| Author |
Message |
    
Charles Townsend
Citizen
Username: Cm_townsend
Post Number: 3
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 9:11 am: |     |
What is going on in Maplewood with this “click it or ticket” annoyance? The police, on orders from the state, have set up roadblocks throughout the town in order to catch motorists not wearing their seatbelts. What a waste of police resources! This is just an excuse to raise additional funds for the respective coffers of the state and town and has little to do with public safety. I am sure that the police must feel that this is beneath them and that they should be off fighting real crime in Maplewood, not acting as big brother to us all. The Maplewood Police Department is certainly above this blatantly avaricious undertaking. |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 5670
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 9:17 am: | |
It was recently explained to me that in addition to enforcing the use of seat belts, which in my opinion is a good thing, word of these stops being made is also a deterrent against crime because would be criminals planning on traveling into/out of/within town will go elsewhere to commit their crimes rather than run the risk of being pulled over during a routine random traffic stop. |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 3851
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 1:05 pm: | |
...not to mention all the other possible warrant violation arrests for other crimes! Right on Joan... Buckle Up Maplewood. |
TomR
Citizen
Username: Tomr
Post Number: 512
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 2:05 pm: | |
Does anybody know what the driver's responsibility is in New Jersey for an adult passenger who is unbelted?
I.e., can a driver be ticketed for an adult passenger's not being belted?
Just curious.
TomR. |
SO Refugee
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 393
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 2:29 pm: | |
It is acceptable to levy the following punishment on an unbelted adult if you receive a ticket on their behalf - a kick to the curb accompanied by a XL can of whoop-a** |
Barbara
Citizen
Username: Blh
Post Number: 482
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 2:32 pm: | |
These "click it or ticket" stops have been very evident in my drives throughout NJ over the past week. If there are fewer fatalities over the Memorial Day weekend due to this enforcement, then good for them. In the past year my husband and my mother walked away from accidents generally unscathed that totalled their cars -- due in large part to seat belts and air bags.
Tom, I believe I heard that you, as the driver, would be responsible if an adult passenger was unbuckled. I won't move my car until all belts are clicked. |
johnny
Citizen
Username: Johnny
Post Number: 1252
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 2:55 pm: | |
Although seat belts are a very serious safety issue, how about some speed traps? I can't remember the last time I saw someone pulled over by a Maplewood police car. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 1219
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 3:01 pm: | |
TomR and Barbara-
I called the South Orange Police to be sure they told me the driver will get a ticket if the front seat passenger is under the age of 18. If they are older then 18, the passenger will be ticketed.
Barbara, I agree with you. My car stays put until ALL passengers have their seatbelt on. If someone doesn't like my rule, they can get out and walk.
I don't allow kids to sit in the front seat; exept once in a blue moon, with their parent's permission, and only if the child is bigger then me!
I even keep a booster seat in my car for one of my friend's 5 year old. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 8591
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 9:02 am: | |
Johnny, funny you should mention that. As I type this I can see a police cruiser laying in wait at the corner of our street and Ridgewood Road. 
|
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 7137
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 1:27 am: | |
Is anyone besides me disturbed by roadblocks? I believe members of the public deserve the benefit of the doubt. We deserve not to be impeded in order to be doubted. Such impedence strikes me as a presumption of guilt. |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 5689
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 5:27 am: | |
Roadblocks used for seat belt checks and checks for drunk drivers don't bother me. Quite the opposite. I think they help to contribute to our over-all safety and they do save lives. |
TomR
Citizen
Username: Tomr
Post Number: 515
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 1:48 pm: | |
JTA,
Thank you.
TomR |
letters016
Citizen
Username: Letters016
Post Number: 86
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 2:45 pm: | |
Tom,
Yes, they bother me too. I cannot imagine why the police need to set up roadblocks to stop cars in order to check to see if the seatbelts are being used. Aren't these the same cops who sit by the side of the road and check the TINY number on your inspection sticker? If they can see that, I'm quite sure that they can see wether or not a belt is crossing your shoulder. There seems to be no logical reason to have to stop every car to peek inside.
Unless, of course, they are really looking for something else and this is just an excuse.
