| Author |
Message |
    
kathleen
Citizen
Username: Symbolic
Post Number: 148
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 2:18 pm: |     |
And the letter proves Jeff was right and Marian was lying.
The lawyer writing on behalf of NJCA explained the law to Fred and demanded a retraction.
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kathleen
Citizen
Username: Symbolic
Post Number: 149
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 2:20 pm: | |
Tom,
I believe the endorsements are for real! That wasn't my point. I was trying to point out to Bobk, who has been obsessed with the absence of an endorsement of Vic on the website of NJCA, that his little obsession had nothing to do with the real world. |
johnny
Citizen
Username: Johnny
Post Number: 1263
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 2:21 pm: | |
Wow, nice letter.
Two things.... the letter never denies that NJCA canvassers did what they were accused of, which was start talking about social security and then switch to talking about Vic DeLuca.
The letter only makes an issue with Profeta's statement that said, to the effect, that this tactic was illegal. NJCA is saying that it is legal. It may be legal, but in my opinion it's unethical
Second... did Profeta comply with the letter's demand of a full retraction by June 1? |
johnny
Citizen
Username: Johnny
Post Number: 1264
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 2:25 pm: | |
Kathleen,
Wake up. Vic is on the board of the NJCA. The lawyer represents the interests of the NJCA. Connect the dots.... |
marian
Citizen
Username: Marian
Post Number: 676
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 2:26 pm: | |
Tom, a cease and desist letter is the first step in filing a lawsuit. It represents the threat to sue another party if a certain action is not taken by a certain time period. In this case, a retraction of the remarks Fred made by June 1. (Which, by the way he did not do.)
Kathleen, I highly resent your accusation that I lied. I did not lie. The letter is posted and speaks for itself. Make no mistake--it is a legal threat to sue Fred. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 8667
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 2:28 pm: | |
Nope, there is a post from Mplwdian in another thread indicating that a complaint has been filed with the State Consumer's Affairs folks. 
If not so pathetic this would be funny.  |
kathleen
Citizen
Username: Symbolic
Post Number: 152
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 2:33 pm: | |
So it is Fred that is taking legal action. Not Vic.
Marian,
If you aren't lying, you're an irresponsible fool. There is nothing in that letter other than a demand that Fred stop lying. Why doesn't he? Was our lovely Mayor hoping to bait a lawsuit?
Disgusting.
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marian
Citizen
Username: Marian
Post Number: 678
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 2:41 pm: | |
Uhh...Dave, Jamie--is Kathleen (aka: Harpo, aka. God knows what else) calling me an "irresponsible fool" after erroneously accusing me of lying considered a personal attack??? ('Cause I think it is...) |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 8668
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 2:53 pm: | |
Kathleen:
First I see several letters such as the one from NJCA a month. They are a threat to take legal action. This one is kind of weak, probably because there is no cause for action in Profeta's remarks. The usual wording usually goes something like this, "rest assured if you do not comply with the demands made in this letter my client is prepared to take any and all steps necessary to protect their interests".
I think a lot of people who support NJCA with their funds and in some cases their time would like to know who the organization is endorsing for election and be able to find this on their website. There is a section on endorsements, but it hasn't been updated since last fall. I would offer the same criticism for the organization that has endorsed Profeta and Grodman.
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ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 3832
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 3:13 pm: | |
calling someone a liar and an irresponsible fool is a personal attack in my book. |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 4892
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 3:44 pm: | |
I second that - it's a personal attack. Names she used against Marian (and myself)
- Liar
- Irresponsible Fool
- Dunce (in other politics thread)
Name calling, a campaign tool typical of Vic supporters. |
aquaman
Supporter
Username: Aquaman
Post Number: 288
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 4:12 pm: | |
Don't forget - Dupe
 |
kathleen
Citizen
Username: Symbolic
Post Number: 156
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 5:08 pm: | |
Both Marian and Mem could have and should have noticed that the letter was not from Vic DeLuca or his lawyer and that it contained no threat to sue. Others are certainly entitled to point out Marian was actively spreading obvious falsehoods, either knowingly or unknowingly, and them Mem went along with it.
But hey -- what the heck? When did Fred ever take responsibility for his lies either? In fact, he'll probably blame Marian for this.
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johnny
Citizen
Username: Johnny
Post Number: 1268
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 5:21 pm: | |
Kathleen-
You are splitting hairs. The letter clearly has a threatening tone and implies that further action will be taken if Fred does not retract his statement. If you received such a letter, would you ignore it and assume you were not being threatened with legal action?
Also, Vic helps direct the actions of the NJCA (hence Board of Directors) as the Treasurer and a Director. The lawyer acts on their behalf. Do you honestly think Vic had nothing to do with the letter? |
marian
Citizen
Username: Marian
Post Number: 679
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 5:22 pm: | |
Kathleen--I'll take my chances.
And I repeat: The letter is from Citizen Action's lawyers threatening to sue Fred. Vic is Citizen Action's treasurer and sits on the board of directors.
Vic has clearly shown that there is NO WAY on earth he is capable of working civilly with Fred and Ian on the Township Committee.
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 7269
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 5:27 pm: | |
You must at least admit you are extrapolating. The fact that a suit follows "cease and desist" letters does not mean that a suit would follow this one. You are putting words in people's mouths. When people do that to me, I tell them to, um, cease and desist.
