for both of them.  | |||
| tdurkin307 Citizen Username: Tdurkin307 Post Number: 30 Registered: 4-2002 |
True, the PBA sent a proposal to the TC asking for a 24% salary increase over 4 years. That would have been 6% a year, thus catapulting a Maplewood Officer into mediocrity on the law enforcement pay scale of Essex County. Mr. Deluca sent back a counteroffer of 0% over the same time period. That's not negotiating! That's insulting! Tim Durkin |
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