There are far better things for the cops to be doing than this. Checking parking lots looking for thieves who steal headlights or cars. Cruising up and down streets looking for people who walk up and down to see if anyones garage door is open and there is something to steal. Or, more importantly it seems, looking for the unidentified individual(s) trashing Fred and Vic's political signs. |
SO Refugee
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 409
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 3:48 pm: | |
Thread drift; however, I have seen on several occasions, most noteably this morning as I dropped off my daughter with her Brownie troop for the parade, police officers using cell phones while drive without using a hands free device. I've become particularly attuned to this since receiving a $150 ticket on Long Island for this. If it's a law, shouldn't Mwood's finest (along with every other NJ officer) adhere to it as well? |
Charles Townsend
Citizen
Username: Cm_townsend
Post Number: 5
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 4:32 pm: | |
Everyone knows, including the police, that the only reason for these roadblocks is to collect money from average citizens who forget to put on their seatbelts (in my opinion this shouldn’t be an infraction). There is really very little police revenue in criminals but only in average citizens who break the laws of the road: i.e. speeding, seatbelts, parking, etc…These citizens will, for the most part, pay all their fines, whereas most criminals will not. Therefore, when the state needs money, it can always send out the police to collect some extra revenue. It has everything to do with money and very little to do with public safety. |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 5703
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 4:42 pm: | |
When a person dies as a result of being hit by a car driven by someone who has too much to drink or as the result of being thrown through the windshield of a car during a collision because he/she was riding in a car without a fastened seat belt, what price are you willing to place on his/her life? It seems to me that routine traffic stops are a very inexpensive way of reducing the likelihood that such deaths will occur. |
letters016
Citizen
Username: Letters016
Post Number: 89
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 6:55 pm: | |
Joan,
CT is making a valid point. I don't think anyone is questioning the validity of your message. What they are annoyed about is the manner in which the police are being told to do it.
Undisputed points:
Seatbelts save lives
Drunking driving kills (your point)
The dispute is whether or not it is neccesary to set up roadblocks in the middle of the day to see if someone is wearing a seatbelt or not. This can be seen without stopping anybody.
CT also points out that we, the average citizen, will pay any fine if we get caught versus the garbage that walks up and down your street and mine that has no job and will be happy to go to jail so they get free cable TV. He's right about it coming down to money.
There has been a media blitz lately about "clickit or ticket". If your dumb enough to drive around without a seatbelt on after being warned then you deserve a ticket. But setting up barriers is crossing the line. |
Charles Townsend
Citizen
Username: Cm_townsend
Post Number: 6
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 9:05 pm: | |
Joan,
I don't think that routine traffic stops will markedly reduce the number of driving fatalities. There are obviously rational laws against drunk driving as this act can potentially affect others. If a person is caught in the act, then he should be punished, but I don't think that you need to inconvenience the majority of the populace through random roadblocks, which, as I mentioned, are more about money than safety. How much of your freedom and money are you willing to give up in order to feel safe? Do you want the government to do random house checks to make sure that we are safe in our homes?
And, with regard to a person flying through his window shield, neither the government nor average citizen can prevent that, and we shouldn't really be in the business of policing people against themselves. Not wearing your seatbelt does not affect others whereas drunk driving potentially can, so the two scenarios are not analogous. Of course, you could argue that the health costs for said person affect us all; thus, we should encourage individual safety, but that would open up a Pandora’s Box that no democratically-minded American would like to see.
Charles
|
letters016
Citizen
Username: Letters016
Post Number: 91
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 9:11 pm: | |
did I write "drunking driving"... sheesh... |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 8611
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 8:48 am: | |
It is always nice to hear the libertarian point of view.
Seatbelt laws are like motorcycle helmet laws. Some see them as infringements on personal liberty and others see them as big brother in action. The thing that throws me into the mandatory camp on both these items is that a lot of the treatment for the injuries suffered by unbelted drivers and unhelmeted riders ends up being at the cost of the state and effects all of us. |
sullymw
Citizen
Username: Sullymw
Post Number: 608
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 9:22 am: | |
sometimes I wish we could ticket the police for their traffic violations when there is obviously no 'incident' occurring. they should set a better example. |
C Bataille
Citizen
Username: Nakaille
Post Number: 2018
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 11:02 am: | |
One thing I liked about the checkpoint was that it gave my kid an opportunity to see that these things are taken seriously not just by her parents, but also by the police. We also talked about how when the police find someone without a seatbelt they can also check for arrest warrants for other infractions/crimes so it becomes an easy way of finding folks on the lam.