It's really a form of strawman argument, the way I see it. By saying Vic is threatening to sue, you implicitly point out that there is no basis to sue. And it's true that there probably isn't. But oh, aren't you so strong to knock down that strawman! Yeah, there's little basis, but there's no suit, either. There's a lot of air between those strands of straw. |
kathleen
Citizen
Username: Symbolic
Post Number: 167
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 5:53 pm: | |
Johnny,
There is nothing wrong and everything right with the letter. I am glad liberal organizations are calling people like Fred on their crap. I would hope Vic was shown the letter before it was sent. He sits on the board and is the candidate they endorsed.
Marian, I'm not going to repeat myself.
Others:
This was posted in another thread from sk8mom, and it worth reposting here. I hope she doesn't mind my doing so:
sk8mom
Citizen
Username: Sk8mom
Post Number: 194
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 3:15 pm:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even assuming a cease and desist letter is a prerequisite to, or a helpful predicate for, the filing of a lawsuit, does it follow that all, or most, or many, such letters constitute threats to sue? Personally, I don't believe so.
I read the letter. This is legal tradecraft. I would guess that Fred, a lawyer himself, did not think it was harsh, or threatening. As a politician, he may have loved it.
NJCA (seemed like a college kid) came to my door. We discussed Social Security. He asked us to sign the petition. He asked who we were voting for in the TC primary. I told him we were undecided. I asked him if they were backing a candidate. He said they endorsed DeLuca. That was the end of it.
Perhaps if I had tried to engage him in a discussion of the issues or candidates, he would have engaged me back and sang Vic's praises, and perhaps that could have been viewed as "campaigning." |
Danger
Citizen
Username: Danger
Post Number: 8
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 7:09 pm: | |
I wish there were more groups like this
Single mom tells how program made happy homeowner of skeptic renter"
Bernice Christian never dreamed the American dream of owning her own home until last year. Like many single women with children living on a limited income, the Newark woman knew only apartment living.
So last year, when her daughter brought her a flier about a seminar on home ownership, Christian told the child she was looking for a new apartment, not a house.
Then she went to the seminar offered by New Jersey Citizen Action and it changed her mind.
"I didn't even think I could get a house because of the bankruptcy," said Christian, who filed for bankruptcy seven years ago. "I couldn't get a Visa or Mastercard. How could I get a house?"
The seminar last May showed her how.
She went through credit counseling and was guided through the mortgage process. Now, instead of paying $650 a month rent for a five-room apartment on South 16th Street, she pays a $721 monthly mortgage for an 11-room house.......
Christian, who shares her home with her son, daughter and three grandchildren, will share her story about home ownership tomorrow with other women. Phyllis Salowe-Kaye, executive director of New Jersey Citizen Action, said women like Christian were the best motivators for other women. Households headed by single women earning low and moderate incomes are the last people to get information on home ownership, Salowe-Kaye said.
"Many feel they could never buy a home. They feel they are tenants for life."
After the seminar, the women go through a credit counseling program.......
The service is free, except for a $10 fee for a credit report, Salowe-Kaye said.
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johnny
Citizen
Username: Johnny
Post Number: 1271
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 8:18 pm: | |
Kathleen-
So you admit the letter was sent on Vic's behalf? |
kathleen
Citizen
Username: Symbolic
Post Number: 169
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 3, 2005 - 8:52 pm: | |
Johnny,
The letter plainly was sent on behalf of NJCA, a very good organization smeared by Fred. Who's next? The American Cancer Society? |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 3835
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 11:15 am: | |
A very good organization. But, unfortunately, the treasurer of the organization seems to have put this group's reputation into jeapardy. |
Camnol
Citizen
Username: Camnol
Post Number: 22
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 2:41 pm: | |
Citizen Action came to my door about social security. The young man asked me to sign the petition. I signed it and then he asked for money. I wasn't comfortable giving money to an organization I knew nothing about, so I said I was sorry, but I couldn't. The kid then got mad at me and said that, by law, my signature was no good without a donation. Something about the law required that everyone who signed had to give a donation. I started to cross out my signature and then he got mad again, because he said it made his board look bad. It was all very odd, I have to say.
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ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 3836
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 6:38 pm: | |
If it were just some canvassers that were not behaving properly, don't you think that Vic could say "Oh my G-d, that sounds terrible. I will look into that right away." No. He sends in the lawyers. |
wharfrat
Citizen
Username: Wharfrat
Post Number: 1888
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 6:54 pm: | |
FFOF, et al-
When NJCA canvassed last fall, in anticipation of the Presidential elections nobody gave a crap.
Now that your guys have no platform to run on, suddenly NJCA is important!
Jeez....
Get a life... |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 3837
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 10:42 pm: | |
well, wharf, what was the pitch, for g sake. Were they asking for cash? This is not just about "I don't like canvassers", in case you hadn't noticed. Geez, give a "crap". Cuz if you don't give a "crap", you look guilty.
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Celia Kent
Citizen
Username: Cel
Post Number: 111
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 10:50 pm: | |
Ffof--Here's what happened to me:
A young man came to my house about a month ago and started talking to be about how he was collecting signatures and cash to save Social Security. He showed me some literature about his group, which I had vaguely recalled hearing about in the past. It all seemed on the up and up until he took my $10 and then started asking me if I knew there was a Democratic primary coming up in June and could he count on my support for Vic DeLuca.
He then proceeded to take out a DeLuca campaign flyer and tried to hand it to me. When I told him that I thought he was collecting money and support to save Social Security, not campaign for a local politicial who I don't support, he proceeded to say something like: "Hey, we can't save Social Security without supporting candidates who are on our side."
After reading these threads, I will be calling Citizen Action first thing on Monday morning and demanding my money back. I will post an update on these boards. |
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