| Author | Message | ||
     Lucifer Citizen Username: Lucifer Post Number: 31 Registered: 5-2005 |
Upon my first quick review of the answers candidates gave I noticed something very strange: Fred Profeta started his answer to many of the questions by saying something like, "Ian's answer was perfect, but let me add." I thought these were supposed to be individual responses? Did Profeta and Grodman share notes? This makes no sense. | ||
| wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 1112 Registered: 5-2001 |
I didn't see anything in the rules which would disallow sharing of notes or responses. This is all the rules said about that: "All candidates must respond as individuals. Joint responses will not be accepted as voters are entitled to understand the views of each candidate." Referring to someone else's post and then adding is still an individual response. In fact it's a great strategy as well since extra attention will be given to the referent's answers, in this case Ian's. | ||
| Joan Supporter Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 5698 Registered: 5-2001 |
Fred did this for several but not all of his responses to the debate questions. He also attempted to contrast his position on the issues with Vic's in several places. I don't see that either approach detracted for the rule that he file an independent rather than single-ticket response covering his and Ian's joint position. If anything, Ian and Fred have shown some clear differences on the issues both in the MOL and Hiton debates. | ||
| joeltfk Citizen Username: Joeltfk Post Number: 198 Registered: 8-2001  |
I think we all know why Fred yielded to Ian on so many of "Ian's" answers. Just another strategic decision from the Profeta camp. But there's nothing wrong with that. In competitive debating terms, this back-and-forth had a lot of "clash," which made it a good read. Although for someone so concerned with democratic unity, Fred spent a lot of time talking about the past DeLuca/Ryan vs. Pettis/Leventhal, accusations, recriminations, "picking off" officials, doomsday scenarios, etc. But every debate has it's "huh?" moment and this is my favorite: PROFETA: "A little known fact is that the [education] gap was narrowing down to nothing in the early 1980’s, when, for unknown reasons, it began to widen dramatically. Professor Ron Ferguson of Harvard could find no correlation with any social or cultural factor other than the advent of rap music. What role did this play? I am no educational expert, but the coincidence is intriguing." So Fred thinks our educational gap is, to good degree, the effect of rap music. So much for progressive thinking. Or, for that matter, thinking, period. | ||
| trapper Citizen Username: Trapper Post Number: 209 Registered: 8-2002 |
I believe it was Ron Ferguson, Harvard Professor who postulated that, Joeltfk. By the way, Joeltfk, what effect has rap music had on the youth of Maplewood, or the USA for that matter since the early 1980's? | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 1033 Registered: 7-2004  |
Damn lousy kids and their vile rap music. I think Fred just lost my vote on that answer alone. (It wasn't his theory, but he still finds it "intriguing"). It's the same lack of understanding that made the Beatles and Elvis so threatening back when. Like everything else, rap has its positive and negative aspects. | ||
| Joel Janney Citizen Username: Joel_janney Post Number: 35 Registered: 6-2004 |
You can always find a reason not to vote for someone. I expect Vic DeLuca has opinions you would object to on matters equally irrelevant to how well he would serve Maplewood as what he thinks of rap music. Focus on what is relevant. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 8620 Registered: 5-2001 |
And remember that the curriculum we are using in our elementary schools is based on Dr. Fergueson's ideas and he was a consultant. | ||
| joeltfk Citizen Username: Joeltfk Post Number: 200 Registered: 8-2001 |
A guy that goes OUT OF HIS WAY during a debate to make a point that rap music plays a role in our school education gap...I think that gives insight to a way of thinking that is seriously inappropriate for a town representative. And when he says it's intriguing, that's close enough to saying "it's reasonable". Otherwise he wouldn't have brought it up at all. Sure Vic may have a personal belief that you don't agree with but I don't think he has said anything so head-scratching and wouldn't say something half as ignorant and ridiculous. Ron may have postulated it, but why did Fred go out of his way to bring it up? With all of the things he yielded to Ian, he really wanted to speak up about the vile effects of rap music? You can vote or not vote on this issue but it was a pretty dumb thing to say, prominent but inconclusive Harvard studies notwithstanding. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 7147 Registered: 1-2003  |
It does seem like a culturally bigoted remark. But how much is it the TC's job to close the achievement gap? I believe they do have a role, but it's mostly indirect, by affecting living conditions. Remember, Fred is not running for BOE. None of this is a defense for a poorly considered remark. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 8622 Registered: 5-2001 |
Tom, Ron Fergueson is an African American and a professor at Harvard. I see Robert's point is interesting. Heck Elvis was the end of the world and so were the Beatles according to my parent's generation. However, I think Dr. Fergueson's views probably include the whole "gansta" mentality and I can't think of another reason for the quick reversal of the achievement gap either. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 7149 Registered: 1-2003 |