Cathy |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 7148
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 2:38 pm: | |
Mandatory home searches without warrants would also decrease criminal activity. The fact that it has a good effect isn't justification.
A mandatory road stop seems like the sort of thing the fourth amendment was written to protect us from. Not only do I want my "person" to be secure, I don't want the government impeding my passage through public space.
And for what it's worth, I always wear a seatbelt, always insist that everyone in my car wears one, and I believe everyone should wear one. Just because we should wear one doesn't mean we should endure violations on our rights of movement to enforce the law.
And I actually wouldn't mind if the police stopped us for not wearing our seatbelts. I object to being stopped so that they can check. I object to the guy in front of me being stopped, because it impedes the rest of us. |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 5706
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 4:35 pm: | |
There are a number of public health and safety laws on the books besides those governing seat belts. Do you consider it a violation of your rights to be required to remove standing water from your property during West Nile season or the violation of a restaurant owner's rights if their business is fined or even closed down due to violations of the sanitary code? Should your neighbor be permitted to keep their yard in disrepair to the degree that rodents are breeding there and then going on to your property?
One point to consider is that you could be the one who is injured, sickened or even killed as a result of someone else ignoring such health and safety laws. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 7153
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 4:38 pm: | |
I don't mind those laws at all. They are there for good reasons. I don't like being stopped based on the assumption that I am violating a law. If they have have reason to think I'm violating something, the police can stop me. Otherwise, I want the police to leave me alone. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 7157
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 5:48 pm: | |
In other words, it's not the law, it's the method of enforcement, that I object to. The existence of a law does not mean that all imaginable enforcement methods are justified. I like the seatbelt law. I don't like roadblocks. |
wendy
Supporter
Username: Wendy
Post Number: 1136
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 7:28 pm: | |
A police officer was in Millburn on Essex Avenue doing a seat belt check this afternoon. No road block, he was just standing on the sidewalk looking into cars stopped at the light, including the one I was a passenger in. |
Charles Townsend
Citizen
Username: Cm_townsend
Post Number: 9
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 9:58 pm: | |
Joan,
Your argument is basically that citizens are too irresponsible to care for themselves; therefore, the government must oversee everything, making sure that every law, regulation, and ordinance is constantly enforced. Since individuals cannot care for themselves, then the government must assume the responsibility. The only logical method of accomplishing this would be to assign a government official to each home, checking, as it were, to make sure that the food isn’t rotten, the yard isn’t full of rodents, the standing water in the yard doesn’t have mosquitoes carrying West Nile, the seatbelts are always locked and ready to go, etc…Is this something that you would consider to live in a completely safe society?
Charles
|
SO Refugee
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 424
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 10:41 pm: | |
Once again the discussion reels out of control to the extremes when we are all trying to live somewhere in the middle.
A seat-belt roadblock is not a stepping stone to the Gestapo. It is an annoyance; not the ATF busting down your door to check for unlicensed firearms. Are you wearing your seatbelt? Yes? Then, move along. Don't make this sound like a checkpoint in old East Berlin. |
sullymw
Citizen
Username: Sullymw
Post Number: 610
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 1, 2005 - 8:27 am: | |
I agree with much of what Tom R has said, but every now and then the public needs a little "shot to the ribs" to wake them up and restore some awareness. If that is the motivation, then I don't see much harm in it. I suspect it's more of an awareness program than a revenue enhancer. |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 693
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 1, 2005 - 11:32 am: | |
seatbelt laws themselves are a violation of our personal rights. I put no one at risk other than myself by not wearing a seatbelt. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 8635
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 1, 2005 - 12:16 pm: | |
Charles and Libertarian. The libertarian side of my personality wants to agree with you. However, a large number of people injured in car and motorcycle accidents don't have medical insurance and this results in the state having to pick up the check. |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 5716
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 1, 2005 - 4:47 pm: | |
Charles:
If everyone could be relied upon to behave responsibly towards themselves and others at all times, we wouldn't need laws at all. We could also eliminate the need for police officers, the court and prison systems, health departments, social service agencies, etc.