There's an age-old debate: does life imitate art, or does art imitate life? It's as insoluble as the chicken and egg question. I suppose at the core, you or Fred may be saying that the attitude towards the value of education has worsened among African Americans. If that's what he is saying, he should say so. Same for you. Actually, I think it's true for some, but I don't feel it's fair to generalize it. There are, after all, lots of black people. | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 1034 Registered: 7-2004 |
There are many prominent African-American voices (Stanley Crouch comes immediately to mind) who decry the gangsta culture, specifically the misogyny and glorification of violence. It's entirely unfair to say that that is what rap is all about. It ignores the constructive contributions the art form has made. I just think it was curious for Fred to reference a controversal unsubstantiated theory in a Cliff's Notes version of his campaign platform. It reeks of imprecise thinking, and pandering to one contingency. | ||
| joeltfk Citizen Username: Joeltfk Post Number: 201 Registered: 8-2001 |
"By the way, Joeltfk, what effect has rap music had on the youth of Maplewood, or the USA for that matter since the early 1980's?" I don't really know, but I wouldn't make gbeneralizations like Fred did. At best, it was a scary oversimplification of Ferguson's original work. I know I'm the guy who always seems to jump on the tangential things, but some moments do give you deeper insight into a candidate's perspective and thinking, or lack thereof. | ||
| Joel Janney Citizen Username: Joel_janney Post Number: 36 Registered: 6-2004 |
Maybe it was "curious" and maybe it "reeks of imprecise thinking" as you say. If he was suggesting that rap is all about the glorification of violence, then I agree with you that it's entirely unfair. However, the question at the voting booth is will Maplewood's interests be better served by having Vic take the place of Fred or Ian on the TC - that's it. Your earlier post states that "Fred lost my vote on that answer alone". If you were 50.01 for Fred and 49.99 for Vic just yesterday, fine. Otherwise I would ask you again to consider who will be better for the town, and what it means to be better for the town. | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 128 Registered: 3-2005 |
One of very large considerations when deciding "what it means to be better for the town" is how candidates talk about racial matters, especially if they stoop to doing it for political positioning. As Tom said, Fred isn't running for BOE. And like Robert Livingston, I don't think Fred's remark was accidental. Earlier this year, Fred went needlessly out of his way to pander to people who keep up a drumbeat of accusations about black students attending the public schools as "illegal" students. He allowed a cartload of unsubtantiated research and anecdotes to be introduced at a "special report" at Town Hall that blamed the achievement gap on "illegal" black students. Even other members of the TC found it so irritating and unhelpful they asked him what the point of the theatrics was, and members of the school board took the mike to say it was irresponsible. Last time Fred had an "intriguing" theory about the achievement gap there was also an election going on and the Republican candidate was making "illegal" students his major theme. Fred appeared to be wanting to help out that candidate by giving official blessing to the bogus claim we had a hordes of illegal students. The upshot? An article in the Star-Legder that implied Maplewood's schools were flooded with illegal students who raised taxes and depressed school scores. Not good for Maplewood's image or property values -- and totally untrue. One of the best things that ever happened to Maplewood real estate prices was earning a national reputation for having openly liberal, progressive politics at a time the rest of the country was trying to reconstruct 1954. A lot of Republicans in town really hated that, but I still believe that kind of political profile is better for the town, and it really bugs me to see how cheaply Fred holds it, and how willing he is to shred it whenever he thinks he might be able to wring six more votes out of doing so. | ||
| breal Citizen Username: Breal Post Number: 517 Registered: 6-2002 |
FYI, some educators peg the widening of the achievement gap to the widespread adoption of whole language practices (to the exclusion of direct, explicit instruction in phonemic awareness blah blah blah). I don't really buy this, bec. whole language fails a type of mind, not a race. Still, it does give one pause. | ||
| Reflective Citizen Username: Reflective Post Number: 950 Registered: 3-2003 |
You know, for many years Fred played a vital role in the formation and leadership of the Racial Balancing Task Force, now known as the Community Coalition on Race. Hours, weeks, and months adding up to a few years of focussed effort to racially balance M-SO. His bona fides are sound. I don't agree with all of Fred's views, but, unlike many of his distractors on this board, Fred has put his time in. Oh yeah, complainers, put Bill Cosby squarely in Fred's corner on the rap issue. Rap Music- the lowest common denominator in our society! | ||
| Charles Townsend Citizen Username: Cm_townsend Post Number: 8 Registered: 2-2005 |
Kathleen, What would you say to the anecdotal evidence, proffered by reputable teachers in our public schools, that there are numerous illegal students coming from Irvington and Newark? Would you even consider their claims as valid or would you cavalierly cast them off as prevaricating Republicans who have infiltrated the school system in order to promote their nefarious agenda? Charles | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 7164 Registered: 1-2003 |
There have been as many as 90-something illegal students in a year. Definitely something to deal with but nothing to panic about, either. There are very inflated claims, because spreading fear and anger around is such a comfortably familiar activity for some. |