I don't believe in big government but I do believe there are times when a little regulation is necessary for the good of the entire community. |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 696
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 1, 2005 - 7:33 pm: | |
A seat-belt roadblock is not a stepping stone to the Gestapo. It is an annoyance; not the ATF busting down your door to check for unlicensed firearms. Are you wearing your seatbelt? Yes? Then, move along. Don't make this sound like a checkpoint in old East Berlin.
when things occur incrementally its easy to ignore them until it is too late. |
SO Refugee
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 432
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 1, 2005 - 8:53 pm: | |
I guess you could make that argument if you must find a conspiracy behind everything.
Liberatarian (thread drift alert) - have you ever heard any of Bill Hicks' comedy work? He's been dead over 10 years now, but was a very funny guy and a die-hard Liberatarian. I'm reading a collection of his bits and articles called "Love All the People" that you might enjoy. Check it out. |
Meandtheboys
Citizen
Username: Meandtheboys
Post Number: 1014
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 1, 2005 - 9:39 pm: | |
I am all for the seat-belt roadblocks for one reason. Too many times I have been on the road and seen little kids (I'm talking 2- and 3-year-olds) bouncing around unrestrained in the back of a car and, even worse, sometimes in the front seat too. If the responsible adult in these child's lives doesn't care enough to buckle them in to a car seat, then I thank God there's a chance that the police will.
I passed through one of these road blocks (my first time) just over the Deleware river in Milford PA, while traveling to the Poconos for the holiday weekend. I didn't find it an inconvenience, I wasn't perturbed by it, and I certainly didn't feel like my rights were being infringed upon.
Oh, and SO Refugee, I think that law about the hands free device only exists in NY, no? My husband almost got a ticket for that too, on the LIE, but the cop let him go because he claimed ignorance being he was from NJ. |
SO Refugee
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 433
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 1, 2005 - 9:49 pm: | |
Nope. I believe that as of 7/1/04 you must use a hands free device in NJ.
Governor Signs Law Banning Hand-Held Cell Phones While Driving
Building A Better New Jersey: Making Roads Safer
(RIDGEFIELD)—Governor James E. McGreevey signed legislation today that bans the use of hand-held cell phones while operating a moving vehicle. The new law will continue the Governor’s efforts to “Build a Better New Jersey” by making New Jersey highways safer.
“Cell phones have become inescapable,” said McGreevey. “They are part of our daily lives. This ban will not threaten that. Like any other instrument that could be dangerous, cell phones must be used responsibly. Requiring drivers to keep both hands on the wheel will save lives”
The bill allows the use of wireless telephones equipped for hands-free operation in moving vehicles, provided the placement of those hands-free telephones does not interfere with the operation of federally required equipment on the vehicles, such as air bags.
Drivers may use a hand-held telephone in a moving motor vehicle only if:
(1) They have reason to fear for their lives or safety, or believe that a criminal act may be perpetrated against them or another person requiring the use of the wireless telephone while the car is moving; or
(2) To report a fire, traffic accident, serious road hazard or medical or hazardous materials emergency, or to report a person who is driving in a reckless, careless or otherwise unsafe manner or who appears to be under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
“Enactment of this law will end the confusion many motorists face while driving through our state, never knowing which towns prohibit the use of hand-held cell phones while driving,” said Assemblyman Douglas H. Fisher (D-Cumberland). “We now have a uniform law that will require drivers to minimize distractions while driving, making our roads safer.”
Enforcement of the law by State or local law enforcement officers is to be accomplished only as a secondary action when the driver has been pulled over for a traffic violation or another offense. The penalties for violating the provision may range from $100 to $250. No motor vehicle points or automobile insurance eligibility points would be assessed for a violation of this law.
Last year, a Quinnipiac University poll showed New Jersey’s voters 85 percent of New Jersey’s voters overwhelmingly favor a hand-held cell phone ban. Even those who used cell phones said drivers should keep their hands on the wheel.
|
Meandtheboys
Citizen
Username: Meandtheboys
Post Number: 1015
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 1, 2005 - 10:13 pm: | |
Good to know, thanks. |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 699
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 10:04 pm: | |
Liberatarian (thread drift alert) - have you ever heard any of Bill Hicks' comedy work? He's been dead over 10 years now, but was a very funny guy and a die-hard Liberatarian. I'm reading a collection of his bits and articles called "Love All the People" that you might enjoy. Check it out.
Bill Hicks is my patron saint! i have worshipped at his altar for many many years. |
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